My H's personality

[You Go Girl]

ok--butterflies in my stomach--here I go--it's so easy to give good advice and so much more difficult to open up to my raw emotions here.

I've been avoiding telling my story.

 

My H is hard working and successful. Financial ducks always in a row. Respected in IT field. Comes home and makes dinner. Very financially generous.

Old school like mafia thinking. Drinks too often, and often too much. Has a porn addiction. Lies when he deems it is not my business, whether he is using porn or drinking, or anything else he deems not necessary for me to know. Thinks that's his business since he pays the bills. Like a husband from the 50's.

Is computer security expert. Monitors my use. Probably will read this, as I found a keylogger on this puter months ago, which he claims he turned off 1/2 hour after installation.

But, when one has a history of monitoring their spouse and what to believe? Keylogger was just a test for himself, or...on me? He could be innocent on that one, I'll never know.

Sometimes I feel like he's Tony Soprano and I'm Carmilla.

 

What's my question, I'm not sure. You ask the questions of me. What I'm focusing on is personality type because he feels entitled to lie and continue behaviors I don't agree nor approve of because as he sees it, it doesn't hurt me.

It's like he thinks he's above the rules of honest intimacy. Arrogant that way. But he's entitled because--he's alpha powered male.

 

Me--very strong insistance on honesty in relationships. Feels it is tied to respect and equality. Recipe to clash from the get-go. Yet some aspect of my personality isn't as strong as I think it is--or I wouldn't have found myself in this situation. Yet I'm the one who forces the issues, and he's the one that hides. There we find the role reversal--me the alpha female in your face type, he the crying boy.

It's a very unusual setup. or is it?

Help me get my head on straight.

[mikeymad]

Ygg, you've given me some really great advice, so allow me to weigh in on your situation. Relationship dynamics often come as a result of our adaptive-survivor techniques we learned through our childhood and past relationships as a way to cope with certain situations. We often find people who are the opposite of us. What were both of your family of origin like?

Example: Children of alcoholic/abusive homes often become over-responsible, trying to take care of everything and everyone. They often look for a "wounded" person or someone under-responsible to take care of in a relationship.

 

The type A personality, hard work, financial success and a seemingly submissive wife along with the lying and justifiying it is all about control. Even if you look at the pornography industry, it is pretty much all based around one thing-male domination of submissive females. The two are pretty interconnected. Does that translate into the bedroom? Is he constantly trying to "get his way"? Do you work? How are the chores divided in the house?

 

Yet under the surface, he seems like many, that they fear a lack of control, could be something from when he was younger. When you lash out at him, he sees the error of his ways, but with a lack of holding him responsible with consequences, I bet either he blows it off, or it's back to the same old habits after a short while.

Edited February 26, 2010 by mikeymad

[You Go Girl]

Thanks for weighing in Mike. This could and hopefully will end up being a long thread--because I really don't understand these dynamics.

 

My H reminds me of my father. It's a scary thought. My father was dominant and all of us feared him. He would lash out with corporal punishment often on us 5, never my mother. My parents didn't drink. My H has never hit me, but has worked fear into the relationship when I have threatened to leave. Now he just says that if I completely leave--he will just let me go. But he has a little plan in the works to punish me for leaving, and I know exactly what it is, a financial thing.

His family I don't know. He is 10 yrs older than me and both his parents are deceased. His sister is distant, and I have nothing to go on. I know his father was a quiet control type, and his mother the type to lash out. It seems I have some traits of his mother, and my mother, and he, my father and his father. I haven't been able to figure out if his parents drank too much, although I know they did drink, cocktail after work type of thing.

We both are very stubborn people. Very! Once I found out he was lying to me, all bets were off as far as I was concerned, and I rebelled with letting him cook if we are to eat, that type of thing. I refuse to be his house-keeper too. Can't say that my rebellion has done any good.

I married him for one reason--I thought we loved each other and that our intimacy came first before everything else in life. I wouldn't have married him otherwise. It was a complete shock when I found him lying to me about anything--what it is--really doesn't seem to matter.

I work part-time. I am an antique dealer. I am ramping that up slowly to full-time. I'm a procrastinator. I have the ability to be financially indepdendent, but I don't do it. This may soon become a necessity of course, if i leave fully.

80% of what I own is at my cottage from having left him on numerous occasions and come back.

