Mr. Lucky Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I am not about to come to any sort of agreement over sex. Sex is not a barganing tool. I am not placing smiley faces on any calendar and then saying ok, these days we have sex. I am not a factor to be scheduled in. I long for true intimacy with my wife, I also long to make love to my wife. But I will let this love die before I place myself or my needs, or her needs on any calendar. I don't always agree with Mem, but your insistence that your wife not only does what you want but feels the same way about it that you do is doomed to failure. Many couples have mis-matched sex drives, some periodically and some throughout their marriage. Crossing that bridge requires structured accomodations by both partners, usually emotional by the higher-sexed one and physical by the lower-sexed spouse. In your case, you'd have to meet her non-sexual need for intimacy and she'd have to meet your physical need for the affirmation that sex brings. Without discussion and "bargaining", how are you going to agree on how to get that done? If it were an easy and natural process - as you seem to require it to be - there would be a lot less posting on Loveshack... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Oh Lord. I don't know what I just read but I enjoy a personal orgasm each and every day at least once a day with myself. What the Hell? What woman doesn't enjoy an orgasm? It isn't a matter of not enjoying orgasms, but rather the ability to achieve one. Medication and hormones can affect ability to orgasm. Specifically, the decrease in estrogen as women approach menopause can affect sexual arousal and ability to achieve orgasm. And, it is not constant throughout the month. Her experience might not be the same every day. Of course, if this is the case, a caring spouse would see a doctor about what can safely be done to regulate her hormones. But it does explain why a woman can have great, orgasmic sex once a month-ish, and little drive other days. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Maybe you can paraphrase what I was suggesting to Jeff because I think the way I put it was confusing. I was trying to suggest that he put the burden on HER to initiate. On HER to keep track of how often they have been connecting. The low drive spouse tries to pretend that they didn't realize how long it has been since the last time. So when they are given the assignment to put the smiley face on the calendar it does two things. Draws attention to the fact that they are in denial about frequency (they really are not in denial - they know what the frequency is they just won't honestly admit it) and it puts the responsibility on them to do what they agreed to do in terms of frequency. And the LD spouse also tries to pretend that it is the way the HD spouse approaches that causes all the trouble - so this removes that issue. So my suggestion was that the low drive spouse had to: - always be the one to initiate AND - keep track of how often they have sex on the calendar This is after both the partners have agreed on some frequency they can both live with. I don't always agree with Mem, but your insistence that your wife not only does what you want but feels the same way about it that you do is doomed to failure. Many couples have mis-matched sex drives, some periodically and some throughout their marriage. Crossing that bridge requires structured accomodations by both partners, usually emotional by the higher-sexed one and physical by the lower-sexed spouse. In your case, you'd have to meet her non-sexual need for intimacy and she'd have to meet your physical need for the affirmation that sex brings. Without discussion and "bargaining", how are you going to agree on how to get that done? If it were an easy and natural process - as you seem to require it to be - there would be a lot less posting on Loveshack... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Ross PK Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 How about spicing things up a bit? Sex toys? Role play? Dressing up in uniform? Whips? Chains? Etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Samantha0905 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 It isn't a matter of not enjoying orgasms, but rather the ability to achieve one. Medication and hormones can affect ability to orgasm. Specifically, the decrease in estrogen as women approach menopause can affect sexual arousal and ability to achieve orgasm. And, it is not constant throughout the month. Her experience might not be the same every day. Of course, if this is the case, a caring spouse would see a doctor about what can safely be done to regulate her hormones. But it does explain why a woman can have great, orgasmic sex once a month-ish, and little drive other days. I certainly understand a person may have a hormonal issue and yes, he or she should go to the doctor to see if that's the case if it's suspected. It could also be a wife within a marriage may not want to have sex with her husband. If Jeff is doing all he can do and she doesn't have a hormonal issue -- for some reason she just isn't interested -- and I don't think someone should remain in marriage like that. Just my two cents. It's a very lonely existence. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 How about spicing things up a bit? Sex toys? Role play? Dressing up in uniform? Whips? Chains? Etc. I think you need a bulldozer for Jeff's wife... Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff1962 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 How about spicing things up a bit? Sex toys? Role play? Dressing up in uniform? Whips? Chains? Etc. Hahahahaha. Well, she has said that I was so handsome in my dress blues but I am not about to disrespect the honor of my beloved Corps by having sex in my uniform. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Maybe you can paraphrase what I was suggesting to Jeff because I think the way I put it was confusing. I don't think that there was anything confusing about it because it's simply a fact that, under these circumstances, both spouses have to make accomodations for the marraige to prosper. She's going to have to give more than her natural urges might dictate and he's going to have to accept less. And part of his accepting less means understanding that some of the sex they have will be less about "passion" and more about the effort she's putting in. When my wife expresses her love for me in this way, she almost always ends up giving me a blow job because that works for both of us - she only wants intercourse every 7-10 days but accepts that doesn't work for me. I'd like intercourse more often but understand that doesn't interest her. Every couple has to figure out their own middle ground... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Samantha0905 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Hahahahaha. Well, she has said that I was so handsome in my dress blues but I am not about to disrespect the honor of my beloved Corps by having sex in my uniform. Dress blues are sexy!! Link to post Share on other sites
