sex & marriage: a wife's view

[Texsun65]

No doubt sad for her and him. It is humiliating for your wife to to have to rally to give you good loving. Why I ask you?

 

I gaurantee this is a large part of the reason for angry and frustrated husbands that often lead to divorce. Our ego cannot take it and it shouldn't have to. Women have no respect for good men and what they need and deserve.

 

 

Well this not the question or statement that was originally posed.

 

Yet scarier and scarier is your cautionary tale. A loving husband, does what a "husband" is expected to do..... yet the point of the story is he is wonderful, loves you, gives you an orgasm and yet you have to rally to have sex with him....

 

Sad does not even begin to convey my feelings about this.....

[Texsun65]

I agree completely.

 

It is interesting, in general, to see what men are saying versus women. Men are wanting love, intimacy and closeness with their wives. We will jum thur hoops, do whatever. We will tolerate years of neglect hoping to one day be rewarded for our loyalty and love.

 

On the other hand, women, in general, lose that flame, become cold and angry then blame their plight on their husbands. From what I hear over and over, men will do and be what women say they want, but the women really don't want it at all. Everything says women need love, attention, and to know that their men love them yet what I hear is that most men are ready willing, able and are provding all of that . The women just don't want it and many of them use that fact to manipulate their studid husbands. We are let around by the short hair with our wives promising something that never happens and the bar and standard to "get there" is always moved.

 

My wife came to the realization that I was about to truly leave our marriage and she has succumbed to my sexual needs, but it is hollow when you know each and every second is a struggle for her.

 

Humiliation.

 

I want a women who can accept and willingly and freely reciprocate my love and affection. A romantic and sexual relationship is the central to that interaction and is not an inconvenience.

 

I have remained faithful and loyol thru all these years of crap and now I am supposed to survive on sympathy sex.

 

Disgusted

 

Crap. Now I'm all bummed out over this topic.

 

If my wife were to tell me in all honesty that, "hey, I need this or that from you", I would jump thru hoops and fight dragons with a butter knife and stuff like that;) to make her happy because I love her and I want to make her happy.

 

This whole sex/intimacy topic has me down today. As a man I too desire intimacy, I really do. I need to feel loved and needed and appreciated. I would like nothing more than true intimacy with my wife. I feel that this is missing on both ends of my relationship.

 

I fantasise about really being loved by a woman all the time. I am growing tired of the whole senario. Fantasies, desire, longing, lonliness, frustration, masturbation. I'm about ready to give up on the whole damn thing.

[Texsun65]

I couldn't have said this better!

 

 

Well said, carhill. I'm exhausted by the efforts by some, not all, women, to disparage and domesticate male sexual urges in favor of all purpose female intimacy.

 

In practice, this allegedly higher value intimacy is employed like a club to control, dominate and domesticate husbands and boyfriends. It's a mode of domestic control.

 

Why is intimacy better than sex? Better for whom? Who decides one is better than the other? Why?

 

I'd rather fu#k than be intimate.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

mem11363,

 

You make some great points. Sometimes in my marriage it seems that my wife acts like a man as well. She is very unnaffectionate, she doesn't talk much and doesn't like to, regardless of what I do I cannot get mich of an emotional reaction from her with the exception of anger. I have been very thoughfult of her lately and have tried to suprise her with nice gifts like several sets of concert tickets, getting friends together for her birthday, got her lasic surgery lasy year and all she can say is that I spent too much. Not thank you! No happy giggles followed by a roll in the hay.

 

The only conistent emotion is anger despite any efforts of anyone.

 

Yes it seems her greatest emotion is anger too.....

 

Funny my birthday is coming up and my wife asks me what I want.... She knows I want no gifts (have everything I need). What I want is what every man wants.... I want her to get a hotel room for the night, some take out maybe, and we pretend we love each other (which we really do), oh yea and have sex......

Edited March 19, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[mem11363]

Hey - when I said I wanted her to be nice to me - talk to me - hang out with me and be affectionate for a while before sex I really meant it.