I have been on the couch for 8 months. Prior to that, our sex life seemed fair enough. Sometimes me submissive, other times him.

It's stalemate right now. He does nothing about the alcohol or porn or lying.

What he's expecting me to do --I don't know. Either he thinks I will ramp up the antique dealing enough to leave completely--or he thinks I will cave and let him continue being himself. I don't know which one he thinks i am going to do.

It feels to me like he's saying--this is who I am--take it or leave it, and a feeling that he gives enough, and that if I don't love him for who he is--then I don't love him really at all.

But I also feel alcohol has clouded his understanding of life. He has a history of failed marriages. Often he seems to laugh in life's face type of arrogance. That he's battled life's punches long enough, and he's given all he has to give.

[Brooke79]

Ygg ur hubs sounds like mine. He doesn't necessarily dominate our finances, we contribute equally, but when questioned about his phone, his response is don't ask me about my phone, I pay the bill. Just a basic lack of respect if you ask me. Its quite disgusting to me, I have no more fight left in me. My husband thinks everything is ok. I tried to get the truth out of him. And it only stresses me out, because he lies and lies and lies and yells to deflect from telling the truth. Just a cycle that gets me all upset with no results. My recommendation is to run fast because trying to effectively is like beating yourself in the head, its pointless. Their egos and lies mean more to them than having open honest communication.

[Steadfast]

1) Do you suspect cheating?

 

2) Are you afraid for your physical well being? Does he have a temper?

 

3) When lying occurs, it's hard to believe anything. You have no foundation.

 

4) He seems to acquiesce when you rebel, but quickly moves back to his main personality? That smacks of serious control issues with underlying fear. He is not indestructible, yet will only bend so far before bringing out the weapons.

 

At the very least and based on your response, it's time for a ultimatum concerning marriage counseling. Your relationship is sick; time to see a professional.

[FeelingLonely98]

Do you feel the M has been damaged beyond repair?

Are you just looking for a greater understanding of your M dynamic?

Have you two tried counseling?

Have you told him how much his ways hurt you?

Do you two have children together?

 

Too many questions for me (and probably others) before I can weigh in ...

[You Go Girl]

Lies are a problem indeed, Brooke. Your H and mine may have that in common, and I'd like to get to the heart of that, because they have little else in common.

I took a peek at your opening thread, and my H would never do what yours does. Mine is the attentive type, always there should I need him or want him. Over the top actually--with the gifts, flowers, foot massages, etc.

That is, when he's not too enubriated.

But then he also believes he has a right to a secret life with porn girls. Like--I take care of you when I'm with you--and what I do when I'm alone is MYOB.

As if...I do these good things in life, so I am entitled to getting drunk and having a mental porn orgy, and lying when I don't think it's any of your business. Now you wifey--just concentrate on what I give you when I'm with you, and turn a blind eye to the rest.

Tony Soprano stuff.

[carhill]

So, are you married to the lifestyle? Honest question, since I know a few married ladies who indeed are, and 'put up' with certain aspects of their H's because they don't wish to lose their socio-economic status. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

He's not going to change. It's who he is. He will die that way. You will see minor blips of change if he has a life-altering event, like facing death, but, once resolved, he'll be back to the same tune. Accept that

[You Go Girl]

1) Do you suspect cheating?

 

2) Are you afraid for your physical well being? Does he have a temper?

 

3) When lying occurs, it's hard to believe anything. You have no foundation.

 

4) He seems to acquiesce when you rebel, but quickly moves back to his main personality? That smacks of serious control issues with underlying fear. He is not indestructible, yet will only bend so far before bringing out the weapons.

 

At the very least and based on your response, it's time for a ultimatum concerning marriage counseling. Your relationship is sick; time to see a professional.

 

Don't know about cheating, steadfast. I would think not--but who knows, maybe that's my blindness.

We've been down the he was going to kill me or himself road when he has been drunk on a few occasions. I think that is finally settled that he is going to stop that drama. I brought it out in the open and even told my family, and he knows I told my family. Since then he's backed off completely with threats, saying he couldn't believe he said it in the first place.

He will only bend so far before bringing out the weapons--what does that mean? On the serious control issues--I suppose you are right. I can't see it clearly though because I'm in the forest, can't see the forest for the trees type of thing. He moves almost immediately back to old behaviors.

