Would you stay in a sexless marriage?

[carhill]

She needs someone to tell her that she either needs to stick with a schedule - 10 days max - OR - she needs to agree that when you give her a polite / non angry reminder - she needs to respond.

 

Great boundary IMO, mem11363. This is a very reasonable 'bend' that the wife should have no issues agreeing with, especially if she enjoys sex when it happens as much as the OP related in the most recent encounter.

 

I learned to use the word 'unacceptable' when describing behaviors and how I felt. Inherently, this is a conflict word. It can also be a facilitative word if there is empathy or care. If there is none, walk. That path is far healthier, IMO.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Well I think sometimes, you get your satisfaction from your partner getting that (mind blowing) Orgasm.

 

When I went to IC before, I was told that I am social and I draw happiness from other people happiness. Could it be the same for you, the fact that your partner draw satisfaction from you, it makes you happy.

 

All these sex talks make me depressed

 

 

Can only imagine how you feel...... But for today I am happy for Giotto:D.....

[BettyBoop]

So my question for you Bettyboop..... Love sex but can't (don't) orgasm.... How is that and have you not been able to do it by yourself?

 

Well I never managed to on my own nor with men or vibrator. My boyfriend says it's all in my head, and it probably is so but still. I can't get "over the hill" so to speak. Only just before finishing line sort of. With my ex-fiancé basically I could make it really really nice but it then all of sudden I'd become too sensitive and it would hurt so I had to stop.

 

It's always like that - I can't get "over the hill" sort of... but you know the best sex I ever had was with the ex-fiancé where I could get to the "almost at the hill but still no" part. It was nice enough and made me want to have sex all the time just to get that nice feeling that came from it. I was never frustrated I didn't "get further" than that...I thought it was nice enough just to "almost get there"... So frankly, not getting an orgasm but almost getting there was well enough for me to keep wanting to do it like a bunny. ^^

 

The reason it went that well was because my ex was VERY well equipped so it went really well to sort of "rub" myself against him to get there. My current one isn't so that way doesn't work anymore. So basically instead of getting "almost to the top of the hill" always I am lucky if I get there once or twice out of 20 times of sex with him. So I do have less urge to have sex than with my ex-fiancé. XP

 

I do love the intimacy though.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

G,

Who is responsible for initiating on a regular basis? Her or you? If she is responsible - which is how it should be - what is your agreement for how you should remind her when she forgets? Because there is a low impact way to remind someone - for us, right after dinner I say "tonight?" as a question. Just that one word.

 

But somehow you need to create a dynamic where when you "remind" her, she knows that within a few days she needs to connect with you.

 

My wife has created a large bank of good will over the years by being generous about our differences. So sometimes we DO argue about sex - she is saying we should - I am saying I can wait. The night before I left for my 3 day weekend - we did NOT connect because I told her to go to sleep and she gratefully did so. Last night we had the following exchange:

Me: what kind of night are we having?

Her: a fun night

Me: I have a keen ear for distinguishing between the sound of desire and the sound of obligation - (this was said with a laugh)

Her: It has been a whole week

Me: I love you enough to be patient

Her: I love you enough to want to make you happy

Me: I

Her: Interrupting - "I am the youngest, end of conversation - go take a shower"

 

I mention this exchange because I "did" remind her, figuring that sometime in the next few days we would connect - but she could tell from my tone that I wasn't angry/annoyed and in fact really was willing to give her some more space.

 

And if she had taken me up on that - and not connected with me, I would have been fine, but within a few days I would have just said in a pained but not angry tone "baby - I am dying - mercy" which always produces the same result - sympathy and sympathetic sex that night. Not very flattering to my self image but certainly a confirmation she still cares how I feel.

 

 

You ahve a very loving marriage.... One I never knew or believed existed (in terms of sex that is).....

[BettyBoop]

Could it be the same for you, the fact that your partner draw satisfaction from you, it makes you happy.

 

I just think it's fine as long as it doesn't hurt. But yes it makes me very happy to be able to make him come and be sexually satisfied. It makes me feel like I am a good girlfriend who can satisfy my man. I just don't understand how a woman who actually could have real orgasms wouldn't want to be doing it 24-7... I mean when I had a partner who could almost get me there I just couldn't get enough of that...

