The ever constant question of men, porn, and jealousy... !

[pyroguy]

your right. we both actually agree, and are pointlessly arguing. Yes I believe it can go both ways. It is painful to either party to watch their significant other watching porn when they arent doing it themselves. Your also right I automatically say women, because we openly whine about it, and Im sure there are plenty of men who feel the same way they just dont openly express those feelings. So all you hear about is the women it hurts.

 

So no matter which sex doing it, watching porn is never "innocent" and it can be to some extent degrading to the other person. The other person should never be treated as inadequate, stupid, or overbearing if their feelings are hurt by it. Its the methods taken by both parties after it has been brought up that may be stupid or overbearing. Both parties should give a little if they really love each other.

 

Do you agree with that?

 

Absolutely. Funny thing is, I never want to be the guy who avoids his SO from seeing something or doing something because I place all kinds of restrictions. The turn on would be if they felt they really didn't need that, and weren't at all attracted to the particulat activity in question. Not that I physically prevented her from doing so, or guilted her out of it.

 

In my situation, I haven't been to see strippers in over a decade-I don't think since I've been married. First, the idea of paying some woman to strip down to a G-string is a bit silly. I live on the East Coast, and it's expensive. I have better thing to do with my money, like paying for my daughters braces.

 

Also, It would feel a bit strange (maybe not dispespectful) to go out to one of those clubs, get all horny, then come home and expect my wife to be all excited by that. I'm all for secure, but I don't know how good you can feel after that, man or woman, even if you're good looking and in good shape. I realize that, place myself in her shoes, and I can easily understand. I would feel a bit put off too. I workout plenty, and believe it or not want to look good for her as much as myself. SO, it would be a bit dissapointing. Maybe not a showstopper, but a bummer.

 

So, I just don't indulge in that. I have watched some porn, but not excessive, and I know women don't buy this, but it's often the activity and the visual of it that is so appealing. Yes, the women look really good, and it may not work the same if she weren't, but many times our SO's can be just as good. It really is the detail of what is on-screen.

 

In the end, I definitely see your point and other females who are leary of it. For those who don't care at all, god bless you.

Edited March 22, 2010 by pyroguy

[Jersey Shortie]

thegreatesthumphrey:

He was getting off to other women's sexier bodies than mine, and imagining himself having sex with her. It hurts to think about that. Society puts alot of pressure on women to be sexy and sexually desirable to men. Its hard for women to accept the fact that their men enjoy getting off to other more attractive women. It is deflating of our femininity just like certain things deflate a man's masculine ego....Maybe with my explanation on how it effects the woman and why, then relating it in a way men may understand they may have a little more sympathy and not be so harsh.

 

To be honest, I really don't understand why men don't understand something so simple about the expectations things like porn place on how a woman's body is, his enjoyment of this ideal female form, and how women are suppose to feel about that. When you point out to a man that these things are bothersome, they say "it's just fantasy". But to me, he might as wel lbe saying "it's what I dream about having but can't." Because that's what fantasy is. It's about the thing you want that you can't have in the moment. He wants those girls on some level and I don't live up to his expectations. But I am suppose to be super confident about my body even though he is sending the message it's not good enough for him.

 

Pyroguy:

This is why I don't get all the women and their anti-porn message. Their original thought is valid, but they refuse to see that it goes both ways.

 

No. POrn doesn't hold the same expectations for men that it does for women. Since most porn is about catering to men. When you see a medium, that is geared to what interests men, filled with fake breasted, young women that don't have a thought in their head but to please a man, it speaks volumes about what men really want out of women.

 

 

There is porn that is very popular right now thar absolutely denegrates men-especially husbands. Where is the female outrage?

 

Never heard of such a thing. What is this type of porn called? What is happening to these men in these movies that is degrading? How popular is it? I really don't think it's popular at all. I sincerely do not believe most women are watching porn that degrades husbands or men. I sincerely believe most men do sit around and watch porn that degrades women. Women don't have a desire to see men degraded like men seem to ahve a desire to see women degraded.

 

And, I totally reject the idea of how tough society is on women. Society is tough on women AND men. C'mon, we are flooded with male sex symbols all over TV, usually with their shirt off as often as possible. THrow in the shows that focus on superior men, and how should men feel?

 

Love how you want to completely ignore, even reject, the standards society places on women and only want to rally for me. Interesting take that. Truth is, female sex symbols are never ending . From lad mags to porn, women are objetified 10 fold then men are.But men do face their own body image concerns. However, men do not have to get the level of plastic surgery women do to maintain an image that women enjoy. Women do just that to maintain a fake image men enjoy.

 

That is how men view porn in a nutshell. Thank you very much! For all women who dont understand why now..... there it is. They want someone else sexually and want you for stability. And you have the NERVE to talk bad about women who are hurt by that. According to you we are just supposed to accept that. The majority of women love with their whole hearts and want only their man in both aspects. I would be completely happy if we could have a relationship like that. Men are so selfish to feel they have the RIGHT to be able to say I want this person sexually and I want you for support.

