Frustrating Love

[Primate]

You mean when you're a married man living in Europe who still hasn't left his wife, and the object of your affection is a waitress in Vietnam who you only saw in person once for a few minutes? Is that surprising to you?

 

You forget to mention almost 4 months worth of texting, emails, photo's, phone calls, letters, gifts etc. Yes that is surprising to me!

 

Your perspective is extremely distorted.

 

Really? Explain if you can, please.

 

Sh-t or get off the pot. Or find yourself a local woman who's okay with your situation. Leave "the girl" alone like she asked you to.

 

Thanks for telling me what to do. I really appreciate it.

[aerogurl87]

Primate let's be honest here, you don't really love your wife. If you really loved her you'd tell her to sign the divorce papers now and offer her spousal support or something since you don't want her living on the streets. That's what you'd do if you loved her. You're selfish and want to have your cake and eat it too. Yeah you told your wife the truth you say, but yet you're still holding on to her, why? Well the answer is simple, you can't stand the thought of not having anyone there. If the girl would've ran to your arms you would've kicked your wife out. Am I right?

 

Secondly, this girl has a good head on her shoulders not to be with someone like you. You say "well I just don't love her anymore so I found the next pretty young thing to mess with" and she said "I don't want to end up like your wife" and ran for the hills. I'm sorry but put yourself in the girl's position for once. You're not even separated and trying to start something up with her before you even leave your wife? Talk about cowardly. And you say life isn't black and white, that's true sometimes, but this isn't about things being black and white this is about denial. You're trying to make things more complicated than they are in your head so the guilt doesn't get to you. I did the same thing before when I knew my ex was cheating on me. Rationalizing what really was plain as day with excuse upon excuse. But in the end it was a self made haze to hide the reality of everything. But as I said before, the fog will clear and when it does your wife will hopefully be smart enough to walk away from you and find someone who loves will love her forever and not just stop after the initial butterflies settle down.

 

And also if you don't believe marriage vows are forever, why did you even get married? Then secondly, I don't think rollercoasterr needs a muzzle, but maybe you do. Could put an end to you spewing all this BS. You don't know what real love is Primate. You don't really love your wife, you don't really love that girl, the only person you love is yourself.

Edited March 11, 2010 by aerogurl87

[sweetjasmine]

You forget to mention almost 4 months worth of texting, emails, photo's, phone calls, letters, gifts etc. Yes that is surprising to me!

 

You mean the girl liked the attention she got from you but didn't want to be in an actual relationship with someone who lives on another continent and is still married?

 

Really? Explain if you can, please.

 

Several of us have already explained.

 

Thanks for telling me what to do. I really appreciate it.

 

You asked for advice, didn't you?

[Primate]

Primate let's be honest here, you don't really love your wife. If you really loved her you'd tell her to sign the divorce papers now and offer her spousal support or something since you don't want her living on the streets. That's what you'd do if you loved her.

 

I love her. It really doesn't matter whatever kind of pseudo analysis you trow at me, you have no idea about my emotions. Your scenario is only one of many possible cause and effect events.

Not black and white you say?

 

 

You're selfish and want to have your cake and eat it too.

 

Yeah, yeah, how easy is it to accuse someone of selfishness.

Everybody is selfish! And believe it or not, I really don't care either way, I'm actually very altruistic. But I am still human and that comes with emotions I can't always control.

 

Yeah you told your wife the truth you say, but yet you're still holding on to her, why? Well the answer is simple, you can't stand the thought of not having anyone there.

 

The answer is simple because I handed it to you. Is there something wrong with the feeling of hating to be alone? Are you going to tell me that what you think is morally right for you is morally right for me even though I know my personal situation 100% and you know maybe 1%?

I have given my wife a couple of reasons to leave me, believe me, but she doesn't want to leave me. If you knew more about the reality of my situation and weren't so judgemental, maybe you could even understand it!

 

If the girl would've ran to your arms you would've kicked your wife out. Am I right?

 

You're wrong. If I was like that, I wouldn't have told either party that the other existed and I would trow my wife out in an instant when the relationship with the girl had become solid. But i'm not like that. I am really sorry if that makes you rethink your judgement about me.

 

Secondly, this girl has a good head on her shoulders not to be with someone like you.

