They said it would happen.

[jennie-jennie]

I don't feel despondent, but we can all see how split MBEG still is. Hope she is reading the threads on split-self As and how she needs to heal the split in herself.

 

I agree. And not only do I think MBEG is a split self, but her MM is as well. Thank you, MBEG, for writing so truthfully about your split emotions, allowing us to see what is going on in your life.

[Getting_stronger]

The way I see it, there are two men here. (and this is reflected in my recent experience). A man who chose you, committed to you, is stable, genuine, maybe not romantic but deeply loving, maybe not attentive but has real concern for your wellbeing. Then there is another man- flashy, romantic, exciting, titillating. This is the cold twinkle of a diamond. Its lovely to look at but there is no warmth.

 

Choose the man who chose you.

[jennie-jennie]

Finally, you need to stop romanticising your affair. It was just an affair - that has been proved by the fact that neither of you left your spouses. Stop going on about how you loved each other so much and that e.g. someone like me who has reconciled with their H must not have really loved the AP (I could post about my feelings at the time of the A but choose not to because my H posts here and I respect him too much to put him through that). That is just trying to excuse yourself for still being in this situation. You need to stop wallowing and start working on your future. It is you that has to show that you are wanting to work on this before your H can really decide whether he is prepared to or not.

 

I am sure you loved your AP, Anne. What you did not have is what MBEG has, an option to choose her MM should she want to. I believe (and you are of course entitled to say I am wrong) that your affair ended mainly because of its own dynamics. Your OM had fallen in love with another woman. That is very different from MBEG's affair which ended due to their Dday.

 

What has been proven by the fact that neither MBEG nor her MM left their spouses and by their flip-flop emotions after Dday is that they are split, they are having a split self affair. It says nothing about their love for each other. It is sad that MBEG did not understand that the split self was the reason her MM threw her under the bus, not that he did not love her.

[jennie-jennie]

The way I see it, there are two men here. (and this is reflected in my recent experience). A man who chose you, committed to you, is stable, genuine, maybe not romantic but deeply loving, maybe not attentive but has real concern for your wellbeing. Then there is another man- flashy, romantic, exciting, titillating. This is the cold twinkle of a diamond. Its lovely to look at but there is no warmth.

 

Choose the man who chose you.

 

And where in MBEG's description above about how her husband treats her does it sound like he chose her?

 

"Choose the man who chose you." Hmm, I guess the future will tell if that would be MBEG's MM.

[anne1707]

I am sure you loved your AP, Anne. What you did not have is what MBEG has, an option to choose her MM should she want to. I believe (and you are of course entitled to say I am wrong) that your affair ended mainly because of its own dynamics. Your OM had fallen in love with another woman. That is very different from MBEG's affair which ended due to their Dday.

 

Yes you are wrong. You have come to incorrect conclusions to suit your argument. I also fail to see the need to discuss my affair in this thread.

Edited February 25, 2010 by anne1707

[JAGeezer]

And where in MBEG's description above about how her husband treats her does it sound like he chose her?

 

"Choose the man who chose you." Hmm, I guess the future will tell if that would be MBEG's MM.

 

Yes, her H chose her, until she broke her wedding vows and showed herself to be utterly unworthy of the promises he made to her so long ago on their wedding day. If she wants him back it's all on her now. All of it...at least until she can convince him that she's sorry....and so far she hasn't even convinced me that she's sorry. She can't sell "sorry" while she's playing the sort of game that she's playing. Her own words on this board give lie to the idea that she's honestly sorry about anything other than being caught. She can't do "sorry" and keep fostering these mixed emotions about her ex-AP, and she certainly can't keep doing it as long as the "me first/if it feels good do it no matter who you have to walk on" crowd on this forum keeps fostering her emotional immaturity. Her husband doesn't sound like a stupid man, so it's no wonder that he isn't buying it.

 

MBEG This is before morning coffee, so forgive any rough edges. Call this "Tough Love II". I've been watching you post, and I have to tell you, this is Junior High School level angst. You're like the donkey that starved to death between two piles of hay. You have two mutually exclusive paths in laid out in front of you. You cannot pursue them both at the same time to any degree whatsoever. The reason you aren't "getting it back" with your H is that you aren't committed. You're only paying lip-service, giving the appearance of commitment, while still wallowing in self pity over the lying two-timing home-wrecking schmuck you had the A with. So pick a path and set your mind and heart to the fact that, right or wrong, the other path is utterly and completely closed to you.