 

Well said! Too many men forgo creating an enviroment in a relationship that makes a woman feel secure because of their desire for porn and othe rwomen and having free rain to cater to any sexual pull. Then they get mad when women naturally feel insecure with the relationship and her place in it while he is off responding willy nilly to his sexual urges to other women.

 

Just as porn sexually excites men with the visual of sex. Watching your man respond to other women can cause an equally emotional response.

[pyroguy]

The problem with you is that you refuse to see any other person affected but yourself and other women. You just refuse to believe. So, what can I say.

 

For your info, the "please Bang my wife" (as funny as that sounds) series happens to be the one of the most sold genres out there. I just recently heard somewhere about how popular MILF and Cougar porn is.

 

Also, any porn these days can give females distorted images of males, can it not? I'm convinced that many women, young and old have been influenced by the.. ahem.. ,members of the male porn stars, which more than 80-90% of average men are not. Even some of the women here.

 

Do you not read all the women here who aren't attracted to their husband, for no seamingly good reason?

 

What if I told you I feel all this pressure? am I lying? should I not be given the same credence? or, will you refuse to believe that it's tough for men too? will you do what most society does? tell men to shut up and be confident, regardless of what is dished out? It's just like the thread on shy guys. AS you can see, modern women want men confident, regardless of what images THEY have to live up to, and regardless of how their women prattle on and on about other men-and they do!

 

I hope when and if you have a son, and he seems a bit affected by this same issue, you don't tell him that men just don't have it as bad, and to cut it out, man-up.

[Jersey Shortie]

The problem with you is that you refuse to see any other person affected but yourself and other women. You just refuse to believe. So, what can I say.

 

Not at all, I pay attention to how men are affected by porn because it influences their relationships with women.

 

For your info, the "please Bang my wife" (as funny as that sounds) series happens to be the one of the most sold genres out there. I just recently heard somewhere about how popular MILF and Cougar porn is.

 

Is it as popular as porn with school girls in it? How many 40 year old men with wives and daughters like seeing "school girls", "babysitter"..etc etc...How old are the women in these movies? I remember one time seeing a porn with an ex boyfriend, in those times I was trying to be such a good girlfriend by having us watch porn only so he could bang me finishing the job about all the porn girls he wanted to bang, and there was a MILF porn but all the girls looked like the were probably 25. It just said "MILF" in the title.

 

 

Also, any porn these days can give females distorted images of males, can it not? I'm convinced that many women, young and old have been influenced by the.. ahem.. ,members of the male porn stars, which more than 80-90% of average men are not. Even some of the women here.

 

Most porn is made by men for men. Most women aren't sitting around looking at porn at the level that most men are. Ask any woman here what she thinks about men in porn and ask any man here what he thinks about women in porn and their answers are very telling. Men will lamenate how hot the women are and how much they wish they could be with them sexually and go on and on about how these women are their deepest fantasies. Women will say things like they just like the actual sex, they like seeing what is happening to the woman, they might see a big dick and be like "wow", but they don't want to be with the dude. And he isn't her fantasy. The men in porn are not picked because they are female fantasy. The men in porn are picked because men want to believe them to be the huge dicked guy banging the hot woman.

 

 

Do you not read all the women here who aren't attracted to their husband, for no seamingly good reason?

 

Do you want to ignore every point I bring up to counter it with issues men face? I am all for talking about things that concern men. But you want to hide behind this as to not address what is being brought up in regard to women.

 

What if I told you I feel all this pressure? am I lying? should I not be given the same credence? or, will you refuse to believe that it's tough for men too?

 

No. I do not think you are lying. Yes, of course you should have credence. But not at the expense of ignoring how these things affect women too. The fact that you can feel pressure does not negate what happens to women. If you want to discuss these things, start another thread where you draw your points out. I have yet to see you do that. Instead, you decide to latch onto a thread that is clearly presenting how things affect women by staying "well things affect men to" How does that help the dicussion?

 

 

I hope when and if you have a son, and he seems a bit affected by this same issue, you don't tell him that men just don't have it as bad, and to cut it out, man-up.

 

I hope when you have a daughter, when any man here has a daughter, he learns how difficult the world is on women. How boys her age will very well disrespect her. How she will marry a man that very well will enjoy pornography. How she can't hold any expectation that a man will be happy with her as a person and woman alone without have to compenstate with outside media that is all about the breast implanted 18 year olds.

[pyroguy]

Not at all, I pay attention to how men are affected by porn because it influences their relationships with women.

 

 

 

Is it as popular as porn with school girls in it? How many 40 year old men with wives and daughters like seeing "school girls", "babysitter"..etc etc...How old are the women in these movies? I remember one time seeing a porn with an ex boyfriend, in those times I was trying to be such a good girlfriend by having us watch porn only so he could bang me finishing the job about all the porn girls he wanted to bang, and there was a MILF porn but all the girls looked like the were probably 25. It just said "MILF" in the title.

