They said it would happen.

[RedDevil66]

It's an attempt when it's only one sided. Has he left his wife? Thought not. If a guy is soooo in love () nothing will stop him from being with his woman.

 

I can tell you I certainly know what love is NOT: Love is NOT what MBEG's MM has been showing her. She deserves far better, and I'm glad she's realizing that. Whether she stays in her marriage or not, I'm glad she realizes this MM that's been dragging her feelings through the dirt is a manipulating liar. Most of them are, IMO.

 

I have to agree with you, but no surprise there since you're one of the "voices of reason" on LS

 

:-)

[RedDevil66]

My advice, forget about having a relationship with the married guy or your husband, learn to have one with you.

 

You're going to fall to pcs and get sick from stress from doing this to yourself.

 

How about forgetting everyone but yourself.

[jennie-jennie]

JJ

God love you any other ow/om. But the difference is: an apologetic WS vs an unapologetic WS. Anne has realized affairs are what they are, (fanatasy) she is now in the real world, where the sun shines and her moral compass is no longer blinded. Do you realize if not for OW/OM there would be no need for this discussion. What is so infatuating about having something you shouldn't have, to covet what someone else has.. WS are broken, sad people. Why would you or any other OW/OM want that. I will never understand that. Relationships are hard enough without dealing with a new broken person who usually are in mid-life crisis or selfish sex addicts. God Love You all

 

You mean "an apologetic WS vs an unapologetic OW". But my point of view is not likely to change on Dday. I will still be the unapologetic OW. My opinion is firm and well thought through. It will not change because of discovery. Nobody owns my MM. He has given his heart to me, so he is mine to enjoy for as long as I have his heart.

 

I do believe my MM and I are both from dysfunctional families. As we say in my country "Alike children play best." Although how was I to see that he in any way was broken, when what is a problem for him is that he has not been in touch with his emotional self. When he was with me that is exactly what he was, in touch with his emotions.

 

I could not believe that any man could love like he did and still stay married. That was beyond my ability to comprehend. When I realized the problem, which I now see as a split between the emotional self and the will to do right, our relationship was way too emotionally deep already for me to be able to or even wish to terminate it.

 

There is one difference between me and MBEG, although she is right that we are/were both happy OW. I want my MM to go to IC to heal himself and thus in the future be able to choose between his wife and me. I have searched during our relationship for explanations to what is going on, I don't think MBEG needed to do that while her affair lasted. So while I am happy with my MM, I still hope and long for more.

 

The truth is that I was the one who was clearly broken when my relationship with MM started. He helped me heal. He was there all the time, consistent and loyal and supportive. Even my kids recognize that he has been good for me. I am a much more trusting and emotionally healthy person today than when our relationship started.

[bestplayer]

What I see happening in this thread, is posters pulling into two camps, each rooting for their favoured outcome - influenced, no doubt, by their own personal situations. That's fine as far as it goes, and I'm sure MBEG will take from it what helps, and ignore what doesn't.

 

But on the prospects for the two Rs themselves, I see much the same:

 

* MBEG's MM let her down, and now she can't trust him.

 

* MBEG let her H down, and now he can't trust her.

 

On the face of it, they look much the same in terms of chances for success. It reminds me of that north american story, about the two wolves, one representing the "good" side of a person's nature, and the other the "bad" side. When asked by his grandson which wolf wins, the old man replies, "the one you feed".

 

I reckon the R which stands a chance of surviving here is - whichever one MBEG chooses to nurture.

 

OWoman, "the one you feed " , honestly this is the best post i came across on this thread , so close to reality .

[donnamaybe]

OWoman, "the one you feed " , honestly this is the best post i came across on this thread , so close to reality .

 

Problem is, if she chooses to "feed" her R with this lying MM who tossed her under the bus, what good? He's still a liar who doesn't mind hurting her.