 

Demanded counseling before Thanksgiving. He said would have to be after that holiday. I have brought it up again 3 weeks ago to remind him. He has done nothing. Isn't that a message in itself? And then there's fear for him probably of being backed into a corner with no escape.

[You Go Girl]

Do you feel the M has been damaged beyond repair?

Are you just looking for a greater understanding of your M dynamic?

Have you two tried counseling?

Have you told him how much his ways hurt you?

Do you two have children together?

 

Too many questions for me (and probably others) before I can weigh in ...

 

Beyond repair--if I saw honest atonement, then no. But I've been trying to see remorse for 5 years and haven't seen it!

Yes, looking for greater understanding. Seems to be a need of mine even if there was remorse on his part, and if there isn't too. I want to know what the hell I've been through.

Told him about hurt absolutely--5 years ago crying screaming it to him, now I don't say a word.

No children from this second marriage, I am free to go as far as that is concerned.

[ann09]

While my H doesn't have a drinking or porn problem (at least not that i know of) I can relate to the financial thing. He is and always has been very mature - much more so than I. Always has had his head on straight - me - not so much. When we were dating he began to control my finances....had our lives literally mapped out. I was more carefree and had the "who cares" attitude. But at the time I liked his "mature-ness".

 

I don't like "roles" in a relationship. Sure theres always going to be the one that makes more money or handles the finances better. But when one acts above the other and uses that as control - the balance gets set off too much and it's never a good outcome.

 

Do you have kids?

[You Go Girl]

So, are you married to the lifestyle? Honest question, since I know a few married ladies who indeed are, and 'put up' with certain aspects of their H's because they don't wish to lose their socio-economic status. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

He's not going to change. It's who he is. He will die that way. You will see minor blips of change if he has a life-altering event, like facing death, but, once resolved, he'll be back to the same tune. Accept that

 

Oh gawd no, carhill. BTW, thanks for chiming in. I've read some of your responses and you have excellent insight on many occasions. I was an English major and yet I am jealous of your vocabulary. You really have a master of the language.

Interesting you should bring it up though--he was in the "lifestyle" in past relationship, which really makes me very uncomfortable. I have been uncomfortable with his past sexuality from several stories of his. I thought we had settled before we were married that we were to be monogamous.

 

I really have only small fears of losing his 6 figure income. It's not money that keeps me here. It's only that I thought we truly loved each other deeply.

You may have the deepest insight right there in the he's not going to change remark--everything points to exactly that.

Perhaps the lesson to be learned in that is that I place my importance in his life too high. That what I need to accept is that he willfully will sacrifice having me around to continue being ...himself.

And who wouldn't--if that's who we are.

I suppose I am confused because he's a very intelligent individual--who has done things like given up a promotion to be COO--to come to my state and marry me, and given so generously of himself. So I think--why can't he give up addictions then? Nothing is more important than us--we both agree on that.

Yet when I ask he stops his addictions--it becomes an assault on his manhood and independence.

[You Go Girl]

While my H doesn't have a drinking or porn problem (at least not that i know of) I can relate to the financial thing. He is and always has been very mature - much more so than I. Always has had his head on straight - me - not so much. When we were dating he began to control my finances....had our lives literally mapped out. I was more carefree and had the "who cares" attitude. But at the time I liked his "mature-ness".

 

I don't like "roles" in a relationship. Sure theres always going to be the one that makes more money or handles the finances better. But when one acts above the other and uses that as control - the balance gets set off too much and it's never a good outcome.

 

Do you have kids?

 

No kids with him, both of ours are grown and on their own now.

 

There is something interesting in the financial part of this relationship. The day he moved into my place he took over the finances. I had been financially irresponsible to no serious degree--but still, he moved into my place. He saw it as helping me, contributing, being generous, and yes, being a hero man. I let him...but not without pause...I had been single for a few years.

He takes great pride in how much he makes.

He liked feeling the man of the house type of thing--so I let him, which is another reason I have only worked part-time. His ego seemed to need it. I believe he feels proud when I make a terrific profit on reselling an antique--and yet angry should I decide to fully leave...I've had one foot in the door and one out for a year now, and he knows it.

[carhill]

Question: Was he a swinger in the past?

 

WRT 'giving up' stuff, this ties into my prior comments about it being who he is. It's possible the overt generosity balances out/is adjunct to narcissistic behaviors in other areas. For some men, it's part of a 'god' complex where they survey, manage and assist their 'subjects'. It can be a tremendous ego feed.

