pureinheart Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I am not sure exactly who, (am unable to remember the names of the posters) although why are some of the ladies upset concerning WF's comment about her opinion of MM's W? I realise that this question was answered in the replies to WF. I am just making a point/observation. In another thread, or maybe even this one, RD made a comment about the OW in her situation and the name given was "trash". The OW was referred to trash on two posts that I saw...to my knowledge noone said anything. This was RD's situation so I think she has a right to express in whatever form concerning her deal...WF does too. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Well that all sounds like it went down the way you felt it should have. I have never contacted my H's OW because my issue was with him. I blamed him 100% and he took 100% of the blame. She was not my concern. However, in some cases, the whole "bus" thing should almost be expected. If the MM knows that the OW doesn't care about his BW, then how can you expect him to stop his wife from saying or doing something that will cause pain to the OW (if that is what the BW wants to do)? The MM is aware that the OW knows how much he has hurt his wife, he isn't treating the OW any different? Equal right? If the OW does nothing to hurt the BS then why should anything be allowed the other way? As I said, if the MM was badmouthing his W and they were getting to an 'I hate the W' mode all the time then the OW should expect that's how he'd allow her to be treated on DDay. If W has been made off limits for anything but neutral intry into conversation why should the OW expect any less? Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 If I were to ever mess around knowingly with someone elses wife, I'd expect, and deserve, a good punch in the face. Oh Dexter, you are so sexy when you talk that way. I like a man who takes responsibility for his actions. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 If I were to ever mess around knowingly with someone elses wife, I'd expect, and deserve, a good punch in the face. Why? She's the one messing around on a spouse. If you were a random stranger from a bar that she never saw again...and she did this continually would you expect the H to go and find them and punch them all? No...he'd aim his anger in the right direction, at his W. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 If the OW does nothing to hurt the BS then why should anything be allowed the other way? As I said, if the MM was badmouthing his W and they were getting to an 'I hate the W' mode all the time then the OW should expect that's how he'd allow her to be treated on DDay. If W has been made off limits for anything but neutral intry into conversation why should the OW expect any less? The MM knows he is hurting his wife. He also knows that the OW is aware that he is married and there is a real possibility that his BW will get hurt. He is aware that the OW isn't concerned with his wife's well being. When the BW shows the same disregard for the OW, why should he stop it when he didn't do anything to stop the pain that was coming his BW's way? Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflower Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 And in that case, why would it be wrong for the BW to speak poorly about the OW. I would think most people would expect a BW to have some negative words to say about the other woman her H is having sex with. No, the BW is supposed to be kind and gracious to the OW at all times. Heck, the BW should even thank the OW for having an A with the WH. My husband's xOW never contacted me and I never contacted her after d-day. It was more than likely for the best. Somehow, I don't think she and I are ever 'meant' to meet face to face. I don't know her more than a beyond one introduction and she does not know me. I blame my H 100% for his decision to have an A...I do not blame her. That being said, I don't like her and I don't have kind words to say about her. She appears to have cared less about my feelings (no surprise there) so why would I care about hers? I suppose I don't understand why a BW should have to be kind and 'rise above' having negative feelings toward the OW. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 If the OW does nothing to hurt the BS... So f'ing another woman's husband isn't doing something to hurt her? Really?! Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 If the OW does nothing to hurt the BS then why should anything be allowed the other way? As I said, if the MM was badmouthing his W and they were getting to an 'I hate the W' mode all the time then the OW should expect that's how he'd allow her to be treated on DDay. If W has been made off limits for anything but neutral intry into conversation why should the OW expect any less? OK, MF, you seem like an intelligent woman. Do you really believe that the OW is completely innocent of the pain the affair causes the BW? If you do, then you have to admit that no matter what her choices are, the BW is completely innocent of any pain that the affair may cause the OW. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 No, the BW is supposed to be kind and gracious to the OW at all times. Heck, the BW should even thank the OW for having an A with the WH. My husband's xOW never contacted me and I never contacted her after d-day. It was more than likely for the best. Somehow, I don't think she and I are ever 'meant' to meet face to face. I don't know her more than a beyond one introduction and she does not know me. I blame my H 100% for his decision to have an A...I do not blame her. That being said, I don't like her and I don't have kind words to say about her. She appears to have cared less about my feelings (no surprise there) so why would I care about hers? I suppose I don't understand why a BW should have to be kind and 'rise above' having negative feelings toward the OW. Yes, yes and yes!!! Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 The MM knows he is hurting his wife. He also knows that the OW is aware that he is married and there is a real possibility that his BW will get hurt. He is aware that the OW isn't concerned with his wife's well being. When the BW shows the same disregard for the OW, why should he stop it when he didn't do anything to stop the pain that was coming his BW's way? I think we're looking at things differently. The MM is responsible for the protection or destruction of his M. By going outside the marriage he is leaving the W and the M vulnerable. He is making a choice to bring eventual hurt to his W. By having an A and involving another party he is making a choice to bring eventual hurt to yet another party. The hurt, in most cases, is felt by the W first and then by the OW. When he throws the OW under the bus he is allowing her to be treated as less than the W was treated by the other party. We can all argue for months who has the most hurt and who has what right, but the question on this thread is about being thrown under a bus. Both women have the potential for huge hurt...if the M is treating them equally they will still both hurt, but he will not be making one of them less than the other in his actions. I also know someone will bring up the fact that the OW being left after DDay is throwing her under the bus-sometimes that's the case. If he's promised the world and he delivers nothing then I would agree. It's the behavior of the MM that denotes being thrown under the bus...he can initiate it or he can allow it to happen. I need some wine... Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 OK, MF, you seem like an intelligent woman. Do you really believe that the OW is completely innocent of the pain the affair causes the BW? If you do, then you have to admit that no matter what her choices are, the BW is completely innocent of any pain that the affair may cause the OW. Yes I do believe that. I also do believe the BW is completely innocent of any pain after an affair...that is the responsibility of the OW entering the relationship and the MM making himself available. If the MM allows the BW to start badmouthing and going postal to the OW then that is allowing the OW to be thrown under the bus. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I think we're looking at things differently. The MM is responsible for the protection or destruction of his M. By going outside the marriage he is leaving the W and the M vulnerable. He is making a choice to bring eventual hurt to his W. By having an A and involving another party he is making a choice to bring eventual hurt to yet another party. The hurt, in most cases, is felt by the W first and then by the OW. When he throws the OW under the bus he is allowing her to be treated as less than the W was treated by the other party. We can all argue for months who has the most hurt and who has what right, but the question on this thread is about being thrown under a bus. Both women have the potential for huge hurt...if the M is treating them equally they will still both hurt, but he will not be making one of them less than the other in his actions. I also know someone will bring up the fact that the OW being left after DDay is throwing her under the bus-sometimes that's the case. If he's promised the world and he delivers nothing then I would agree. It's the behavior of the MM that denotes being thrown under the bus...he can initiate it or he can allow it to happen. I need some wine... I would never try to compare any individual's hurt. I think it is just that, individual. However, IMO, an OW should not be surprised if a BW treats her poorly. Do you really believe that a wife is being treated better by the OW who is having sex with her H? Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 No, the BW is supposed to be kind and gracious to the OW at all times. Heck, the BW should even thank the OW for having an A with the WH. My husband's xOW never contacted me and I never contacted her after d-day. It was more than likely for the best. Somehow, I don't think she and I are ever 'meant' to meet face to face. I don't know her more than a beyond one introduction and she does not know me. I blame my H 100% for his decision to have an A...I do not blame her. That being said, I don't like her and I don't have kind words to say about her. She appears to have cared less about my feelings (no surprise there) so why would I care about hers? I suppose I don't understand why a BW should have to be kind and 'rise above' having negative feelings toward the OW. I don't think the BS in my case should be kind and gracious to me. I don't know her and I don't care to know her. She sought me out after the second DDay and asked me questions I was happy to answer. I didn't expect to be her friend, but I didn't expect her to be rude and start a huge confrontation any more than I would have expected the same from myself. I just don't think either of them should be expected to act any differently than the other. I actually give a bit more to the BS than to the OW. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I would never try to compare any individual's hurt. I think it is just that, individual. However, IMO, an OW should not be surprised if a BW treats her poorly. Do you really believe that a wife is being treated better by the OW who is having sex with her H? I have sex with a man who has made himself available to me. We have a relationship and I've accepted it for what it is. He is the one who is treating his wife poorly by having sex with someone else. If he were sat in front of a computer night after night looking at porn there is no one who would blame the porn...it would be his addiction. If it were a series of one night stands no one would blame them. The man is the one betraying the marriage...there are many ways to betray it, but the only one that has a co-conspirator is an A. So i disagree...the BW has no right to treat me poorly. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Yes I do believe that. I also do believe the BW is completely innocent of any pain after an affair...that is the responsibility of the OW entering the relationship and the MM making himself available. If the MM allows the BW to start badmouthing and going postal to the OW then that is allowing the OW to be thrown under the bus. Well then, I guess we would just be wasting our time if we continued this discussion. Because I believe in taking responsibility for my actions. If my actions in any way hurt another, then I am at fault because I choose that path. It's been a civil conversation and I thank you for that. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Well then, I guess we would just be wasting our time if we continued this discussion. Because I believe in taking responsibility for my actions. If my actions in any way hurt another, then I am at fault because I choose that path. It's been a civil conversation and I thank you for that. Thank you as well... I take responsibility for my actions. I have never cheated on a partner and I don't expect I ever would...if I did I would assume 100% of the responsibility for hurting him. When I was married and my H cheated on me I never once blamed the OW. She did nothing to me...she fell for someone, he is the one who made himself available. I actually went to my inlaws when I left and asked them to make sure she wasn't ostracized. I told my xMIL to make sure if she were upset my son and I were no longer part of the family to blame her son. You and I see the responsibility lying differently...I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I know not many people have my perspective and that's fine. I do listen to arguments and discussions from everyone...I try and take something from what people say. Even if I don't take the thoughts as my own there is always something to learn. Thank you... Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Thank you as well... I take responsibility for my actions. I have never cheated on a partner and I don't expect I ever would...if I did I would assume 100% of the responsibility for hurting him. When I was married and my H cheated on me I never once blamed the OW. She did nothing to me...she fell for someone, he is the one who made himself available. I actually went to my inlaws when I left and asked them to make sure she wasn't ostracized. I told my xMIL to make sure if she were upset my son and I were no longer part of the family to blame her son. You and I see the responsibility lying differently...I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I know not many people have my perspective and that's fine. I do listen to arguments and discussions from everyone...I try and take something from what people say. Even if I don't take the thoughts as my own there is always something to learn. Thank you... We can agree on one thing. The MM is the one to blame for making the choice to cheat on his wife. I, like you, never blamed the OW. My H never blamed the OW. I never met her, she is not part of my life. But, IMO, that does not make her innocent in any way. There have been many analogies and arguments to try and explain the part that the OW plays in the pain that is caused to the BW. I will not try to convince you of anything. You have your opinion and, like you said, you and I will have to agree to disagree. Off to pick up party supplies for the weekend. Have a good one. Link to post Share on other sites