 

Off-hand, from your description, you have better odds of winning the lottery than you have of scoring a happily ever after with either man. The low odds with the OM is just the way the stats read. The low odds with your H are all your own doing. If you're going to have any chance at all, you need to go all in, right now. If you could gamble your marriage on the fleeting pleasure of the A, then you certainly have what it takes to gamble any fantasized future with the OM on winning your husband back. Pick a path and get on it. I don't care which. It may be the wrong path, but that's life. Regrets are a part of the deal. But none of this is going to happen until you leave Never-Never Land behind....and right now you're still stuck there with Peter and the Lost Boys. Because right now it doesn't sound like you want your M back. It sounds like you want the cake-eating days back. Both your M to an oblivious and loving H and the A with the hot gas-lighting MM. And I have to tell you, that it's never ever going to happen.

 

I'm just curious. On D-Day your said you had to make an instantaneous choice to try and save your marriage. You made it sound like you felt you were being put upon by having to make that choice right then and there. Didn't you ever examine the worst case scenario? Didn't you ever wonder, "What will I do if we get busted?" Not once in three years of cheating? Did you imagine that it would just go on forever?

 

General comment to the thread: On the issue of love vs in love, I read an interesting paper the other day. They wired up the brains of people that believed themselves to be in love and discovered something interesting. It seems that when you believe yourself to be in love, the part of your brain governing ethical behavior gets suppressed. It explains a lot about why we're all here, doesn't it?

[OWoman]

What I see happening in this thread, is posters pulling into two camps, each rooting for their favoured outcome - influenced, no doubt, by their own personal situations. That's fine as far as it goes, and I'm sure MBEG will take from it what helps, and ignore what doesn't.

 

But on the prospects for the two Rs themselves, I see much the same:

 

* MBEG's MM let her down, and now she can't trust him.

 

* MBEG let her H down, and now he can't trust her.

 

On the face of it, they look much the same in terms of chances for success. It reminds me of that north american story, about the two wolves, one representing the "good" side of a person's nature, and the other the "bad" side. When asked by his grandson which wolf wins, the old man replies, "the one you feed".

 

I reckon the R which stands a chance of surviving here is - whichever one MBEG chooses to nurture.

[jennie-jennie]

Finally, you need to stop romanticising your affair. It was just an affair - that has been proved by the fact that neither of you left your spouses. Stop going on about how you loved each other so much and that e.g. someone like me who has reconciled with their H must not have really loved the AP (I could post about my feelings at the time of the A but choose not to because my H posts here and I respect him too much to put him through that). That is just trying to excuse yourself for still being in this situation. You need to stop wallowing and start working on your future. It is you that has to show that you are wanting to work on this before your H can really decide whether he is prepared to or not.

 

Yes you are wrong. You have come to incorrect conclusions to suit your argument. I also fail to see the need to discuss my affair in this thread.

 

As you can see above you were the one who compared your affair to MBEG's in the first place, which was the reason I commented on it.

 

(And I can't see how I am wrong being that the OM left you for another woman whom he has now married. Going back to your wife to try and make your marriage work versus moving on to a new love are two entirely different dynamics.)

 

You have been very persistent that MBEG choose your way of action, when in fact your stories do not compare at all. That is what I am reacting against.

Edited February 25, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[anne1707]

As you can see above you were the one who compared your affair to MBEG's in the first place, which was the reason I commented on it.

 

(And I can't see how I am wrong being that the OM left you for another woman whom he has now married.)

 

MBEG made a comment about WS who had reconciled with their spouse. I took that as a reference to me so I responded.

 

The ex-OM is getting married this year. I don't see why he cannot have a relationship with someone else. Not my problem anymore and still not at all relevant to this thread. Please stop referring to my history when it is not relevant.

 

Your facts on my affair are wrong and it feels as if you are doing that to try and state that my posts are not worth considering or lack an understanding of affairs and thir impact on marriage.

 

MBEG has stated that she wants to save her marriage and I have posted advice to that effect.

[jennie-jennie]

Anne, i have no problem with you posting and welcome your advice. My only request is for you to not tell me how I feel when i say differently. You simply have been off on this part of things the entire time.

 

Well, it seems like MBEG shares my opinion on your comments to her.

 

Please stop referring to my history when it is not relevant.

 

It is relevant because you continue to see MBEG's situation from the perspective of what was true for your story, not for hers. She is not at the same place as you were when your affair ended. Please try to be a bit more open-minded concerning this.

[jennie-jennie]

MBEG has stated that she wants to save her marriage and I have posted advice to that effect.

 

A person who is so split between the BS and the MM will have a hard time saving her marriage. She has to heal her inner split first.

