Carbohydrate Myth?

[xpaperxcutx]

There's something about Carbs I don't quite understand so I am hoping someone could shed some light on the subject.

 

I'm a lurker on bodybuilding.com and more often than not, I come across something known as carb loading. Apparently our body's carb supply deplete over a period of time and in order to store up on carbs, people actually " load" on various carbs.

 

I think our liver and our muscles can store a certain amount before converting them into fat?

 

I've always been very carb conscious ( trying to change that) but the question I want to know is at what certain do our bodies convert the carbs into fat? I know that on an empty stomach, our body will burn fat as energy to a certain extent before burning lean muscle, but the whole physiology of the way anatomy work is complicated. Since it's different for everyone, can someone shed a general light on when our body converts carbs to fat?

[Green]

I'm not a scientest so how do you expect me to answer this. What I suggest is you do an expirement on yourself seeing how it all works out for you. Why don't u post it on that forum, and ask for cites to where they got there answers from, people often just make this health stuff up.

 

My opinion is you have to test this stuff out for yourself. Obviously some stuff sound to dangerous, but what your asking sounds perfectly testable.

[bananaboat11]

Carbohydrates are just profound chains of glucose (simple sugar) linked by alpha bonds. There are different chains of carbs, but ultimately... they're broken down to glucose...

 

CHO (Carbs) are stored in the liver (~70 grams)... in the muscle (~ 300 grams) and free in the blood (~5 grams) as glycogen.

 

We have 3 energy systems we use daily;

1. Phosphagen system (Creatine + ATP)

2. Fat Metabolism

3. Carbohydrate Metabolism

There is a 4th (Protein Metabolism) but I'll get to this in a minute...

 

These energy systems break down substrate to ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) which is the 'energy currency' of all cells. ATP is VERY important for all physiologic biochemical functions... well.. MOST.

 

So you have 2 PRIMARY energy sources for activity... FAT & CARBS.

 

Protein contributes VERY little to energy during rest and during exercise.. typically around 4% contribution during exercise, but as exercise is prolonged... protein (PRO) can contribute up to 15% on average... usually because cortisol (a stress hormone which breaks down muscle tissue further for energy... amino acids.. but I won't go there now).

 

So... back to Fat vs. Carbs (CHO)... know from now on I'll refer to Carbs as CHO.

 

It's a time vs. intensity thing... (BUT KNOW.. ALL ENERGY SYSTEMS ARE ON ALL THE TIME... HOW MUCH EACH CONTRIBUTES DEPENDS ON TIME OR INTENSITY. At higher intensities, naturally you'll go for SHORTER duration... and at LOWER intensities you can go longer durations... SOOOO...)

 

PRIMARILY.. during rest, we burn on average 1kcal = 1 Calorie = 1000 calories / minute.

 

At lower intensities, longer duration you'll burn PRIMARILY 100% fat (give or take)

 

As exercise or physical activity increase in intensity... carbohydrate metabolism stores (primarily blood glucose) the phosphagen system (Creatine + ATP) and carbohydrate metabolism (glycolysis) kick up to provide ATP for the muscles...

 

TECHNICALLY... if you want to exercise... CHO is important.

 

CARB LOADING is the concept of increasing your intramuscular glycogen stores... (STORED BLOOD SUGAR). And these stores come into play during PROLONGED bouts of higher intensity exercise activities... and IMMEDIATE ONSET of exercise as the glycolytic processes FIRST begin before glucose is taken up into the muscle cell to be converted to a USEABLE form of sugar in the glycolytic process...

 

Carb loading, i'd recommend, if you're an elite athlete or in training. A lot of bodybuilders do this to maintain elevated levels of muscle glycogen to aid in their lifts... It takes time to increase IMG (intramuscular glycogen)... as immediate consumption of carbs releases insulin to attenuate elevated levels of blood sugar (in response to the carbs being broken down into simple sugars)... but... as long as you aren't depleting glucose from the blood b/c you're not creating ATP from carbs... what's the use? Another problem would get with insulin action (or insulin's ability to upregulate the uptake of blood sugar into the muscle site)...

 

yadda yadda yadda...

 

did I lose you? Sorry... I tried to keep that as simple as possible.

 

and ps - I used to post on bb.com. I don't believe half the **** on that site... most of the users that post on the forums are idiots who listen and follow bunk, anecdotal evidence b/c the 'big guy' at the gym says it works. Bro science fails.

 

I'm a PhD candidate (physiologist) and I study biochemistry, endocrinology with a desired concentration in Energy Metabolism (and happen to be a certified personal trainer)

 

Good luck.

 

if you have any serious questions about diet, health, fitness, and nutrition... and supplementation as I lecture a dietary supplements class... ask away.