 

I've heard your words from female friends. My response has always been 'he's who you were/are attracted to and want to be with. Accept that. TBH, if he wasn't like that (the totality of aspects), you likely wouldn't be attracted to him.' IMO, that's OK, as long as they (and you) are OK with it. The one commonality is acceptance.

[You Go Girl]

Question: Was he a swinger in the past?

 

WRT 'giving up' stuff, this ties into my prior comments about it being who he is. It's possible the overt generosity balances out/is adjunct to narcissistic behaviors in other areas. For some men, it's part of a 'god' complex where they survey, manage and assist their 'subjects'. It can be a tremendous ego feed.

 

I've heard your words from female friends. My response has always been 'he's who you were/are attracted to and want to be with. Accept that. TBH, if he wasn't like that (the totality of aspects), you likely wouldn't be attracted to him.' IMO, that's OK, as long as they (and you) are OK with it. The one commonality is acceptance.

 

I can't believe how quickly you keyed into that aspect. Yes, he was a swinger. It went badly in the end, so I, in my naivete? thought he had learned it doesn't work. The thing I never will know I suppose is if his mother was submissive to that sort of thing. He definitely gets his beliefs on porn from his father. Nothing like that ever went on in my house, and my mother would never have allowed it.

He also had a sexual encounter at far too young of an age. Now I will reveal no more on the details of that, it's too private, so please don't anybody ask. My point being--his sexual boundaries are nearly non-existant.

I never intended on letting that cat out of the bag, and I never thought somebody would sense it, or so quickly.

What is "WRT" ? Until I know that I can't understand the 'giving up stuff' sentence. But the rest of that paragraph--I think you've nailed him.

 

Oh boy. These very traits drew me to him. swallows hard. I was never with the alpha demi god before, lol And yes, I was attracted to his power. I almost couldn't believe it--the size of his ego--it was almost amusing to me. I found it incredible that a person could hold themselves above the humble simple beings that I know we all are. yes, opposites do attract. I was impressed by his clout and saying to myself at the same time--I can't believe this. Does this guy take himself for real?

And always believed that there has to be a person underneath who knows he's above no one. And I've seen that side of him too. He's endured far more than most.

The generosity--it's all selfish in the end, eh?

 

And no, it's not ok. Marriage has to be on equal footing. Lies are the most insulting control method, and I'm the firey type that really won't ever accept being lied to. I'm nobody's 'subject'. I won't even work for somebody else, always finding independent contractor jobs or self-employed. I too have my pride.

And that may perhaps sum it all up for good--there will be no acceptance on my part of less than equal footing, disrespect, or lies--which insult my intelligence.

I'm right back inside my head again with this. Same answer every time, yet I never want to accept it. Damned if I do, damned if I don't--I lose either way, I lose my self-respect or I lose him--it will have to be the latter, won't it.

Keep it coming--you guys have been terrific so far--it's taken my breath away since joining this site just how many people will put their energy, time, and insight into a stranger's problem. Maybe humankind has a chance after all.

Now I have to go mail off a few of those antiques that sold yesterday--my reality is to stop procrastination!

[carhill]

Here's a simple concept...

 

You want something (not 'stuff' but rather marital needs). H says (I'll paraphrase) 'I can't give you that'. Do you think it's healthier to fight it or accept it? Why? How does that internal decision affect your feelings about what you perceive to be a healthy balance in your marriage?

 

I don't recall the scope or extent of any counseling you and he may have received, but the concepts I'm discussing here, especially the psychology of acceptance, were elemental breakthroughs for myself in better understand my role in the unhealthiness of my own M.

 

I find such concepts now to function in all aspects of life and see the results every day. I can tell you that, mostly, I'm a lot more calm, even going through a divorce.

 

If you want to stay married and feel healthy about that choice, what has to happen? The only person you control is you.

[mikeymad]

wrt = with regards to, or with respect to.

 

Maybe his moving in, gifting things you, "generosity" etc was merely a game to him. Another "opponent" to conquer and control, and in you falling in love with him might mean he "won" you over. I don't know the situation, but this seems to be a common theme with swingers, maybe his swinging days went badly because he probably got a girl, manipulated her into doing it with him (they don't exactly let in single dudes as far as i know, so she was basically his "ticket" in). Then she finally expressed her jealousy/realization of being used/ got angey and stopped going, their relationship ending and him being exiled from orgyland. He got burned, so the porn thing is now a substitute for that. Situations like that not only require the absolute communication and respect of the other person, but have the potential to exacerbate any minor issue to monumental proportions.