Nikki Sahagin Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I think an earlier poster hit the nail on the head when they said that desire requires mystery and love requires knowing. So, HOW do you blend lust/desire? I think this is why many people have the one they love and the one they sleep with and why many women and men cheat. Because love and desire do NOT always go together. The one you love/respect/care for/build a home with is not necessarily the BODY that you always want to touch and sleep with. Also love and sex are fundamentally at odds. Love is about respect. Sex can often be about power/games/dissrespect. Love is about caring. Sex CAN be purely selfish. I don't really think its natural to expect to be able to blend DESIRE and LOVE. I mean, this may be a harsh analogy but you could say, a partner becomes like an old jumper or teddy bear that you love and that feels secure, but there is no desire or excitement there. This comes from outside/the unknown. Now its not that I don't think partners can be in love and in lust, but too much love can kill lust and too much lust can kill love. How can you keep two such different things in sync? Link to post Share on other sites
Nikki Sahagin Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I would like to add. I don't believe my parents ever have sex anymore (don't ask why) I remember having a conversation with my mum once where she admitted she loves my dad, but isn't IN love anymore. I don't know if SOME men are more loyal and women more fickle. But I know that my mothers not in love anymore...and I always found that very sad, as I believe my dad still IS in love. I think if one partner is not IN love, then desire/excitement/lust disapear. Its like loving a friend, you don't want to touch them do you? Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I would like to add. I don't believe my parents ever have sex anymore (don't ask why) I remember having a conversation with my mum once where she admitted she loves my dad, but isn't IN love anymore. I don't know if SOME men are more loyal and women more fickle. But I know that my mothers not in love anymore...and I always found that very sad, as I believe my dad still IS in love. I think if one partner is not IN love, then desire/excitement/lust disapear. Its like loving a friend, you don't want to touch them do you? I love my spouse, because I desire her..... If I did not desire her (i.e. sexually), not so sure I'd be in love..... Again being honest and living up to my screen name.... Link to post Share on other sites
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Yeah, it's great to teach teenage boys that the worth of a woman should be dependent on how many times she wants to do it. I would agree with you if we were not talking about marriage. The worth of a wife many times centers around this. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 (edited) I love my spouse, because I desire her..... If I did not desire her (i.e. sexually), not so sure I'd be in love..... Again being honest and living up to my screen name.... An important part of my love (and the marriage) is that I desire her..... If I did not, I'm not sure how I'd feel..... Maybe that is the point... None of these women desire their husbands..... Again a sad indictment on the "better halves".... Edited March 5, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 An important part of my love (and the marriage) is that I desire her..... If I did not, I'm not sure how I'd feel..... Maybe that is the point... None of these women desire their husbands..... Again a sad indictment on the "better halves".... But isn't it true that many of our wives don't "desire" us in the same way and to the same extent that we desire them? I think a marraige can survive an imbalance in sex drives if there is a balance in love and consideration. And a partner that loves you and considers your needs doesn't turn their back on your need to be sexually validated in your relationship. That fact alone makes me skeptical of posts that say "I know that my wife loves even though she continually turns me down for sex". I've yet to understand how that can work... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Any comments on how it goes in a M where the wife has desire and H has desire but has ED? After awhile, disappointment leads to lack of desire and poor confidence on the man's part. I ask because I heard a pretty relevant story this past weekend IRL where such a circumstance led to an EMA (wife) due to 'lack of intimacy'. Stipulating to the EMA being unhealthy, one would presume (I did) that it would be incumbent upon the man to do everything within his power to restore both his potency and his desire. That's his job, I felt. I supported that perspective. Is not a woman whose loins no longer stir in the same boat, if she's married? The boat of being responsible for her own body, mind and libido? If it don't work no more, fix it or get out Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 There must not be many "oldish" people on this thread ... in my experience of late, it seems to be more women unhappy because their husbands have lost interest and / or ability for sex, while they themselves are perishing with unrequited desire. Just a note from the elderly set! Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 I'm 50, know a couple guys with ED and prostate issues. The story I related was of a man in his early 40's. The issues and responsibilities are relevant for both genders, especially within a marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2dance Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 But isn't it true that many of our wives don't "desire" us in the same way and to the same extent that we desire them? I think a marraige can survive an imbalance in sex drives if there is a balance in love and consideration. And a partner that loves you and considers your needs doesn't turn their back on your need to be sexually validated in your relationship. That fact alone makes me skeptical of posts that say "I know that my wife loves even though she continually turns me down for sex". I've yet to understand how that can work... Mr. Lucky This is what I can't wrap my head around...If you continually deny someone something that is important to me how can you really say you love them??? Any comments on how it goes in a M where the wife has desire and H has desire but has ED? After awhile, disappointment leads to lack of desire and poor confidence on the man's part. I ask because I heard a pretty relevant story this past weekend IRL where such a circumstance led to an EMA (wife) due to 'lack of intimacy'. Stipulating to the EMA being unhealthy, one would presume (I did) that it would be incumbent upon the man to do everything within his power to restore both his potency and his desire. That's his job, I felt. I supported that perspective. Is not a woman whose loins no longer stir in the same boat, if she's married? The boat of being responsible for her own body, mind and libido? If it don't work no more, fix it or get out Absolutely!!! Again, it would take work but when something is as important as the sexual relationship b/t a husband and wife it should be worth a little work!!! I keep reading and reading and still can't figure out where my situation fits in...guess I need to find time to write my LONG story! Link to post Share on other sites
EmmaLou Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 There must not be many "oldish" people on this thread ... in my experience of late, it seems to be more women unhappy because their husbands have lost interest and / or ability for sex, while they themselves are perishing with unrequited desire. Just a note from the elderly set! True!... I read another forum which is full of countless threads started by women who's husbands have lost their desire, and they just won't talk about it or try and fix it. A few ladies had reached the 25+ year mark without sex, yet they've stayed as they've loved their husbands. So it really is both sexes, it's not just limited to men.. which makes you wonder if this 'men feel loved through sex' theory applies to all men. I understand how it feels to be rejected, but thankfully my boyfriend just needed to quit weed and it's brought his desire back. Phew! I also understand what it feels like to have low desire myself.. when I was on the contraceptive pill, I thought I would be able to enjoy all the carefree sex that I wanted! But it took all of my desire away, to the point of any touching of my sexy bits felt horrible... like they were numb.. my mind couldn't get to that place either. I missed sex, but doing it wasn't a nice experience. It was painful because I couldn't get turned on, and because my mind wasn't into it, it felt forced. Thankfully my boyfriend had a low desire at the time due to weed, and he was happy with blowjobs. Hormones are powerful things... I will never use hormonal contraceptives again, and I'm so happy to be back to feeling horny and enjoying being sexual. I really do wish all of you luck, and think some of you are amazing for sticking by your partners! Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 This is what I can't wrap my head around...If you continually deny someone something that is important to me how can you really say you love them??? Absolutely!!! Again, it would take work but when something is as important as the sexual relationship b/t a husband and wife it should be worth a little work!!! I keep reading and reading and still can't figure out where my situation fits in...guess I need to find time to write my LONG story! They love their husbands, but not in "that way"... Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 it's a natural thing that after 10 years of ****ing the same person you'll grow tired of him. I think the people who say that pretend this is natural because they don't know how to sustain that attraction over the years. I think the really good marriages are the ones where the attraction remains. These are the happy few. I think it has to do with being able to create a very profound bond where you keep discovering new things about each other. For me in a long relationship, it either becomes better or it becomes worse. Status quo is not possible. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 I think the people who say that pretend this is natural because they don't know how to sustain that attraction over the years. I think the really good marriages are the ones where the attraction remains. These are the happy few. I think it has to do with being able to create a very profound bond where you keep discovering new things about each other. For me in a long relationship, it either becomes better or it becomes worse. Status quo is not possible. Frankly all it takes is to remain active and attractive, do the little things and engaged in your spouses life..... Don't have to work hard, just make a commitment to try and be happy and enjoy life..... Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Frankly all it takes is to remain active and attractive, do the little things and engaged in your spouses life..... Don't have to work hard, just make a commitment to try and be happy and enjoy life..... I agree with you. It is simple yet from reading on LS it seems to be the hardest thing to do. I read here all the time that life, practical stuff, kids, etc... came in the way. And these people are living under the same roof so it is not as if they don't see each other... People seem to take each other for granted so easily. I will never do that, I have been single for two long. The day I will meet a man who wants to share his life with me and I want to share my life with him, he'll always be my first priority. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 I agree with you. It is simple yet from reading on LS it seems to be the hardest thing to do. I read here all the time that life, practical stuff, kids, etc... came in the way. And these people are living under the same roof so it is not as if they don't see each other... People seem to take each other for granted so easily. I will never do that, I have been single for two long. The day I will meet a man who wants to share his life with me and I want to share my life with him, he'll always be my first priority. WITP, as you know from my thread, we lost that connection... human beings are not perfect. We all have our faults and stuff... when you are young and carefree, loving is much easier. There aren't that many worries. Get married, start a family, have many children, get a mortgage, two cars, 3 cats, a dog, full time jobs, nobody to help you and it's very easy to actually "forget" that you are married. You turn into chef, cleaning lady, car mechanic, nurse, babysitter, teacher, gardener, entertainer, father, mother... some days are so intense that you just want to run, believe me... Link to post Share on other sites
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