My boyfriend always talks about his soon-to-be ex

[michelleco]

Hi everyone - new to the forum so forgive me if this isn't the right place for the question.

I've been dating my boyfriend since October last year, after 6 weeks of platonic friendship. He was newly separated from his wife (of 15 years) at the time; she had left him for another man, and they are now mid-divorce. They have 2 adorable kids together, and, given the situation, he has handled things better than I would. He's a much better person than I am, frankly. He forgives her and is kind and patient with her and he (usually) speaks fondly of her. All of which should be good things.

Even as I type this, I realize I sound terrible and immature, but it's really starting to bug me how often he brings her up in conversation, and how the majority of his stories and points of reference begin with "we" as in, he and his soon-to-be-ex. For example, I'll be talking about how I'm looking for a new couch, and he'll say, "Yeah, when we lived in California, we bought this custom piece at IKEA and it cost us a fortune..." etc. It's like that all the time. "We." The other day we were talking about our teeth and I mentioned that I've been lucky and have only ever had one cavity, and he immediately references his soon-to-be-ex and how she also had great teeth. Sigh.

 

I know he loves me, I don't doubt that, and I don't honestly believe the two of them will reconcile. It's just that every time we start to have a conversation and he starts in with "we" or "our" or "when we used to..." I immediately close down. I wish he had some stories that didn't always include her. I don't feel like I can say anything to him - I know they have a long history together and not being with her is new for him, but it's such a buzzkill, for lack of better word. I'm starting to shut down whenever he brings her up. If we're on the phone and he starts talking about his past with her, I sit here and roll my eyes. Sigh.

 

Why do I care, and how can I get over it? He's a fantastic boyfriend otherwise and I love him v much.

 

Thanks for any insight.

[Gunny376]

Imagine this?

 

I'm standing beside the train tracks?

 

I'm blowing whistles!

 

I'm waving red flags!

 

I'm shooting off hand guns and rifles to get your attention!

 

I'm shooting off flares!

 

I'm shouting ~ "Get tha' **** off of the tracks! There's a train coming!

 

He may be a 'GREAT" boyfriend?

 

But he's still in "love" with his X-Wife!

 

You deserve better! You deserve more!

 

Now! Get your Happy @zz out there getting busy doing so!

[Ronni_W]

It's possible that he's not even aware that he's doing it.

 

Have you tried something gentle like, "Are you aware how often your mind refers to your soon-to-be-ex-wife? Do you think we've jumped the gun? Maybe you need to do some more recovery work...join a divorce support group...some individual therapy?"

 

Since you are confident in your relationship, such a conversation ought not threaten it, and can bring you closer by sharing your understanding and support.

[ann09]

when you're with someone for that amount of time, you build a life with them - it's hard to stop referring to "I" instead of "we". "They" did so many things together - houses, kids, etc. It's probably more of a habit than anything. I can relate to this.

[michelleco]

Thanks for the insight.

I don't think this is a case of "he's still in love with the ex" - he makes it very clear that he is not, otherwise. He also does see an individual counselor (has been going since she left) and I think is very introspective and aware of his feelings. I've asked him before if he thinks he's just not ready for a relationship quite yet (and that I'd totally understand) and whether he needs some time on his own to adjust, and he tells me he feels ready for our relationship and that he wants very much to be with me. It's not as though he's ooh'ing and aah'ing over 'the good ole days' - it's more just in referencing his past, it's always 'we' and not 'I.'

(And for the record, it's condescending to suggest I'm not noticing reg flags. I'm not an idiot.)

 

I do think it's more habit than anything, and I can understand that. I keep hoping over time it will wane.

Thanks, everyone.

[D-Lish]

After 15 years, it's probably the case that he has little else to reference besides the things he did as a "we".

 

I think you have to bring up your discomfort regarding this with him.

It is possible that he doesn't realize he is doing it- or maybe because you haven't said anything he doesn't realize how much it bothers you.

 

You have to address it with him. It's hard to move forward with someone that is referencing his past relationship as much as your guy does.

 

When I bring up something from my past with a new guy, I always omit the exH, exbf part of it - but that just seems like common sense to me. One thing I have realized is that what I deem to be common sense isn't a universal notion.

 

I think if you tell him how this is affecting you he should understand. He can't change if he isn't aware.

[carhill]

It's possible that he's not even aware that he's doing it.

 

Very possible. Depends on how he feels. An ex (or stbx) is a point of reference in one's life, like any other family member, except the familial relationship is disconnected. Most of us form good memories with our ex'es and many positive experiences took place with them. Personally, I'd rather hear a lady talk about her ex(es) in a positive manner rather than only refer to them in a negative way. The way a woman (or man) talks about their ex tells me a lot about who they ( the person themselves) are.