 

What I wanted was intimacy and THEN sex. But if I had to choose I would take sex. As a man - it was day 7 or 8 in a row without sex - and my nerves were starting to get raw. Having sex makes me feel good - like a great cardio workout - for several days. Having intimacy feels nice in the moment - but has no lasting effect like sex does.

 

I couldn't have said this better!

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by grogster

Well said, carhill. I'm exhausted by the efforts by some, not all, women, to disparage and domesticate male sexual urges in favor of all purpose female intimacy.

 

In practice, this allegedly higher value intimacy is employed like a club to control, dominate and domesticate husbands and boyfriends. It's a mode of domestic control.

 

Why is intimacy better than sex? Better for whom? Who decides one is better than the other? Why?

 

I'd rather fu#k than be intimat

[giotto]

Hey - when I said I wanted her to be nice to me - talk to me - hang out with me and be affectionate for a while before sex I really meant it.

 

What I wanted was intimacy and THEN sex. But if I had to choose I would take sex. As a man - it was day 7 or 8 in a row without sex - and my nerves were starting to get raw. Having sex makes me feel good - like a great cardio workout - for several days. Having intimacy feels nice in the moment - but has no lasting effect like sex does.

 

I couldn't have said this better!

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by grogster

Well said, carhill. I'm exhausted by the efforts by some, not all, women, to disparage and domesticate male sexual urges in favor of all purpose female intimacy.

 

In practice, this allegedly higher value intimacy is employed like a club to control, dominate and domesticate husbands and boyfriends. It's a mode of domestic control.

 

Why is intimacy better than sex? Better for whom? Who decides one is better than the other? Why?

 

I'd rather fu#k than be intimat

 

Day 11 for me... was expecting some action last night, but no, nothing... it's happening again...

[JamesM]

Day 11 for me... was expecting some action last night, but no, nothing... it's happening again...

 

Don't measure how often or you will go nuts. Only measure the quality of each time and enjoy it.

 

However, if as you say there is no affection (hugs and kisses) outside of the sex), then I think the problem is not sex but the connection that you two have.

 

So....can anything be done to build that connection?

 

Or are you counting the days since she promised to get help?

 

BTW, it has been about a month since I have had sex, but honestly, since our lives have been busy, I have not had time to miss it. And my wife and I do lots of hugging and kissing. That is something which is important to me. So I guess I am not complaining. If there was no affection and more sex, then I think there would still be an emptiness inside.

[JamesM]

 

What I wanted was intimacy and THEN sex. But if I had to choose I would take sex. As a man - it was day 7 or 8 in a row without sex - and my nerves were starting to get raw. Having sex makes me feel good - like a great cardio workout - for several days. Having intimacy feels nice in the moment - but has no lasting effect like sex does.

 

 

 

I'd rather fu#k than be intimat

 

See....this is where I differ and that may be why I can easily go longer without sex. Sex is great, but sex without intimacy is simply a "cardio workout." And that can be had with a Realdoll or a prostitute.

 

It s the "reward" of the woman you love having pleasure from what you do because it is done out of love. It is the enjoyment of receiving pleasure from the woman you love knowing that she does it not because she simply wants sex or because she simply wants to meet a required amount of "sex sessions," but it is because she is doing it out of the desire to have YOU and to because at that moment sex with you is an expression of her love for you.

 

So if I had the choice....it would not be an easy choice. Sex without intimacy is mechanical. Intimacy and never having sex is unfinished.

[giotto]

Don't measure how often or you will go nuts. Only measure the quality of each time and enjoy it.

 

However, if as you say there is no affection (hugs and kisses) outside of the sex), then I think the problem is not sex but the connection that you two have.

 

So....can anything be done to build that connection?

 

Or are you counting the days since she promised to get help?