 

Someone like me huh? I wonder how someone could ever love to be around a judgemental person such as yourself.

 

You say "well I just don't love her anymore so I found the next pretty young thing to mess with" and she said "I don't want to end up like your wife" and ran for the hills.

 

Are you aware that making up such stories about another person gives your selfrightious personality an excuse to be as rude as you can be, even though it's totally inexcusable behavior?

 

 

I'm sorry but put yourself in the girl's position for once. You're not even separated and trying to start something up with her before you even leave your wife? Talk about cowardly.

 

You are not sorry, people who are sorry don't call others cowards while sitting behind a computer screen typing away from a safe distance.

Talk about irony.

 

And you say life isn't black and white, that's true sometimes, but this isn't about things being black and white this is about denial.

 

It is always true. denial? Please......

 

You're trying to make things more complicated than they are in your head so the guilt doesn't get to you. I did the same thing before when I knew my ex was cheating on me. Rationalizing what really was plain as day with excuse upon excuse. But in the end it was a self made haze to hide the reality of everything.

 

So you think by projecting your previous situation onto mine ,you feel you can judge me by it? Maybe, just maybe instead of suggesting and telling me what I am supposed to be, it would be good for a change to ask things about my situation. Would at least make my topic seem less like a troll fest.

 

But as I said before, the fog will clear and when it does your wife will hopefully be smart enough to walk away from you and find someone who loves will love her forever and not just stop after the initial butterflies settle down.

 

I've been maried for more than 11 years, what are you talking about "...and not just stop after the initial butterflies settle down" Have you ever been with someone that long? If no, then please spare me your nonsense.

 

And also if you don't believe marriage vows are forever, why did you even get married?

 

I was young and more or less forced to because I would have lost my wife forever if I didn't marry her. When you get older and start to think, you see that the only benefits of marriage are certain social rights and securities.

It does nothing for the love that is or isn't there.

Vows are wortless as you can't guarantee anything for the future that is't set in stone already, like love for instance. It's like promissing to help your brother build a house for him but losing your arms before you could fulfill your promise. No more arms, no more help. In love, no more original love, no more promisses for eternal happyness together

 

Then secondly, I don't think rollercoasterr needs a muzzle, but maybe you do. Could put an end to you spewing all this BS.

 

Do you feel a bit better after all your judgements, bitterness, spitefulness and personal attacks? I hope you do, seriously, all the latent frustrations you kept away need to come out every so often otherwise it will consume you.

 

You don't know what real love is Primate. You don't really love your wife, you don't really love that girl, the only person you love is yourself.

 

If it wasn't for the LD I would come over and give you a hug and show you what real love is. You come across as someone with a lot of pain caused by failed relationships, lies, cheats etc. I fully understand that that could mess up your perception towards men in general and "see" the

negatives before considering the positives.

I wish you well aerogurl, if I may assume you where born in '87, don't feel bad there is so much more time for you to find that right guy (like me) who treats you the way you always wanted to be treated.

Go find some things you can get some positive energy from instead of hanging around in places like these, absorbing missery like a masochist and worsening your own perseption of love in the process.

 

If anything, i hope you understand that I wish to discuss my situation in this topic without having to get into petty fights about my character.

[Primate]

New developments!

 

Well, she obviously didn't change her phone number so I was able to call her yesterday and surprisingly I got her on the phone. I told her that I didn't like the situation we where in and just wanted her to know I want nothing more than for her to be happy.

She promissed to send me a message as she was unable to talk for some reason.

I waited the whole day but received no message, until I checked my yahoo chat log at the end of the day and found that she spoke to me quite a bit on it.

She told me she wants to be my best friend and she sent me a special gift which I am going to receive within 15 days.

She thanked me for my offer to stay in contact and understood why I was disappointed with her.

 

So now we are "friends". Great isn't it?

I'm not going to expect to much out of it even though the real thing I'm interested in is a relationship and hope there still is a chance.

 

Like a rollercoaster it goes, from love to hate to friendship.

This is what frustrates me. And unfortunately for me, I guess I have to play this game with her for as long as it takes for me to give up completely.

[Rollercoasterr]

Ugh, you and your games.