[califnan]

as it is well agreed upon on this board, that when faced with a dday you are forced to make a split second choice. you simply give up any chance of saving a marriage if you were to say "hmm. i think i want you but i need to see if i want him first." it doesnt work that way. so you choose, and you do your best. but as we all know those feelings do not just magically disappear for the AP, as well as the fact that they dont magically reappear for the BS. at the same time you are now facing the possible hurt from being thrown under the bus, the instant loss of someone who filled the majority of your thoughts and time for years, the guilt of seeing the hurt you've caused, and also mourning the loss of someone you loved. its a TON to deal with in an instant. its a mess of feelings to make sense of. but you have to make that choice if you think you may want your marriage.

 

and so in my mind i am still working through all of those thoughts and emotions while at the same time trying to get back my marriage.

 

Anne - i dont compare my situation to yours, although you obviously do. for whatever reason you were able to turn off the feelings for your AP and devote everything to your H in a very short amount of time. Here, 18 months out you are doing wonderful and I commend you for that. but I still think your situation may be the exception. I think it happened very very fast for you. Obviously the feelings involved were different from mine. I cannot move that quickly.

 

I gave the dog on a leash analogy because that is exactly how he is treating me. Terrible, horrible names in every conversation. He kicks me, kicks me, kicks me and because im "trying to prove my love" I am forced to sit there and take it, not respond and then try to kiss the ground he walks on and show my remorse and guilt. It is, in my mind abusive. he has shown ZERO love or affection for me since dday. BUT. i keep going because i still have some hope that we might get past this. that this current situation might change.

 

the chances are very very slim. i realize that. but until i have exhausted all efforts to fix this, no matter how he treats me i must give it my best.

 

as far as xMM is concerned. I'm leaving that alone for the moment. Do I love him? Yes. absolutley. Could I ever trust him or forgive him? I have no clue. To answer those questions would involve contact and conversation and I'm not doing that.

 

in the end, i miss both men very very much. i see the xMM as something that will never and could never be. but that doesnt mean the feelings have gone away. if i could turn them off with a switch i surely would. as it would be much easier to live without thoughts of him than the pain of missing a loved one.

 

----------------------

 

I know you love both men .. but in different ways .. And it seems that you are putting up with your husband's verbal abuse, because you know he has been hurting..

 

I feel as you do, that your marriage should take the priority .. But your husband does not trust you, and so is being abusive - and rightly, you have no reason to trust the mm.

 

It may seem of no value, but I would think that in order to Find Yourself again: If you do not have your own income - as with a job, it would be a good idea to take this time to do correspondence courses if necessary - in order to get a profession for yourself.. I say this because with a hurting abusive husband and an untrustworthy suitor: you seem to be between the "devil and the deep blue sea" - in the spirit - And You Are Worth More Than That.

[anne1707]

Anne - i dont compare my situation to yours, although you obviously do. for whatever reason you were able to turn off the feelings for your AP and devote everything to your H in a very short amount of time. Here, 18 months out you are doing wonderful and I commend you for that. but I still think your situation may be the exception. I think it happened very very fast for you. Obviously the feelings involved were different from mine. I cannot move that quickly.

 

 

Sigh...

 

I feel as if I am having to defend my stance on this thread today. I do not compare your situation to mine. There are similarities but that is all. And I did not turn my feelings off for the ex-OM in a very short time. Far from it. But I found ways of coping and tried to focus on my marriage and in time it became easier - much easier. It is still not plain sailing now for my H and I. It may be 18 months but to me we are still in recovery. There is no fast track approach to this. As I have said before, out of respect to my H, I will not post more details on my affair but if I did, I think you and others would realise that I was in a complete mess 18 months ago (and for several months after Dday) just as you are now.

 

I have never expected you to switch off your emotions - but have said that if you want your marriage then something does need to change. I am sure you can accept that. However I am not sure whether you are able to make that change and that is not meant as criticism at all. You have said that you are struggling in how you feel about the ex-MM compared to your H. I have stated on this thread more than once now that you need to try and figure out what you want and act on that. I have never said that you should reconcile with your H. Whatever you choose should be what feels right for you. However you do need to be completely honest with your H - I am sure you cannot disagree with this.