 

BTW, it has been about a month since I have had sex, but honestly, since our lives have been busy, I have not had time to miss it. And my wife and I do lots of hugging and kissing. That is something which is important to me. So I guess I am not complaining. If there was no affection and more sex, then I think there would still be an emptiness inside.

 

yes, James, but you are a saint... to be honest, if I'm not going to have sex, I'd rather not have the cuddles and the kisses... I wouldn't be able to take it... lol

 

And you are right... I shouldn't be counting the days... it's not healthy. She's done nothing about therapy, as I expected... I'm not going to remind her, though.

[JamesM]

yes, James, but you are a saint... to be honest, if I'm not going to have sex, I'd rather not have the cuddles and the kisses... I wouldn't be able to take it... lol

 

Oh, but I do miss sex...I just don't have time to worry about it. When I get time, then I will get frustrated.

 

And having gone through a period with little affection and an okay level of sex, I think that this isn't easy for me.

 

The thing is...I can handle cuddling and kissing when I know it will eventually lead to sex. However, when it never leads to sex, then I agree....it only leads to anger and frustration.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

See....this is where I differ and that may be why I can easily go longer without sex. Sex is great, but sex without intimacy is simply a "cardio workout." And that can be had with a Realdoll or a prostitute.

 

It s the "reward" of the woman you love having pleasure from what you do because it is done out of love. It is the enjoyment of receiving pleasure from the woman you love knowing that she does it not because she simply wants sex or because she simply wants to meet a required amount of "sex sessions," but it is because she is doing it out of the desire to have YOU and to because at that moment sex with you is an expression of her love for you.

 

So if I had the choice....it would not be an easy choice. Sex without intimacy is mechanical. Intimacy and never having sex is unfinished.

 

James I really do feel for you, but the thought you put in to this (and mem11363 too, but he get's plenty;)) is over the top.

 

I ask the simple question here and really have not got a satisfactory answer.... If having sex results in an orgasm, then it must be good (yes varying degrees of good). I have sat and watched many a TV program with my spouse where the program lasted much longer and the result was not nearly as "satisfying".

 

You James commented the last time you had sex your spouse having multiple Orgasms.... If that was the case, why did she not come back for more (and to continue my TV show analogy) at least on a weekly basis (we'll toss out soap operas for now)?

 

Why all this self analytical crap..... Why all this angst... How a about a decent lay!!!!

 

And really who much cardio are we talking.... Are you really bouncing off the walls???? Geez I must be doing everything wrong.

 

As for Giotto, 11 days, I almost forgot the count...... Sorry....

Edited March 19, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Whateverelse]

Thanks for opening the discussion polecat; been married a long time now and this is kind of where my life is. The sex my wife thoroughly enjoyed in her 20's and 30's has become a recreational event akin to taking a walk in the park. Nobody's going to be hurt emotionally if their spouse suggests a walk in the park and you tell them you don't feel like taking a walk in the park that day. However, she doesnt seem to realize that saying no to intimacy is not the same, as she equates intimacy with an occasional kiss and "I love you," and sex as no more important than a walk in the park. I just have to respect what she wants to do in her spare time, which seems to be to read the paper in bed until she falls asleep, and nothing more. I have no say so in the matter. She sees no connection to my being irritable and distant. We havent communicated very well on this issue, but its a lot easier for me to discuss this on an anonymous message board than in person.

 

I haven't cheated and would have a hard time doing so b/c its not in my nature or upbringing to do so. But I have changed my views on the morality of the public figures who have recently been outed for cheating, like john edwards and elliot spitzer. I understand exactly why they did what they did, and get annoyed by the hypocrisy of the media for only seeing one side of their situation.

 

I don't want to cheat and I don't want the enormous hassle and cost of a divorce and turmoil with my kids. But I can't, in all honesty, say that I am at all happy with the situation right now.

[xxoo]

I ask the simple question here and really have not got a satisfactory answer.... If having sex results in an orgasm, then it must be good (yes varying degrees of good). I have sat and watched many a TV program with my spouse where the program lasted much longer and the result was not nearly as "satisfying".