 

And I do agree Giotto is easy. I wish my man wanted me every time I showed up wearing tight tops and lingerine! Was the top a sign to show you she wanted sex then? Since she told you that you were having sex last night in advance? I could never plan anything like that though...for me it has to be spontaneous because I cannot tell whether or not I will be in the mood in advance...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Well I never managed to on my own nor with men or vibrator. My boyfriend says it's all in my head, and it probably is so but still. I can't get "over the hill" so to speak. Only just before finishing line sort of. With my ex-fiancé basically I could make it really really nice but it then all of sudden I'd become too sensitive and it would hurt so I had to stop.

 

It's always like that - I can't get "over the hill" sort of... but you know the best sex I ever had was with the ex-fiancé where I could get to the "almost at the hill but still no" part. It was nice enough and made me want to have sex all the time just to get that nice feeling that came from it. I was never frustrated I didn't "get further" than that...I thought it was nice enough just to "almost get there"... So frankly, not getting an orgasm but almost getting there was well enough for me to keep wanting to do it like a bunny. ^^

 

The reason it went that well was because my ex was VERY well equipped so it went really well to sort of "rub" myself against him to get there. My current one isn't so that way doesn't work anymore. So basically instead of getting "almost to the top of the hill" always I am lucky if I get there once or twice out of 20 times of sex with him. So I do have less urge to have sex than with my ex-fiancé. XP

 

I do love the intimacy though.

 

Does this include oral????? Most women (though not sure I believe the stats) don't reach Orgasm solely through penis/vaginal contact.....

[Luv2dance]

So glad to hear she at least stuck to her promise and that it was GOOD I also think that coming up with some boundaries and guidelines is not a bad thing at all. We all want it to be wild and spontaneous but that apparently doesn't work for many couples. Here's hoping that this is a turn for the better!!

 

Yes, but I am the 20-something woman with no kids! ^^ So I don't know how much kids could kill my sex drive. Besides, I've never orgasmed and still want to have sex...and I think that if I could orgasm I'd want it even more often. So it's a mystery to us both!

 

Girl if you already enjoy it that much w/o the big O, I can promise once you do orgasm you WILL be wanting it 24/7.

[BettyBoop]

Does this include oral????? Most women (though not sure I believe the stats) don't reach Orgasm solely through penis/vaginal contact.....

 

Oral from current has gotten me to the "almost at the hill but not over it" maybe twice. He gets very frustrated he can't get me "over the hill" though. I don't mind but it's a big deal for him...unfortunately. It just puts preassure on me and makes me feel bad I cannot give him what he wants me to have.

[BettyBoop]

Girl if you already enjoy it that much w/o the big O, I can promise once you do orgasm you WILL be wanting it 24/7.

 

Lol yeah I suppose. If I ever get there. However, my orgasms are to be discussed some other time in another thread before I'm hijacking Giotto's thread. ^^'

[cuppa]

I just think it's fine as long as it doesn't hurt. But yes it makes me very happy to be able to make him come and be sexually satisfied. It makes me feel like I am a good girlfriend who can satisfy my man. I just don't understand how a woman who actually could have real orgasms wouldn't want to be doing it 24-7... I mean when I had a partner who could almost get me there I just couldn't get enough of that...

 

 

For women, "O" is more of emotional than physical I think. I used to have them every single time (and fast too) but for the past years, it's difficult. Part of it, because of what happened in my marriage, I don't feel as desirable in bed and I am constantly worried that he might stop and go cramping at anytime (and embarassed for the both of us). So this constant worrying and not able to please him, it kind of messes me up in the head...

[giotto]

This is the dynamic that the therapist needs to help you/her change. Because basically the deal you are agreeing to does NOT work and is not even close to fair. It is basically this:

- You agree to a frequency that is borderline sexual starvation

- You are NOT ALLOWED to mention your needs when they are ignored because that "makes her feel pressured" guess what - feeling ignored makes you feel angry.

 

This approach is just wrong - it is abusive. It is WHY when you do eventually react you explode. She needs someone to tell her that she either needs to stick with a schedule - 10 days max - OR - she needs to agree that when you give her a polite / non angry reminder - she needs to respond.

