They said it would happen.

[califnan]

It is impossible to "un-know" something once we've discovered it. Much like Adam and Eve, they could not be ignorant again. Even if things do not pan out with the AP, I think A's forever change the lens through which a WS sees their spouse (and also how a BS sees the WS). SOmetimes that's a good thing, but often it is not, which I why I think so many A's end in divorce. Once we know what is possible, and desire it very much, it's hard to avoid the pull to seek it out (with or without the AP).

 

I think many divorces and remarriages happen, because it is easier. A "fresh start" seems easier - but may wind up being more difficult ..

[It_Is_What_It_Is]

I have read and followed most of MBEG postings. I was critical of her. Now I read that she is working on her M. I was pleased. However, after reading subsequent posting about her feelings for the other man I became despondent. She is torn. Anne1707 and Fallen Angel are right. What else can I say.

[wheelwright]

I have read and followed most of MBEG postings. I was critical of her. Now I read that she is working on her M. I was pleased. However, after reading subsequent posting about her feelings for the other man I became despondent. She is torn. Anne1707 and Fallen Angel are right. What else can I say.

 

I don't feel despondent, but we can all see how split MBEG still is. Hope she is reading the threads on split-self As and how she needs to heal the split in herself.

 

And MBEG, I think you said many moons back that you had told your AP that you didn't want to leave your M for him. I just think this makes his behaviour at DDay more understandable.

 

Does xAP have kids? If so the imminent break up of his family unit must way heavily on his heart.

 

If you do decide to speak to him, I would ask him hypothetically what he thinks he would do if his W wanted to give it another go? This might help you see how he's feeling.

 

Wishing you the best in working through all this.

[Fallen Angel]

Yup. She may enjoy (which may feel like "love") the bits and snatches of fantasy times they share, but until they share an entire RELATIONSHIP - ALL of it - she hasn't a clue what it would be like to try to "love" that person. Same for a man involved with a MW.

 

Again, let's not confuse love with good sex.

 

Donna,

 

Just because you can't tell the difference between an orgasm and love, doesn't mean the rest of us can't.

 

right back at ya!

[donnamaybe]

Donna,

 

Just because you can't tell the difference between an orgasm and love, doesn't mean the rest of us can't.

 

right back at ya!

 

Sorry. But nice try.

 

I can tell the difference. That's why I wouldn't get with a MM in an attempt to have what others know as a relationship.

[Fallen Angel]

Sorry. But nice try.

 

I can tell the difference. That's why I wouldn't get with a MM in an attempt to have what others know as a relationship.

 

Oddly enough, I don't attempt to have a relationship either. I have a relationship. One in which I am loved deeply, and one in which I love deeply. :love:

 

LMAO @ you telling people that they don't know what love is.. I am curious as who gave you the window into anyone's soul but your own...to be able to know what is in the heart of other people? Cause if I had that kind of inside track, I would take that show on the road and be filthy rich!!

[donnamaybe]

It's an attempt when it's only one sided. Has he left his wife? Thought not. If a guy is soooo in love () nothing will stop him from being with his woman.

 

I can tell you I certainly know what love is NOT: Love is NOT what MBEG's MM has been showing her. She deserves far better, and I'm glad she's realizing that. Whether she stays in her marriage or not, I'm glad she realizes this MM that's been dragging her feelings through the dirt is a manipulating liar. Most of them are, IMO.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

fallen - i have not taken offense to ANYTHING that you said, quite the contrary.

 

short on time...i'll write some in a bit.

[fooled once]

And by this you mean that a woman can not know if she is in love with a man she is having an affair with?

 

I beg to differ, that would be like telling someone that they can't know if they are in love with a single person they are dating. Just because he doesn't live in my home, doesn't mean I don't know the man he is, and it doesn't mean I am not in love with him.

 

I know who he is, day in day out, even the mundane things. And Yes, we do occasionally have disagreements. He doesn't have to live under my roof for that... that is just silly.

 

But this isn't about YOU FA. This is about MBEG. She hasn't played house with this MM the way you have (I don't mean that derogatory, but you yourself have said you and he are like an old married couple). MBEG hasn't done that or gone through that because they were too busy sneaking around. Her kids didn't see her sleeping with him, doing family things. You are making this about you and it isn't.

 

I agree with Donna.

 

I also believe MBEG will give it another go with this guy. The ONLY reason he is 'free', I would bet, is because his wife got tired of his crap. SHE kicked him out - I bet. He didn't willingly go.