[jennie-jennie]

As you can see above you were the one who compared your affair to MBEG's in the first place, which was the reason I commented on it.

 

(And I can't see how I am wrong being that the OM left you for another woman whom he has now married. Going back to your wife to try and make your marriage work versus moving on to a new love are two entirely different dynamics.)

 

You have been very persistent that MBEG choose your way of action, when in fact your stories do not compare at all. That is what I am reacting against.

 

Just repeating this post, Anne, because I can see you answered before my edited version was posted.

[jennie-jennie]

Yes, her H chose her, until she broke her wedding vows and showed herself to be utterly unworthy of the promises he made to her so long ago on their wedding day. If she wants him back it's all on her now. All of it...at least until she can convince him that she's sorry....and so far she hasn't even convinced me that she's sorry. She can't sell "sorry" while she's playing the sort of game that she's playing. Her own words on this board give lie to the idea that she's honestly sorry about anything other than being caught. She can't do "sorry" and keep fostering these mixed emotions about her ex-AP, and she certainly can't keep doing it as long as the "me first/if it feels good do it no matter who you have to walk on" crowd on this forum keeps fostering her emotional immaturity. Her husband doesn't sound like a stupid man, so it's no wonder that he isn't buying it.

 

To me "emotional immaturity" is not caring for your own happiness, sacrificing your own happiness for "doing the right thing".

 

My MM seems emotionally immature to me, in that he is still doing what his parents told him to do, not what he in his heart believes to be right. That is what has put him in this affair situation to begin with. Not taking responsibility for a changed situation and moving on from there.

[anne1707]

Well, it seems like MBEG shares my opinion on your comments to her.

 

She made that comment when I said that she still felt something more for the ex-MM than she does for her husband. Her later posts have pretty much confirmed what I was saying. She has since been posting about how she still loves the ex-MM, how her feelings for her H have not returned as she had hoped. Seems to me that I was not far from the truth.

 

 

A person who is so split between the BS and the MM will have a hard time saving her marriage. She has to heal her inner split first.

 

And I totally agree. If you actually bothered to read my posts, you would see that I question whether saving the marriage is the right thing. I have said more than once that she needs to decide what she wants - her H, the ex-MM or neither and to then act on that decision. I worry that MBEG is forcing herself to reconcile because she sees it as the "right thing to do". It is not right if her thoughts/feelings lie elsewhere.

 

I don't think I have ever said that she should reconcile with her H - she should be completely honest with him but that does not equate to reconciliation. I do however feel that a relationship with the ex-MM is not the best thing for her. Nothing at all to do with them having an affair but because he has shown himself to be a liar and a manipulator who has done his best to ensure MBEG is there for him if things did not work out with his wife. Both the wife and MBEG deserve better.

 

In this thread, MBEG has stated repeatedly that she wants her marriage. As somebody who has gone through a reconciliation, I feel as if I am in a position to advise her on that. I know how tough this is and my recent posts have tried to support her on this journey.

[bestplayer]

MBEG,

 

I am sorry you are upset by the things I said, but I stand by what I said.

 

What I see is this.. I see that you love your husband and WANT to be IN LOVE with your husband, but you aren't. I see that you love and are IN LOVE with your (x)MM.

 

I see that you are afraid of letting go completely of either one. I see that the fear is that if you give up your husband and your MM doesn't follow through with his divorce, you will be alone, and that scares you. I see that you like your husband very much, but you are missing some "feeling" in your relationship with him that you feel you can only get from your MM. So, if you let your MM go completely, you face a lifetime without that "feeling" that you so desperately seek.

 

None of this means you are a bad person. I am not saying any of this to hurt you, or to make you feel badly. I just have to be honest about what I see.

 

I do think, however, that holding on to a husband you don't feel IN LOVE with, is unfair. Not only to your husband, but also to yourself. And it is just my opinion, but I don't think one should have to try so damned hard to feel IN LOVE. I understand putting work in to a relationship, but you shouldn't have to work at being in love. To me, those are two distinctly different things.

 

So FA u r back with ur suggestions for OP to break her faimly ? just look at ur posts , I really dont know why r u convincing her so much e to ruin her faimly. ?

[jennie-jennie]

A person who is so split between the BS and the MM will have a hard time saving her marriage. She has to heal her inner split first.

 

And I totally agree. If you actually bothered to read my posts, you would see that I question whether saving the marriage is the right thing. I have said more than once that she needs to decide what she wants - her H, the ex-MM or neither and to then act on that decision. I worry that MBEG is forcing herself to reconcile because she sees it as the "right thing to do". It is not right if her thoughts/feelings lie elsewhere.