 

You James commented the last time you had sex your spouse having multiple Orgasms.... If that was the case, why did she not come back for more (and to continue my TV show analogy) at least on a weekly basis (we'll toss out soap operas for now)?.

 

I feel like I've addressed this before, but you just don't like the answers.

 

There are 3 major possibilities, as I see it:

 

1. The woman is not orgasming as the man believes. In your case, I really do believe your wife is orgasming.

 

2. The woman would not be able to orgasm regularly, as she does occasionally. This could be due to hormone shifts, peaking on a day that allows for great sex. Or needing a lot of time to build up libido between events. Or, it could be a fluctuating mental state that affects her "performance". The fireworks she experiences occasionally just might not be possible regularly.

 

3. The woman is able to orgasm regularly, but there is a negative in her experience that counteracts the positive--leading her to avoid it. Maybe it is disturbing thoughts/fantasies, or maybe it is the relationship itself (a desire to avoid closeness with her partner). Or maybe something else.

[JamesM]

James I really do feel for you, but the thought you put in to this (and mem11363 too, but he get's plenty;)) is over the top.

 

I have been accused of being over-analytical before.

 

And mem is not getting "plenty" according to him. That is the key....the quantity is relative to each individual. What one calls enough, another calls a drought.

 

 

You James commented the last time you had sex your spouse having multiple Orgasms.... If that was the case, why did she not come back for more (and to continue my TV show analogy) at least on a weekly basis (we'll toss out soap operas for now)?

 

NO, no, no...she CAN have multiple orgasms, but in her mind, it is alot of work if she is tired. There are many TV shows I enjoy and get pleasure from (not sexual though...in most cases ), but that in now way means I want to experience or watch them many times. That takes away the pleasure.

 

It is not about the orgasms for my wife. It is about the intimate connection to me.

 

 

Thanks for opening the discussion polecat; been married a long time now and this is kind of where my life is. The sex my wife thoroughly enjoyed in her 20's and 30's has become a recreational event akin to taking a walk in the park. Nobody's going to be hurt emotionally if their spouse suggests a walk in the park and you tell them you don't feel like taking a walk in the park that day. However, she doesnt seem to realize that saying no to intimacy is not the same, as she equates intimacy with an occasional kiss and "I love you," and sex as no more important than a walk in the park. I just have to respect what she wants to do in her spare time, which seems to be to read the paper in bed until she falls asleep, and nothing more. I have no say so in the matter. She sees no connection to my being irritable and distant. We havent communicated very well on this issue, but its a lot easier for me to discuss this on an anonymous message board than in person.

 

I haven't cheated and would have a hard time doing so b/c its not in my nature or upbringing to do so. But I have changed my views on the morality of the public figures who have recently been outed for cheating, like john edwards and elliot spitzer. I understand exactly why they did what they did, and get annoyed by the hypocrisy of the media for only seeing one side of their situation.

 

I don't want to cheat and I don't want the enormous hassle and cost of a divorce and turmoil with my kids. But I can't, in all honesty, say that I am at all happy with the situation right now.

 

Well said. The only thing I can point out is....it is in alot of our natures. We just have never let ourselves lose control. Put in the right situation at the right time with the right person, and most of us will discover that we too are as weak as those public figures.

 

Most of us will never be Tiger Woods with multiple partners, but many of us can easily be a John Edwards who is "wooed" in by one woman.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Thanks for opening the discussion polecat; been married a long time now and this is kind of where my life is. The sex my wife thoroughly enjoyed in her 20's and 30's has become a recreational event akin to taking a walk in the park. Nobody's going to be hurt emotionally if their spouse suggests a walk in the park and you tell them you don't feel like taking a walk in the park that day. However, she doesnt seem to realize that saying no to intimacy is not the same, as she equates intimacy with an occasional kiss and "I love you," and sex as no more important than a walk in the park. I just have to respect what she wants to do in her spare time, which seems to be to read the paper in bed until she falls asleep, and nothing more. I have no say so in the matter. She sees no connection to my being irritable and distant. We havent communicated very well on this issue, but its a lot easier for me to discuss this on an anonymous message board than in person.

