Solution?

[Hazyhead]

Aside from the WS, those involved or caught up in the conseqences of an affair are often plagued by insecurity relating to not knowing what the truth really is. Wouldn't it solve so much if the BS and the AP got together and shared their experience of the truth? For me, as an AP I have an XMM telling me to wait for him now that he is splitting with his W, but I don't think I have that in me after everything. I honestly think he isn't even sure if he's splitting up, he's just waiting for his wife to decide. However, he has fed her half-truths, if that, so later in she has even more revelations in store.

 

This is all hypothetical and not something I'd do as I couldn't interfere like that, but MBEG's thread got me thinking about it.

 

I know that the actual solution is to not have he affair in the first place, but wouldn't this clear a lot of the confusion up?

[greengoddess]

YES!! and I think any BS would be receptive to this. Unfortunately one of the ow's favorite matra's is I never made vows to you ask your husband.

 

The truth is all that needs to be told. Unfortunately the married person and the affair person get very very comfortable lying after they've done it for so long to hide the affair that they can never quite be honest.

[Hazyhead]

YES!! and I think any BS would be receptive to this. Unfortunately one of the ow's favorite matra's is I never made vows to you ask your husband.

 

The truth is all that needs to be told. Unfortunately the married person and the affair person get very very comfortable lying after they've done it for so long to hide the affair that they can never quite be honest.

 

I can understand that and I too was guilty of it during the affair. Now, I'm open with anyone who asks, which is shocking some people close to me, but i've been amazed at their support and I have to say it makes me feel... relieved almost, that the truth is out. My truth anyway. I know if I did this it would burn my bridges to xMM forever and a part of me would find relief in that too - that, as exciting and wonderful it was for the two of us whilst in it, it's now not just hurtful to us two but those around us. It would be better, in my opinion, to deal with the truth all at once rather than bit by bit as it drips out. It could be organised like that tv show Wifeswap where we all sit around a table and discuss it

[greengoddess]

LOL I don't think you will ever get the mm to agree to a meeting like that but call the wife. She needs the details to make an informed decision about her life. She will happily meet with you.

[Brokenlady]

Aside from the WS, those involved or caught up in the conseqences of an affair are often plagued by insecurity relating to not knowing what the truth really is. Wouldn't it solve so much if the BS and the AP got together and shared their experience of the truth? For me, as an AP I have an XMM telling me to wait for him now that he is splitting with his W, but I don't think I have that in me after everything. I honestly think he isn't even sure if he's splitting up, he's just waiting for his wife to decide. However, he has fed her half-truths, if that, so later in she has even more revelations in store.

 

This is all hypothetical and not something I'd do as I couldn't interfere like that, but MBEG's thread got me thinking about it.

 

I know that the actual solution is to not have he affair in the first place, but wouldn't this clear a lot of the confusion up?

 

Absolutely not. Both women have way too much incentive to lie. When xDM's xW called me, she did so with the intent to hurt me, to get me out of the way - not because she wanted to clear the air. Some of what she told me was true (and I was glad to have my gut confirmed), but much was not true (and independently verifiable). She did successfully disrupt my relationship with him, but she didn't get what she wanted - him to come back to her.

 

For my part, I was completely honest - perhaps more so than I should have been. Frankly, the truth was bad enough! But I could see where an OW might want to lie to get the W so angry she'd "get out of the way". When one or both woman are still very emotionally attached to the MM, this is just a recipe for increasing, rather than decreasing any insecurity and mistrust.

[OWoman]

Absolutely not. Both women have way too much incentive to lie. When xDM's xW called me, she did so with the intent to hurt me, to get me out of the way - not because she wanted to clear the air. Some of what she told me was true (and I was glad to have my gut confirmed), but much was not true (and independently verifiable). She did successfully disrupt my relationship with him, but she didn't get what she wanted - him to come back to her.

 

For my part, I was completely honest - perhaps more so than I should have been. Frankly, the truth was bad enough! But I could see where an OW might want to lie to get the W so angry she'd "get out of the way". When one or both woman are still very emotionally attached to the MM, this is just a recipe for increasing, rather than decreasing any insecurity and mistrust.

 

I would agree with this as a general view. There have been a couple of BWs on here who have demonstrated a different attitude, as have a couple of OWs, but I think it's rare that you'd find a situation where BOTH the BW and the OW share that mindset. More often you'd get the situation BL is alluding to - simply because at least one of them (usually both) still feel they have too much to lose.

[Hazyhead]

Absolutely not. Both women have way too much incentive to lie. When xDM's xW called me, she did so with the intent to hurt me, to get me out of the way - not because she wanted to clear the air. Some of what she told me was true (and I was glad to have my gut confirmed), but much was not true (and independently verifiable). She did successfully disrupt my relationship with him, but she didn't get what she wanted - him to come back to her.