 

I don't think I have ever said that she should reconcile with her H - she should be completely honest with him but that does not equate to reconciliation. I do however feel that a relationship with the ex-MM is not the best thing for her. Nothing at all to do with them having an affair but because he has shown himself to be a liar and a manipulator who has done his best to ensure MBEG is there for him if things did not work out with his wife. Both the wife and MBEG deserve better.

 

In this thread, MBEG has stated repeatedly that she wants her marriage. As somebody who has gone through a reconciliation, I feel as if I am in a position to advise her on that. I know how tough this is and my recent posts have tried to support her on this journey.

 

And I am thinking that it might look like it is about which man to choose when in fact the problem lies much deeper, within MBEG. That is why I recommend her choice to go to IC to sort her own issues out. To give her advice on how to reconcile the marriage is being too far ahead in my opinion.

[jennie-jennie]

And it is just my opinion, but I don't think one should have to try so damned hard to feel IN LOVE. I understand putting work in to a relationship, but you shouldn't have to work at being in love. To me, those are two distinctly different things.

 

This is something that I have always wondered about as well. Thank you for putting it into words, FA.

[donnamaybe]

But feeling loved is important to me. If I was with some guy who had another woman he refused to leave, that wouldn't make me feel particularly loved. It would make me feel more like just another woman in his life - not THE woman in his life.

 

But then again, there are women who willingly enter polyamorous relationships. To each their own.

 

I think I'm worth being THE one, though, and if my man truly loves me, he would want me to FEEL like his one and only. I could only feel that way if that was how he treated me. I certainly couldn't feel that way if he had a wife.

[bestplayer]

So Fallen Angel u r back with ur suggestions for OP to break her faimly ?

just look at ur posts , I really dont know why r u convincing her so much to ruin her faimly. ? how r u so damn

 

sure that with her husband she will face a life time without love ? & u seem to be knowing more than op

 

herself that she can get those feelings from MM only ?

 

I m responding to ur posts because i just find it laughable the way u r suggesting her not to think about her

 

kids & husband , to ruthlessly wreck her faimly to pursue this mm .

If u dont value ur faimly that doesn't mean she too should do the same .

[mybrowneyedgirl]

as it is well agreed upon on this board, that when faced with a dday you are forced to make a split second choice. you simply give up any chance of saving a marriage if you were to say "hmm. i think i want you but i need to see if i want him first." it doesnt work that way. so you choose, and you do your best. but as we all know those feelings do not just magically disappear for the AP, as well as the fact that they dont magically reappear for the BS. at the same time you are now facing the possible hurt from being thrown under the bus, the instant loss of someone who filled the majority of your thoughts and time for years, the guilt of seeing the hurt you've caused, and also mourning the loss of someone you loved. its a TON to deal with in an instant. its a mess of feelings to make sense of. but you have to make that choice if you think you may want your marriage.

 

and so in my mind i am still working through all of those thoughts and emotions while at the same time trying to get back my marriage.

 

Anne - i dont compare my situation to yours, although you obviously do. for whatever reason you were able to turn off the feelings for your AP and devote everything to your H in a very short amount of time. Here, 18 months out you are doing wonderful and I commend you for that. but I still think your situation may be the exception. I think it happened very very fast for you. Obviously the feelings involved were different from mine. I cannot move that quickly.

 

I gave the dog on a leash analogy because that is exactly how he is treating me. Terrible, horrible names in every conversation. He kicks me, kicks me, kicks me and because im "trying to prove my love" I am forced to sit there and take it, not respond and then try to kiss the ground he walks on and show my remorse and guilt. It is, in my mind abusive. he has shown ZERO love or affection for me since dday. BUT. i keep going because i still have some hope that we might get past this. that this current situation might change.

 

the chances are very very slim. i realize that. but until i have exhausted all efforts to fix this, no matter how he treats me i must give it my best.

 

as far as xMM is concerned. I'm leaving that alone for the moment. Do I love him? Yes. absolutley. Could I ever trust him or forgive him? I have no clue. To answer those questions would involve contact and conversation and I'm not doing that.

 

in the end, i miss both men very very much. i see the xMM as something that will never and could never be. but that doesnt mean the feelings have gone away. if i could turn them off with a switch i surely would. as it would be much easier to live without thoughts of him than the pain of missing a loved one.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

Jennie -

 

I admit that I am split. I know that xMM is as well. I read your posts and think you are spot on about many many things.

 

In fact, until dday I was you. Very happy to be the OW. Very happy with him staying at home.

