mem11363 Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 My bad - I shouldn't have mentioned that one night she insisted we connect but avoided me up until bedtime. She has never done that before or since. I am leaving that one alone since it was a single event and I don't want to raise it like I am complaining. Everyone does something odd once in a while. I don't understand why you don't trust what she tells you? Personally, I'd be bothered by the example you gave of insisting on sex, but also avoiding you for hours prior to sex. That seems "off". I'd want to discuss incidents like that to understand what is going on in her head, and then trust what she's telling you. If you don't trust what she's telling you, there are bigger issues than sex to address.
mem11363 Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 No question about it CCL she is liking the power. And it is power - a lot of power. I am glad she is not jerking me around with it. That would really and truly make me crazy over time. There is a power in sex, and you wife might be totally digging that power. It reaffirms that she is a sexy attractive woman. She is getting something from this, and maybe for her its something that is as important to her as having sex is to you, Mem. CCL
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 I actually think SHE would quickly get upset with me if I started pushing hard to NOT have sex. I think she would say I am putting HER in a no win situation and she would say: - You are refusing to have sex because I don't feel lust - which I cannot control - You ARE going to feel resentful that we aren't having sex because that is how you (this is true - even though it is unflattering) are wired As for masturbation thing - I would rather look forward to an ever more intense experience as the days pass - than take care of myself. Your wife has created a complex powerplay. I'd rather give her space (while maintaining closeness in all other areas of intimacy). Yep I am staying true to my ideal that orgasm = good..... Right now obviously it is not good or satisfying to your wife.... She has shut down and for that I am sorry and hope it is only temporary.
xxoo Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 As for masturbation thing - I would rather look forward to an ever more intense experience as the days pass - than take care of myself. I understand that is your preference, but is it fair if she has to deal with your grumpiness and moodiness in the meantime? Theoretically, if you normally have sex 2x a week, and move to 1x a week + masturbating once, it should not affect the intensity of experience when you are with your wife. It's the same # of orgasms/week. Bottom line, it strikes me as unfair to accept that you are just moody and grumpy when you don't get enough sex with your partner (who is experiencing low libido), and not use the hand god gave you to help you be a supportive, peaceful partner while she takes a break (if she desires). My message would be: "I appreciate how much my pleasure and needs mean to you. I'm concerned about how one-sided sex will affect us in the short and long run. Please feel free to tell me if you are needing a break, and let me take responsibility for my own moodiness."
Jeff1962 Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 I personally could not ever require my wife to have sex with me if she were not into it. It would almost like using someone elses body to beat off if they were not into it. Weird, I know. I would rather have it honest. I would rather take it to the shower myself than to give my body and emotions to someone who was just doing so because that's what I wanted. I'll agree that when we as men and women are not exactly in the mood we can be coaxed and get into the mood. But to say, "hey, it's sex time, take care of me". I'm not into that at all. You might as well go hump a stuffed animal.
giotto Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 You might as well go hump a stuffed animal. I have a collection... only joking... I hope you are doing ok...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 We're really screwing him and his views of sex up with our posts:p....... To each his own.... I'd very much dislike sex if I knew my spouse was going through something and her ability to orgasm is zero (there I go using orgasm, instead of libido or intimacy or sex as I often do). I really hope this is only a short term issue mem11363. What amazes me is your openness discussing sexuality and your dynamic with your wife, but your disdain for masturbation, while admitting if you don't get yours, you become a highstrung/moody/unhappy person when you pass the 4 day mark without any release.
crazycatlady Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Why the focus on the physical orgasm for the woman? Wow I can't believe I just said that . Mem's wife is getting what I would term as an emotional orgasm. Its giving her satisfaction, its probably helping her keep from being grumpy just like the orgasm for Mem is keeping him from being grumpy. Its something SHE can do TO him. What's wrong with that? Its an awesome win win situation, here. Go Mem and his wife for working out a solution that fits their lives. Women are different creatures then men. Women are different creatures from each other too. But I know that if I lost my libido for whatever reason, I would probably respond in a similar way. Why? Because emotionally, satisfying your partner can be just as pleasing as a mind blowing orgasm.