 

I know that the term bully has been applied to me - I don't feel bad when you guys say that because I KNOW I am not a bully. But what is happening here is your WIFE is bullying YOU with this type structure.

 

I wish I could do all of this... it just doesn't work with her.. she runs back into her shell... it has to be a subtle psychological game... unfortunately, I'm not always able to play psychological games, especially after 2 weeks of no sex... I really do hope all this will change with therapy... but I doubt it she will go. I got the impression she's decided to give me sex so I'm happy and she doesn't have to face all the difficult bits...

[giotto]

Gosh, you are so "easy" giotto. I wish I could drive my hubby wild with just a tight top. Just out of curiousity, what does she wear if she's not in the mood? Pajama?

 

I'm easily pleased and... aroused...

 

She usually wears a sleeveless top and a pair of pyjamas bottoms... not the sexiest thing in the world... but if the top is tight enough... she has never - ever - worn any lingerie for me...

[Neutrino]

I'm easily pleased and... aroused...

 

She usually wears a sleeveless top and a pair of pyjamas bottoms... not the sexiest thing in the world... but if the top is tight enough... she has never - ever - worn any lingerie for me...

 

IMO sex is an inseparable part of romantic love..

 

Forgive me for asking Giotto and I honestly mean no offense, but are you willing to go the rest of your life without seeing any passion in your partner's eyes ? Is the notion she's doing you an unpleasant favor enough ?

 

Sorry man, I just don't get it... What was she like before your got married ?

[giotto]

Forgive me for asking Giotto and I honestly mean no offense, but are you willing to go the rest of your life without seeing any passion in your partner's eyes ? Is the notion she's doing you an unpleasant favor enough ?

 

Sorry man, I just don't get it... What was she like before your got married ?

 

she is passionate when we have sex... if it's pity sex, I don't know. She says it's not. She wants to have sex with me and it's far from unpleasant...

 

As far as the passion is concerned, she's never been very physical, since the beginning. But she was physical enough for me to want to marry her...

I'm used to it and anyway the dynamics in our relationship are now as such that I doubt we will ever be very physical again...

 

If I have to be 100% honest, I'm not very happy about our relationship. I'm not very happy about the person she's become. She is not the same person. Maybe I have contributed to these changes, and I know she doesn't love me like she used to (her own words). I'm not very happy about what she's done to me and the pain she's inflicted to me. I don't think I can ever forgive her, even if she didn't do it on purpose and it was her defense mechanism. I dream at night of the day when I'll be freed from this emotional prison...

Edited March 10, 2010 by giotto

[BettyBoop]

she has never - ever - worn any lingerie for me...

 

That made me sad to read. What I love about having a partner is to go buy sexy and cute lingerine and stuff to show off to try to make him see something "new and exciting" about me...

 

This is so silly because I've read sooo many threads here from women who try everything in *their* sexless marriages and try hot lingerine and everything. Giotto, have you ever bought your W some hot lingerine and asked her to wear it for you?

[BettyBoop]

She is not the same person.

 

People change throughout their life depending on what happens to us. It is not fair to expect the person to be the very same person we met/married 5-10 years later, you know. No matter who'd you'd marry they would have changed some.

 

However, sometimes you wake up one day and realise that instead of growing together - you grew apart. But don't focus on that she isn't the same person anymore...she will never be. You'd have to love her for who she is now.

 

However, I think it is sort of bad to tell one's husband "I don't love you like I used to". That would break my heart beyond repair.

[giotto]

That made me sad to read. What I love about having a partner is to go buy sexy and cute lingerine and stuff to show off to try to make him see something "new and exciting" about me...

 

This is so silly because I've read sooo many threads here from women who try everything in *their* sexless marriages and try hot lingerine and everything. Giotto, have you ever bought your W some hot lingerine and asked her to wear it for you?

 

well, I'm sad as well... No, I never bought her any lingerie (reasons shortly), but at the beginning I asked her to wear stuff which I found titillating... maybe a short skirt or a low-cut top and she was fine about it... but when we started having problems, I knew that buying her lingerie would have meant putting her under pressure... and she hated that.

 

However, I think it is sort of bad to tell one's husband "I don't love you like I used to". That would break my heart beyond repair.