 

And the fact that MBEG seems to think - from what I gather from her posts - that he and her are destined to be together because they are just soooo in love .... her H deserves better.

 

He deserves the Honest To God truth from her. She loves the other guy - the one who tossed her under the bus, not the guy who has stood beside her and taken care of their kids because she was too racked with grief over the end of an affair. I mean, this guy deserves a medal for all that he has put up with - he has watched his wife MOURN the demise of an affair and he has tried to make their marriage work.

 

We can see from MBEGs posts that what she seems to care about is this loser and at this point, maybe they should go to each other. At least their spouses would be released from their marriages and they can go on and find new people to love and trust and spend their lives with.

[bittersweet memories]

I have read and followed most of MBEG postings. I was critical of her. Now I read that she is working on her M. I was pleased. However, after reading subsequent posting about her feelings for the other man I became despondent. She is torn. Anne1707 and Fallen Angel are right. What else can I say.

 

Same here!!! I am actually feeling really sorry for her poor husband. How sad!

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I wonder if MBEG could just "date" her MM? No taliking about the R or the A, just catch up a few times a week. I also wonder what she might think if he offered her only that.

[2sunny]

I wonder if MBEG could just "date" her MM? No taliking about the R or the A, just catch up a few times a week. I also wonder what she might think if he offered her only that.

 

why would she complicate things now when she said she was happy with her H and working on her M?

[mybrowneyedgirl]

i owe it to my husband and my children to give it a shot. its a simple as that. but by no means is he some "poor husband" that is following me around like a puppy dog begging me to come back. its really not like that at all. he wants out. has returned zero affection, any sort of anything since the affair. he says hes willing to try (even though separated) by allowing me to kiss his behind and show him what he means. i would describe it something like a dog on a leash that is trying to prove his love for his owner after biting him on the leg, the dog realizes it was wrong to bite, wants the owners affection but the owner pushes them away time and time again. the owner wants the dog to keep coming back by not allowing any slack in the leash, but doesnt give any praise or even attempt to pet the dog. that is what im dealing with at home.

 

but...i realize he is the way he is because of my actions. and i want us to return to how life was before the A. i still remember him as the loving caring man he was before i hurt him. he knows that i was deeply in love with the MM. he knows my feelings have changed for xMM now, and that is 100% true. so together, with my H we are taking it day by day in an attempt to see if we can overcome this and get things back. there has been some progress made. but hes by no means this doting husband that i'm stringing along.

 

and all i can say about MM is that i simply dont feel the way i once did. the trust is gone. there is tons of hurt there. yes his wife did choose to divorce him, but according to him it was because he couldnt give her what she needed because he was still in love with me. i know this is true, because of mutual friends who have confirmed this.

 

so really, what FA advised me to do was probably a good thing. he went and worked on his M and realized that he didnt have the feelings for her that needed to be there to resolve it. the problem is now, im not sure i could even open my heart or mind enough to hear him out.

 

and so, i continue to try to win my husband back. there is the slightest bit of interest but honestly after so many months hes only just starting to give me that chance. it just so happens its at the same time that xMM decided to come back around.

 

i havent responded to him, the reason being is that since my H is at least willing to try to "date" i need to go with it and do my best. and for whoever suggested that I date xMM thats simply not the case. I'm only "dating" H because thats all hes allowing. if it were up to me he would be back and home and in my bed so i could have more opportunities to show my feelings. hes unwilling and so im doing the best i can.

 

and so maybe i havent seemed head over heels in love with my H...but its partially because he isnt allowing it. i can only do my best with him but its hard to give 100% of my thoughts to a man that isnt receptive. thats still not enough for me to give up completely, but at the same time not enough for me to focus all of my attention. i still spend every night alone, struggle every day to care for my children without any solid evidence that my H is really even an option.

Edited February 25, 2010 by mybrowneyedgirl

[mybrowneyedgirl]

and fooled i have never thought we were destined to be together because he was soooo in love with me.

 

in fact after dday i thought the EXACT opposite. ive cried so many tears because his actions showed he didnt love me, while the entire time of the A i believed him with all of my heart.

 

now, so many months later to hear that he claims to have loved me the entire time...yes, it does make me second guess things. i truly thought he never loved me to begin with, that it was all a bunch of BS during the A. thats why he hurt my heart so much, because i felt it was all a lie.