 

For my part, I was completely honest - perhaps more so than I should have been. Frankly, the truth was bad enough! But I could see where an OW might want to lie to get the W so angry she'd "get out of the way". When one or both woman are still very emotionally attached to the MM, this is just a recipe for increasing, rather than decreasing any insecurity and mistrust.

 

I would agree with this as a general view. There have been a couple of BWs on here who have demonstrated a different attitude, as have a couple of OWs, but I think it's rare that you'd find a situation where BOTH the BW and the OW share that mindset. More often you'd get the situation BL is alluding to - simply because at least one of them (usually both) still feel they have too much to lose.

 

But this is my point (sorry if I was unclear), I mean it hypothetically and compleeeeetely idealistically. If you take out the motivation that both the OW/OM and the BS have to say whatever it is they say to the other, maybe inflict them with that birthday curse that Jim Carrey has his son bestow upon in Liar Liar, and have them communicate their side... poof! The BS is held to consequences. I was just thinking is all... it's just a huge 'if only'. How many extended agonies would this prevent?

[greengoddess]

But this is my point (sorry if I was unclear), I mean it hypothetically and compleeeeetely idealistically. If you take out the motivation that both the OW/OM and the BS have to say whatever it is they say to the other, maybe inflict them with that birthday curse that Jim Carrey has his son bestow upon in Liar Liar, and have them communicate their side... poof! The BS is held to consequences. I was just thinking is all... it's just a huge 'if only'. How many extended agonies would this prevent?

LOL what consequences is the bs held to? The bs was just minding their own business living their life cluelessly unknown to them that there was a third person in their marriage.

[Hazyhead]

LOL what consequences is the bs held to? The bs was just minding their own business living their life cluelessly unknown to them that there was a third person in their marriage.

 

God! I meant WS! Sorry!

[greengoddess]

God! I meant WS! Sorry!

 

lol. you would really think both the ow and the bs would be so pissed from both being played that they would want to be honest.

[Brokenlady]

lol. you would really think both the ow and the bs would be so pissed from both being played that they would want to be honest.

 

You would think that, but logic and emotions don't meet that often. More often than not, the conversation bewteen the BS and OW is a confrontation, not a fact-finding adventure, which changes the tone of the whole thing.

 

For instance, why would the xW of my xDM call me to have a mutually beneficial exchange of the truth - they're divorced - it makes no sense to even care anymore. It's over between them. Except that it's not, quite. The goal was to hurt me because she blames me entirely for the collapse of their marriage. She still had a reason to lie because even though she finally knew the depth of his deception, she still wanted him. In truth though- she never wanted him for him, she just wanted to WIN.

[Hazyhead]

You would think that, but logic and emotions don't meet that often. More often than not, the conversation bewteen the BS and OW is a confrontation, not a fact-finding adventure, which changes the tone of the whole thing.

 

For instance, why would the xW of my xDM call me to have a mutually beneficial exchange of the truth - they're divorced - it makes no sense to even care anymore. It's over between them. Except that it's not, quite. The goal was to hurt me because she blames me entirely for the collapse of their marriage. She still had a reason to lie because even though she finally knew the depth of his deception, she still wanted him. In truth though- she never wanted him for him, she just wanted to WIN.

 

BL, your xDM's wife seemed to want to hang on to him at almost all cost. I know I don't know your situation properly but for me, I could never react the way she did, could you? My xMM's wife called me for the facts but I would not give them to her because she hadn't spoken to him properly. Plus, I was in shock, I would react differently if she called me now. That's my mistake, anyway. I can see that there would be some that would only use the opportunity to hurt but for those who seek honest answers...

 

???

[White Flower]

Aside from the WS, those involved or caught up in the conseqences of an affair are often plagued by insecurity relating to not knowing what the truth really is. Wouldn't it solve so much if the BS and the AP got together and shared their experience of the truth? For me, as an AP I have an XMM telling me to wait for him now that he is splitting with his W, but I don't think I have that in me after everything. I honestly think he isn't even sure if he's splitting up, he's just waiting for his wife to decide. However, he has fed her half-truths, if that, so later in she has even more revelations in store.

 

This is all hypothetical and not something I'd do as I couldn't interfere like that, but MBEG's thread got me thinking about it.

 

I know that the actual solution is to not have he affair in the first place, but wouldn't this clear a lot of the confusion up?

Well, once you've come this far you can't go back and change it. You're in it and so yes, you need a solution.

 

BS and AP meeting would certainly solve the problem of knowledge (timeline and history), MP story comparison, and a possible way to decide where to proceed from there with the right people. If one is less intelligent or more emotional (thus more judgmental) then they might not be on the same wavelength. It would take two mature participants to be able to pull it off. I'm thinking they would have to be equals in that regard, and I'm not sure MP is looking for someone to equal their spouse in the first place.

