"Thrown under the bus"

[OWoman]

I still don't understand with your beliefs of monogamy why you did get married this time. This is not an insult. You have made it quite clear you don't really believe in marriage.

 

Quite simple - we wanted to be together. We're citizens of different countries, so the only way for that to happen was to get M, so that we could each legally reside in the other's country for longer than a few months at a time.

[greengoddess]

Quite simple - we wanted to be together. We're citizens of different countries, so the only way for that to happen was to get M, so that we could each legally reside in the other's country for longer than a few months at a time.

ah ok that makes sense.

[JustJoe]

I was never going to get married - but I did. Twice!

Haha! Well you can have it. No more married women for Joe, even if he's the one married to them!! There are too many single beauties for me to think about getting hitched. I think I'll just rely on sex and friendship (FWB'S) and leave that "in love", business to others.

[jennie-jennie]

Wow for some reason I thought you were younger than that. I did not expect you to be in your late fifties early sixties.

 

Wait a minute, I am not THAT old! I should have said I did "open marriages" in the seventies AND the early eighties. OK, let's just back up a bit and I will give you my relationship history. First you need to know that my generation in my country rarely got married, we cohabited which has the same legal status here as marriage.

 

1976-1980: first long term relationship, it lasted from age 16 to age 21.

 

1981-2007: second long term relationship, 3 children, lasted from age 22 to age 48.

 

Which makes me turn 51 this year!

[jennie-jennie]

I actually feel much better now about jennie being involved in a 5 year affair. I get so angry when I read young girls wasting their lives on these married men.

 

I have to say I'm really curious now how old this mm and his wife are? I have to wonder if you are enhancing her marriage.

 

For once we can agree on something, greengoddess. I do not like either to think of young girls who might be missing their chance to become mothers or have a nice house, because they are hooked up with a MM. I have had my kids and I own my own house.

 

MM is half a year older than me and his wife is half a year younger than me, so we are all close in age. I have thought about whether I am "enhancing their marriage". But since they no longer have a sex life, I would not think so, or maybe she is just relieved, who knows? She is not questioning the lack of sex.

[jennie-jennie]

I haven't seen that film - will keep a lookout for it.

 

The GFs typically don't want to marry - their lives are usually far better than the Ws, whose role is to breed, to work, to look after the extended family - all very unglamorous roles. The GFs get spoiled, pampered and allowed to do as they wish - they are not under the control of the H in the same way the Ws are. Occasionally a GF may wish to marry the MM - particularly if she falls pregnant - but usually they prefer life as a GF.

 

(And - since I know someone will ask - yes, the Ws know there are GFs, though they choose not to know who and what and how. It's something they accept, but not something they are necessarily happy about. But it's a cultural practice, and they've been raised to accept it as such and their place within it.)

 

Very interesting, OWoman, I find it so fascinating to hear about the customs in your home country.

 

Do watch that movie. Its English title is "Clouds over Conakry". It takes place in Conakry, which is the capital of Guinea in West Africa.

 

I mentioned our discussion about polygamy to my MM. He did agree that that would have been a perfect solution for us.

[greengoddess]

Wait a minute, I am not THAT old! I should have said I did "open marriages" in the seventies AND the early eighties. OK, let's just back up a bit and I will give you my relationship history. First you need to know that my generation in my country rarely got married, we cohabited which has the same legal status here as marriage.

 

1976-1980: first long term relationship, it lasted from age 16 to age 21.

 

1981-2007: second long term relationship, 3 children, lasted from age 22 to age 48.

 

Which makes me turn 51 this year!

 

LOL ok you were really young and it was late 70's.

[White Flower]

Quite simple - we wanted to be together. We're citizens of different countries, so the only way for that to happen was to get M, so that we could each legally reside in the other's country for longer than a few months at a time.

Your post almost sounds like it was more of a convenience if not for the bolded part. I know you are also enjoying your M!

[jennie-jennie]

I'm puzzled by this comment Jennie. From the ways you have described your MM (having difficulty choosing etc) it seems that an open marriage might be a good solution for him.

 

What would you do if he talks with his wife and they agree that they will have an open marriage? Would you suddenly decide to end your A with him, would you try to talk him out of reaching that agreement with his wife, would you be content that the problem was "solved" in that it would then be acceptable for your relationship with him to continue, or maybe something else?