 

OP, this is a phase; divorce is a phase of letting go, legally and emotionally. Each of us processes it in our own way. IMO, if he is an otherwise good man to you, facilitate his journey from his past to his future with you in a positive way. Then, he will make a lifetime of wonderful memories with you

[phineas]

Does he reminise about something then finish it off with "and then the POS left me" ? LOL!

 

I stayed away from dateing just because every time a woman asked me about my wife or divorce or marriage I had to exert great self control not to start ranting about how much of a POS she is.

 

These days the only time I talk about her is on LS or when someone asks me questions.

I don't get angry or anything now though.

I'm over my STBXW.

He's probably over her too.

 

But he's deffinetly not ready to date.

He needs more time to himself.

[floridapad]

After 15 years, it's probably the case that he has little else to reference besides the things he did as a "we".

 

I think you have to bring up your discomfort regarding this with him.

It is possible that he doesn't realize he is doing it- or maybe because you haven't said anything he doesn't realize how much it bothers you.

 

You have to address it with him. It's hard to move forward with someone that is referencing his past relationship as much as your guy does.

 

When I bring up something from my past with a new guy, I always omit the exH, exbf part of it - but that just seems like common sense to me. One thing I have realized is that what I deem to be common sense isn't a universal notion.

 

I think if you tell him how this is affecting you he should understand. He can't change if he isn't aware.

 

Agree with this 100% but tread lightly on this. He is still processing the demise of a 15 year relationship and if you are too pushy about the We I thing it will push him away. Let him know it hurts you but don't bring it up again. He will need to catch this himself. If you two continue to make new memories the "We" will stand for you and him. Always tough to date a seperated person. Very risky. It takes a while to process the loss.

[Phateless]

Went through this exact situation when I first got together with my gf. I had to tell her flat-out to stop mentioning him all the time because it was kind of a bummer.

 

Just tell him flat-out that he talks about his wife ALL THE TIME and it's turning you off.

 

Seriously, how hard is it to tell the story and leave her out of it?

[Ronni_W]

I do think it's more habit than anything, and I can understand that. I keep hoping over time it will wane.

It definitely will. But it sounds like he's only been separated around or less than a year...the situation just needs more time and patience. He needs more "non-marital" experience to be able to relate to and about...otherwise he has nothing to talk about, really, as far as his mundane, day-to-day, personal history.

 

I've been divorced 10+ years. Current-day, if there was a conversation about, let's say, vacationing in Mexico -- my experience of that does also include my ex-husband. I would just feel 'weird' not mentioning him -- as if I was hiding something and trying to rewrite my history.

 

In your shoes, I'd still try to make him aware of it, though -- sometimes all we need is a gentle nudge to help us start making changes to mental habits and patterns.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Hi everyone - new to the forum so forgive me if this isn't the right place for the question.

I've been dating my boyfriend since October last year, after 6 weeks of platonic friendship. He was newly separated from his wife (of 15 years) at the time; she had left him for another man, and they are now mid-divorce. They have 2 adorable kids together, and, given the situation, he has handled things better than I would. He's a much better person than I am, frankly. He forgives her and is kind and patient with her and he (usually) speaks fondly of her. All of which should be good things.

Even as I type this, I realize I sound terrible and immature, but it's really starting to bug me how often he brings her up in conversation, and how the majority of his stories and points of reference begin with "we" as in, he and his soon-to-be-ex. For example, I'll be talking about how I'm looking for a new couch, and he'll say, "Yeah, when we lived in California, we bought this custom piece at IKEA and it cost us a fortune..." etc. It's like that all the time. "We." The other day we were talking about our teeth and I mentioned that I've been lucky and have only ever had one cavity, and he immediately references his soon-to-be-ex and how she also had great teeth. Sigh.

 

I know he loves me, I don't doubt that, and I don't honestly believe the two of them will reconcile. It's just that every time we start to have a conversation and he starts in with "we" or "our" or "when we used to..." I immediately close down. I wish he had some stories that didn't always include her. I don't feel like I can say anything to him - I know they have a long history together and not being with her is new for him, but it's such a buzzkill, for lack of better word. I'm starting to shut down whenever he brings her up. If we're on the phone and he starts talking about his past with her, I sit here and roll my eyes. Sigh.

 

Why do I care, and how can I get over it? He's a fantastic boyfriend otherwise and I love him v much.

 

Thanks for any insight.

 

It is good you tell him to stop talking about her. it is killing you guys current relationship! plain and simple. And the next time he mentions her you should walk. It sounds like he isnt over her!!!

 

Why are you dealing with his baggage. God females do this too, it's frustrating!

