Boys and Girls and Etiquette

[Jersey Shortie]

With all the gender wars on LS, I am curious what men and women think about the following article I came across today. I thought it was quite interesting.

 

Feb. 21) – In addition to the three R's, boys at one Arizona public high school have spent the past year learning to open doors for girls, pull out chairs for their female classmates and stand when a girl enters a room.

 

Incorporating etiquette lessons into the classroom was the brainchild of Cord Ivanyi, a Latin teacher at Gilbert Classical Academy, a public college prep school 30 miles east of Phoenix.

 

"I teach old-fashioned subjects," Ivanyi told AOL News, "so I don't think I'm doing anyone a disservice by promoting old-fashioned traditions."

 

A teacher for 14 years, Ivanyi said he was inspired to start demonstrating what he considers proper etiquette after witnessing the coarse behavior that some of the boys in his classes displayed toward the girls.

 

"Boys treat girls pretty roughly," he said. "And there was so much disruption, so I decided to do something about it."

 

The informal lessons began with Ivanyi standing up one day after a girl in the class had left the room to go to the bathroom. As she returned, Ivanyi held open the door for her.

 

"She had this funny look on her face," Ivanyi recalled. "And the other kids giggled a little."

 

Soon, however, Ivanyi was schooling the 10th-grade boys on how to seat their female counterparts at their desks, by pulling out their chair and sliding it underneath them as they sat. As a show of respect, the boys were encouraged to stand any time a girl entered the room.

 

Behavior that was once utterly foreign has become routine. "Ninety-eight percent of the boys stand now when a girl enters the room, and the girls love it," Ivanyi said.

 

As a result of the emphasis on politeness, the overall mood in the classroom has changed markedly.

 

"There's a different tenor in the class, a gravity attached to the girls. They've been more feminized in the boys' eyes," Ivanyi said. "These girls are reading Jane Austen novels in class. For them, chivalry hasn't gone out of style."

 

Melissa Leonard, an etiquette instructor in New York for the past 13 years, applauds Ivanyi's efforts. "I think it's great if it's practical etiquette instead of the white-glove, snobby kind."

 

Leonard argues that learning proper manners helps kids navigate a variety of social situations. Sadly, too few have an understanding of the basics.

 

"There are some fundamental rules that are important for kids to learn, like looking someone in the eye when talking to them," Leonard said. "And there can be a role for the school to play, especially if etiquette isn't being taught at home."

 

But is teaching gender-specific etiquette perpetuating what some consider sexist traditions?

 

Gilbert Classical Principal Brian Rosta stresses that the emphasis Ivanyi places on social graces is not an official part of the school's curriculum.

 

Rosta has no plans to expand the politeness training, but he is a firm believer that schools can play a vital role in teaching manners.

 

"We often use the Latin phrase in loco parentis, 'in place of parents,' and sometimes we find that we need to fill the gaps that parents miss," Rosta said. "If there are any life skills our teachers can help with, I encourage that."

 

What's more, the parents of the students in Ivanyi's class don't seem to mind, either.

 

"The only negative thing I've heard are parents calling to make sure that their daughters say 'thank you' to the boys," Rosta said.

[Els]

Eh, I honestly find standing when a girl enters is overdoing it grossly.

 

I just hope that he isn't forcing the kids in any way (e,g. pull that chair out for her or I'll tell your parents you aren't obeying me), else that'd just cause the kids to do the exact opposite as soon as they're out of his class.

[LucreziaBorgia]

It would be nice if etiquette like this were still a matter of course, and not a course having to be taught in schools. I'm not sure about the 'standing' thing, but I suppose that is only because I can't recall that even as a youngster. It went out of vogue so long ago. But politeness? Etiquette? Manners? Yes, I do remember those from when society was still more or less polite and chivalric, before women stopped needing men like fish stopped needing bicycles.

[Lights]

That stuff is quite disgusting and sexist.

 

It's pretty curious that the article mentioned only previous "coarseness" on the part of the boys towards the girls. Was there somehow absolutely none of the reverse, or were such things conveniently ignored?

 

Interestingly, one could also ask: Why no focus on having girls perform "old-fashioned traditions" for boys as well?

Edited February 22, 2010 by Lights

[Woggle]

I am all for it if it goes both ways and the girls are taught to appreciate it. Honestly I wish society in general would start promoting this stuff and I don't mean in a sexist or old fashioned way but in promoting more respect across the board. I think it would result in less gender wars. I have been fighting the gender war damn near my entire life and I feel like a battle hardened veteran who is just exhausted.

[threebyfate]

The standing up thing is a bit much for me too. I can also live without the pulling out of chairs. But I absolutely adore the door opening thing, as long as it's for both genders. As well, saying please and thank you, using greetings and goodbyes, all the normal forms of respect, would be fantastic!

 

There should be a mandatory etiquette class for both genders, which includes table manners, etc.

[Jersey Shortie]

I am all for it if it goes both ways and the girls are taught to appreciate it. Honestly I wish society in general would start promoting this stuff and I don't mean in a sexist or old fashioned way but in promoting more respect across the board. I think it would result in less gender wars.

 

I agree. I don't even think the stuff being taught is sexist. And it does go both ways.

[mem11363]

I remember once - early date with my wife I opened the car door for her - my wife is kind of a blunt person - she is wonderful - just blunt.

 

So she snapped at me "I don't need you opening car doors for me" and I just said "don't ever snap at me for being polite - if you don't want something just say so and I won't do it"

 

And she apologized and I never opened a car door for her again. Building doors she is ok with LOL.

 

Just bring this up because every woman is different and I personally think every woman should get this treatment unless she specifically asks you not to do it or if she is blatantly abusing it.

 

 

 

With all the gender wars on LS, I am curious what men and women think about the following article I came across today. I thought it was quite interesting.

[dazzle22]

I think in general there has been a terrible erosion of overall civility, manners, and a deplorable "dumbing down" of the English language in this country.

 

I don't adhere to perfect grammar in colloquial settings, but when I see major errors on national TV programs, that is just pathetic. Everyone is "F this, F that, what the F..." People act horribly in restaurants, etc, and talk so loudly that their conversation intrudes on others at surrounding tables. Standing is a bit much, but the idea behind it is to give another person courtesy.

 

I always graciously thank a man who holds a door for me. It is not about being CAPABLE of opening a door, it is that a man has noted me and wants to be nice and polite to me.

 

I think both sexes in relationships generally are guilty of similar things, it is just that we are all one sex or another, so when something agregious happens to us, we personalize it as a MAN did that, or a WOMAN did that. Just like culture issues. The "us" vs "them" thing...

[OWoman]

I would be OK with it only if the girls were also taught to stand when the boys entered or left the room, and helped seat the boys too (they'd have to take it in turns, I guess). Anything else just signals "different rules for boys and girls", which is the thin end of the wedge IMO. There's nothing wrong with politeness and respect, but it should but BOTH ways.