 

I haven't cheated and would have a hard time doing so b/c its not in my nature or upbringing to do so. But I have changed my views on the morality of the public figures who have recently been outed for cheating, like john edwards and elliot spitzer. I understand exactly why they did what they did, and get annoyed by the hypocrisy of the media for only seeing one side of their situation.

 

I don't want to cheat and I don't want the enormous hassle and cost of a divorce and turmoil with my kids. But I can't, in all honesty, say that I am at all happy with the situation right now.

 

Tiger Woods & Jesse James. Spitzer is a very interesting figure as he admitted he wanted sex, but not the entanglement of a relationship/affair and he lost his position.

 

Jesse James, always a mans man..... Is it any surprise he cheated??? The two work hard, are apart a lot and he is "available'. And please I like Sandra, she is very pretty, seems very nice from all I hear, but is not drop-dead gorgeous. Is he an idiot? Outwardly yes, though we know nothing about their live's behind closed doors...... He was attached to many strippers and porn stars prior to Sandra, so really I'm sure Sandra must have felt uneasy often in the relationship.

 

Tiger basically said two words that sealed his fate "I do". He wanted to be a playboy, have sex all night and women at his beckon call and frankly, while not overly kinky, certainly wild, vigorous sex. That is not what you have with a wife and two young children. I wonder being the voyeur I am if that was ever what he had with Elin. And frankly how Elin can stay with him, knowing that is what he wants and will expect from Elin if he is to be faithful....

 

So then there are us normal guys, who really expect very very little...... And usually get even less.....

[Whateverelse]

I didn't include tiger b/c he is in league of his own, imo. he hasn't been married for a decade or more, like edwards and spitzer and myself, and the numbers are so staggering that he is just too atypical to include in any discussion of this.

 

Women just don't understand that we cant turn if off just b/c they have turned it off. It simply doesn't work like that, and wishful thinking wont make it so.

 

Besides my new found appreciation for roaming politicians, I also have a newfound appreciation for muslim cultures where men take several wives. From what I have seen, they seem to space the wives out so that they are 5-10 years apart in age, and I can see how that would result in a harmonious society for both the husbands and the wives, as that way there are always two people in the house at the same time with libidos that are in sync, as opposed to where I am at right now.

[giotto]

James I really do feel for you, but the thought you put in to this (and mem11363 too, but he get's plenty;)) is over the top.

 

I ask the simple question here and really have not got a satisfactory answer.... If having sex results in an orgasm, then it must be good (yes varying degrees of good). I have sat and watched many a TV program with my spouse where the program lasted much longer and the result was not nearly as "satisfying".

 

You James commented the last time you had sex your spouse having multiple Orgasms.... If that was the case, why did she not come back for more (and to continue my TV show analogy) at least on a weekly basis (we'll toss out soap operas for now)?

 

Why all this self analytical crap..... Why all this angst... How a about a decent lay!!!!

 

And really who much cardio are we talking.... Are you really bouncing off the walls???? Geez I must be doing everything wrong.

 

As for Giotto, 11 days, I almost forgot the count...... Sorry....

 

my wife says she has zero libido and she never thinks about sex... I suppose she occasionally remembers that I exist and have my needs too...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

my wife says she has zero libido and she never thinks about sex... I suppose she occasionally remembers that I exist and have my needs too...

 

Women don't think about sex.... All well and good. I doubt my spouse walks around thinking about what show is on TV during the day (back to my TV analogy) or the book she is reading.... However when the time arises, say it is Thursday, she does know CSI is on TV......

[giotto]

Women don't think about sex.... All well and good. I doubt my spouse walks around thinking about what show is on TV during the day (back to my TV analogy) or the book she is reading.... However when the time arises, say it is Thursday, she does know CSI is on TV......