[Brokenlady]

BL, your xDM's wife seemed to want to hang on to him at almost all cost. I know I don't know your situation properly but for me, I could never react the way she did, could you? My xMM's wife called me for the facts but I would not give them to her because she hadn't spoken to him properly. Plus, I was in shock, I would react differently if she called me now. That's my mistake, anyway. I can see that there would be some that would only use the opportunity to hurt but for those who seek honest answers...

 

???

 

You know Hazy, there are many many many things she has done that I would never do. Were I in her position - a person who is verbally and physically abusive to my H, emotionally abusive to my children, used to being catered to because everyone fears me, living a life of luxury with almost no responsibilities, and I got away with that for about 20 years, I suppose I'd hang on for dear life too.

 

Sometimes I have more sympathy for her than others. Today is not one of those days. Without providing any detail, she just pulled yet another truly horrific stunt with the children that proves (for me at least) that she's missing that "motherly" gene. She got caught, and now she's acting more insane than ever.

 

At any rate, xDM didn't do much to discourage her. He wasn't clear and consistent, he was completely boundary-less and he jerked us both around with mixed signals. In her defense, she had reason to believe he was coming back (he never removed the last of his belongings from her house, never did a change of address form, kept joint accounts, slept over there several times a month, would not answer at all when she'd directly ask about whether they'd reconcile, took her on vacation long after they seperated, held the divorce paperwork to delay things until I prodded him, etc.)

Edited February 24, 2010 by Brokenlady

[hopeless4u]

Aside from the WS, those involved or caught up in the conseqences of an affair are often plagued by insecurity relating to not knowing what the truth really is. Wouldn't it solve so much if the BS and the AP got together and shared their experience of the truth? For me, as an AP I have an XMM telling me to wait for him now that he is splitting with his W, but I don't think I have that in me after everything. I honestly think he isn't even sure if he's splitting up, he's just waiting for his wife to decide. However, he has fed her half-truths, if that, so later in she has even more revelations in store.

 

This is all hypothetical and not something I'd do as I couldn't interfere like that, but MBEG's thread got me thinking about it.

 

I know that the actual solution is to not have he affair in the first place, but wouldn't this clear a lot of the confusion up?

 

 

I think this is a good idea but not until the dust has settled. I have spoken to my xMM W a couple of times but I was angry, upset and yes, still protecting xMM and his W's feelings.

I held back on so many things, mostly because I was protecting xMM as I was never sure how much he had told her and also because I never wanted to hurt her anymore than she was already hurting.

 

I think once the AP has come to terms with their hurt and realised the xMM will always go back to his W(in most cases) that is the time to talk but in my case xMM's W would rather not know the details and I'm happy to let her live in ignorance if thats what she wants.

[OWoman]

lol. you would really think both the ow and the bs would be so pissed from both being played that they would want to be honest.

 

Assuming both were. The BW invariably is played, the OW some times but not always.

[OWoman]

You know Hazy, there are many many many things she has done that I would never do. Were I in her position - a person who is verbally and physically abusive to my H, emotionally abusive to my children, used to being catered to because everyone fears me, living a life of luxury with almost no responsibilities, and I got away with that for about 20 years, I suppose I'd hang on for dear life too.

 

Sometimes I have more sympathy for her than others. Today is not one of those days. Without providing any detail, she just pulled yet another truly horrific stunt with the children that proves (for me at least) that she's missing that "motherly" gene. She got caught, and now she's acting more insane than ever.

 

Were my H and your xDM M to the same W???

[OWoman]

Well, once you've come this far you can't go back and change it. You're in it and so yes, you need a solution.

 

BS and AP meeting would certainly solve the problem of knowledge (timeline and history), MP story comparison, and a possible way to decide where to proceed from there with the right people. If one is less intelligent or more emotional (thus more judgmental) then they might not be on the same wavelength. It would take two mature participants to be able to pull it off. I'm thinking they would have to be equals in that regard, and I'm not sure MP is looking for someone to equal their spouse in the first place.

 

... and both with sufficient disinterest to be able to accept that the "best" outcome might not be THEM landing up with the MP!

[White Flower]

... and both with sufficient disinterest to be able to accept that the "best" outcome might not be THEM landing up with the MP!

Exactly. If the goal is to merely get the info in order to save the M they might learn a few things that would turn them away forever! And that is the reason I think most BS don't want to take that meeting. The truth would hurt too much and D would be inevitable. Believing MP and burying the head in the sand will save the M.

[Spark1111]

Well, HH, I tried.....and I tried....and then 2 years post DDay I succeeded.

 

And I was vastly disappointed I must say.

 

She held a certain opinion of me in her head (I'm sure knowingly or unknowingly aided by WS:eek:) and needless to say, it did not go well. I am convinced she still harbors feelings for him (I get that) but really could not handle me being a mature and kind woman. I sensed she still needs to vilify me as the horrible wifey, or that he returned simply because he adores his children. I guess I get that too.