[moaningmyrtle]

What I see happening in this thread, is posters pulling into two camps, each rooting for their favoured outcome - influenced, no doubt, by their own personal situations. That's fine as far as it goes, and I'm sure MBEG will take from it what helps, and ignore what doesn't.

 

But on the prospects for the two Rs themselves, I see much the same:

 

* MBEG's MM let her down, and now she can't trust him.

 

* MBEG let her H down, and now he can't trust her.

 

On the face of it, they look much the same in terms of chances for success. It reminds me of that north american story, about the two wolves, one representing the "good" side of a person's nature, and the other the "bad" side. When asked by his grandson which wolf wins, the old man replies, "the one you feed".

 

I reckon the R which stands a chance of surviving here is - whichever one MBEG chooses to nurture.

 

Hear hear OWoman!

 

Naturally I'm also rooting for my favoured outcome (aren't we all) and that's for MBEG to demonstrate some honesty (with herself as much as anything) and for goodness sake choose a path and go all out for it.

 

At the moment, to extend your analogy, she's half-feeding both wolves thus keeping them both edgy and hungry; and enough not to starve either of them.

[whichwayisup]

and that's for MBEG to demonstrate some honesty (with herself as much as anything) and for goodness sake choose a path and go all out for it.

 

And this is why NC with her exMM has to happen now -FOR REAL this time. And, to have limited contact with her H. Obviously she can't have complete NC due to their children, but it can only BE about the kids when contact is necessary.

 

Being alone will allow you to have time to absorb everything that's happened in the past 8 months or so. Give you time to think, really think and be 'honest' with what you truly want. But being alone could be the best thing for now.

[silverplanets]

Maybe MBEG is just in a "natural" phase of confusion and uncertainty - learning to listen again (and trust) her heart, her mind and her feelings.

 

Sometimes we are exactly where we need to be - even if it doesn't appear to be the case.

 

MBEG I would say what I have always said ... this is about you .... not particularly what you want from your H or your xMM but what you want from your life and time on this planet.

 

If you were confused and not knowing you were confused then I would be worried - but it seems to me you are fully aware of your confusion and even able to distance yourself from it and discuss it without acting on impulse.

 

Surely this is a good place to be .. you are working it through and doing so rationally - exploring and analysing your thoughts and feelings as you go. OK at times you may feel your ship is not very sea worthy, but at least you are back in control of your ship and its course.

 

With respect to the original post you must trust yourself. If you honestly feel that emails from your xMM disturb your equilibrium then simply get them stopped and let yourself continue your exploration and growth.

 

Throwing you under the bus did you one big favour - it put you back in control of your ship (however ropey the condition of it ). Now that you've taken the helm and are beginning to get the feel of it again .. do you really want to give up the wheel to anyone else????

 

Steer your course and follow your path - and enjoy the journey

 

be safe

Chris

[ladydesigner]

Throwing you under the bus did you one big favour - it put you back in control of your ship (however ropey the condition of it ). Now that you've taken the helm and are beginning to get the feel of it again .. do you really want to give up the wheel to anyone else????

 

Great Analogy!!!!!

[Spark1111]

As a fBS, I can only speak to my own situation:

 

After DDAY, my WS's decision was to TRY to reconcile with me; out of duty, shame, and marital history, as he pined away for his OW, or the the fantasy of his affair feelings, or real feelings.

 

I intuited this in the marrow of my bones and it enraged me!

 

I too was verbally abusive, not because of the affair, but because he was casting me in the role of the fallback default choice, because he thought reconciling us was the right and ethical choice to make.

 

But his heart was elsewhere and I knew it!

 

GO F#$@! yourself!

 

I wanted a man who loved me for me! And if he didn't return to me for the right reason, that reason, he could stay away forever.

 

It was his split-self confusion and the inauthenticity of those feelings FOR ME that made me craziest.

 

I kept throwing him out because I hated the person I was becoming.

 

When he finally turned towards me, they dynamic changed drastically.