 

My H and I briefly discussed having an open marriage after d-day. I found his reaction to the idea rather interesting.

 

The question then first becomes how does one define open marriage as compared to polygamy. Being no expert on polygamy I presume the husband lives with all his wives, I don't know if the wives have equal rights or if one is considered superior to the others. Does not open marriage usually entail the husband living with one wife only but having the right to sexual relationships beyond that, relationships which are usually not more than sexual? Does not open marriage mean that the husband has his primary relationship with the wife at home AND has sex with her?

 

For the last year MM and I have been exclusive. He has clearly declared to me that he has no desire to have sex with his wife any longer. I can't see how that would fit into an open marriage.

 

On top of all these wonderings comes the likelihood that because of my MM's wife's personality she would never approve of an open marriage.

 

And my own experiences from my youth of an open marriage wearing on the intimacy of a relationship. And would it not be strange by the way to call it an open marriage if its purpose would be to only let in one specific other person? MM's and my relationship has the more intimate it has become taken away from the intimacy between him and his wife. I don't think that is allowed in an open marriage.

 

But okay sure if his wife would agree to an open marriage and that would mean that our relationship would be out in the open, I might consider it. I would not approve of my MM having other sexual relationships than with me however, certainly not with more OW.

 

Hope this answers your question, Myrtle.

Edited March 12, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[pureinheart]

Ms. Pure, I'm an Infantry officer at Ft.Hood. But no, when I'n stateside it's training , and more training. Since my A, though I'm thinking of getting out. I've had some teaching jobs offered to me, and I might do that. As to my MW, I'm beginning to realize that I might have dodged a bullet with her. Her entire life was devoted to finding and marrying a rich guy, and I am definitely not in that category, so if we had stayed together, our life would have been rocky, indeed. It must be a terrible thing, to have placed a monetary value on love, sex, and marriage. Women, who have sold themselves like this, are they really happy with their things? Do they feel like it's their due, for selling their love.........I wonder.

 

Officers in the Military isn't exactly "chump change", you know? What is she looking for...yes I know "money", but even NCO's do quite well...oh well, her lose.

 

This has always been difficult for me to understand, to me if you pay your bills that month and have money left over, well that is like being rich...now to have love with that also, well this adds up to a perfect life to me.

 

I think most women today who feel it's due to them go out and earn it themselves, at least the ones I know, they also manage to find love also....although their first priority is career.

 

After so many failed relationships, being laid off so many times, I told God that if it was a choice between exDM and finances (for me, meaning paying my bills), I'd take the finances over exDM. Let me add, exDM did a real number on me, and I definitely dodged a bullet!

[JustJoe]

I know, Ms. Pure. I do make a decent living, but to be honest, I'm not in her husband's league. He is "old money", and owns quite a bit of Texas. It's no matter, I knew which way she would jump, so any blame in on me. Jennie just brought up a study about lost loves, and it has me really excited. My college sweetheart and I broke up years ago. Now I'm wondering about her, and if she still cares. Wouldn't that be awesome!

[pureinheart]

Justjoe, Many many people find no honor in having an affair and sleeping with someone elses wife. It is a crime in the military. I do not believe you have to be BITTER from being cheated on to hold this belief. Most single people who have never been married believe affairs hold no honor.

 

I swear that is the cheates mantra if someone doesn't agree with the. "you're just bitter" NO it's called affairs are wrong. Thus why you keep them a secret and tell no one. Sheesh one of my major pet peeves on this board, when someone thinks affairs are wrong "oh you're just bitter." Um no they are wrong. Period.

 

GG did you read the entire script/page that led up to JJ's reply? DM's tone was very bitter...

[pureinheart]

Hey Jennie,

 

BTW, happy 51st...I'm 50 in a couple of weeks....my year of jubilee!!!!!

[pureinheart]

I know, Ms. Pure. I do make a decent living, but to be honest, I'm not in her husband's league. He is "old money", and owns quite a bit of Texas. It's no matter, I knew which way she would jump, so any blame in on me. Jennie just brought up a study about lost loves, and it has me really excited. My college sweetheart and I broke up years ago. Now I'm wondering about her, and if she still cares. Wouldn't that be awesome!