 

good luck OP

[Green]

damn this guy sure sounds smart but it went over my head. Hopefuly you understand Xpaper.

 

So if I understood this guy correct, carbloading isn't really something you, a girl should be worrying about... unless of course you are some kind of body builder doing intense workouts....

 

Seriously figure out how to do a propper squat. Now theres a good work out.

[bananaboat11]

damn this guy sure sounds smart but it went over my head. Hopefuly you understand Xpaper.

 

So if I understood this guy correct, carbloading isn't really something you, a girl should be worrying about... unless of course you are some kind of body builder doing intense workouts....

 

Seriously figure out how to do a propper squat. Now theres a good work out.

 

 

technically, carb loading is beneficial for athletes in training...

 

so if you play a sport... run at intensities above ... hmm... to put in simple terms.. if you have to catch your breathe 3-5 times in a single sentence while running you'll be burning > CHO relative to fat...

 

 

What's the OP's goal?

[Green]

technically, carb loading is beneficial for athletes in training...

 

so if you play a sport... run at intensities above ... hmm... to put in simple terms.. if you have to catch your breathe 3-5 times in a single sentence while running you'll be burning > CHO relative to fat...

 

 

What's the OP's goal?

 

great question, you really dropped the ball Xpaper by not giving us your goal. My guess is she is just trying to get in shape and plays no sport. Would probably benefit from simple sugar reduction (bread, candy, corn syrup ect.) and increased plain water instead of other drinks. Other then that space your meals out to 4 or 5 times a day. Make the early meals heavier then later ones. Get atleast the amount of sleep your body needs and don't eat 3 or 4 hours before sleep.

 

Oh yeah chew your food good and eat slow and enjoy.

[threebyfate]

So bananaboat, in layman's terms, you're saying that if you're happy with your fat reserve levels since they're low and don't want to risk burning any muscle mass, you load carbs for intense training and workout purposes, to also ensure for quickly tapable sources of energy.

[bananaboat11]

So bananaboat, in layman's terms, you're saying that if you're happy with your fat reserve levels since they're low and don't want to risk burning any muscle mass, you load carbs for intense training and workout purposes, to also ensure for quickly tapable sources of energy.

 

 

In english please?

[threebyfate]

In english please?

Is my translation close enough or is it off?

[bananaboat11]

Fat metabolism (beta ox. + kreb's/ETC) is a much 'longer' process... usually occuring 45 seconds into exercise... while the phosphagen system is immediately onset 1-8 seconds approx and CHO metabolism (glycolysis) is 8 or 10 seconds - 35-45 seconds

 

so ... I say... OP... what's your goal?

 

EVERY aspect to health and fitness has a desired plan/regimen.

 

If you look at a skinny runner who is "lean/fit" and ask a bodybuilder if they think the runner is fit... the bodybuilder may say not to his level

 

if you ask a baseball player if they think a powerlifter is fit... the Baseball player will see fitness differently and say no...

 

if you ask me what I think is fit? heh... being a CPT... I know what fitness is to me... being a former collegiate athlete... HA...

 

but being a professional... if your cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure, blood sugar levels, etc all came back within normal range.. congrats.... to me, you're fit.

[xpaperxcutx]

great question, you really dropped the ball Xpaper by not giving us your goal. My guess is she is just trying to get in shape and plays no sport. Would probably benefit from simple sugar reduction (bread, candy, corn syrup ect.) and increased plain water instead of other drinks. Other then that space your meals out to 4 or 5 times a day. Make the early meals heavier then later ones. Get atleast the amount of sleep your body needs and don't eat 3 or 4 hours before sleep.

 

Oh yeah chew your food good and eat slow and enjoy.

 

LMAO are you taking a jab at me? I'm very active, 6 day a week exercises with cardio and weight training.

[xpaperxcutx]

 

What's the OP's goal?

 

 

The reason I ask is because I'm trying to get my body to burn fat rather than LBM. As for the carb relevance, I've been told that consuming too much carb will hinder fat burning, however I can't run at my best if I don't have some form of carb in my system.

[xpaperxcutx]

And thanks BB, I don't mind the science. I was just curious to the way my body uses carbs and how I can make my body use the carbs effectively.

[bananaboat11]

The reason I ask is because I'm trying to get my body to burn fat rather than LBM. As for the carb relevance, I've been told that consuming too much carb will hinder fat burning, however I can't run at my best if I don't have some form of carb in my system.

 

 

it's all relative...

 

time vs. intensity.

 

what's your ht vs. wt.?

 

CHO inhibiting fat usage can be total BS depending on exercise bout duration and intensity and diet composition. Total Food quotient (comp) can effect Resting Quotient (comp) but only within a 3-4 hour window frame given Diet Induced Thermogenesis or Thermic Effect of Food...