 

so no, i dont think he loved me soooo much or that we are destined to be together. but what i do think now after his email is. "oh my gosh, maybe he did actually have feelings for me."

 

and being racked with grief over the affair also has much to do with my H. you see, the more hurt i feel from xMM, the more guilt and remorse i feel over destroying my M and hurting my H. it makes me feel like a fool to throw it all away over someone who mislead me.

Edited February 25, 2010 by mybrowneyedgirl

[2sunny]

and fooled i have never thought we were destined to be together because he was soooo in love with me.

 

in fact after dday i thought the EXACT opposite. ive cried so many tears because his actions showed he didnt love me, while the entire time of the A i believed him with all of my heart.

 

now, so many months later to hear that he claims to have loved me the entire time...yes, it does make me second guess things. i truly thought he never loved me to begin with, that it was all a bunch of BS during the A. thats why he hurt my heart so much, because i felt it was all a lie.

 

so no, i dont think he loved me soooo much or that we are destined to be together. but what i do think now after his email is. "oh my gosh, maybe he did actually have feelings for me."

 

and being racked with grief over the affair also has much to do with my H. you see, the more hurt i feel from xMM, the more guilt and remorse i feel over destroying my M and hurting my H. it makes me feel like a fool to throw it all away over someone who mislead me.

 

logically thinking - he was misleading you.

 

he said he loved you (which may or may not have been true)

 

a man/woman says these things to get from the person what they intend to get

 

when push came to shove - he sided with his wife and turned his back on you

 

when things didn't work out with his wife - he moved to the soft landing place he thought might still be pining over him - you

 

the fact still remains - he's selfish... used you for what he wanted - tossed you aside when he had a chance to choose - and expects you to understand when he came running back.

 

i hope this looks as unappealing as it sounds - because the way it played out - by him - isn't what a man in love would be offering and doing for the woman of his dreams. it's what a man does when he's so afraid to be alone that he's willing to hurt everyone he ever said he "loved."

 

his actions speak volumes for his lack of character - and that would never be enough for me to find him even remotely appealing as a friend or lover.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

very true. thats why i havent responded to him. that doesnt mean my mind isnt racing. and so, thats why im here.

[Jeff1962]

no i did love him. but i think if he loved me he never could have walked away from me. i couldnt have done it to him, i was forced to. so if he loved me as strongly as he claimed during the A he wouldnt have had the strength to walk away from me.

 

Dear woman. If this man truly loved you, he would have divorced his wife right away and clung to you.

[whichwayisup]

I feel for you BEG. The position you're in now is not easy and the road ahead is going to be really difficult.

 

Do your ABSOLUTE best to stay away from exMM. Don't talk to him, don't ask him questions about his life, or what's going on..And, don't discuss ANYTHING with him about your life.

 

As for your H - Take it one day at a time and let him call the shots. Keep working on you, fixing yourself...

 

Oh, there are ways outside of the bedroom to prove to your H that you do love him and have 'chosen' him. Just need to be creative and rememeber why you got married.

 

I hope you and your H can work through everything.

[2sunny]

i think you're doing a great job MBEG! stay strong and stay focused on your M becoming a happy place for you and your H!

[whichwayisup]

so if he loved me as strongly as he claimed during the A he wouldnt have had the strength to walk away from me.

 

The same could be said for you too. You didn't leave your H for him. He didn't leave his wife for you.

 

Was it just the affair you both wanted to keep going? Stay married and have eachother too?

 

It just seems like such a big waste of time, so many have been hurt.. All for what? Big ego feeds? Being loved/desired by someone else? I think what you and your exMM are doing and feeling is the same thing, yet you can't see that.

 

Neither of you truly loved one another to give up your spouses, your lives, your kids, for eachother. If you two were totally inlove and couldn't live without one another, then the D's would have happened a LONG TIME AGO and done as quickly and painlessly as possible without the lies, drama and betraying.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

i see that. i never would have left my H for him. but yet it seems now, after dday, that the tables have turned and an A isnt an option. we're forced to make that decision that we both agreed we would never make.

[whichwayisup]

So I know I've mentioned this to you before, but it seems alot of this is ego related. You wanted him to leave his wife for you, prove his love to you, but you weren't ever planning on leaving your husband. Now he's divorcing, it honestly now doesn't matter if his wife got fed up and kicked him out, if he decided he couldn't take it anymore putting up with the stuff at home and left. He didn't 'choose' you and somehow you need to come to grips with this, accept it as it is and let..it..go. Move on and tell yourself it doesn't matter. Stop analyzing this and that, the why's the how's etc.. If you want to move on to the next step with your H, you gotta let go completely and turn off and tune out exMM forever.