 

Yes! Most definitely, and I completely agree due to the fact I like what is familiar and really don't want to tell the gory details of my life all over again.

 

I feel it one of the most important things to do in a R, meaning to let the OP know about what they are getting into...this way, that task is already completed as there is just bringing the other up-to-date...

 

Ok, I guess there is a difference there...

 

You know...some people dream about being rich like that, although it is an awful lot of heartache having to deal with all of that money, it would confuse me in many ways.

 

There are times of discontent, although for the first time in my entire life am stable financially...I now know what to expect. Also have to add that I have always done better single financially.

 

There is just but one more horrible thing that I must deal with and my life is mine...to heal from a past that I am just now at the brink of understanding...to be ready should I be graced with a good man.

 

I am sure your exMW was a wonderful lady, and you can walk away now with no condemnation, no regrets, nothing...life is very good!

[jennie-jennie]

Hey Jennie,

 

BTW, happy 51st...I'm 50 in a couple of weeks....my year of jubilee!!!!!

 

Congratulations, Pure! You have survived half a century! :bunny:

[jennie-jennie]

I know, Ms. Pure. I do make a decent living, but to be honest, I'm not in her husband's league. He is "old money", and owns quite a bit of Texas. It's no matter, I knew which way she would jump, so any blame in on me. Jennie just brought up a study about lost loves, and it has me really excited. My college sweetheart and I broke up years ago. Now I'm wondering about her, and if she still cares. Wouldn't that be awesome!

 

Indeed it would, Joe! Keep us informed! Your exMW will most likely look bleak next to your college sweetheart! The thing to realize is that your lost love is already in your heart.

[Dexter Morgan]

 

 

DEXTER!!!! How, how on earth can you come to this conclusion?

 

because you yourself said something similar to the effect.

 

and it would just seem to me that if I was a party to screwing other men's wives....then got married and some guy did the same thing to my wife....i'd pretty much feel like its karma coming back to me. here i'd be the one enjoying myself with other men's wives, not someone else is doing it back to me. it would be like I'm getting what I deserve.

 

not saying you deserve it...just the way I would see it if I was effing around with someone elses wife.

[jennie-jennie]

Thanks for answering Jennie.

 

I'm not sure about polygamy either but that wasn't what I was asking about.

 

I assume a married couple can set their own terms for any open marriage they agree to, but I understand that it includes honesty about the other parties with whom they are having intimate/sexual relationships. It may also entail letting the OPs know that the MPs are in an open marriage. To me this would be the ethical thing to do as it lets the OP know where they stand. I think it's possible for the MP and OP to have love for each other too as long as the marriage is left intact.

 

I have a friend who was an OW to an open marriage. The trouble was that although the married couple knew the marriage was open, my friend didn't. She could never really understand why her MM seemed unconcerned about his wife finding out or about them being seen in public. She was devastated when she realised that in fact she was an adjunct to an open marriage. She felt totally betrayed.

 

I've heard that honesty between the married couple is essential to an open marriage but I'm not sure how often this is extended to any OPs. My feeling is that there is something very wrong if the OP does not know this.

 

My question to you was hypothetical, but I do think that it would be difficult for an OP to have any say in the terms of any open marriage between a married couple.

 

Well, I know that the BS in my case watched a movie once where the WS was killed in a car accident although he had decided to return home to the marriage and end it with the OW. She thought he got what he deserved, so I don't think she is very much into open marriages of any kind, certainly not upon finding out that the extramarital relationship has already been ongoing for soon to be five years.

 

The reason I compared open marriages to polygamy was because polygamy is something my MM and I could consider.

[crazycatlady]

I think in most cases of an open marriage while the MPs decide what they want, its usual for the MPs to reserve a loving relationship for themselves. This is where we were fairly recently (after being monogamous but talking about it for 9 or so years)

 

Polygamy is multiple marriage in any direction, there are specific terms for multiple wives and multiple husbands, polygyny and polyandry to be specific. Polyamory is the act of loving more then one person. This is where we are moving towards.

 

Also H lets anyone he starts talking to as possible new "friend" know that we are open. Hiding it would be wrong.

 

Jennie - while you might think due to her statements, she would be against the idea, that isn't necessarily true. It could be the cheating factor - the lying, hiding, betrayal etc, rather then the multiple partners.