 

i'll explain more once i get your BMI

[xpaperxcutx]

I'm 5'3 115, but I carry most of my weight in my lower body.

[Jaytb]

I'm 5'3 115, but I carry most of my weight in my lower body.

 

Your weight sounds quite ideal to me, I don't know why you feel the need to lose more body fat.

 

Carbs aren't all that evil, it's just they are used up as energy really quickly. Hence why complex carbs are preferable to simple ones. Also your body continually converts glucose to glycogen in the liver, and it uses diffusion to keep glucose levels in the blood in check, while excess carbs are converted to glycogen. I think if your body finds too much glycogen is being produced (ie too many carbs in your diet) it will release hormones that tell fat cells to make more fat and store more glucose as fat.

[cuppa]

The reason I ask is because I'm trying to get my body to burn fat rather than LBM. As for the carb relevance, I've been told that consuming too much carb will hinder fat burning, however I can't run at my best if I don't have some form of carb in my system.

 

You and I are on the same boat . I was told to do 33% Carb, 33% Protein, 33% Fat then switch to 40, 40, 20 afterward.

 

I try I try I try, but I can't reduce my carb below 50%. Without Carb, I can't keep up with my exercises (especially I go with HITT one). I even give up rice (and I'm of asian descent which is hard to do LOL) and my carb still can't go below my 50% consumption.

 

Nonetheless, my body is still going through transformation and I'm really happy with it. So I will just keep my current eating habit because I don't plan to have a body builder body anyways .

[bananaboat11]

Your weight sounds quite ideal to me, I don't know why you feel the need to lose more body fat.

 

Carbs aren't all that evil, it's just they are used up as energy really quickly. Hence why complex carbs are preferable to simple ones. Also your body continually converts glucose to glycogen in the liver, and it uses diffusion to keep glucose levels in the blood in check, while excess carbs are converted to glycogen. I think if your body finds too much glycogen is being produced (ie too many carbs in your diet) it will release hormones that tell fat cells to make more fat and store more glucose as fat.

 

excess CHO is broken down to glucose via the GI tract... when it enters the blood.. if glycogen stores are 'full' and there is no exercise induced glucose uptake nor insulin mediated glucose disposal into the muscle site...

 

...glucose it primarily feeding the brain.. but is also consumed by other tissues... adipose or fat tissue is one of these... performing a reverse process of glycolysis (partially) to store simple sugars ... it's a fun process, but my focus is carbohydrate metabolism.. so let's stay there.

 

[Jaytb]

excess CHO is broken down to glucose via the GI tract... when it enters the blood.. if glycogen stores are 'full' and there is no exercise induced glucose uptake nor insulin mediated glucose disposal into the muscle site...

 

...glucose it primarily feeding the brain.. but is also consumed by other tissues... adipose or fat tissue is one of these... performing a reverse process of glycolysis (partially) to store simple sugars ... it's a fun process, but my focus is carbohydrate metabolism.. so let's stay there.

 

 

yeah basically. CHO? Formaldehyde?

[xpaperxcutx]

You and I are on the same boat . I was told to do 33% Carb, 33% Protein, 33% Fat then switch to 40, 40, 20 afterward.

 

I try I try I try, but I can't reduce my carb below 50%. Without Carb, I can't keep up with my exercises (especially I go with HITT one). I even give up rice (and I'm of asian descent which is hard to do LOL) and my carb still can't go below my 50% consumption.

 

Nonetheless, my body is still going through transformation and I'm really happy with it. So I will just keep my current eating habit because I don't plan to have a body builder body anyways .

 

Yeah, I try to cut on the carbs but I've always been a bread person. Protein doesn't fully fill me up unless I have something like 2 pieces of wheat bread along with it, I guess that's why I eat alot of tuna sandwiches.

 

LOl, actually I'm asian too, so I've given up both rice AND noodles.

[xpaperxcutx]

Your weight sounds quite ideal to me, I don't know why you feel the need to lose more body fat.

 

Carbs aren't all that evil, it's just they are used up as energy really quickly. Hence why complex carbs are preferable to simple ones. Also your body continually converts glucose to glycogen in the liver, and it uses diffusion to keep glucose levels in the blood in check, while excess carbs are converted to glycogen. I think if your body finds too much glycogen is being produced (ie too many carbs in your diet) it will release hormones that tell fat cells to make more fat and store more glucose as fat.

 

The scale doesn't do me justice. If anything, I consider myself skinny fat. I'm not trying to lose " weight", I'm trying to " cut" fat.

 

The BMI is outdated. I use a caliber.

[torranceshipman]

It depends on your physical makeup and exercise level. But carb loading is ONLY relevant if you work out hard and have the aim of building serious muscle, and it is generally done after a period of carb depletion.