 

I am not excusing inexcusable behavior, but I would wager your husband KNOWS your heart is not truly with him.

[moaningmyrtle]

... As we say in my country "Alike children play best." ....

 

Apparently this is a uniquely Norwegian proverb. It seems you may have revealed your origins Jennie.

[moaningmyrtle]

I'm very uncomfortable with MBEG's description of her H's behaviour. I hadn't realised until this thread how it was.

 

To me this is not the "normal" behaviour of a BS who really wants to reconcile.

 

I admit at d-day (and this is very difficult for me to say) there was a part of me that thought: "I really want H to suffer, so I'll go through the motions of reconciling, let him work his bum off and then dump him miserable and lonely once I have ensured that the OW is totally ruined, and that our kids hate him and want absolutely nothing to do with him or her".

 

But these were just thoughts of a very destroyed person and ultimately I couldn't act on them. Quite possibly they are common among BSs. I haven't seen any other BSs admit this but certainly the descriptions of BSs given by some OWs seem to fit that their thoughts are similar.

 

I realised very quickly after d-day that I couldn't "pretend" to reconcile; I either had to do genuinely do it or not be with my H.

 

If this behaviour, which does sound abusive, is out of character for your H then maybe this is a possibility. If he's been doing it for several months now then maybe it is a concerted path of action. I suggest you talk to him about it.

 

As a BW I knew that in order to save our marriage I had to support and acknowledger his efforts. He still gets continual praise from me for his efforts and we are very intimate and affectionate. It is not an act for me and I don't think it is for him either. If either of us were behaving as your H is (ie distant and unaffectionate) then 16 months later (ie now) we would not still be together. You both have to want to make your M work; you can't do it on your own.

[califnan]

As a fBS, I can only speak to my own situation:

 

After DDAY, my WS's decision was to TRY to reconcile with me; out of duty, shame, and marital history, as he pined away for his OW, or the the fantasy of his affair feelings, or real feelings.

 

I intuited this in the marrow of my bones and it enraged me!

 

I too was verbally abusive, not because of the affair, but because he was casting me in the role of the fallback default choice, because he thought reconciling us was the right and ethical choice to make.

 

But his heart was elsewhere and I knew

 

O F#$@! yourself!

 

I wanted a man who loved me for me! And if he didn't return to me for the right reason, that reason, he could stay away forever.

 

It was his split-self confusion and the inauthenticity of those feelings FOR ME that made me craziest.

 

I kept throwing him out because I hated the person I was becoming.

 

When he finally turned towards me, they dynamic changed drastically.

 

I am not excusing inexcusable behavior, but I would wager your husband KNOWS your heart is not truly with him.

 

 

Yes that seems true Spark.. Her husband doesn't trust her, and she has no reason to trust the exMM. Seems like her only recourse is to take this time to take education (if need be) .. and to try to make her own way, financially .. We are all too hole - to just settle on a spouse..

[jennie-jennie]

Apparently this is a uniquely Norwegian proverb. It seems you may have revealed your origins Jennie.

 

Whatever. Believe what you want. I can't understand what is so interesting about it.

[moaningmyrtle]

Whatever. Believe what you want. I can't understand what is so interesting about it.

 

Umm you are the one who mentioned the proverb from Norway.

 

As I recall you made a big deal of not wanting to say which is the "my country" to which you frequently refer. In fact come to think of it, you frequently compare America to your country. Some of us who are also not from America might find it interesting to compare different cultures.

[jennie-jennie]

I'm very uncomfortable with MBEG's description of her H's behaviour. I hadn't realised until this thread how it was.

 

To me this is not the "normal" behaviour of a BS who really wants to reconcile.

 

I admit at d-day (and this is very difficult for me to say) there was a part of me that thought: "I really want H to suffer, so I'll go through the motions of reconciling, let him work his bum off and then dump him miserable and lonely once I have ensured that the OW is totally ruined, and that our kids hate him and want absolutely nothing to do with him or her".