JustJoe Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Thank you very much, NO I didn't, for the glossary of terms. OM/OW's aren't really in the loop ., anyway. We only know about the BS, what the WS want's us to know. And to be truthful, I never took the time to find out if my WW was telling me the truth, either. I never wanted to know the truth about him, that he was a really great guy, and that my WW was a ho. I'm still amazed at how someone so beautiful could be so vile. She deserves to be thrown under the bus, but what does it say about me? I guess I deserve it , too. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Calling a person, any person by a label does not pass judgement. It states a fact. Yes, I am a liar and an abuser. I am no longer active in those matters but I am still capable of repeating the behavior if I don't' make a conscious choice to steer clear of the situations, thought patterns and habits that lead me in that direction. I was wrong and have no trouble with anyone calling me on it, as many have here and the real world. To say someone is a cheater as the continue in the behavior that even you admit is wrong isn't judgement. It is a fact that has been stated openly. Some people call AP cheaters, others called them confused, thorn, manipulated or in JJ's words "split". They are all labels used to describe what we each see in the person involved in an A, particularly the WS. The emphasis is put on A's because we are either posting in the OW/OM, infidelity or marriage forums. The context of which the behavior what ever behavior is being discussed dictates the feelings and emotions behind the labels. If you go to a drug abuse forum I am sure you will get terms like, junkie, meth head or crack ho. Go to a political forum and you get God knows what. I have seen the terms, demonazi, neo-cons and left wingers. Go to a religious forum and you get fanatics, bible thumpers, sinners and so on. Yep, this is soooo the truth..... If labels equaled judgement(punishment) then we would all have some one's foot up our butt waiting for them to turn counter clockwise and pull. BBNB...this is great food for thought as I did a piece (writing) on "labels" several years back. Also the next gift concerning food for thought is judgmentalism and where is the line drawn, and what is the actual meaning? Sorry for the thread jack JJ...spin off? Link to post Share on other sites
JustJoe Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I haven't been here long enough to post yet. But, no prob. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 archaic yes, unintelligent....no. again, people are desperate to save their families in situations like this. It certainly isn't for me, and I won't stay with a cheater...I'll let the other person have their worthless butt. But I understand the desperation that comes from being f####d over by two other people. and yes, I agree, the cheating spouse is the most to blame. of course YOU don't think its too much to ask....you weren't the one being effed over, yet one of the parties doing the effing. thats like stabbing someone with a knife, then saying, "don't hate me....overcome this temporary painful time in your life" Actually, I have been a BW so I understand what a BW goes through very much so. I don't expect her to be happy about me either, just to not try so hard to denigrate someone who might not be as bad a person as she so wants to believe is. Besides that I think we are very much in agreement. At least you have your dignity and I like that about you. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Oh Dexter, you are so sexy when you talk that way. I like a man who takes responsibility for his actions. well, I guess I have yet to take responsibility for something like this though since I never have been in that situation, and never will knowingly. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Why? She's the one messing around on a spouse. true that, and she would be the one that needs to be dealt with as well. Still wouldn't absolve me from my despicable role in messing around with someone elses wife. If you were a random stranger from a bar that she never saw again...and she did this continually would you expect the H to go and find them and punch them all? I wouldn't expect them to at all...just saying, it would be my own fault if I were to get a beatdown for messing around with someone elses wife. No...he'd aim his anger in the right direction, at his W. the anger can be aimed in both their direction, but yes, would and should be more concentrated on the cheating spouse. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 If the MM allows the BW to start badmouthing and going postal to the OW then that is allowing the OW to be thrown under the bus. the cheating partner has no say so in what the betrayed party says. and any person that effs someone elses spouse knowingly deserves to be badmouthed. I can't believe anyone that f###s someone elses spouse would even complain about a little badmouthing....i mean get real. physical violence (even though I feel I'd deserve it if I were to eff someones wife), stalking...etc. is unacceptable no matter who you are, but badmouthing? Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Actually, I have been a BW so I understand what a BW goes through very much so. I don't expect her to be happy about me either, just to not try so hard to denigrate someone who might not be as bad a person as she so wants to believe is. Besides that I think we are very much in agreement. At least you have your dignity and I like that about you. well while I will always understand someones need, whether rational or not, to denigrate someone that is messing around with their spouse, gf/bf....me myself, I could care less about the OM. I put the blame on the wife and got rid of her. I actually told the OM I wanted to take him out for a beer and celebrate my freedom from a cheater, and drink to his doom and anticipation of when she does it to him. Link to post Share on other sites
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