xxoo Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) Why the focus on the physical orgasm for the woman? Wow I can't believe I just said that . Mem's wife is getting what I would term as an emotional orgasm. Its giving her satisfaction, its probably helping her keep from being grumpy just like the orgasm for Mem is keeping him from being grumpy. Its something SHE can do TO him. What's wrong with that? Its an awesome win win situation, here. Go Mem and his wife for working out a solution that fits their lives. Women are different creatures then men. Women are different creatures from each other too. But I know that if I lost my libido for whatever reason, I would probably respond in a similar way. Why? Because emotionally, satisfying your partner can be just as pleasing as a mind blowing orgasm. It's great if that is what is truly going on. His wife says this is the case, but it sounds like Mem isn't sure. I am not nearly so giving with my body when I am non-libidinous, and would grow resentful if I felt pressured. So I can understand the importance of making sure that is not the case, but also think the woman has a responsibility to be honest if that is the case. Still...I can enjoy sex without orgasm,and sometimes don't want to work for the O. I'd be annoyed if I felt pressure from my partner to O. Women are complex. Edited March 25, 2010 by xxoo
crazycatlady Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 It's great if that is what is truly going on. His wife says this is the case, but it sounds like Mem isn't sure. I am not nearly so giving with my body when I am non-libidinous, and would grow resentful if I felt pressured. So I can understand the importance of making sure that is not the case, but also think the woman has a responsibility to be honest if that is the case. Still...I can enjoy sex without orgasm,and sometimes don't want to work for the O. I'd be annoyed if I felt pressure from my partner to O. Women are complex. Too true too true. And she is responsible, she is a grown woman, she's starting it half the time and if she really feels the way she tells Mem then his continual questioning will eventually start to get to her. I think Mem's done what he can to be assured this is her wish and should respect her choice and be happy. And some women never orgasm. Maybe she is one of them. CCL
mem11363 Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 It is not like - lots of sex = always nice not as much sex = jerky Cardio workouts have just as much impact AS LONG AS she is nice about the lower frequency. She doesn't believe that because she thinks my T levels are as high as they were 20+ years ago when it WAS more black and white. In fact 2 summers ago - she has a short memory - she had a pelvic inflammation lasting 2 months. She offered me oral every week and I said "I love you I can be patient all but once - and nope no manual over ride during that time and I was NOT jerky - I felt bad for her" When same inflammation flared up last summer she said - "this is bull**** I am not asking you to go celibate for months at a time for a recurring problem" and she was pretty much adamant about connecting at LEAST every 4-5 days. I WAS tense/edgy recently - sex was a bit less frequent AND I was not working out at all - BAD combo - but I am working out now. I understand that is your preference, but is it fair if she has to deal with your grumpiness and moodiness in the meantime? Theoretically, if you normally have sex 2x a week, and move to 1x a week + masturbating once, it should not affect the intensity of experience when you are with your wife. It's the same # of orgasms/week. Bottom line, it strikes me as unfair to accept that you are just moody and grumpy when you don't get enough sex with your partner (who is experiencing low libido), and not use the hand god gave you to help you be a supportive, peaceful partner while she takes a break (if she desires). My message would be: "I appreciate how much my pleasure and needs mean to you. I'm concerned about how one-sided sex will affect us in the short and long run. Please feel free to tell me if you are needing a break, and let me take responsibility for my own moodiness."
mem11363 Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 She IS getting an Emo orgasm from sex. I am sure of that from how she looks at me before - during and after. And I said she isn't coming I never said she doesn't get turned on - she gets very wet and she SAYS it feels really good. And she tends to be VERY raw in her honest comments about everything so. Why the focus on the physical orgasm for the woman? Wow I can't believe I just said that . Mem's wife is getting what I would term as an emotional orgasm. Its giving her satisfaction, its probably helping her keep from being grumpy just like the orgasm for Mem is keeping him from being grumpy. Its something SHE can do TO him. What's wrong with that? Its an awesome win win situation, here. Go Mem and his wife for working out a solution that fits their lives. Women are different creatures then men. Women are different creatures from each other too. But I know that if I lost my libido for whatever reason, I would probably respond in a similar way. Why? Because emotionally, satisfying your partner can be just as pleasing as a mind blowing orgasm.
mem11363 Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 I am super careful about that. I KNOW that will end badly if I do that. I simply try to make it clear that I would do ANYTHING if it will please her/make it more fun. So sometimes after I ask - is there anything I can do different next time that will make it more fun for you? The more fun is not a pointed comment about having an O, it is a general question about making the experience more fun. But that is a question I have asked now and again over the years so it doesn't cause her to feel pressured. It's great if that is what is truly going on. His wife says this is the case, but it sounds like Mem isn't sure. I am not nearly so giving with my body when I am non-libidinous, and would grow resentful if I felt pressured. So I can understand the importance of making sure that is not the case, but also think the woman has a responsibility to be honest if that is the case. Still...I can enjoy sex without orgasm,and sometimes don't want to work for the O. I'd be annoyed if I felt pressure from my partner to O. Women are complex.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 But all you've written the last 6 months can lead us "under-sexed" males:rolleyes: to wonder whether you have conditioned her to feel responsible, especially with your no-masturbation stance and her knowing you require a release usually in that 3-4 day period, with when you reach 8, you telling her "babe, I'm dying here"..... Trust me mem11363, we are happy for your open, great relationship and probably are unfairly saying some things.....