 

But these were just thoughts of a very destroyed person and ultimately I couldn't act on them. Quite possibly they are common among BSs. I haven't seen any other BSs admit this but certainly the descriptions of BSs given by some OWs seem to fit that their thoughts are similar.

 

I realised very quickly after d-day that I couldn't "pretend" to reconcile; I either had to do genuinely do it or not be with my H.

 

If this behaviour, which does sound abusive, is out of character for your H then maybe this is a possibility. If he's been doing it for several months now then maybe it is a concerted path of action. I suggest you talk to him about it.

 

As a BW I knew that in order to save our marriage I had to support and acknowledger his efforts. He still gets continual praise from me for his efforts and we are very intimate and affectionate. It is not an act for me and I don't think it is for him either. If either of us were behaving as your H is (ie distant and unaffectionate) then 16 months later (ie now) we would not still be together. You both have to want to make your M work; you can't do it on your own.

 

Thank you for sharing this, Myrtle. Very brave and honest of you.

 

I too am very concerned about the behaviour of your husband, MBEG. It sounds very abusive. You should not let this continue.

[fooled once]

MBEG,

 

The relationship you had with your H will never be the same again - PRE affair.

 

i want us to return to how life was before the A.

 

It can be better - look at Anne's relationship with her H now. It is stronger, more respectful and more honest.

 

in MY mind, you need to pick (1) Your M; (2) the MM; (3) NONE of them.

 

But I would do it soon, as I am not sure how much longer your H is going to wait around.

 

He shouldn't be abusive to you; you and H really should, IN MY VIEW, be in marriage counseling together. He has major trust issues with you and he just may never get over them.

 

Regarding the "self split" thoughts, I personally don't buy it -- to ME, it seems like just another excuse to fence sit and not make a decision OR an excuse to 'misbehave". Almost like "the dog ate my homework".

 

I HOPE you do find clarify. I hope you come to a decision, sooner rather than later.

 

GOOD LUCK to you!!

[Heather1]

MBEG....I relate most of the time to you, but I never had a dday.

 

I'm sorry, but from what I'm reading about your H I think that's a bad route to take. Just my advice. He's got one up on you, you're the one who caused all of this & you'll spend forever making it up to him. Sounds like a hard life. You're already separated, why do you want to go back? Because it's the "right thing?"

 

Then there's xOM. I wouldn't mess w/ him until his divorce is final, and then you have a shot....and it sounds like you do have a shot. If you give him an opening now, he'll waffle & go back & forth forever. Take a time out w/ these men. So he threw you under the bus? What was he supposed to do given the situation where he didn't have time to make a decision. He seemed like he treated you well before that.

 

I don't know, this sounds like you have a fork in the road.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

i havent talked much about H, because as ive said many times i consider my M personal and private. i talk about it to him, to my close personal friends and in IC. but i shared a little bit to give some insight into how things are going. why im struggling giving it 100%. hes tough on me right now. very very tough. the names he calls me could never be repeated here. but still, i hope we can get through this and make it work.

 

i still have not responded to xmm altough i have re-read the entire email. im still not convinced he wont hurt me again, and as i see it i cannot consider this as an option until i have exhausted all efforts in fixing my m.

 

i wont lie about my feelings. i love both of them. after his explanation of dday and the events since then i no longer feel the pain related to him throwing me under the bus and choosing her. i guess i finally have the answers ive been searching for.

 

after 200 some reponses, i guess the only thing i was ever looking for from this post was an understanding of why i feel indifferent to him when after so long i hoped and prayed he would return.

 

i dont see it as a fork in the road because at the moment i still do not consider xmm as an option.

 

its just a terrible place to be. the only thing i can say is that if i claim to feel a certain way, then thats how i really feel. please dont tell me i feel something else. i have no reason to lie about my feelings. i am confused, but am certain about how i feel inside.

 

thans for everyone's posts.