 

 

 

 

Most porn is made by men for men. Most women aren't sitting around looking at porn at the level that most men are. Ask any woman here what she thinks about men in porn and ask any man here what he thinks about women in porn and their answers are very telling. Men will lamenate how hot the women are and how much they wish they could be with them sexually and go on and on about how these women are their deepest fantasies. Women will say things like they just like the actual sex, they like seeing what is happening to the woman, they might see a big dick and be like "wow", but they don't want to be with the dude. And he isn't her fantasy. The men in porn are not picked because they are female fantasy. The men in porn are picked because men want to believe them to be the huge dicked guy banging the hot woman.

 

 

 

 

Do you want to ignore every point I bring up to counter it with issues men face? I am all for talking about things that concern men. But you want to hide behind this as to not address what is being brought up in regard to women.

 

 

 

No. I do not think you are lying. Yes, of course you should have credence. But not at the expense of ignoring how these things affect women too. The fact that you can feel pressure does not negate what happens to women. If you want to discuss these things, start another thread where you draw your points out. I have yet to see you do that. Instead, you decide to latch onto a thread that is clearly presenting how things affect women by staying "well things affect men to" How does that help the dicussion?

 

 

 

 

I hope when you have a daughter, when any man here has a daughter, he learns how difficult the world is on women. How boys her age will very well disrespect her. How she will marry a man that very well will enjoy pornography. How she can't hold any expectation that a man will be happy with her as a person and woman alone without have to compenstate with outside media that is all about the breast implanted 18 year olds.

 

 

First, I DO have a daughter, who is now the delicate age of 13. Believe me, I'm well aware of the world in which she is growing up in, and I'm not happy about it. Nobody wants her to be more confident and independant than me.

 

Next, I do not ignore what women go through. The issue is that it's a co-ed issue- not just a woman's- IMO- Thus, why separate the two? you sound a jealous little girl who wants the attention to herself. Why should there be separate threads?

 

By the way, that series featured supposed real couples where the husband would sit and watch his wife get it on, almost always with a physically superior male, and she acted like he was next coming of Jesus. That must be great for the husband;s confidence, no? I'm not sure if they are real amateurs. SOme may not be, but they seem somewhat believable. In any case, it was one of the biggest sellers, from whatI heard.

 

I actually agree with you that more men watch porn, but the gap is closing as women continue to come out of their shell. Yes, the women say "wow" when they see the guy- for a reason. It's pretty naive then not to think what and who they are fantasizing about. I'm not sure why you dispute this since the one poster here, who herself had the same issue, admitted doing the same thing when she saw the male porn stars.

 

Anyway, we just see it a bit different. So, there isn't much to argue about. There is so much porn that affects men negatively that you would be shocked, but I'm not going to go on a porn fact finding mission with you.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Is it as popular as porn with school girls in it? How many 40 year old men with wives and daughters like seeing "school girls", "babysitter"..etc etc...How old are the women in these movies?

 

I was reading an interesting article in ... I think it was Scientific American or Psychology Today or something like that (just a magazine I picked up at work when I was taking a break) about the nature of sexual fantasy and it said that we tend to fantasize about things that we thought about when we were sexually imprinting (around the age we start becoming sexually aware and masturbating with a purpose).

 

It would make sense that men would by and large be subconsciously attracted to images of younger women when masturbating not necessarily because they are selfish, or perverts or whatnot but primarily because they were thinking of younger nubile women when they first started masturbating. They wouldn't be fantasizing about the "old ladies in their 30s and 40s" (who to a boy who is 10-13 ARE 'old ladies') they'd be thinking about that girl in their class, or the young actress in some movie they watched, the hot babysitter, or maybe even that young pretty Sunday school teacher and so on. What they thought of when they first started masturbating was what imprints on, and stays with them.

 

Sexual preferences and experiences would be age appropriate, but when it comes to masturbating on his own time - it would be hit a broader range, including the sort of stuff that turned him on decades before he was even a fully sexual being. Before even the idea of a girlfriend, much less a wife and daughters. What does that say about a man who does that? Not much more than he tends to separate out his sexual life from his masturbation one.

 

The biggest mistake I see women here make is that for whatever reason, they think that sex and masturbation are the same thing for a man. They just aren't, period. Nothing will change that. A man can be discreet and control himself (which he should - the way I see it, a man should only reveal the parts of his masturbatory life to the women he is with to the extent of what he wants to share with her - otherwise, it shouldn't be any more her business than how she takes a dump is his business. It is personal, private. Not meant to be shared.)

 

I can remember my own first sexual stirrings, and things I was thinking of and you know... it really did set a pattern that has lasted through my life in terms of what I find attractive and so on.

[Jersey Shortie]

First, I DO have a daughter, who is now the delicate age of 13. Believe me, I'm well aware of the world in which she is growing up in, and I'm not happy about it. Nobody wants her to be more confident and independant than me.

 

Then you understand better with men that don't have daughters. Although I don't understand why it takes a man having a daughter to gain a new insight in how to treat women of the opposite sex. Not saying that was/is the case with you but it for alot of men. You do realize that the boys she will like and interact with will be viewing a medium like pornography that doesn't exactly depict the best things of men or women. You do realize that she will be trying to have relationships with these boys. It's not a once-a-month Playboy spread anymore.