Of course I know these are merely possibilities because we don't know the whole issue, and forgive me if I veered off the path. Sometimes all we can do is "fish" for an issue that might trigger something in your head that can lead us deeper down this rabbit hole.

[You Go Girl]

Here's a simple concept...

 

You want something (not 'stuff' but rather marital needs). H says (I'll paraphrase) 'I can't give you that'. Do you think it's healthier to fight it or accept it? Why? How does that internal decision affect your feelings about what you perceive to be a healthy balance in your marriage?

 

I don't recall the scope or extent of any counseling you and he may have received, but the concepts I'm discussing here, especially the psychology of acceptance, were elemental breakthroughs for myself in better understand my role in the unhealthiness of my own M.

 

If you want to stay married and feel healthy about that choice, what has to happen? The only person you control is you.

 

I've fought it--healthier or not, when it's my basic needs and values. But it's never been him to say--I can't give you that. Never heard that out of his mouth ever. I suppose he says this silently. I'm a in your face type, so I don't get silent communication well.

Just say it already!

Always secretive as to what he really wants, as in the porn.

But--people suggested I go to Al-anon. Utter and complete disaster. Felt reduced to rubble. There the belief is: "he's sick". So alcohol and porn addictions are addictions--not choices. Something wasn't ringing true for me. Now I will fully put that idea behind me, that's he's sick and can't control his own behavior.

Acceptance--I've been working my way to that. Just about there. 8 months on the couch of stalemate will get you there if you have trouble getting there easily, I can proudly claim.

Sometimes we think we're fighting the good fight so we continue. We think there's something worth fighting for.

Acceptance of who he is may fully come, and very soon as March is my deadline I've set.

Acceptance and staying in this marriage is not going to happen. We're not compatible if that is who he is.

I wish he would have just said--I can't give you that. That would have been a response that I could have respected. I also could have moved on, and had a lot less pain from lies.

So honesty is the thing he can't give?

For me, honesty is essential. This is non-negotiable. A marriage isn't worth the piece of paper it's printed on without it.

 

You ask how I could stay married and feel healthy about that choice. I can't without honesty and monogamy. It's impossible for me. I won't give of myself to someone who doesn't deserve me. I can't make him be sober, honest, or monogamous, as you point out, I can't control anybody but me.

What can I change about me to accept him as is and stay?

No can do.

I will read up on psychology of acceptance. I tried 3 different psychs, and none of them were very insightful. Things were dragging along at a snail's pace, which is fine for their pocketbooks, but not for my life. Perhaps I didn't raise the right issues or questions. I'm gaining more from this thread than I did several months in a psychologist's office. Getting to that calm place has eluded me.

[You Go Girl]

wrt = with regards to, or with respect to.

 

Maybe his moving in, gifting things you, "generosity" etc was merely a game to him. Another "opponent" to conquer and control, and in you falling in love with him might mean he "won" you over. I don't know the situation, but this seems to be a common theme with swingers, He got burned, so the porn thing is now a substitute for that. Sometimes all we can do is "fish" for an issue that might trigger something in your head that can lead us deeper down this rabbit hole.

 

He's very generous with many people. It's an aspect of his personality. However, is it for his own ego? Yeah, because the well dries up when he's not getting what he wants. Which really, is normal behavior.

Question is, did Carhill get it right calling it narcisstic? I've long wondered if this is the case with his personality. He gives more than most. He knows this. He knows it will bring him awe from those receiving. But not to overdo it-who gives without wanting recognition? There's a fine line between being normal and generous to a fault. But he has a bit of the old great gatsby in him, yeah.

He didnt' swing in clubs, he had committed relationships that he swung in. His last marriage was not like that at all. She was like me WRT sexual boundaries. (got to use my new chat lingo already!)

The man told me he wanted no one else but me. Even when lying to my face the same day about porn. He chose the song 'I only have eyes for you' as our wedding dance. wtf?

BTW, he was never denied sexually when I found out about the sneaky computer stuff. If he had been, I would have been more understanding.