mem11363 Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 Jeff, Me proceeding when she didn't seem to want to did happen once - a few months ago - and I was super conflicted. I was very very revved up - and then she seemed not into it just as we started and I asked her - but - deep sigh - I KNOW she was hesitant to say right then because I do get really angry when there is a disconnect right at show time. She SAID she was fine but her body language said otherwise. I took her at her word - not nice. So we DID connect - and then the next day she admitted she really didn't want to and I DID feel really bad. There is NO good answer to that one scenario - which is her changing her mind right as the games begin. I really am easy going if she wants a day or two off and says so each day a few hours before bed time. In the last decade I honestly do not recall getting really pissed off if it is just before/after dinner and she says she needs the night off. My guess is that during our first decade of marriage I was not so understanding which I now regret - however she was not good at tactfully communicating so there is plenty of blame to go around during the first half of our marriage. In general though - her affect when we start is absolutely nice and warm and playful and NOT at all hesitant or reluctant. I AM bummed that she is not getting to the finish line or I would not be posting. But I am also good at reading her body language and she is not radiating a keep off vibe. I am going to try to ease her into a greater comfort level that I won't turn into the grinch - by working out more. Just don't lose sight of one thing - it is a narrow path I walk here. This is the same wife who suddenly snapped at me for "fawning" over her last summer when we were TWO WEEKS into a drought and I was being extra extra special nice to disprove the theory that I am a tense prick when deprived. During those two weeks she had inflammation and I was neither touching myself nor asking for mercy sex. I was just being patient and nice. And this one night I was being really nice and extra loving and I gave her this long deep look and said I loved her and she got mad that I was fawning. And when that happened I realized something - me being very loving - gentle - is ONLY ok with her when she acts that way first. If I just radiate that vibe without being invited by her radiating it first - she gets emotionally claustrophobic and THAT is a fuuking scary situation for me. So I am fun / playful - helpful but unless I am getting the deep long loving look I know not to give it. I personally could not ever require my wife to have sex with me if she were not into it. It would almost like using someone elses body to beat off if they were not into it. Weird, I know. I would rather have it honest. I would rather take it to the shower myself than to give my body and emotions to someone who was just doing so because that's what I wanted. I'll agree that when we as men and women are not exactly in the mood we can be coaxed and get into the mood. But to say, "hey, it's sex time, take care of me". I'm not into that at all. You might as well go hump a stuffed animal.
mem11363 Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 The main thing here is that I really do think I am following the golden rule. I mean I truly think I would do for her - what she is doing for me - situation reversed. The thing is that the 2-3 hours a week she spends doing this makes the ENTIRE rest of my week happy. As a simple example the other way - she gets addicted to certain games every once in a while. And whenever that happens I will play that game - racquetball, tennis, currently it is ping pong - an hour or two every day if she wants - without complaint. Because it makes her happy. And I NEVER radiate an impatience or boredom because she reads ME pretty well and that would ruin the fun for her. I know ping pong isn't sex - but I am just trying to point out that we both really do try to please the other. But all you've written the last 6 months can lead us "under-sexed" males:rolleyes: to wonder whether you have conditioned her to feel responsible, especially with your no-masturbation stance and her knowing you require a release usually in that 3-4 day period, with when you reach 8, you telling her "babe, I'm dying here"..... Trust me mem11363, we are happy for your open, great relationship and probably are unfairly saying some things.....
mem11363 Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 She is conditioned to seriously respect my needs. And I am every bit as conditioned to take care of her needs. The main reason that the conditioning works is that both of us truly desire to bring pleasure But all you've written the last 6 months can lead us "under-sexed" males:rolleyes: to wonder whether you have conditioned her to feel responsible, especially with your no-masturbation stance and her knowing you require a release usually in that 3-4 day period, with when you reach 8, you telling her "babe, I'm dying here"..... Trust me mem11363, we are happy for your open, great relationship and probably are unfairly saying some things.....