 

Next, I do not ignore what women go through. The issue is that it's a co-ed issue- not just a woman's- IMO- Thus, why separate the two? you sound a jealous little girl who wants the attention to herself. Why should there be separate threads?

 

Yes, it is a gender issue on some fronts. Men do not experience it the same way women do. I am not saying men are completely separate from struggling with media issues themselves. But there is a big difference between men and women, how they are affected, how they are represented. And I think it's worth while to save one thread for one part and another thread for another. Otherwise all we do is have a discussion where things like "it happens to them too so it's okay". Other then specifically addressing each gender's separate situations. That is why I encourage you to start a thread to express the ways you think men struggle. I will be open to talking about it 100%. But for this thread, lets have a real discussion and not the standard and uninformative "they do it too" speech that side tracks from any real discussion.

 

By the way, that series featured supposed real couples where the husband would sit and watch his wife get it on, almost always with a physically superior male, and she acted like he was next coming of Jesus. That must be great for the husband;s confidence, no?

 

I sincerely bet most of those movies are made for men, by men. There are many men that said they want to see their wife with someone else. As for the woman acting like he is the next coming of Jesus, that's how all the women in porn act because that's what men want.

 

 

I actually agree with you that more men watch porn, but the gap is closing as women continue to come out of their shell. Yes, the women say "wow" when they see the guy- for a reason. It's pretty naive then not to think what and who they are fantasizing about. I'm not sure why you dispute this since the one poster here, who herself had the same issue, admitted doing the same thing when she saw the male porn stars.

 

The one poster here also said a bunch of other things that further dig into how men and women are different and how they view things. You are only taking bits and pieces that best support what you want to believe.

 

You never answered my question. How old are the women in these Milf porn?

[Jersey Shortie]

It would make sense that men would by and large be subconsciously attracted to images of younger women when masturbating not necessarily because they are selfish, or perverts or whatnot but primarily because they were thinking of younger nubile women when they first started masturbating. They wouldn't be fantasizing about the "old ladies in their 30s and 40s" (who to a boy who is 10-13 ARE 'old ladies') they'd be thinking about that girl in their class, or the young actress in some movie they watched, the hot babysitter, or maybe even that young pretty Sunday school teacher and so on. What they thought of when they first started masturbating was what imprints on, and stays with them.

 

For that to be true then wouldn't they also be thinking of themselves as still in the role of the 10-13 year old as well?

 

I don't think they do though.

 

 

The biggest mistake I see women here make is that for whatever reason, they think that sex and masturbation are the same thing for a man. They just aren't, period. Nothing will change that. A man can be discreet and control himself (which he should - the way I see it, a man should only reveal the parts of his masturbatory life to the women he is with to the extent of what he wants to share with her - otherwise, it shouldn't be any more her business than how she takes a dump is his business. It is personal, private. Not meant to be shared.)

 

No. I do not think that masturbation and sex are the same thing for men at all. I think that men put women into neat little boxes and take them out dependent on what they feel in the moment. The porn for the fantasies they really want, and the real women that fulfill emotional needs and are the real women there for him. The two different women fulfill him as a man, he draws from two different experiences. One or the other doesn't make him completely feel like a man. So really, the porn is half % of the equation and sadly, that means that his wife or gf is only the other half.

 

I think the kind of porn a man likes says a lot about who he is, personally and privately. And if you don't think you can share your sexual fantasies with your partner, then how do you share the more difficult stuff? You seem to want to make the case that at the end of the day it doesn't' matter what someone is into sexually, but if that's true, why would the fantasy have to be private?

 

And when I was 15, I liked 15 year old boys. I had experiences with them. At this age, I have no interest in 15 year old boys. I might remember those experiences fondly but that is all.

[calizaggy]

Some things cannot be changed.. Men like younger women with nice bodies.

 

However, I agree with jersey in one way. Porn is not good for society..

 

When porn is everywhere, many men get just enough from porn that they do not even need a real woman. If they get a real woman often times they prefer porn.

 

If I have a girlfriend, I do not look at porn. I know I would be pretty pissed at her if she didn't want to have sex because she got herself off while looking at a computer.

 

 

The type of porn jersey mentions arises because people typically need more and more extreme scenarios when they are flooded with porn.. At first a naked breast is a turn on.. Then soft porn.. Then hardcore.. Then threesomes.. Then bukkake.. Then humiliation etc etc.

[LucreziaBorgia]

For that to be true then wouldn't they also be thinking of themselves as still in the role of the 10-13 year old as well?

 

I don't think they do though.

 

I think on some level they do - to the extent that on some level they think of what they are doing as something they might get in trouble for if they are caught by their SO. A lot of women who 'catch' them indeed treat them like a horrified mother would if she caught her 13 year old son beating off - as if it is something he 'shouldn't be doing' and should be punished for on some emotional level or other.

 

And if you don't think you can share your sexual fantasies with your partner, then how do you share the more difficult stuff?