[carhill]

They have 2 adorable kids together, and, given the situation, he has handled things better than I would.

 

A factor to bear in mind, IMO, as he and his ex will have consistent and hopefully amicable contact for years to come, decades even, with grandchildren. If he's a good man, he's setting a style of communication to facilitate that transition from married parents to divorced parents who co-parent in a loving manner, but without the romantic love for each other anymore.

[norajane]

That's what happens when you date separated people...it comes with the territory. Separated people like to get back to dating quickly, but they are usually not the least bit emotionally ready to do so because they have yet to process the ending of their marriage.

 

I'd caution you on being 1) a rebound, and 2) his crutch to get through his divorce. Talk to him about how often he mentions his wife, and if he is unable to change that behavior, you probably need to accept that he's not good dating material at the moment and keep yourself from getting too attached.

[carhill]

OP, were you 'friends' while he was married? You said 'platonic friends for six weeks before dating'. What was his marital status at that time? If he's been involved with you essentially since he found out his wife was unfaithful, I'll share the other's cautions. I've been separated (living separately) for about a year and just recently started dating.

[michelleco]

I really appreciate the comments here, thank you. They help with perspective, even if I disagree on some points (namely, the question of 'why are you dealing with his baggage?' -- the answer is, because I've experienced a number of bad relationships over the years and I know a good man when I see one - he is truly a gem. And, I have my own baggage, too - not one of us is without it, at least as we age - I'm in my mid-thirties.).

 

I totally understand that his only real frames of reference are of his marriage. But I also think it would be just as easy to say "I bought a couch" rather than "we bought a couch."

 

It seems like sage advice to mention it to him and let him know how I feel about it, and then leave it alone. I have no intention of harping on it forever or being rude about it - he's a good man and was committed to his marriage and his family, and I understand that this is a major life adjustment.

 

Sometimes it's really hard dating a separated person - it's something I told myself I would NEVER do. I do sometimes wonder if I'm doing myself a disservice, or even doing HIM a disservice by being such a distraction during a difficult phase of life, but we've talked frankly about my concerns of being a 'rebound' or a crutch...I don't see that being the case here. He's introduced me to his family, closest friends, and has integrated me into his life pretty significantly (except when it comes to his kids, which we both agreed we wouldn't do until his divorce is final).

 

Anyway, thanks for the wisdom. Please keep it coming if you still have comments. It's nice to hear that I'm not entirely alone...

[michelleco]

Also, Carhill, to answer your question --

His wife left him in June of 09. He and I started talking in August and began dating in October. So... yes, it was VERY soon after she left, and I knew at the time he wasn't ready to date anyone or have a relationship, which is why we kept it platonic in the beginning. Over that 6 weeks though, feelings changed for each other and we both cautiously took a step into dating.

 

For sure, I need to remain cautious...it certainly isn't ideal. My worry is that if I ask to take a step back from the relationship and go back to just being friends until more time has passed, that we won't be able to naturally regain what we've built. It's tricky.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Irreguardless, you should make him be respectful of you when your in his presense. That is all, you should ask for. If he's alone and reminiscing fine, but damn how much you gotta put up with. No one wants to be with someone who is constantly talking about their ex!!!!

[carhill]

OP, presuming you're divorced, how would you say you would talk about experiences in your life which including your ex? How do you feel when you talk about those years? I can clearly see how I talk about experiences in a matter of fact way e.g. 'We went to Australia and met some great people' but don't focus on my stbx, rather on how I felt about the total experience. If I heard similar stories from you, I'd be thinking that you have the capacity to enjoy life and value your life experiences, regardless of whether they were with an ex or not. I heard similar stories from my stbx about her 'prior' life with her two exH's and saw them as a recitation of history, for better or worse. They were experiences.

 

One positive method is to validate the experiences he shares and offer up some of your own, watching his reaction. A healthy relationship includes balance and that point will be unique to the two of you. Sometimes, each partner needs to be reminded of that balance point. Hope it works out for you

[Ronni_W]

Sometimes it's really hard dating a separated person

It is, yes. And it takes a huge 'leap of faith' on the part of the person in your position.

 

In my case, I was the one just out my marriage. I am forever grateful to my partner for taking the chance on me, and for his patience, understanding, love and support. Certainly it was not a 'disservice' to me but then again, in the early days, he never made any requests or complaints (and I did and said a lot of wacky things about and for my ex.)

 

In truth, I thought it was just a rebound for me; I went into it with that mindset but...after 10 years...kinda got me thinking I was wrong about that

 

Which is to say, if HE is appreciating you and wanting you in his life then just trust him and accept that you are not distracting him or doing him any disservice.