giotto Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 And I am every bit as conditioned to take care of her needs. The main reason that the conditioning works is that both of us truly desire to bring pleasure yes, but you are the one who is not taking care of himself... so, you've put extra burden on your wife... you know what, I'm getting fed up with this sex rubbish... I really wish I was single, right now, in my life...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 yes, but you are the one who is not taking care of himself... so, you've put extra burden on your wife... you know what, I'm getting fed up with this sex rubbish... I really wish I was single, right now, in my life... I feel terrible about it. Reading this stuff can really gnaw at you at times. Mem11363, we're happy for you, we are. But sometimes my eyes are rolling into the back of my head reading your posts. I must admit I am applauding (envious) of your marathon sessions (1-1.5 hours per if we are talking 2x's/wk)
xxoo Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 (edited) I was very very revved up - and then she seemed not into it just as we started and I asked her - but - deep sigh - I KNOW she was hesitant to say right then because I do get really angry when there is a disconnect right at show time. She SAID she was fine but her body language said otherwise. I took her at her word - not nice. So we DID connect - and then the next day she admitted she really didn't want to and I DID feel really bad. There is NO good answer to that one scenario - which is her changing her mind right as the games begin. I really am easy going if she wants a day or two off and says so each day a few hours before bed time. . I can see the frustration, but not the difficulty seeing the clear answer. Mem, you have sons? I hope you are teaching them that "no means no" at any point in the sexual encounter. Even if you are inside a woman--if she says stop, you get out. As true for wives as it is as girlfriends. This is where masturbation comes in extremely handy. eta...I understand your wife didn't say no. But she meant no and felt unable to say it. Why? Edited March 26, 2010 by xxoo
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 of trying to talk sense to mem11363 as he knows everything and can rationalize it all (as can I:p)..... Am being very sarcastic, so don't jump on me.... The good thing is obviously my testosterone is not that high (though spouse will argue vociferously) and I can go longer without then he can.... But at the end of the day, he'd probably be more relaxed and not as highstrung if he did rub one out every once in a while.....
JamesM Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 of trying to talk sense to mem11363 as he knows everything and can rationalize it all (as can I:p)..... Am being very sarcastic, so don't jump on me.... The good thing is obviously my testosterone is not that high (though spouse will argue vociferously) and I can go longer without then he can.... But at the end of the day, he'd probably be more relaxed and not as highstrung if he did rub one out every once in a while..... Why oh why would I admit to agreeing with you...I just don't know....especially when you are sarcastic... But I will and do. Advising someone about sex when said person has sex twice a week but wonders why his wife does it....is rather difficult when the ones advising him only dream of that much sex. Personally, I think it makes sex better if my "levels" are not too high. I can last longer without as much "tension" built up. For me the intensity is not in the climax anyhow...it is in the journey to that destination. If you really want to change the dynamics, then masturbate so that you do not "need" sex so much. And then when she initiates sex say, "Not tonight, dear, I am tired. I do love you but having a bit of a break will make sex that much more exciting." Doing this may actually get her more physically interested in sex. Just some advice from another guy who has no clue why sex two times a week is really a problem.
giotto Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 Just some advice from another guy who has no clue why sex two times a week is really a problem. lol... I have now officially recovered from this morning's bad mood... To me, once a week would be plenty, because I like to diversify... Yes, I would miss my personal encounters with myself, because they are as pleasurable and nobody is expecting you to be a stallion... But you know, there are people who actually complain if they don't get it at least once a day...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 Why oh why would I admit to agreeing with you...I just don't know....especially when you are sarcastic... But I will and do. Advising someone about sex when said person has sex twice a week but wonders why his wife does it....is rather difficult when the ones advising him only dream of that much sex. Personally, I think it makes sex better if my "levels" are not too high. I can last longer without as much "tension" built up. For me the intensity is not in the climax anyhow...it is in the journey to that destination. If you really want to change the dynamics, then masturbate so that you do not "need" sex so much. And then when she initiates sex say, "Not tonight, dear, I am tired. I do love you but having a bit of a break will make sex that much more exciting." Doing this may actually get her more physically interested in sex. Just some advice from another guy who has no clue why sex two times a week is really a problem. JamesM, you see when we have a common goal, we can revert to the gang mentality and join forces to go after mem11363..... As for the highlighted portion, I really do not see what I would gain ever saying no!!!! Mem11363, now that's another story. As I said (and agree).... Who are we to advise mem11363 of all people???
mem11363 Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 I agree - no means no. To my knowledge - this has happened only once in our marriage. She rarely switches gears at show time but when she does - usually I do get angry. She is not manipulative - just disorganized sometimes so every once in a while comes to bed and is dead tired when the plan was.... Thing is I am simply not willing to play the hall monitor game and ask her every 20 minutes - "babe are you getting tired - are you leaving enough energy for US time?" That feels like adult/to child conversation. This probably happens a couple times a year - and I admit I don't like it. But I do NOT normally push to proceed. And that one night was not a fatigue issue as much as it was we had just watched a show on child prostitution in India that was graphic and ugly and REALLY got in her head. Did not know that until the next day when talking. If she had said "no" that night - YES - I would have been angry - and by mid morning next day we would have gotten past it. I don't STAY angry. And YES I have taught my son that no means no. This is a lesson I have hammered into his head at great length. I can see the frustration, but not the difficulty seeing the clear answer. Mem, you have sons? I hope you are teaching them that "no means no" at any point in the sexual encounter. Even if you are inside a woman--if she says stop, you get out. As true for wives as it is as girlfriends. This is where masturbation comes in extremely handy. eta...I understand your wife didn't say no. But she meant no and felt unable to say it. Why?
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