 

So, it depends on the type of woman you are dealing with.

 

Would a BS lie? I am sure many would!

 

Would an OW? Again, I am sure many would! Mine did)

 

But think on this: One reconciliation web site says whatever the BS needs to heal, they need.

 

One woman asked her WS to arrange a meeting between the three of them to sit and talk and disclose, and he did!

 

Can you imagine it? I think that is three very highly evolved people to agree to that.

 

No more secrets and lies left unrevealed between all parties involved in an affair. Amazing!

[White Flower]

Exactly. If the goal is to merely get the info in order to save the M they might learn a few things that would turn them away forever! And that is the reason I think most BS don't want to take that meeting. The truth would hurt too much and D would be inevitable. Believing MP and burying the head in the sand will save the M.

 

Disclaimer: I should state that this is in the case where BS was severly gaslighted throughout the A and after D-day.

[Spark1111]

Exactly. If the goal is to merely get the info in order to save the M they might learn a few things that would turn them away forever! And that is the reason I think most BS don't want to take that meeting. The truth would hurt too much and D would be inevitable. Believing MP and burying the head in the sand will save the M.

 

I would have taken that meeting in a heartbeat. I am the BS. I couldn't seem to get the other two parties on board though. ;)

 

WF, it would have been horribly hurtful to the OW too, in many instances, and it would have been the ultimate humiliation for the WS.

 

But the truth would have set everyone free to choose their future as they saw fit, IMHO.

 

Two years later, I am in a better place. I do not think she is, though. As for him, he is in IC for it all.:o:o

[hopeless4u]

Well, HH, I tried.....and I tried....and then 2 years post DDay I succeeded.

 

And I was vastly disappointed I must say.

 

She held a certain opinion of me in her head (I'm sure knowingly or unknowingly aided by WS:eek:) and needless to say, it did not go well. I am convinced she still harbors feelings for him (I get that) but really could not handle me being a mature and kind woman. I sensed she still needs to vilify me as the horrible wifey, or that he returned simply because he adores his children. I guess I get that too.

 

So, it depends on the type of woman you are dealing with.

 

Would a BS lie? I am sure many would!

 

Would an OW? Again, I am sure many would! Mine did)

 

But think on this: One reconciliation web site says whatever the BS needs to heal, they need.

 

One woman asked her WS to arrange a meeting between the three of them to sit and talk and disclose, and he did!

 

Can you imagine it? I think that is three very highly evolved people to agree to that.

 

No more secrets and lies left unrevealed between all parties involved in an affair. Amazing!

 

xMM's W asked for this after the 1st DDay, HE talked her out of it, I wonder why??

I can see now that he kept me sweet to stop me from talking to his W and now he has talked his W into not contacting me so they can put it all behind them....yeah right whatever!!

[Hazyhead]

Well, HH, I tried.....and I tried....and then 2 years post DDay I succeeded.

 

And I was vastly disappointed I must say.

 

She held a certain opinion of me in her head (I'm sure knowingly or unknowingly aided by WS:eek:) and needless to say, it did not go well. I am convinced she still harbors feelings for him (I get that) but really could not handle me being a mature and kind woman. I sensed she still needs to vilify me as the horrible wifey, or that he returned simply because he adores his children. I guess I get that too.

 

So, it depends on the type of woman you are dealing with.

 

Would a BS lie? I am sure many would!

 

Would an OW? Again, I am sure many would! Mine did)

 

But think on this: One reconciliation web site says whatever the BS needs to heal, they need.

 

One woman asked her WS to arrange a meeting between the three of them to sit and talk and disclose, and he did!

 

Can you imagine it? I think that is three very highly evolved people to agree to that.

 

No more secrets and lies left unrevealed between all parties involved in an affair. Amazing!

 

It's unfortunate that you dealt with an OW like that, Spark. (God, get that! It's unfortunate that you dealt with an OW at all!) If I put myself in the place of the BS (definitely something I do more post A than during) I think I would want details, even destructive ones probably. Wouldn't be able to help myself. I hate not knowing things (maybe that's a control thing) so I can't imagine how hard it is when you can't get the full truth no matter how you try. Frustrated ain't the word!

 

For what it's worth Spark, you're clearly many times the woman she is. I'd better anything on your husband being aware of that constantly.

 

(I can't believe that wife-swap style meeting actually happened! OMG! )

[Hazyhead]

Exactly. If the goal is to merely get the info in order to save the M they might learn a few things that would turn them away forever! And that is the reason I think most BS don't want to take that meeting. The truth would hurt too much and D would be inevitable. Believing MP and burying the head in the sand will save the M.

 

I can see how this could happen. It makes me sad. Still, a lot of people cope better like that, maintaining the status quo as much as they can is what keeps them going.