 

I was shocked! And she she kind of shrugged it off saying I must have felt the same... but I still loved her like the first day... well, that was the beginning of the end, as far as I was concerned. I couldn't see our marriage in the same way, after that...

[xxoo]

I wish I could do all of this... it just doesn't work with her.. she runs back into her shell... it has to be a subtle psychological game... unfortunately, I'm not always able to play psychological games, especially after 2 weeks of no sex... I really do hope all this will change with therapy... but I doubt it she will go. I got the impression she's decided to give me sex so I'm happy and she doesn't have to face all the difficult bits...

 

I strongly agree with mem on this point:

 

she needs to agree that when you give her a polite / non angry reminder - she needs to respond.

 

Her response need not be "yes" or "tomorrow", but she needs to be able to hear your non-angry need and respond with love and concern (even if not willingness). That would probably be my "limit". If I could not even talk to my partner about my needs without him freaking out or withdrawing for weeks, that's not a marriage. On that point alone, I'd give an ultimatum: therapy or I leave.

 

Can you bring it up now, while the good feelings of your night together are still fresh to buffer the anxieties?

[giotto]

Can you bring it up now, while the good feelings of your night together are still fresh to buffer the anxieties?

 

mmm...

 

Well, you know, she says she is scared of me, and I'm scared of her! I think it's still early days to bring it up... she's made an effort and I don't really want to destroy everything by jumping on her (because this is how she will perceive it) too soon...

[JamesM]

Giotto, we have many similarities in our marriages, but there are a couple of huge differences. And those differences make it much much easier for me to stay in a marriage with less sex than I would like.

 

What struck me is reading (after Betty Boop quoted it) the comment that your wife says she does not love you like she did in the past. To me that would be a deal breaker (maybe...or a challenge) and a heart breaker. That is the one thing my wife has said over and over...she loves me more than she ever did and she never doubts that love. She also says that she wishes she had more of an interest in sex because she knows how much happier it would make me. Even when she told me that I may need to get sex elsewhere, she did not say that she loved me less.

 

To tell a partner that he or she is not loved as before indicates that the less sex is much more than a physical disinterest in sex and more of a problem in the relationship. While it is entirely possible that her emotional/mental issues could cause her to feel that she loves you less (when in reality her love has not changed but has been "clouded" by her mental confusion), it also says something deeper.

 

Perhaps MC is the only route to go. Not IC but MC. While there is always hope for every one and every marriage, this one will take work by BOTH partners. You cannot fix this by yourself. IMO.

[OWoman]

Giotto, we have many similarities in our marriages, but there are a couple of huge differences. And those differences make it much much easier for me to stay in a marriage with less sex than I would like.

 

What struck me is reading (after Betty Boop quoted it) the comment that your wife says she does not love you like she did in the past. To me that would be a deal breaker (maybe...or a challenge) and a heart breaker. That is the one thing my wife has said over and over...she loves me more than she ever did and she never doubts that love. She also says that she wishes she had more of an interest in sex because she knows how much happier it would make me. Even when she told me that I may need to get sex elsewhere, she did not say that she loved me less.

 

To tell a partner that he or she is not loved as before indicates that the less sex is much more than a physical disinterest in sex and more of a problem in the relationship. While it is entirely possible that her emotional/mental issues could cause her to feel that she loves you less (when in reality her love has not changed but has been "clouded" by her mental confusion), it also says something deeper.

 

Perhaps MC is the only route to go. Not IC but MC. While there is always hope for every one and every marriage, this one will take work by BOTH partners. You cannot fix this by yourself. IMO.

 

I agree with James. This sounds to me like a R issue, not a sex issue. While the sex issue may be at the root of it, the emotional detachment is really worrying. That you're becoming afraid of each other - and afraid to be honest with each other (or at least, afraid to raise delicate matters - however important - with each other) is of concern. Unhealthy patterns could be set if that isn't addressed - and a supportive MC context where you can raise that in a contained, supportive and unthreatening way might be your best way of approaching it.

[giotto]

Giotto, we have many similarities in our marriages, but there are a couple of huge differences. And those differences make it much much easier for me to stay in a marriage with less sex than I would like.