 

Unfortunately, it is that honest sharing of fantasy that can and often does lead to the end of the relationship. Some things are meant to be private. I fully feel that MOST sexual fantasy (particularly the ones you know might offend your partner) should not be shared. Only share what will work for your partner. Keep the rest to yourself.

 

As for the difficult things - those sorts of things don't seem to cut into women's hearts in quite the same way as hearing what HONESTLY turns their partners on, so it doesn't quite compare. Being honest about the difficult issues is one thing. Being honest about what turns you on is quite another. One is negotiable, the other (what turns you on or off) isn't.

 

As for what we fantasize about - it isn't the age, so much as the type - when I was younger I used to fantasize about Harrison Ford. Not now, of course - but I do fantasize about the 'Han Solo/Indiana Jones' type, just like a man may not fantasize about a particular person he did when he was 13, but would still fantasize about the 'types' of women he first did.

 

Now porn? That is a different thing I guess - it is just a tool for fueling the fantasy. I do agree that it can get out of hand, so to speak - but if it is discreet and private and does not affect the relationship then I don't see the problem.

Edited March 28, 2010 by LucreziaBorgia

[Jersey Shortie]

Some things cannot be changed.. Men like younger women with nice bodies.

 

Calizaguy, what do you want women to say to this? Thank men for being so good to us even while they tell us how worthless they consider us depending on our age and body? Kiss men's butts for giving us the time of day when we are young and still kiss your butts even as you tell us how little value you consider women to have? Kiss your butts because men want to tell women how much better they are then us for getting older? While you can sit there and put women down? Really, what do you men want from women? Clearly you don't want love and loyatly and respect.

 

 

I think on some level they do - to the extent that on some level they think of what they are doing as something they might get in trouble for if they are caught by their SO. A lot of women who 'catch' them indeed treat them like a horrified mother would if she caught her 13 year old son beating off - as if it is something he 'shouldn't be doing' and should be punished for on some emotional level or other.

 

Is it that the woman acts like the horrified mother or the guy reverts to being the 13 year old boy? I think the shame men carry about porn has to do with their own feelings of shame from their teen years about jerking off. Do I think the solution is making porn even more acceptable? No. I actually think the reason men feel shame about porn is because they know they aren't treating women very well to begin with. That they are getting off to an industry that dehumanizes women in general. Then they turn around and wonder why women don't in turn, respect them. Even as men grow up and mature, they seem to remain pretty stagnant with it comes to porn. I use to read alot of fluff gir mags like Cosmo. I don't because I grew out of that crap. I wonder what it is in men that doesn't enable many of them not to grow up habits they had when they were 12 year olds!

 

Unfortunately, it is that honest sharing of fantasy that can and often does lead to the end of the relationship. Some things are meant to be private. I fully feel that MOST sexual fantasy (particularly the ones you know might offend your partner) should not be shared. Only share what will work for your partner. Keep the rest to yourself.

 

Really??? You really believe that? Why? I think there is something wrong if you can't share your fantasies with your partner. If you can't share them, yuo must be ashamed of them. And if you are ashamed of them, then maybe you have reaso nto be ashamed of them. I don't know though.

 

As for the difficult things - those sorts of things don't seem to cut into women's hearts in quite the same way as hearing what HONESTLY turns their partners on, so it doesn't quite compare. Being honest about the difficult issues is one thing. Being honest about what turns you on is quite another. One is negotiable, the other (what turns you on or off) isn't.

 

Well, if we are talking about how the man you loved and respect wants to do the babysitter, yeah, that is really going to hurt and bring up some serious questions about how much this man can be trusted. even if he can be trusted. Maybe that's true. However, I rather know and make my own choices then live in compete ignorance and think that this man is a good guy that cares about me. I rather not be made a fool of because he is thinking about having sex with the babysitter, making a joke out of me.

 

As for what we fantasize about - it isn't the age, so much as the type - when I was younger I used to fantasize about Harrison Ford. Not now, of course - but I do fantasize about the 'Han Solo/Indiana Jones' type, just like a man may not fantasize about a particular person he did when he was 13, but would still fantasize about the 'types' of women he first did.

 

I am not so sure that's the case all the time.

 

Now porn? That is a different thing I guess - it is just a tool for fueling the fantasy. I do agree that it can get out of hand, so to speak - but if it is discreet and private and does not affect the relationship then I don't see the problem.

 

I think what kind of porn a man likes says alot about him. And if he likes alot of school girl porn then I would suggest he stay away from the school yard.

 

Thing is, with keeping it private and discreet, you don't really know what kind of person you are dealing with. And that is pretty scary.

 

Sucks being a woman now-a-days. So much easier for men.

[LucreziaBorgia]

1. Is it that the woman acts like the horrified mother or the guy reverts to being the 13 year old boy? I think the shame men carry about porn has to do with their own feelings of shame from their teen years about jerking off. I actually think the reason men feel shame about porn is because they know they aren't treating women very well to begin with. That they are getting off to an industry that dehumanizes women in general.