But as far as your own needs and desires...yes, you do need to figure it out for yourself, like my b/f had to, if the benefits of being his companion through this outweigh the risks and challenges, and assess if you have the reserves of patience, empathy and forgiveness that you most likely are going to need in addition to your love, appreciation, admiration, respect and desire to support.

 

It is a lot that you would be asking of yourself...but there are potential great rewards available, too.

[michelleco]

Ronni and Carhill, thank you both. I needed to hear those things.

It's 'easy' to make blanket statements and suggestions about relationships that aren't ideal, by suggesting "why bother" or "they aren't ready" or "too much baggage," but the truth is, when it's worth it, it's worth it.

 

I do need to view his stories as a recitation of history, and not as a painpoint. I don't know WHY they bother me so much, because objectively, I understand why he does it, and I understand that he no longer wants to be married to his wife, and I understand that he loves me.

 

I also need to view this as a growing experience for me - to Ronni's point - to ensure that I have the patience, forgiveness and empathy required to make this work. I struggle with all of those, often times choosing the "it's not worth the irritation/struggle" path rather than "perservere, because it'll be worth it." (Not to say I am not EVER patient or forgiving - I am a single mom raising a little boy on my own and I pride myself on being a great mom. It's my relationships with men that always seem to trip me up.)

 

And yes, Carhill, you're right - I am divorced and from time to time do mention experiences I've had in my marriage, but it was a long time ago and I've spent many years being single and on my own. I do think it's a good idea to listen to his stories and then perhaps sprinkle in one of my own from my marriage and see how he reacts.

 

Is there a group on this forum of people in relationships with separated people? I'm really appreciating the insight here. Thank you all again.

Edited February 23, 2010 by michelleco

[Ronni_W]

people in relationships with separated people?

Personally, I'm not sure it's a good idea to think of your b/f as a "separated person" -- it's just an added label that doesn't add any value but does imply all sorts of "worse than normal" pitfalls, IMO.

 

It may be wiser to just think of him as a "loving, smart, kind, caring, wonderful person" who just so happens to be dealing with the challenges of going through a divorce. The qualities and strengths that would serve you, him and the relationship best are no different than if he was dealing with the challenges of caring for a parent dying of cancer.

 

Here's the real deal, though: For the next little (or long) while, he is going to say "we" and it won't mean you. He may even call you by her name sometimes. That's a fact of life that you either choose to accept or not. It's not his flaw, it's a reflection of his life up to the point he met you.

 

It will NOT mean that he is harbouring subconscious desires to get back with his ex. It will NOT mean that you're just a rebound for him. It will NOT mean that he does not care about you, appreciate you and love, respect and admire you. It will just be a reflection of his life up to this point.

 

So. You could hang in there and be patient as you two spend enough time together to create your own, mutual "we" memories. Until you do that with him, you just can't let this little ripple bother you. Or, you CAN let it bother you...but then you would be doing him (and possibly yourself as well) a huge disservice.

 

If I may, and speaking from my own experience. If you choose to let it continue to bother you, then you may wish to seriously consider ending the relationship. For both your sakes. He cannot help this about himself, and he doesn't need the added aggro at this point in his life and what he's going through.

In any case, it is not a flaw. It is his life up to this point, and you have free will choice to either accept this part of him...or not. If you want him, then this temporary situation is part of the package. You don't get to say, "I love you and your life experiences...except for those 15 years that you were married. Please don't make any reference to that." It's up to you to put things in proper context and perspective. It is his past. History. Not a threat to you.

 

Just be with him and be has happy as you both can for as long as you both can.

Sound like a plan?

Edited February 23, 2010 by Ronni_W

[michelleco]

Ronni, you're very wise! I know you're right, on all accounts. That is some sage advice. Thank you so much for taking the time for me - I appreciate you!

[Ronni_W]

Thank you, michelle. To be honest, I'm much more a poster child old broad for "too soon old, too late wise."

In this case, I'm really just drawing on how my b/f handled himself -- with grace, style and HUGE globs of humour . We could not have made it without that.

 

And you can't imagine what he had to deal with...not the last of which that his name is just one letter off from my ex's -- the same as "Dan" versus "Don". Especially at the beginning, "Don" was forever being called "Dan" by my friends, loved ones and colleagues. They'd be embarrassed as crap, but "Don" took it all in stride.

 

Also that my ex was HUGELY loved and extremely well-liked by one and all, so "Don" had big shoes to fill in that regard, as well. He did it by trusting his instincts, focusing on the positives and turning the seeming "negatives" into non-events and non-issues.

 

You can do it, too, yes? In any case, if your guy is the gem that you say he is, then how crazy would you be, not to?

 

Hugs and best.