Keep fishing...

rabbit hole, terrific-

I do feel like Pooh, my head stuck in the sand. Remember Pooh stuck and couldn't get his head back out?

He comes home tonight, and I'm both happy and sad to see him. We share a joke about the cat. Then I walk away.

I won't compromise on certain issues, apparently neither will he.

But I'm so fond of that face, that voice, that sense of humor when it's on.

Maybe I need to leave more than I know. I don't have to live in pain. I'm just so used to it.

[carhill]

OP, assuming your H isn't in the psychologist's office with you, I will opine that the road will be a much more bumpy one. Dealing with the marital conflict with a spouse in that setting was the key to learning new ways of communicating and new ways of understanding and accepting each other's perspective. It was, even if resulting in divorce, a team effort. We were lucky. We had a good psych. Never took notes/recorded sessions but remembered seemingly insignificant details which he'd inject into the dynamic. Very proactive and assertive, yet positive. Every session ended on a positive note. You can get that in IC, but it's only for you and doesn't address the M, which I'm hearing from you is the issue in question.

 

You're engaged (meaning you care); this comes through in your posts. For a marriage to be healthy, both spouses must care, in addition to the other aspects of compatibility.

 

I recall my stbx once commenting in MC that one of her fears of D was that she'd be branded a 'three time loser' (her third M). She addressed that fear, and others, and resolved them. Why stay in something unhealthy out of fear?

 

Posts crossing....

 

Question is, did Carhill get it right calling it narcisstic?

 

Here's one indicator. Is his generosity quiet, almost unknown, and without condition? IOW, the average person who knows him would be surprised at how generous he is. If so, IMO, no narcissistic tendencies in that area.

 

Hope it works out. Life is short

Edited February 26, 2010 by carhill

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Well I'll chime in here. And hopefully I'm not too off base. You can read my story by clicking on my name and finding the only thread I've started.

 

I have been doing much reading and much talking to friends and therapists, and some of what I've realized (mostly recently) about my H might apply to yours.

 

The word power player comes to mind. Someone who needs to have the power. Yes he can be generous when he feels like it. But subconsciously or not it's his way of controlling things. Because then you owe him. Or it's his way of painting a picture of a beautiful life. Look at me I am generous and shower my wife with gifts and I'm a great person, so don't judge me or look too close because you'll see the things I'm hiding. And if you notice them I will lie about them.

 

My H is about 14 years older than I am and VERY responsible with money and financially secure. Even though I didn't need a father figure I was attracted to that stability, always being attracted to older more mature men.

 

I came into the marriage with a Chevy Cavalier and my sparse wardrobe. But with a big heart, level head and a strong work ethic-working 3 jobs and living on my own. I now feel like there is a big issue with us with him feeling like he 'saved me' from that life, therefore we're not equal partners and have never been. Maybe a little of that going on? If he felt he needed to 'help' you by taking over the money. It implies you couldn't do it on your own. And you letting him is like tacit approval. "Yes, you are right, I cannot do it, you must save me"

 

He's definitely getting something out of his behavior. Control? Power? Being able to live his life how he wants without repercussions? Not having to compromise on something that he doesn't want to give up? And if the payoff is so big for him, why would he change? Why would he be willing to change his behavior if in his mind it's going to 'cost' him so much?

 

And in return he acts like you're crazy for imagining that the porn/alcohol is out of control. Because if he can make you feel small you'll regret making a big deal out of it since he's now turned this into something about you. It takes the focus off of him and his behavior.

 

You say his ego needs you to only work part time and therefore be the bread winner in the marriage. You should realize this could also be his way of making it harder for you to leave. I know I use this word a lot but it could be his way of controlling you and keeping you where he wants to. If he's taken over the finances to 'help' you because your finances were in a mess or something like that, then you say it feeds his ego to have you not have to work so much, but it all could be a way to keep you there. And all the while making him feel like 'I'm the man my wife doesn't have to work'. So he's stifling you but at the same time he gets to look like a great provider and the hero. He gets something out of that.

 

For me it comes down to 2 simple questions. Will he change? (probably not) and can you live the rest of your life with him like this? (probably not). I know it's more complicated than that. Believe me read my thread and you'll see how complicated it all can be. But when it comes down to it, those are the questions.

 

What's keeping you there? If you have to stop being who you are to be a part of this marriage then the price is too high.