 

2. Really??? You really believe that? Why? I think there is something wrong if you can't share your fantasies with your partner. If you can't share them, yuo must be ashamed of them. And if you are ashamed of them, then maybe you have reaso nto be ashamed of them. I don't know though.

 

3. Well, if we are talking about how the man you loved and respect wants to do the babysitter, yeah, that is really going to hurt and bring up some serious questions about how much this man can be trusted. even if he can be trusted. Maybe that's true. However, I rather know and make my own choices then live in compete ignorance and think that this man is a good guy that cares about me. I rather not be made a fool of because he is thinking about having sex with the babysitter, making a joke out of me.

 

4. I think what kind of porn a man likes says alot about him. And if he likes alot of school girl porn then I would suggest he stay away from the school yard.

 

5. Thing is, with keeping it private and discreet, you don't really know what kind of person you are dealing with. And that is pretty scary.

 

6. So much easier for men.

 

1. I think both roles happen when a man is 'caught'. I don't think men feel shame because of how women are treated - they feel shame because porn was a taboo thing when they were living under mom and dad's roof, and the feeling of 'wrongness' carries over when they are answering to a gf/wife/SO. It doesn't have anything to do with the treatment of women because that isn't what men think about when they watch porn. It is just a visual stimuli for them, that helps along the orgasm.

 

2. Not everyone has fantasies that their partner will like. I know I have fantasies that my man wouldn't like - so those I keep to myself. It isn't out of shame, it is out of my willingness not to hurt him with stuff that doesn't have to do with him. I share the ones that are meant for both of us. Why keep things private? Because when you are part of a couple, you don't discard your 'self' that is separate from that person. To do so is emotionally unhealthy and shows a disrespect for, and a disregarding of healthy boundaries. Men aren't really allowed to be honest when it comes to their sexual fantasies. They will nearly always be punished for it in some way or other.

 

3. Why would a man who fantasizes about having sex with the babysitter be making a fool of you? His fantasy has nothing to do with reality. That is why it is called 'fantasy'.

 

4. Men and women both have an astounding array of fantasies that sometimes say something about them, but just as often not. Ever read any Nancy Friday? Fantasizing about schoolgirls does not mean that a man is a pervert who actually would have sex with a schoolgirl.

 

5. Why would someone need to know private and discreet things about their SO? That is overstepping healthy boundaries. Some things - things that have nothing whatsoever to do with how the person feels about their SO, probably shouldn't be shared. What would be the point? All it would do is hurt feelings and mess up an otherwise great relationship. People aren't meant to know each and every thing about another person - not in any sort of relationship. I don't want to know what my SO thinks about when he jerks off any more than I want to know what my dad thinks when he jerks off. Not knowing those things does not change who they are to me. Why would they?

 

6. It really isn't easy for men. Hardly any of them have women who really understand male sexuality and sex drive. They are expected to conform to a woman's idea of male sexuality and sex drive. Quite different things.

[AAlike]

Lucrezia this is probably the best post that I've read in all of these back and forths about this subject.

 

In a much earlier circular debate with Jersey, I told her that despite all of her ire against "porn" per se, I felt that she had an inherent problem with male sexuality as a whole. Do I think that she hates men - no, I really don't - but I think that she hates the way that men get turned on. I think that she really does want to like and accept men, and her obsession with this subject stems from frustration of not being able to reconcile the fact that seemingly good men are such "perverts."

[JackJack]

IMO, I'm not sure whether Jersey has a real "obsession" with it, and her views on it, anymore than anyone else here who has their "obsessive" view on it. I guess if she does have an "obsession" with her not caring for it, then so do others on how much they love it.

 

Some people love porn, some hate it, some are on the fence about it. I've seen my share of it in my day and could care less about it really. I could take it or leave it. I'm also thankful that I have enough self confidence in my aging process, that I don't feel the need to go look at at bunch of shaven teens. I did NOT say others couldn't if that's their thing, I'm just saying its not for me.

[Jersey Shortie]

I think both roles happen when a man is 'caught'. I don't think men feel shame because of how women are treated - they feel shame because porn was a taboo thing when they were living under mom and dad's roof, and the feeling of 'wrongness' carries over when they are answering to a gf/wife/SO. It doesn't have anything to do with the treatment of women because that isn't what men think about when they watch porn. It is just a visual stimuli for them, that helps along the orgasm.

 

Yeah, I get that porn is a visual stimuli. I don't get how it makes it okay to treat women or represent them in a certain negative way that porn usually does. It seems to me that you are saying that the visual stimulus men get from porn is of greater value then how women are depicted in porn. And that women shouldn't be concerned with what men are viewing because men need to jerk off and that's what is important. Even if it comes at the expense of how women are treated and represented. I can't say I agree with that at all.

 

I don't deny the shame from childhood being carried over. I also think the shame comes from knowing they are looking at something that doesn't treat women nicely. But then again, maybe you are right and men could careless about how women are treated as long as they get to jerk off. Is that really any better?

 

Men aren't really allowed to be honest when it comes to their sexual fantasies. They will nearly always be punished for it in some way or other.