 

I know realize thats wrong. You cant do that, but I understand your feelings.

 

I think you have a realistic approach to all of this.

[whichwayisup]

MBEG, I didn't know that about your H. I was under the impression that he wanted to work on the marriage, and stood by you, time and time again, even after all the NC times that were broken, and thought it wasn't until recently you two separated as he couldn't take it anymore, you still hanging onto MM.. Unless I'm confusing your sitation with someone else's? Maybe hopeless's? Sorry if that is the case.

 

if i could turn them off with a switch i surely would

 

It's been 5 months since the A is over. Do you feel you've actively worked hard on letting go, not letting yourself obsess, focus on exMM? It seems you posted many threads about him, his wife, their marriage, how hurt you were - But even with that said, it was rare to see you talk about reconnecting with your H, wanting to love him again, the focus was primarily on exMM.

 

Your H needs to decide either he's in or he's out. As do you. Right now BOTH of aren't sure. So, maybe doing NC with BOTH for afew months, complete NC with your exMM and limited contact with your H.

[Ballerfamily]

As you can see above you were the one who compared your affair to MBEG's in the first place, which was the reason I commented on it.

 

(And I can't see how I am wrong being that the OM left you for another woman whom he has now married. Going back to your wife to try and make your marriage work versus moving on to a new love are two entirely different dynamics.)

 

You have been very persistent that MBEG choose your way of action, when in fact your stories do not compare at all. That is what I am reacting against.

 

JJ

 

God love you any other ow/om. But the difference is: an apologetic WS vs an unapologetic WS. Anne has realized affairs are what they are, (fanatasy) she is now in the real world, where the sun shines and her moral compass is no longer blinded. Do you realize if not for OW/OM there would be no need for this discussion. What is so infatuating about having something you shouldn't have, to covet what someone else has.. WS are broken, sad people. Why would you or any other OW/OM want that. I will never understand that. Relationships are hard enough without dealing with a new broken person who usually are in mid-life crisis or selfish sex addicts. God Love You all

 

Like Gunny says,

 

Once you walk through that door, adios amigo. Mgeg, your husband is a good man. he deserves a woman that loves him for who he is. This is a pathetic conversation. You affaired on your H, you are now feigning reconcilation, an could care less if you hurt him for the second time. The tunnel is dark, dont drag him into it. You are broken. He is hurt but not broken. You have chosen. You reap what you sow. Good Luck living with lieing broken MM. I hate to say it, but woman are so sure there emotions are not being met, but yet they fall prey to these scavengers. Men just fing want sex. Men that cheat suck. Why do you woman love these guys? I shake my head and love the moments with my boys.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Ballerfamily

[ladydesigner]

God love you any other ow/om. But the difference is: an apologetic WS vs an unapologetic WS. Anne has realized affairs are what they are, (fanatasy) she is now in the real world, where the sun shines and her moral compass is no longer blinded. Do you realize if not for OW/OM there would be no need for this discussion. What is so infatuating about having something you shouldn't have, to covet what someone else has.. WS are broken, sad people. Why would you or any other OW/OM want that. I will never understand that. Relationships are hard enough without dealing with a new broken person who usually are in mid-life crisis or selfish sex addicts. God Love You all

 

This is a very interesting POV. I am a WS and would say I was completely broken at the time I began my A. I think a lot of OW/OM want to feel like they are saving the WS in someway from their broken down state. I believe my XOM saw vulnerability and played on that to see if he could actually get me...he did and he used me threw me out like I was nothing to him. I would say I was in a early mid-life crisis. You would think most confident people would not be attracted to a broken WS. Not really sure what most of thinking is. It would be interesting to see a thread started on this as to why a person is attracted to someone who is broken.

[PhoenixRise]

MBEG

 

I don't think you should be accepting verbal abuse from your H in the name of reconciliation. Should you listen and understand while he talks about how he feels about the betrayal, marriage, and you? YES. Should you just sit there and take abuse and being called names? Absolutely not.

 

MBEG maybe you need to spend some time alone without actively working towards a relationship with either man so that you can figure out that you CAN be happy without either of them. Maybe you need to see that you can build a good life, be a good mom, be a happy woman and none of that absolutely depends on having either man in your life. Right now it seems that you think your choices are between the MM who you now can't trust and the H who can't trust or forgive you.

 

IMO allowing yourself to be called names because you feel guilty is not going to get you back to the kind of M you say you want.

 

I think the best way for you to stop ping ponging in your emotions from man to man is to let them both go (for now at least). I think it is impossible to make a good decision from a position of weakness, fear or confusion.