 

And I know money is a factor, but like Dr. Phil says 'if you marry for money you will earn every penny'. I know you didn't marry for money but if you stay only because of the money and you're worried about that, that's not a reason to stay. You'll earn every penny.

 

"And the time came when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin

[You Go Girl]

OP I recall my stbx once commenting in MC that one of her fears of D was that she'd be branded a 'three time loser' (her third M). She addressed that fear, and others, and resolved them. Why stay in something unhealthy out of fear?

 

Posts crossing....

 

Here's one indicator. Is his generosity quiet, almost unknown, and without condition? IOW, the average person who knows him would be surprised at how generous he is. If so, IMO, no narcissistic tendencies in that area.

 

Hope it works out. Life is short

 

Counseling was to be initiated by one person because the insurance doesn't pay for marital counseling. Then the other would join. We tried that once--he found a young woman who told him to just hide his porn better. Needless to say, she was fired the day I met her and she told me that. He had her hook line and sinker. She was not a very intelligent young woman imho, and he's no stranger to machiavellian manipulation.

 

As for being afraid...do I seem afraid? Becoming a 2x loser isn't that bad I can't live with it. Oh well. Get up and try again one day. Sad thing is me and mystery future man will never know each other young except for pictures we show each other. And all that history to fill in!

That's really a sad reason to stay that your stbx had, Carhill. Really sad. All about her self-image. Pukey!

 

I was rather nervous each year when my birthday would come around. Summertime...

he'd throw a huge surprise party. I'm not fond of surprise parties, and told him, didn't matter, every year I got one. Really put me on the spot in an embarrassing way. Lavish gifts for others to see--sure, especially jewerly. But the worst of it was getting so snockered that I had to take over my own surprise party after he passed out--and I didn't know what was for dinner, where the utensils were, the condiments, etc. It was a real panic for me with 40 people wondering who is watching the grill.

He finally stopped when I made it impossible one year.

Honestly I don't think he ever realized if that was selfish in anyway.

Now he thinks I am quite sure--that I have ruined the party that was our life.

All of this was so foreign to me I had no comprehension--I had been with my first H for 20 years, a very quiet humble thrifty type. One extreme to the other.

[threebyfate]

I think there are power and control issues on both sides.

 

The only way you would know he's viewing porn, is to check his surfing history. Are you certain it's an addiction, where it's detrimental to your sex life? If it's not detrimental to your sex life, why must he stop viewing porn? Lying about it, is a major issue, though.

 

His threats of violence and emotional abuse, that comes from his drinking are and could be deadly and not to be tolerated. Once again, are you certain he's an alcoholic, rather than someone who's personality doesn't mesh well with alcohol? If he is truly an alcoholic, he's one for life, regardless if he gets on the wagon or not.

 

It's like the two of you are always trying to dominate each other. Can someone plse stand down by starting the MC process? There's no reason why you couldn't be the one to do the research on which MC might be a good fit for the two of you and then book the appointments.

[Gunny376]

Wow YGG! You've done and got yourself a tiger by the tail!

 

You can sit around spitting' whiskey in the fire all night skinning a cat? But the fact of the matter is no matter how you slice it, diced it, cut it up you've still got yourself a skinned cat.

 

That is to say that you've married a narcissistic, egotistical with an addictive personality.

 

You don't say in your thread how old you and he are. You did say that you were previously married for twenty years and that he's ten years older than you.

 

Given that the basic personality in all of us is firmly established by the age of five or six ~ that is to say that by that age we're pretty much all that we're ever going to be? Your pretty much spitting into the wind in hopes that he's going to change? He's not. If he does? It will only be temporary.

 

Being a career Marine my Honor and Integrity are such that I would never lie to anyone about anything. I learned early own the dividends that being honest, honorable, and up-holding ones integrity ~ leads to one's reputation. And its one's reputation that will save your @zz when pinned between a rock and a hard place.

 

Once tarnished? Its an up-hill battle to untarnished it.

 

That doesn't mean that I will neither 'confirm nor deny" ~ that is talk nor discuss something? But I would never lie. Evade and allude a given question? Yes.

 

The trouble with lying is that pretty soon you find yourself having to tell a lie on top of a lie on top a lie to cover up the first lie. It gets ugly quick, fast and in a hurry like.

 

Swingers? The closest thing to swinging I believe in is "threesomes!"