 

I totally disagree! Men are allowed to be 100x more honest in their sexual fantasies and indulge them. Mass media is more ready to indulge male fantasy then female. Hence the reason why displays of homesexual women are more widely accepted them displays of homosexual men. The porn industry is made up of mostly male fantasy. Made by and catered to men indulging all their sexual fantasies. And it's more often that a man will ask his partner to indulge his fantasty then vice versa.I really disagree with this because men are allowed to indugle mroe in their fantasy and get free passes for it, even at the expense of either the woman in their life or the woman he is using to fullfill himself with.

 

3. Why would a man who fantasizes about having sex with the babysitter be making a fool of you? His fantasy has nothing to do with reality. That is why it is called 'fantasy'.

 

Well, again, I disagree. What person wouldn't feel sorry for the wife that has a man that was thinking of doing his babysitter. He is making a fool of his life partner. The woman that destroyed her body so his kids could populate the earth. And the thanks she gets is his sexual fantasy of the babysitter.

 

I think people's fantasies say alot about them. Where their interests lie or don't. I understand why it's called "fantasy". It's the desire for something you don't have and that is so great and big, it's out of your grasp or unattainable. When we consider something unattainable, we place a big importance on it and make it bigger in our head. Just because it's termed "fantasy", doesn't mean the person doesn't want it to not come true.

 

How many guys actually do get it on with the babysitter? Enough that the scenerio is not a stranger to the mass public. Women shouldn't have a concer about what his sexual fantasies say he desires?

 

It makes a joke out of everything. The wife, what she's done for him, baring his kids, His kids themselves. So many guys, too many guys are willing to sell out their wives and gfs for a fantasy on the screen or in real life.

 

4. Men and women both have an astounding array of fantasies that sometimes say something about them, but just as often not. Ever read any Nancy Friday? Fantasizing about schoolgirls does not mean that a man is a pervert who actually would have sex with a schoolgirl.

 

No, I never heard of Nancy Friday. But I don't think it's unreasonable as a woman to be concerned that your partner is thinking about school girls or asks you to dress up like one so he can live out his fantasy the best he's allowed to.

 

Feel free to share what she says.

 

5. Why would someone need to know private and discreet things about their SO? That is overstepping healthy boundaries. Some things - things that have nothing whatsoever to do with how the person feels about their SO, probably shouldn't be shared. What would be the point? All it would do is hurt feelings and mess up an otherwise great relationship. People aren't meant to know each and every thing about another person - not in any sort of relationship. I don't want to know what my SO thinks about when he jerks off any more than I want to know what my dad thinks when he jerks off. Not knowing those things does not change who they are to me. Why would they?

 

But knowing them might change who they are to you. So ignorance is bliss? I rather know what I am dealing with then live a life that's a lie.

 

6. It really isn't easy for men. Hardly any of them have women who really understand male sexuality and sex drive. They are expected to conform to a woman's idea of male sexuality and sex drive. Quite different things.

 

No, I think women do understand. But it often appears that male sexuality and sex drive are all about replacing women for whatever is newer, shinier and what men preceive to be better. It seems that women are the one's that pay the price for male sexuality while clearly, men can greatly benefit from it and enjoy themselves and as a woman, you're left hanging to the side in the dust compared to what he *really* wants..Such as babysitters, school girls, the woman down the street, heck, even your children's friends maybe when they hit 18. And that is a quite scarey world to live in. Knowing that what men want isn't so much monogomy or the respect for one partner but instead what a consistant revovling door of the newer more exciting better women to feel happy.

 

And I have to say that I think there is way more expectation for women to conform to male sexuality then the reverse. We are suppose to view sex causally and be happy that men enjoy replacing us with whatever catches their fleeting fancy but remain loyaly by their side and pretend that it's not bothersome when men repeatidly seek out woman after woman to indulge themselves. We are suppose to be excited when he wants to invite another girl into the mix because after all, he's a man and needs variety right? And you alone just aren't enough compared to his sexual prownees and greatness as a man.

 

I think women understand male sexuality. I think too often today, men have made justificatoins on why it's okay for them to indulge themselves whenever they feel it. And women are suppose to be thankful of the breadcrumbs we get thrown our way I guess.

 

Well that's disheartening and scarey as hell.

[dreamingoftigers]

My husband and I are both sexual addicts.

 

We are both very susceptible to porn. I have been porn-free for over a year. My husband has successively lied about it and used constantly.

 

We have no sex life. He holds no more attraction for me. He is having a relationship with the porn and I watch his kid. There is nothing more painful in the world.

 

There is something to be said about brain platiscity. Where you invest your time is where your heart ends up going. My husband can look at porn for hours. He has never, in the whole time we have been together (5 years) spent more then an average of ten minutes with me in bed fooling around.

 

He has no emotional energy left for anything else. I am not sure that our marriage can be repaired anymore.

I hate porn. It ate my marriage fro breakfast, he relationship with my daughter for lunch and snacked on my self-esteem and confidence.

[JackJack]

I'm sorry to hear this. Where do you find your strength and power to stay in something so unfulfilling?