[It_Is_What_It_Is]

MBEG, you are torn. After reading your postings, I agree that you are so confused. If your H is behaving the way he is now, your question would be why is he behaving such. Was he like that before the A? If not, then the A is the operative cause. If he makes it easy for you (not saying his ways is acceptable, but then this is subjective), then the moment you settle into the marriage, you would feel that I am not sure I really want my H. Now he is making the road he tough for you - probably not deliberately, next time you (if there is one with H) would appreciate him more.

 

He must be really hurt. Just as you were hurt when OM throw you under the bus. His mind must have raced million miles. The destruction of his family. What to do with the kids. The house. The shame. The life you had together. The good times and the bad. Memory lane. It is a shame it happened, but then you have to honestly mend your heart to ensure that you are not all over the place. Not this talk about I love both men. Your H is not stupid, he must have noticed it from the small talks, and that would set him back all the time.

 

The talk about wanting to fix your M, and if it doesn't work then looks like you have the OM as a fall back should be out of your mind. I understand that it is the talk of a confused woman, but then again it is a thought which is possible to be a reality.

 

I wish you all the best. There are good advice here for you to take.

[pureinheart]

i havent talked much about H, because as ive said many times i consider my M personal and private. i talk about it to him, to my close personal friends and in IC. but i shared a little bit to give some insight into how things are going. why im struggling giving it 100%. hes tough on me right now. very very tough. the names he calls me could never be repeated here. but still, i hope we can get through this and make it work.

 

 

You got my thoughts and prayers...no wonder things have been so difficult...my God girl, my heart goes out to you.

 

It will be ok and you will make the right decision....

 

I have to say this...k...and not trying to be out of line here...it is never ok to abuse...like one poster said to me was that I had become numb to abuse basically and they were right.

 

It is possible your H thinks he has the right to abuse you...he doesn't.

 

(((((((((huggggs!))))))))))

[anne1707]

its just a terrible place to be. the only thing i can say is that if i claim to feel a certain way, then thats how i really feel. please dont tell me i feel something else. i have no reason to lie about my feelings. i am confused, but am certain about how i feel inside.

 

 

MBEG

 

I don't think anybody here is telling you how you feel - we can all see that you are torn about the differing emotions you feel for your H and the ex-MM and it is a nightmare for you. However whilst you may be certain about how you feel, you do not seem certain about what you want and this is what you need to resolve before you can make any real difference to this situation.

 

If you are going to stay with your H then it must be because you really want to do this and not because it is the right thing to do. If you choose the ex-MM, you need to figure out whether you can trust him after all he has done to you. And then maybe you could choose neither, deciding that you need to heal on your own and rebuild your life on your terms. It's all your choice but the longer this goes on, the more you are torturing yourself.

 

With regard to your H's treatment of you, it does sound abusive to me. Whilst it is understandable that he has distanced himself from you and is possibly testing you, there is no need to take it as far as it sounds. If you are trying to make things work with him then he has to try and work at it too. It cannot all be you.

[pureinheart]

Maybe MBEG is just in a "natural" phase of confusion and uncertainty - learning to listen again (and trust) her heart, her mind and her feelings.

 

Sometimes we are exactly where we need to be - even if it doesn't appear to be the case.

 

MBEG I would say what I have always said ... this is about you .... not particularly what you want from your H or your xMM but what you want from your life and time on this planet.

 

If you were confused and not knowing you were confused then I would be worried - but it seems to me you are fully aware of your confusion and even able to distance yourself from it and discuss it without acting on impulse.

 

Surely this is a good place to be .. you are working it through and doing so rationally - exploring and analysing your thoughts and feelings as you go. OK at times you may feel your ship is not very sea worthy, but at least you are back in control of your ship and its course.

 

With respect to the original post you must trust yourself. If you honestly feel that emails from your xMM disturb your equilibrium then simply get them stopped and let yourself continue your exploration and growth.

 

Throwing you under the bus did you one big favour - it put you back in control of your ship (however ropey the condition of it ). Now that you've taken the helm and are beginning to get the feel of it again .. do you really want to give up the wheel to anyone else????

 

Steer your course and follow your path - and enjoy the journey

 

be safe

Chris

 

Chris....your the best!