 

But you know what, YOU asked for ADVICE. YOU put yourself out here. Which means you also have to be open to criticism and judgments. That's what happens when you write your situation and post it on a forum. As if you didn't know. But every time you read something you don't like, again, you throw a tantrum like a 3 year old.

 

We might be judgmental, but we're not the ones asking for advice, are we? We're not the ones in a loveless marriage, pining after a girl that obviously doesn't want anything to do with us romantically. You are. So you can throw your tantrums and say anything you want when you don't read the right things, but at the end of the night YOU are the one going to bed with this.

 

Women aren't toys. We are not playthings. You can't play a game with someone until you're over them. Everyone has feelings and you disregard everyone elses but your own. I hope that makes you feel better and more like a man that you have hurt your wife(because you know you have) to make YOURSELF feel better, and you will play with this girl until you're over her, also to make YOURSELF feel better.

 

Not everyone that comes to LS is in an unhappy relationship. I'm not here because of that. I never was. Some people are here just because. So you really need to stop pulling the whole "I'm sorry for your pain, etc." crap out because it doesn't work on most people.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Rollercoasterr

[aerogurl87]

Primate for your information 1) I was not born in 87 but if you'd like to look up the clothing line Aeropostale you may find out where the 87 in my name came from. Secondly, I'm not bitter about anything. I come from a very loving family where I've witnessed my dad love and treat my mom with the upmost respect for 25+ years. I've had good relationships, no they didn't all last, but I was happy while I was in them. And now I'm in a very loving, relationship with good communication where my boyfriend isn't selfish as you are. Yes all human beings are selfish to some extent, but you're more than selfish. What you're doing to your wife is disgusting to me. She's staying because she loves you, I understand that logic. I felt the same way when I was with my ex boyfriend when I knew for a fact he was cheating on me. But in the end I found the strength to walk away from him forever. And you know what happened when all his whores left him? He came begging back for me, but by that time I had found someone who deserved me. I trust your wife will do the same in time.

 

By the way I wouldn't allow you to talk to me in real life if you were here. I don't associate with cowards, and yes you are a coward. Any man who has to swing from one relationship to another one without breaking up with his wife is a coward. Yeah you told her the truth about your crush, but you still don't have the decency to leave her. It takes courage to walk away even when someone begs you to stay. If your heart's not in it, leave. She can find happiness elsewhere, even if she doesn't know it now. You are not an AMAZING catch, because guys like you are a dime a dozen.

[Primate]

Ugh, you and your games.

 

How many grey hairs have you grown since your spitefulness has come to surface?

 

But you know what, YOU asked for ADVICE.

 

Please don't confuse your hate speech with advice.

 

YOU put yourself out here. Which means you also have to be open to criticism and judgments.

 

Uhuh, I know when I trow myself in a viper pit, but as long as the vipers slither along they won't get hurt, if they try to bite me, I'll go for the head with my pocket knife.

Come back when you learn that selfrightiousness isn't an excuse to judge people. You haven't learned to understand. Maybe you can be excused for it, at least I give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

That's what happens when you write your situation and post it on a forum. As if you didn't know.

 

Have you seen the way Zebracolours aproached me? You can learn a lot from her.

 

But every time you read something you don't like, again, you throw a tantrum like a 3 year old.

 

Again, personal attack. Are you frustrated or something?

 

We might be judgmental, but we're not the ones asking for advice, are we?

 

Confusing Advice with whatever hatefulness you have been spewing is rather amusing.

 

We're not the ones in a loveless marriage, pining after a girl that obviously doesn't want anything to do with us romantically. You are.

 

I don't see a connection between your perception and my reality. On top of that you keep excusing yourself for your hatefulness. Hate consumes people. Eventually it will make your own relationship suffer. As you haven't learned to see reality without tunnel vision, there's a high chance that that is exactly what's going to happen.

 

So you can throw your tantrums and say anything you want when you don't read the right things, but at the end of the night YOU are the one going to bed with this.

 

Tantrums? Really?

Indeed I go to bed with the thought of my situation. You go to bed with hate for someone you don't know. How sad is that?

 

Women aren't toys. We are not playthings.

 

Someone should have told me this earlier. I didn't get a memo. Can I finish my game with this girl before starting to become a good boy?

 

You can't play a game with someone until you're over them.