 

Me! Her and a doctor with some blood work! I don't need on of those 'gifts' that keep on giving. And I don't want nor need to be having a baby and paying out child support to some woman I don't even know? I really don't know what these people are thinking?

 

The finances, the "I'm going to throw you a surprise party even if you don't want one and it makes you uncomfortable", the drinking, the porn ~ the whole nine yards!

 

This guy is completely and absolutely clueless when it comes to women and to even begin to understand women.

 

Oh he may be "the Star of the Bar" when it comes to work, making a six figure income. and being a good provider? He even has enough domestic skills to come home and cook (No doubt having been forced to do so in between his marriage)

 

He's deceitful!

 

He's a liar!

 

He's a user and abuser of you and others! (Even when he's generous and giving ~ he's got an end payoff for himself in mind)

 

He's a manipulator!

 

He's a BS Artist.

 

I have to ask? WTF are your getting out of this?

 

Your obviously intelligent, educated, life-experienced, self autonomous, independent individual who was doing just fine and dandy before Mr. High Pockets moved in.

 

The suicide threats? Let me tell you from hard earned experienced about people that suicide themselves.

 

1. The don't talk about it! They do it!

 

2. If they're truly suicidal? They're homicidal and are more than willing to take those that try to stop them with them!

 

Your boy there is talking trash! It all back to the 'Manipulation and Control' game.

 

He's playing you for a pigeon.

 

People that are really good at what they do? They don't talk about it, they don't brag about it. The DO it! They don't seek nor need external validation from others. No brag? Just fact!

 

You need to quit procrastinating with your business, kick it into high gear and leave this clown.

 

Procrastination is like masturbation ~ which is what your doing!

 

"Its just a matter of time before you realize? Your just 'screwing' yourself!

 

Enough already! Leave this guy, and his perverse orgy of clowns and dancing bears!

 

The only difference between your marriage and the Titanic?

 

The Titanic had a band playing as she went under the waves!

 

IC? MC? There's no fixing this!

 

You might want to consider IC ~ to discover why you felt attracted to such a loser in the first place.

 

Which I can tell you (saving you $thousands of dollars) was to complete unresolved issues and questions of your childhood.)

 

That's what a lot of marriage is? The ultimate goal being to get to the other side and to become a self autonomous, self supporting, independent individual.

 

Wife? Husband? Girlfriend? Boyfriend?

 

"Ain't got one! Don't need one! Have no use for one ~ and couldn't afford one if I did!"

 

When you can say those words to yourself? You've arrived!

 

You've got to sit down and seriously think about your ROI (Return On Investment) of time, effort, mental, physical, emotional, and yes? Even money that your getting in return for such?

 

The so-called DH? What's he really bringing to the table that you want and need? Nothing!

 

His six-figure income? Woooohoooo! You were doing just fine before he showed up and you will do just fine once he's gone!

 

Life is way, way too short!

 

Quit dragging around dead horses and their saddles through the desert everywhere you go!

 

Get busy living you life to it fullest and to its top!

 

Quit sleeping on the couch ~ get into a bed!

 

Quit living your life for him!

 

Quit walking around on eggshells

 

Catch the bus to Mexico and enjoy the MARRGRITTIAS!

 

Gunny

Edited February 27, 2010 by Gunny376

[Steadfast]

 

He's a manipulator!

 

He's a BS Artist.

 

Your boy there is talking trash! It all back to the 'Manipulation and Control' game.

 

 

Sad to say this is what it all boils down to, really.

 

I agree with another poster who says you're both stubborn, but so what? Many happy marriages -perhaps the happiest- involve two strong personalities. The gal I'm dating does; her kids and career are top priorities, no question. The magical part is when she invites me in there, somewhere near the top in a very affectionate and loving way. The feeling is almost overwhelming, like a very special gift that makes me feel loved and important all at the same time. I do the same. Strength is attractive.

 

I asked before if he was unfaithful, you said you didn't know. I'd say his porn addiction is a thin line to actual infidelity, and fully so on a emotional level. When a marriage partner starts demanding certain 'rights' it's a sign that the love and respect that makes togetherness happen is weak or missing. He's really cheating himself because he either can't, or won't share his problems, failings or shortcomings with you to work on together.

 

That's the ultimate test of love, isn't it? 'Here I am...broken. Help me?'

 

Sooner or later every relationship is tested. Real love or imitation?