 

yes, but watching TV doesn't involve sticking another person's body part in yourself... far less invasive (although I don't know about the brain... ).

 

For her it must be like washing the car - and she doesn't do that either...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

yes, but watching TV doesn't involve sticking another person's body part in yourself... far less invasive (although I don't know about the brain... ).

 

For her it must be like washing the car - and she doesn't do that either...

 

She does worry about that.... Like most women, there is 100 things+ on their list ahead of sex.....

 

Giotto, please don't go soft on us and start this psychoanalytical suff on us (sticking stuff into body parts). In actuality is it not men who have more issues in the fact that they want to please the less interested partner (in hopes that it will ignite her libido) and thus want to not screw it up?

 

Or am I way out of it?

[JamesM]

....with TV, the viewer is passive and waiting to receive pleasure.

 

With sex, it is about participation.

 

So, maybe a comparison which can be used is....a sport that is enjoyed or a interactive hobby.

 

And then the analogy can be compared by saying that one is not always interested in participating in said hobby or sport if the work is not done. But even then the analogy is not quite correct because we use hobbies for relaxing from a stressful day. And many of us use TV as an escape mechanism.

 

Sex is an expression of love for many women, and for many men it is also a means of tension release.

 

The problem IMO is that if sex is an expression of love (as wanted by men), then a woman would want to "speak" her man's language when expressing her love for him. And a man would want to "speak" a woman's "love language" to express love for her. If my wife feels my love when I take time to listen and be there for her, or I get her something special as a way to show that I think of her during the day, then it would be remiss of me to think that taking her to a basketball game is an expression of my love if she doesn't consider that special.

 

So, why would a woman think that expressing her love through anything but sex (if that is how her husband best receives her love) is appropriate?

 

It is not about her getting pleasure of him getting pleasure only. It is about showing one another love.

 

If it is just about f*cking, then any warm body will be acceptable. And if that is the case, then why bother waiting for the wife?

 

How is that for over analyzing?

[giotto]

She does worry about that.... Like most women, there is 100 things+ on their list ahead of sex.....

 

Giotto, please don't go soft on us and start this psychoanalytical suff on us (sticking stuff into body parts). In actuality is it not men who have more issues in the fact that they want to please the less interested partner (in hopes that it will ignite her libido) and thus want to not screw it up?

 

Or am I way out of it?

 

No, but I'll be out of it! I have no way of igniting her libido, like James' wife... I'm prepared to give it a go until I'm 50, in 3 years time... if things don't change, I'm out...

[Luv2dance]

Women don't think about sex.... All well and good. I doubt my spouse walks around thinking about what show is on TV during the day (back to my TV analogy) or the book she is reading.... However when the time arises, say it is Thursday, she does know CSI is on TV......

 

Excellent point and I am a woman and I think about sex more than MH. This discussion kills me b/c I feel like maybe something is wrong with me.(well something is wrong with me but that's another thead, lol) I can't understand not wanting sex at all and definitely not if you are in love with someone.

 

The problem IMO is that if sex is an expression of love (as wanted by men), then a woman would want to "speak" her man's language when expressing her love for him. And a man would want to "speak" a woman's "love language" to express love for her. If my wife feels my love when I take time to listen and be there for her, or I get her something special as a way to show that I think of her during the day, then it would be remiss of me to think that taking her to a basketball game is an expression of my love if she doesn't consider that special.

 

This is absolutely correct!!! I understand that our libidos aren't going to match all the time and no of us wants pity sex, but it wouldn't be if it is done to show love. I am sure this has all been hashed out before, but being the woman I want to try to defend their side, but just can't relate.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

No, but I'll be out of it! I have no way of igniting her libido, like James' wife... I'm prepared to give it a go until I'm 50, in 3 years time... if things don't change, I'm out...

 

Having a mid-life crisis....

[giotto]

Having a mid-life crisis....

 

It's lasted 15 years already and no sign of it abating...