 

Who said I was? If someone plays a game with me I have to play it if I think it is somehow worth it. I don't like games but obviously I am meant to play along, so I do.

 

Everyone has feelings and you disregard everyone elses but your own.

 

Really? You know this, how?

 

I hope that makes you feel better.....

 

Why do people use words without being sarcastic AND without meaning what they say?

 

....and more like a man that you have hurt your wife(because you know you have) to make YOURSELF feel better, and you will play with this girl until you're over her, also to make YOURSELF feel better.

 

Right. Your are absolutely 100% right. Bravo. Happy now?

That is what your judgemental attitude accomplishes. NOTHING lady. Absolutely NOTHING. You know nothing about me. I am really fed up with myself that I am actually wasting my time "discussing" a woman who has clearly not learned what netiquete means.

 

Not everyone that comes to LS is in an unhappy relationship. I'm not here because of that. I never was.

 

Well with your attitude it's just a matter of time before that is exactly the reason why you come here and then you ask why your relationship has gone sour. Maybe your sour attitude has something to do with it.

 

Some people are here just because. So you really need to stop pulling the whole "I'm sorry for your pain, etc." crap out because it doesn't work on most people.

 

It wasn't meant to "work". Obviously you feel the need to tell people how they should act without even considering the possibility that your view might be just a little extreem. You are no good template for being a good person, get your act straight first before you qualify for anything remotely close.

 

One question, are you a feminist?

 

The score for your post: F+ (+ for effort. good job)

[aerogurl87]

 

Just like your boyfriend, huh?! You just wait until your amazing, caring and listening BF is gonna eat someone elses grass cuz its tastier. There are two people involved in a relationship and no matter matter how green and succulent he is to you, as soon as the real you, like what you show me here, is going to leak sewage waste on his perfect garden he is going to find that grass, wether you like it or not.

 

But you don't want to believe that, now do you? Maybe that's why you attack me, so your amazing catch looks better than that filt you vomitted at on a forum, and you can live happily ever after with all your naiveness in tact.

 

Your score is : F ( better luck next time)

 

You know what, that's ironic you would say that because I'm pretty sure my boyfriend would agree with me on the fact that how you're treating your wife is wrong. My boyfriend was cheated on by his ex, who like you had this view that as long as the butterflies in the tummy have evaporated and "love" is no more it's ok to go chasing after something better. Luckily we both know that's not how the real world works, butterflies don't last forever. By the way I don't believe in happily ever after, it's only a delusion made up by Disney, sorry you didn't catch the memo. Marriage is hard work, not a walk in the park, but hard work. When you got married you made a vow to your wife to stick to her until death, am I right? Now if you made a vow to her to stick with her until you got bored, then I'd have to say there's nothing wrong with what you've done, but I doubt that happened. So when you made that vow I'm guessing you thought everything would be happy go lucky for the rest of your days until real life set in and you got bored/annoyed/ or whatever. Well I'm sorry your fantasy world was shattered, but as Gary Allan puts it "life ain't always beautiful". So as I said before if you really love your wife, let her go. Real love is unselfish and realistic, and the right thing for you to do in this case would be to let your wife go and let her go find someone who loves her as much as she loves you. And I'm not bitter about what happened with my ex boyfriend, but I am happy he opened my eyes and let me see how much of an a**hole he was before I got more involved with him than I did. Plus it freed me to find my wonderful boyfriend now, he treats me good and respects me.

[Primate]

Long story about self.......

 

Good, good. Nice to hear. I am happy for you.

Though, I don't require a story to be convinced of good behavior. Just applying netiqeute is enough.

 

You haven't treated either of these women well.

 

Really? Why's that?

 

Say what you want, but the fact remains that you did cheat on your wife. Vows are still vows and it's still cheating.

 

I didn't cheat on my wife, but I guess you think it is because you live your life based on your own fabricated values which aren't mine. Neither of us is right or wrong, just a matter of interpretation.

 

Do you honestly think that this girl would ever be able to fully trust you? No, she wouldn't.

 

What I hope and what I know can be reality ,don't mix up in my world. I am fully aware other people view things differently than I do, but to make sure I can understand their view, I'll ask them questions. I did ask her questions about her view of my situation and never got any answer.

Now, I can't do more than that from the distance that seperates us.