[dreamingoftigers]

I am on my very last pegs of hope. We see the sexual addictions counselor Monday and she is going to ask him what he really wants.

 

Honestly, he will never be able to make a rational decision about our marriage as long as he is still looking at porn so much. He will never know what he really wants because he keeps blunting his feelings with it.

[AAlike]

So just out of curiosity, both you and your husband have used porn in an addictive manner, and you are a year clean and he is using?

 

I definitely sympathize with you - although I have never tried to engage in a romantic relationship with an addict, both my brother and father are addicts (which has taken form in various incantations, drugs, gambling) and I would agree completely that it is impossible - an addict while using is incapable of showing love, or even being loved, actually.

[dreamingoftigers]

I agree I didn't realize that we had this issue when we met.

[AAlike]

Are you saying that you developed your addictions together? or that you knew that you were an addict and were unaware that he was also?

[BlueeyedJonesy]

Dreaming of tigers..I am so sorry to hear of your pain.

 

My H is a recovering SA and yes, it is common for the W to become entangled in the porn as well. It started out as watching it with him and we would fool around together and I had no idea about everything else he was up to..

 

You are in a toxic situation and I am so so soooo sorry..because I can feel the pain just reading your post. If you ever need someone to talk to please PM me.

[BlueeyedJonesy]

Absolutely. Funny thing is, I never want to be the guy who avoids his SO from seeing something or doing something because I place all kinds of restrictions. The turn on would be if they felt they really didn't need that, and weren't at all attracted to the particulat activity in question. Not that I physically prevented her from doing so, or guilted her out of it.

 

In my situation, I haven't been to see strippers in over a decade-I don't think since I've been married. First, the idea of paying some woman to strip down to a G-string is a bit silly. I live on the East Coast, and it's expensive. I have better thing to do with my money, like paying for my daughters braces.

 

Also, It would feel a bit strange (maybe not dispespectful) to go out to one of those clubs, get all horny, then come home and expect my wife to be all excited by that. I'm all for secure, but I don't know how good you can feel after that, man or woman, even if you're good looking and in good shape. I realize that, place myself in her shoes, and I can easily understand. I would feel a bit put off too. I workout plenty, and believe it or not want to look good for her as much as myself. SO, it would be a bit dissapointing. Maybe not a showstopper, but a bummer.

 

So, I just don't indulge in that. I have watched some porn, but not excessive, and I know women don't buy this, but it's often the activity and the visual of it that is so appealing. Yes, the women look really good, and it may not work the same if she weren't, but many times our SO's can be just as good. It really is the detail of what is on-screen.

 

In the end, I definitely see your point and other females who are leary of it. For those who don't care at all, god bless you.

 

Your W is a lucky lady pyro..you sound like and honest man.

[SarahRose]

When I started watching porn.... he became extremely jealous just like I was. Doing ALL the same things! I just found that intresting when the roles are changed how a man would react.

 

Hows that for an interesting topic of discussion.

 

So, the men that are so stuck on "Im gonna watch porn deal with it" are actually thinking of no one but themselves, because if he wasnt he would take the time out to think about himself in your shoes. Then he would realize its not so fun and not be so cruel to you, even if ultimately he kept watching..... he wouldnt be cruel.

 

As I was reading through this thread, I was wondering if you would do the same to him. Watch a bunch of porn and he would be jealous and insecure about you doing it but it is perfectly fine for him to do.

 

Men are extremely insecure. Porn is very selfish and men are expressing that selfishness when they say there is nothing wrong with watching lots of porn and they won't stop. They aren't thinking about what if their gf or wife was looking at a bunch of well hung young stud muffins constantly and thinking about having sex with them. I seriously doubt most men would like it at all.

 

Oh they say they wouldn't care because once again they selfishly think they are going to get the benefits of her increased desire but then when they find out she is bored in bed with them as she is getting her fix to the well young young things, and their sex life dwindles down to nothing, he isn't so keen on it anymore.

 

To any of you ladies who are sick and tired of having to put up with your man's porn rubbish, just do it back to them and then some. Leave naked men photos laying all around and on your computer.

[Engadget]

As I was reading through this thread, I was wondering if you would do the same to him. Watch a bunch of porn and he would be jealous and insecure about you doing it but it is perfectly fine for him to do.

 

Men are extremely insecure. Porn is very selfish and men are expressing that selfishness when they say there is nothing wrong with watching lots of porn and they won't stop. They aren't thinking about what if their gf or wife was looking at a bunch of well hung young stud muffins constantly and thinking about having sex with them. I seriously doubt most men would like it at all.

 

Oh they say they wouldn't care because once again they selfishly think they are going to get the benefits of her increased desire but then when they find out she is bored in bed with them as she is getting her fix to the well young young things, and their sex life dwindles down to nothing, he isn't so keen on it anymore.

 

To any of you ladies who are sick and tired of having to put up with your man's porn rubbish, just do it back to them and then some. Leave naked men photos laying all around and on your computer.

 

Most men would not care about this.