 

What struck me is reading (after Betty Boop quoted it) the comment that your wife says she does not love you like she did in the past. To me that would be a deal breaker (maybe...or a challenge) and a heart breaker. That is the one thing my wife has said over and over...she loves me more than she ever did and she never doubts that love. She also says that she wishes she had more of an interest in sex because she knows how much happier it would make me. Even when she told me that I may need to get sex elsewhere, she did not say that she loved me less.

 

To tell a partner that he or she is not loved as before indicates that the less sex is much more than a physical disinterest in sex and more of a problem in the relationship. While it is entirely possible that her emotional/mental issues could cause her to feel that she loves you less (when in reality her love has not changed but has been "clouded" by her mental confusion), it also says something deeper.

 

Perhaps MC is the only route to go. Not IC but MC. While there is always hope for every one and every marriage, this one will take work by BOTH partners. You cannot fix this by yourself. IMO.

 

well, James, it is a difference and a huge different. She did say that some time ago (a couple of years ago and then again last year in the car after MC), but then the other day she did say she does love me. I still don't think she loves me like when we met. You know, you say it would be a deal breaker for you, but I'm perfectly aware that people change in marriage and grow apart. I was shocked, but then I rationalized it, as usual. She didn't say she had fallen out of love with me, but just that her love for me had changed...maybe it was just a different way of saying "I love you but..."

 

Thinking about the past, I'm quite amazed of how resilient I've been...but I do care deeply about my family. I was disappointed to see our "love story" dissolving, but then can you be in love all your life? I kind of accepted it... maybe it was a mistake.

[giotto]

I agree with James. This sounds to me like a R issue, not a sex issue. While the sex issue may be at the root of it, the emotional detachment is really worrying. That you're becoming afraid of each other - and afraid to be honest with each other (or at least, afraid to raise delicate matters - however important - with each other) is of concern. Unhealthy patterns could be set if that isn't addressed - and a supportive MC context where you can raise that in a contained, supportive and unthreatening way might be your best way of approaching it.

 

oh, yes, it's definitely a relationship issue. Unhealthy patterns? You bet! They are already there! They've been there for years.

 

About MC: we've been... it served no purpose because the only way to resolve our problems is for her to talk about them and she won't. It's a waste of time and money.

 

Also, the relationship is unfixable until she fixes herself. She still has done nothing about therapy. She won't. She is giving me sex to keep me quiet, so she doesn't have to face her ghosts... I know this now...

 

To be honest, all I want at the age of 47 is a quiet life, with a bit of (hot) sex thrown in , a happy wife (if she can ever be happy) and healthy children, until the 9 years old goes to uni... then I'll probably be off...

[xxoo]

mmm...

 

Well, you know, she says she is scared of me, and I'm scared of her! I think it's still early days to bring it up... she's made an effort and I don't really want to destroy everything by jumping on her (because this is how she will perceive it) too soon...

 

But if the conversation is always paired with the condition of "long time since last sex", then it would of course be construed as pressure, or an attempt to have sex soon.

 

Pairing the conversation with the condition of "just had sex and satisfied for the time being", the conversation has a better chance of being about the communication alone.

 

Thus far, she seems to resolve the conversation with sex. But, as others are saying, this is a R issue, first and foremost. It isn't fixed with sex. It is fixed with communication and counseling.

 

About love lasting lifelong--yes, I believe it can. Lust, no. But love, yes. Absolutely. But I'm not convinced your wife's love is gone. She has too many other issues to explore before she can know that for sure.

[OWoman]

oh, yes, it's definitely a relationship issue. Unhealthy patterns? You bet! They are already there! They've been there for years.

 

About MC: we've been... it served no purpose because the only way to resolve our problems is for her to talk about them and she won't. It's a waste of time and money.

 

Also, the relationship is unfixable until she fixes herself. She still has done nothing about therapy. She won't. She is giving me sex to keep me quiet, so she doesn't have to face her ghosts... I know this now...

 

To be honest, all I want at the age of 47 is a quiet life, with a bit of (hot) sex thrown in , a happy wife (if she can ever be happy) and healthy children, until the 9 years old goes to uni... then I'll probably be off...

 

Giotto, you sound so sad, so resigned.... (((((hug))))) You're only 47!! Far too young to be sliding into middle aged depression!