 

Regardless of if she said she was okay with you being married, I'm sure it's crossed her mind that one day she might be in your wifes place. She would never know if she could trust you because one day she might be the one that you talk about when you tell some pretty young thing that you're in a loveless marriage and that you're going to leave your wife.

 

I'm fully aware of this, however, I can't lie or undo things that are a disadvantage to this situation. From the beginning I have been honest to all parties, what they do with my honesty is out of my control but it doesn't mean that thoughts should start living their own lives without me being able to defend my intentions.

The moment you fall in love with someone else while still being married makes you a cheater to many. Whatever! I am a human being with flaws like anyone else ( who says it's a flaw to fall in love with others anyways).

It's not like I am experienced in falling in love with other women while being married. I've got to learn like everyone else and before I master my behavior in a situation like this I will fall, many times even.

 

No matter what, the honeymoon phase doesn't last. Most women always look at how the man treated the woman before her to see what it's going to be like when the honeymoon wears off. Regardless of if we're 1000% better than that girl, we still do it.

 

Nice to know. But in my situation there is nothing the girl knows about my marriage other than that I want to end it because of unhappyness.

That's always the problem right? I can tell anyone my end of the story but they will never know my wifes story. For all people know I could be BS-ing my way to gain support for my actions.

There will always be the innitiator and unfortunately for me, I'm the big white guy who wants to "get rid" of the "lovely small wife" and replace her with another "tiny woman". The dirty b@stard!

 

Your best bet is to do the things you said you were going to do(leave your wife) and THEN go back and talk to the girl. All you've done up until now is show the girl that you can't be trusted for your word. If you really loved and cared about her and not your wife you would have left her already. Instead you pine for your love while still staying with your wife.

 

The leaving my wife part is coming, but like I said before, I can't end it without considering massive negative consequences in the short run.

I don't care if people think that that means I'm a coward or am using my wife to support me until I am "ready".

Unfortunately I have to deal with consequences that are very difficult to deal with, financialy, emotionaly, socialy and more.

Also, I feel I need to deal with all those for my wife too until she doesn't need my help anymore. That's a lot of pressure!.

Easy to talk about, hard to execute.

[Primate]

You know what, that's ironic you would say that because I'm pretty sure my boyfriend would agree with me on the fact that how you're treating your wife is wrong.

 

How am I treating my wife wrong? I have told her everything she should know. I told her to find the right guy or just go for it if a good guy aproaches her. I treat her the way you would treat anyone else.

I did not cheat so I didn't treat her badly.

My "sin" was falling in love with someone else?. Whatever.... there have been 100s of millions of people that have gone before me, just shows you something about human nature.

 

My boyfriend was cheated on by his ex, who like you had this view that as long as the butterflies in the tummy have evaporated and "love" is no more it's ok to go chasing after something better.

 

Bummer for your BF, but you can't judge everyone else by measuring it up to another "unique" experience.

And I don't have that view like you assume I do. The butterflies didn't evaporate, they have been killed. I was the one who was in love for 5 years when one day I oppened my eyes and noticed my wife didn't have that love for me anymore.

Don't judge me by your limited knowledge about me.

 

Luckily we both know that's not how the real world works, butterflies don't last forever. By the way I don't believe in happily ever after, it's only a delusion made up by Disney, sorry you didn't catch the memo. Marriage is hard work, not a walk in the park, but hard work.

 

You tell me? Whahahahaaa.....uhum. If it's over, it's over. Can't do sh-t about it.

 

When you got married you made a vow to your wife to stick to her until death, am I right?

 

And it's a lie. If everyone would just think about this before answering the vow with a yes, all of us would know it's a lie simply because you can never know the future. Marriage is a dumb ritual, sorry to say so.

 

Now if you made a vow to her to stick with her until you got bored, then I'd have to say there's nothing wrong with what you've done, but I doubt that happened.

 

That's exactly what the interpretation should be. We are animals not robots. Oh, and if the last sentence didn't make you think about it yet, I am godless so any nonsense about and around the whole marriage ritual doesn't affect me.

All you need is rationality and you will see that the ritual means nothing to love that is or isn't there. Too many people in the past, and even today, live(d) in unhappy frustrating marriages simply because they were/are forced to commit to this vow nonsense.