 

This has been interesting to read. And it has brought all sorts of questions to my mind about my situation. Obviously, H can't bad talk me to the OW, nor the marriage. No one can be tossed under the bus. It makes me very curious to see how this is going to play out, because I have gone back to wanting to get it back into the open. I have found there is some minor resentment in me at being placed in this position by the two of them that I can't seem to get it to move on its way.

 

Its based more on how the hell can they two lie to me like this, then I can't believe they did this. The fact that she could pretend that nothing was wrong on our trip, boggles my mind. Of course I pretended nothing was wrong either, and for the most part didn't think about it or dwell on it until the last night when she pissed me off by being drunk and trying to crawl into that very small bed with me at almost 3 when I was trying to sleep.

 

CCL

[InSeverePain]

You already KNOW he's a liar as you posted above (therefore, lacking in integrity), yet you don't think he says bad things about you to placate his wife?

 

It's apparent to me that the Ws choose to remain oblivious because, otherwise, they must either kick him to the curb or otherwise give him tacit approval to continue cheating.

[NoIDidn't]

It's apparent to me that the Ws choose to remain oblivious because, otherwise, they must either kick him to the curb or otherwise give him tacit approval to continue cheating.

 

Actually there are more options than kicking him to the curb, or turning a blind eye. He could kick the marriage to the curb himself and file for divorce. Or, he could end the affair and work on fixing the marriage. Or, they could create an open marriage. Or, they could become polygamous and add the OW to the marriage as a sister-wife under the first W.

 

Lots of options. Not all have to paint the BW as the bad guy. She isn't the one throwing the OP under the bus.

[White Flower]

Actually there are more options than kicking him to the curb, or turning a blind eye. He could kick the marriage to the curb himself and file for divorce. Or, he could end the affair and work on fixing the marriage. Or, they could create an open marriage. Or, they could become polygamous and add the OW to the marriage as a sister-wife under the first W.

 

Lots of options. Not all have to paint the BW as the bad guy. She isn't the one throwing the OP under the bus.

I beg to differ. If she doesn't throw him out on D-day and forces him to make the NC call, she is indeed helping (making) him throw the OW under the bus.

[PhoenixRise]

I beg to differ. If she doesn't throw him out on D-day and forces him to make the NC call, she is indeed helping (making) him throw the OW under the bus.

 

I have to disagree with this.

 

I wonder at what point we should hold a man responsible for his own actions.

 

A wife is responsible for not throwing a WS out. For whatever reasons she makes that choice it is her choice for her to own. If she issues terms and conditions for the WH to stay or that keep her from leaving that is also her choice. She owns that.

 

A MM owns his choice to make an NC call.

 

Does everyone in the triangle have to own their choices except MM?

[White Flower]

I have to disagree with this.

 

I wonder at what point we should hold a man responsible for his own actions.

 

A wife is responsible for not throwing a WS out. For whatever reasons she makes that choice it is her choice for her to own. If she issues terms and conditions for the WH to stay or that keep her from leaving that is also her choice. She owns that.

 

A MM owns his choice to make an NC call.

 

Does everyone in the triangle have to own their choices except MM?

I don't disagree with you on that, yes he does own his own choice. He caved in to her, coward that he is, and must live with that decision. Sucks for him though if he really didn't want to do it.

[White Flower]

I think few MM start affairs thinking seriously about how, at some stage, they might have to abandon one of the women they love. If they are like my H they just avoid the thought because it is too painful.

 

Then d-day hits and he has a wife incapable of making any decisions let alone "making" her H do anything. Suddenly he has to decide himself what he is going to do. He has few choices, none palatable. He abandons the OW, he abandons his wife or he attempts to maintain the status quo knowing that this will entail even more lies than before. To me the most cowardly and despicable option is the latter.

 

It is not sensible to suggest that throwing the OW under the bus is somehow more cowardly than leaving his wife. I agree he probably didn't want to do it, and probably didn't really want any of the options available to him.

I think we can agree Myrtle. It is only a cowardly act if he didn't want to do it but felt forced. It can also be said that he is cowardly for not leaving his W when he would rather do so. It is a measure of his fear (lack of agency) against that of his preferred choice under sudden pressure.