Author giotto Posted March 4, 2010 Author Share Posted March 4, 2010 Just a word of caution...I left my ex H hoping it would change something, and he met someone else 3 months later. Be prepared for it to be permanent once you leave, if that's what you decide to do, or decide pretty strict rules you would both stick to if it's a 'trial' separation. I think the persom who is left feels a lot of resentment and in a way has the moral high ground with friends, family and so on, whatever led up to you leaving, so be prepared for some drama on that front. I know... if I leave it will be my fault... how can you tell people you left your beautiful family just for sex? Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 You use the same buzzword women do, 'intimacy'. 'Our marriage lacked intimacy and I tried my best to make it work. Some issues are irreconcilable' Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 4, 2010 Author Share Posted March 4, 2010 You use the same buzzword women do, 'intimacy'. 'Our marriage lacked intimacy and I tried my best to make it work. Some issues are irreconcilable' There's definitely a lack of intimacy... actually, intimacy has gone completely AWOL... But after all these years of pavlovian behaviour, it's almost impossible to recreate it... all the defense mechanism click immediately in position... Link to post Share on other sites
SarahRose Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I guess this speaks to us who are just in these situations as not to just let it slide for years. I think it is easier to fix things early on then after years where resentment and certain patterns and fears have built up over time. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 my problem at the moment is: she knows how much I'm suffering, she could easily have sex with me if she wanted to. She did this last time. She said she put a lot of effort into it. Now, why not put me out of my misery? I find it terribly cruel. If we were to exchange positions, I would do my utmost to try and get into the mood, to think about sex... it doesn't have to be porn... maybe just a bit of erotic literature? But I can't mention it... it would be interpreted as putting pressure... Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 my problem at the moment is: she knows how much I'm suffering, she could easily have sex with me if she wanted to. She did this last time. She said she put a lot of effort into it. Now, why not put me out of my misery? I find it terribly cruel. If we were to exchange positions, I would do my utmost to try and get into the mood, to think about sex... it doesn't have to be porn... maybe just a bit of erotic literature? But I can't mention it... it would be interpreted as putting pressure... Can't help it but this comes across as emotional blackmail from her. She's got you where she wants you. OK, I'm a novice because I was never married let alone for a long time but do things really have to be that complicated? Is it a given that just because you are together for many years, passion/intimacy/sex become complicated and difficult? Would one not rather expect that these things become better, more profound and comfortable? One thing that always crosses my mind when I read your posts. You have problems for 15 years yet you have 4 children (if I remember correctly) and the youngest is 9 years. Well, that means that when your wife wanted to become pregnant, sex surely wasn't a problem... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 One thing that always crosses my mind when I read your posts. You have problems for 15 years yet you have 4 children (if I remember correctly) and the youngest is 9 years. Well, that means that when your wife wanted to become pregnant, sex surely wasn't a problem... well, the last two weren't strictly planned... In fact, she's been absolutely fine with sex until after the second child, both planned... seems to me that, after she reached her goal, she shut down sexually... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 well, the last two weren't strictly planned... In fact, she's been absolutely fine with sex until after the second child, both planned... seems to me that, after she reached her goal, she shut down sexually... Is she afraid of becoming pregnant again? Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 Is she afraid of becoming pregnant again? lol... well, she will be 47 soon and, since I had a vasectomy some years ago, I very much doubt it... but you never know... Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmasMuse Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 well, the last two weren't strictly planned... In fact, she's been absolutely fine with sex until after the second child, both planned... seems to me that, after she reached her goal, she shut down sexually... Do you feel she purposely "shut down" after the second child? I mean that kind of comes across as, her having kids with you was her goal and that was all. There are some men as well, I'n not saying you, but some men who think all their goal is, is to provide money, and thats all. No emotional support or nothing and they think if they are providing just an income that all is well in their world, and they don not have to do anything else. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 lol... well, she will be 47 soon and, since I had a vasectomy some years ago, I very much doubt it... but you never know... Ah, I see. 2 unplanned pregnancies would put the fear in me at this point Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 Ah, I see. 2 unplanned pregnancies would put the fear in me at this point the first unplanned pregnancy happened over 2 years after the second child was born and our sex life was pretty bad already... when people say to me "gosh, you've been busy" referring to the number of children, I usually reply "we only had sex 4 times"... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 Do you feel she purposely "shut down" after the second child? I mean that kind of comes across as, her having kids with you was her goal and that was all. There are some men as well, I'n not saying you, but some men who think all their goal is, is to provide money, and thats all. No emotional support or nothing and they think if they are providing just an income that all is well in their world, and they don not have to do anything else. I've always been a fairly involved parent, with all my children... I work from home, I'm always there for them. I did all the usual stuff.. changing nappies, feeding them at night when the wife stopped breast feeding, I looked after two of them one day a week for many years when she was pursuing her career in the health service... maybe too much so? I was the one who wasn't getting any emotional support... her mummy stage lasted for ages... I think she it just took her mind off her issues... I have my faults... when she shut me off, I tried and tried and then stopped trying... because of the children, I never even thought of separating. I hanged in there. I'm still hanging in there, but since the children are now older, I started questioning the whole relationship... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 "we only had sex 4 times"... At least you still have your sense of humor! Dude, if I got pg 4 times with little sex, I'd be so scared to have sex! I'm serious! I mean, I love my kids, but I know my limits--and I/we do NOT want any more. Full stop. Could this have been a factor in her shut down way back when? Vas or no, if she associated sex with anxiety about pg, it would have a lasting impact. Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmasMuse Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I've always been a fairly involved parent, with all my children... I work from home, I'm always there for them. I did all the usual stuff.. changing nappies, feeding them at night when the wife stopped breast feeding, I looked after two of them one day a week for many years when she was pursuing her career in the health service... maybe too much so? I was the one who wasn't getting any emotional support... her mummy stage lasted for ages... I think she it just took her mind off her issues... I have my faults... when she shut me off, I tried and tried and then stopped trying... because of the children, I never even thought of separating. I hanged in there. I'm still hanging in there, but since the children are now older, I started questioning the whole relationship... I understand what you're saying. Maybe you have done too much, and maybe thats part of the problem. It sounds like she "shut down" not just sexually but maybe a little in other areas as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 At least you still have your sense of humor! Dude, if I got pg 4 times with little sex, I'd be so scared to have sex! I'm serious! I mean, I love my kids, but I know my limits--and I/we do NOT want any more. Full stop. Could this have been a factor in her shut down way back when? Vas or no, if she associated sex with anxiety about pg, it would have a lasting impact. we are very compatible, I mean from a reproduction point of view... I'm not sure... I think there are many factors and this could be one. But I've always been very supportive of her, even when the pregnancy was unwanted... she was quite upset, because she thought we couldn't afford it, but I encouraged her and she adores babies... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 I understand what you're saying. Maybe you have done too much, and maybe thats part of the problem. It sounds like she "shut down" not just sexually but maybe a little in other areas as well. I don't know if you have read the rest of the thread, but it's just a huge pile of issues she hid from me (or their severity) and now she admits to them but it's too late! I do agree she lost her attraction to me as a man some time ago. She even mentioned it once. Why stay, then? Unfortunately, it would have meant being on her own, without my financial or house support. I suppose she was also busy dealing with her mental issues... she told she had to learn how to deal with them all the time and it must be difficult having to fight your own thoughts in your own head... Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Is she afraid of becoming pregnant again? lol... well, she will be 47 soon and, since I had a vasectomy some years ago, I very much doubt it... but you never know... when people say to me "gosh, you've been busy" referring to the number of children, I usually reply "we only had sex 4 times"... Giotto, this is a great line. I may use that someday. We had our kids within a short time, and I heard a similar comment a few times...to say the least. I wish I had know that back then. You say your wife isn't attracted to you as a man. Do you mean physically or based on your personality or both? I ask because many women (my wife included) base their attraction on more than simply the physical looks. She will call one man unattractive because he is a cheater or he is rude. Yet another man will be considered desirable because of his honesty and faithfulness to his wife and family. What do you think your wife finds unattractive about you? And can that be changed? Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 You say your wife isn't attracted to you as a man. Do you mean physically or based on your personality or both? I ask because many women (my wife included) base their attraction on more than simply the physical looks. She will call one man unattractive because he is a cheater or he is rude. Yet another man will be considered desirable because of his honesty and faithfulness to his wife and family. What do you think your wife finds unattractive about you? And can that be changed? Some years ago (funnily enough after the birth of our second child) she told me I wasn't "man enough" for her. I'm pretty sure she wasn't referring to my masculinity per se , but more to my role in the family. Because at the time I wasn't earning much (I had been in the UK for just over 3 years and was building my business up... also, I work in publishing and the earnings are not great), she was the main bread winner and she had to go to work fairly early after the birth of our son... maybe she just wished I could take care of her and she could stay at home a little longer? I don't know. Years later, when questioned by me, she commented that it was an awful thing to say, but she never said she didn't mean it! I though it was very unfair towards me, since she knew very well what I graduated in and what my probable career path would be... I just let it go, and didn't think it was a huge red flag, but I suppose I was wrong... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Some years ago (funnily enough after the birth of our second child) she told me I wasn't "man enough" for her. I'm pretty sure she wasn't referring to my masculinity per se , but more to my role in the family. That's sad to read. A lot of women find this: I did all the usual stuff.. changing nappies, feeding them at night when the wife stopped breast feeding, I looked after two of them one day a week for many years when she was pursuing her career in the health service... to be dream-husband stuff. Still, I can see how resentment would grow if she were wishing she were the one home with the kids. Giotto, have you tried having some "rules" for physical intimacy outside of sex? In a situation like yours, she probably feels chronically pressured for sex even if you do nothing to pressure her. She knows the reality: you want sex from her. (of course!) That reality can make a person wary of any kind of touch, thinking it will frustrate you, or lead to pressure, or just bring up the uncomfortable subject even mentally... So, could you agree to rules that for a week, for example, you will sit together for one hour a day and cuddle, hold hands, touch--but no sex allowed, period. Even if she begged, none allowed. So the pressure is off~~enjoy the touch for what it is, with the goal of associating more relaxed feelings with touch. Have you tried something like that in the past? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 She will call one man unattractive because he is a cheater or he is rude. Yet another man will be considered desirable because of his honesty and faithfulness to his wife and family. I wonder if she considers that the "desirable" man's faithfulness and commitment might be tied to the fact that he is sexually fulfilled by his marriage and the "unattractive" man's cheating might be based on his sexual frustration ??? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 So the pressure is off~~enjoy the touch for what it is, with the goal of associating more relaxed feelings with touch. Have you tried something like that in the past? we are doing that... just cuddles and kisses (well, kisses very rarely) with no sex as ultimate goal... she suggested it... doesn't happen very often at all, though, and it's always me starting it... I had no idea this stuff was so difficult for her to resolve... just because I got "angry" once in 6 months, we are back to square one... no sex for 35 days now... we only had sex once in the previous month... I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel... daughter is sleeping in our bed tonight, so back in my office on the camping bed... Link to post Share on other sites
BettyBoop Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 no sex for 35 days now... we only had sex once in the previous month... That's more than I thought you were having though! How come it happened back then? What triggered it? What set the mood? Perhaps there was something that could make history repeat itself? Giotto, have you thought about just starting to dress up? Men i nice shirts are sexy (you know blue, white etc - office style)! Perhaps if you felt more sexy your wife would see you that way too? Confidence is sexy... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 6, 2010 Author Share Posted March 6, 2010 Giotto, have you thought about just starting to dress up? Men i nice shirts are sexy (you know blue, white etc - office style)! Perhaps if you felt more sexy your wife would see you that way too? Confidence is sexy... Doesn't matter what I do at the moment... I could be Mister Universe, really... How come it happened back then? What triggered it? What set the mood? Perhaps there was something that could make history repeat itself? That was because I said I was leaving (and I was) so she made the effort to have sex with me regularly to keep the family together. We were having sex roughly once every 10 days and I was over the moon... this lasted about 9 months... then last December/January we stopped... I don't know why... we got back to once a month and one day - when the wife said again she wasn't in the mood - I just remarked that I wasn't going back to the ugly place I was in before. She accused me of checking the calendar every two minutes and that was putting her off. Again, she retreated in herself and now we are in the "healing period", which will last God knows how long... she has to "reset" herself... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 6, 2010 Author Share Posted March 6, 2010 You can take her to a nice vacation without the kids so she's relax and careless.. more money down the drain... tried everything, believe me... Link to post Share on other sites
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