 

So when you made that vow I'm guessing you thought everything would be happy go lucky for the rest of your days until real life set in and you got bored/annoyed/ or whatever. Well I'm sorry your fantasy world was shattered, but as Gary Allan puts it "life ain't always beautiful".

 

The whole marriage / vow nonsense is pretty pointless to talk about. You view that nonsense as a way to make sure you don't give up on marriage because of problems.

I didn't need any marriage or vows to fight for us, but it just died regardless. Can't do anything about it anymore and don't want to to be honest.

 

So as I said before if you really love your wife, let her go. Real love is unselfish and realistic, and the right thing for you to do in this case would be to let your wife go and let her go find someone who loves her as much as she loves you.

 

She is free to go. The ending needs to be arranged though, might not take long anymore.

 

And I'm not bitter about what happened with my ex boyfriend, but I am happy he opened my eyes and let me see how much of an a**hole he was before I got more involved with him than I did. Plus it freed me to find my wonderful boyfriend now, he treats me good and respects me.

 

Well good for you. Don't forget that almost everyone eventually wants to settle down and we all do it our own way, making mistakes towards our goal. Hopefully in 10 years you won't need the reevaluate the status of your love because you two grew apart, for some reason which can't be fixed. Trying to fix unfixable things is pointless, so the only solution will be ending the relationship.

[sweetjasmine]

Throughout this whole thing, you've been playing the poor innocent wounded victim, and now you're doing it in this thread.

 

Please, grow a pair and leave that girl alone. Go find yourself someone who is comfortable with the fact that you're married.

[Els]

Isn't the solution to this easy, OP?

 

Just sort out your own life first. When you at least have the divorce papers filed, decide whether or not you still want this girl. If you do, inform her that the papers have been filed, and see what becomes of it.

[Primate]

Throughout this whole thing, you've been playing the poor innocent wounded victim, and now you're doing it in this thread.

 

Please, grow a pair and leave that girl alone. Go find yourself someone who is comfortable with the fact that you're married.

 

 

What are you talking about? Poor innocent wounded victim?

That is the last thing I think of when I think about myself.

I am the on in the middle ( by my own doing ), am I not? Needn't I know exactly how to deal with this? I'm talking from my own perspective as I can't fully know the perspective of the other parties, now can I?

[Primate]

Isn't the solution to this easy, OP?

 

Just sort out your own life first. When you at least have the divorce papers filed, decide whether or not you still want this girl. If you do, inform her that the papers have been filed, and see what becomes of it.

 

It is actually very easy. The actions and my present situation are unfortunately less than easy ( to overcome), but i've said that many times already.

I know what to do and I should do it and indeed, I need to sort everything out first before trying to go further with " the girl" ( if that is even possible).

[sweetjasmine]

What are you talking about? Poor innocent wounded victim?

That is the last thing I think of when I think about myself.

I am the on in the middle ( by my own doing ), am I not? Needn't I know exactly how to deal with this? I'm talking from my own perspective as I can't fully know the perspective of the other parties, now can I?

 

I don't think you can even see it.

 

But go back and reread your posts. You talk about "how could she do this to me" and "what did I do wrong?".

[wien7777]

Primate, (which certainly is an ironic user-name to have chosen), kindly put aside your reasoning and over-defensive approach that is wholly immature for even a six year old girl. Slowly peel off the cloak of ignorance and pure, unfiltered stupidity. It was warm and comforting, I presume, but you've worn it out.

This is no criticism, and if you interpret it as such you will simply be wrong again. I know nothing of you, you're right- but based on what you have publicly disclosed in this thread, I (along with every other person who has replied) know enough about your present situation.

 

You do not love your wife. She is aware of this, and her feelings are mutual. She may tell you she loves you, but she does not, and for a multitude of reasons. Divorce her, because any other action on your part is petty and inhumane.

 

The other woman does not love you. Regardless of what she may tell you and regardless of what you want the outcome to be- she does not love you. She wants you to leave her alone.

She does not love you; leave her alone. Similarily, any other action on your part is petty and inhumane.

 

Interpret the above as you'd like- keep in mind what I already noted about misinterpreting my words as criticism. First one has to have even the smallest morsel of respect for another to even care enough to criticism them.