 

My one concern is, you might change your mind in afew months and want to give it go with your exMM, just as you and your H make progress.. Either because exMM will contact you want to see you, talk to you and all of the game crap will start up again.

[califnan]

Thank you for the update on the relationship with your husband and your feelings about the mm ..

 

I think you could have been right regarding your senses about the mm's feelings about you during the affair .. It was probably a selfish move on his part at the time.. and he may be selfish now, in wanting the two of you together - rather than complete love - for anyone but himself..

 

Sounds like your husband's pride has been hurt so badly that he is having a hard time giving you a break .. or that he just cannot stop thinking about you and the mm together .. And it also sounds like you are doing all that you can at this time..

 

The good news is, the ball seems to be in their court. But you are quite right in continuing to save your marriage.. If there is an opportunity, try to do some things for yourself - things that interest you - could be creativity in the direction of cooking, the arts, exercise, walking etc etc .. I only mention this because even though you have apologized to your husband, and repented, and are trying to make things right again, he seems to be making things hard on you .. So in addition to trying to continue to be a good wife, do some uplifting things for yourself as well - guilt time should be about over...

[anne1707]

i owe it to my husband and my children to give it a shot. its a simple as that. but by no means is he some "poor husband" that is following me around like a puppy dog begging me to come back. its really not like that at all. he wants out. has returned zero affection, any sort of anything since the affair. he says hes willing to try (even though separated) by allowing me to kiss his behind and show him what he means. i would describe it something like a dog on a leash that is trying to prove his love for his owner after biting him on the leg, the dog realizes it was wrong to bite, wants the owners affection but the owner pushes them away time and time again. the owner wants the dog to keep coming back by not allowing any slack in the leash, but doesnt give any praise or even attempt to pet the dog. that is what im dealing with at home.

 

Whilst you seem to be trying to make it work with your H, it bothers me how you describe your H above. Your analogy to a dog on a leash suggests that your H is treating you as a subservient pet and that in his view you have to fight for every piece of affection you may get and be grateful. It sounds quite derogatory towards your H to me.

 

You DO have to fight for this man if you want him. You have to prove your love for him, you have to prove to him that he is not second choice, you have to prove to him that being together is the right thing. At this stage, your H owes you nothing and that is all he can give you. You need to realise that he has been hurt beyond words throughout all this. You have talked about your love for the ex-MM and how you trusted that man more than anyone else and then the agony you have felt when he dumped you. Well isn't that how your H has been feeling about you? But even worse then because he has had to watch you crying over another man. He is trying to protect himself which is very understandable.

 

You need to be incredibly patient with him. You need to show your love in little day to day things but also show him that you can be trusted (though he may never trust you fully again). Open yourself up fully to him. Do not hide anything from him in connection with the ex-MM. I know I have mentioned it before but I am not clear whether you have told your H that the ex-MM is getting divorced. I think you should tell him because it is better that your H finds out from you now rather than in a few weeks or finds out from someone else. Otherwise he will then wonder why you did not tell, were you talking to the ex-MM, were you planning to leave etc. His mind will be in complete overload trying to figure out what is going on and what he can believe.

 

Just think of it this way. All the pain you have said you have felt - he has felt even worse. All the trust you have said the ex-MM would need to rebuild - you need to rebuild with your H though from completely destroyed foundations. If you are going to work on your marriage, you need to put yourself in to it 100% and stop focussing on the ex-MM. Every time you focus on the ex-MM, you weaken the efforts made into your marriage.

 

Finally, you need to stop romanticising your affair. It was just an affair - that has been proved by the fact that neither of you left your spouses. Stop going on about how you loved each other so much and that e.g. someone like me who has reconciled with their H must not have really loved the AP (I could post about my feelings at the time of the A but choose not to because my H posts here and I respect him too much to put him through that). That is just trying to excuse yourself for still being in this situation. You need to stop wallowing and start working on your future. It is you that has to show that you are wanting to work on this before your H can really decide whether he is prepared to or not.

[boomboom63]

Anne - this is spot on

 

MBEG - please read this again and again and again. ((((hugs))))