indecisive coward

[tbone]

tbone, do you think your wife has figured out that you are having an affair?

 

WS always think they are so sneaky when they are having an affair--no one could possibly know, right? Your wife knows there is something seriously wrong in your marriage--people don't just decide to divorce without a good reason. Sure, people divorce without having an affair but then they are usually able to give their spouse a reason as to why they are leaving the marriage.

 

I don't know whether you should tell your wife about the A or not especially if she doesn't ask. But if she DOES come right out and ask if you are having an A, and she might very well suspect this is the case, please don't lie to her at that point. Tell your wife the truth if she asks. She deserves that much.

 

In her heart I think she knows. The signs are everywhere.

[PhoenixRise]

Phoenix,

 

She came home with the kids today. I know she wants to come home and honestly if anyone should be out it should be me right now. This is the home of my children and they deserve that.

 

I went home briefly to see the children and she was visibly upset and not speaking much.

 

Then the guilt starts to weigh in on me, of hurting someone so badly.

 

 

tdbone

 

I will tell you this.....in my situation, my H had an affair in the wake of a shi*storm that hit our lives. Just about every horrible thing that could happen to him personally and our family collectively happened over the course of approx a year and a half. He bumped into her and she made his life all shiny and new.

 

Along with this we have the normal issues that any long term marriage will have. We had some philosophical differences. But we really loved each other so those differences were never a big deal..... UNTIL he started the affair. Then he had someone there who saw him with brand new eyes..someone who had never seen him fail....someone who didn't rock the boat by disagreeing with him over anything major. THEN our philosophical difference which had never been a big deal became HUGE fights.

 

Maybe you really don't love your wife.

Maybe your affair is clouding things for you.

 

You need to get really clear about who you are, what you want, and what kind of man you want to be. IMO this is independent of any decision to be made between OW VS BW.

[Snowflower]

In her heart I think she knows. The signs are everywhere.

 

Then perhaps you should start an open-ended conversation with her. Please end her torment.

 

Let me put it this way, some of what you are saying reminds me of my H when he was in his A. I knew something was seriously wrong with our marriage when my H started talking divorce more and more frequently. Like you mention, the signs of his A were there for me to see but I was naive and trusting enough that I didn't want to believe it. I was a 'newbie' to the experience of affairs so I can at least excuse myself for not knowing the signs a lot sooner.

 

My H kept telling me that our marriage was over, that it was never right to start with, etc. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out (at that time) why all of the sudden he was talking like this. He had never been like this before. Sure, we had had our problems like any long-term marriage but he had always been consistent.

 

I got the ILYBIMNILY speech a couple of times and in the back of my mind the warning bells went off. I knew deep down that there was someone else who was at least holding his interest. But, I lived in denial for a little longer.

 

Finally, I couldn't stand it any longer...I couldn't deal with the fact that my H was going to divorce me without a good reason. I told him about a week before d-day that I could handle him telling me that he had an affair easier than him just ending our marriage with no explanation.

 

A week later he confessed his affair and what I had suspected deep down was true. But it was a turning point.

 

Do you really think you can just divorce your wife without telling her the truth which she already suspects?

[tbone]

tdbone

 

I will tell you this.....in my situation, my H had an affair in the wake of a shi*storm that hit our lives. Just about every horrible thing that could happen to him personally and our family collectively happened over the course of approx a year and a half. He bumped into her and she made his life all shiny and new.

 

Along with this we have the normal issues that any long term marriage will have. We had some philosophical differences. But we really loved each other so those differences were never a big deal..... UNTIL he started the affair. Then he had someone there who saw him with brand new eyes..someone who had never seen him fail....someone who didn't rock the boat by disagreeing with him over anything major. THEN our philosophical difference which had never been a big deal became HUGE fights.

 

Maybe you really don't love your wife.

Maybe your affair is clouding things for you.

 

You need to get really clear about who you are, what you want, and what kind of man you want to be. IMO this is independent of any decision to be made between OW VS BW.

 

Phoenix,

 

YOur post makes a lot of sense.

 

For me those differences have always been there, but they've always just been pushed behind the curtain, out of the way and ignored. The fester and bubble and I"ve never taken a reasonable approach to recify it. But I don't know if they can be rectified completely. Its more about acceptance and tolerance?

 

No question once the affair started I magnified and focused on those issues and what was festering and bubbling, erupted and I used them as the reason of why I wanted out, and certainly as part of the rationale to myself for why i was doing what i was doing.

[tbone]

Do you really think you can just divorce your wife without telling her the truth which she already suspects?

 

No. I don't think I can.

[Snowflower]

Phoenix,

 

YOur post makes a lot of sense.

 

For me those differences have always been there, but they've always just been pushed behind the curtain, out of the way and ignored. The fester and bubble and I"ve never taken a reasonable approach to recify it. But I don't know if they can be rectified completely. Its more about acceptance and tolerance?

 

No question once the affair started I magnified and focused on those issues and what was festering and bubbling, erupted and I used them as the reason of why I wanted out, and certainly as part of the rationale to myself for why i was doing what i was doing.

 

Then please take the time now to figure out what it is that you really want, away from the influence of the A and (possibly) your marriage.

 

Of course the issues in your marriage seem magnified right now. That is part of the A--emotions become all convoluted. It's good though that you are realizing this and hopefully you will begin to get the clarity that you are seeking about your situation.

 

Rather than rushing to divorce (which might seem inevitable for you right now) perhaps separating from your wife and not seeing the OW will help you make the decisions that you need to make at this point. It is clear by your posts here that you have become increasingly unhappy in your situation and decision to become involved in an A.

 

No. I don't think I can.

 

This is honest!

 

Then you will need to find a way to tell her. I know it has to be difficult. My husband said that telling me was the hardest thing he had ever done but I think confessing allowed him to regain some of his own integrity--for himself.

[jennie-jennie]

I think in Notsure7's situation there really was an affair bubble that burst when the affair was disclosed. He decided to stay with his wife and try to make the marriage better. As far as we know NS7 and his wife are crazy in love with each other and are very happy today. It could only be seen as a premature confession if one thinks that the only good resolution to a confession is that the WS divorces the BS.

 

Or NS7 is out there cheating again with a new OW. Very likely since he was a serial cheater, and a premature confession would continue to keep him out of touch with his own feelings and stuck in the old pattern.

 

I don't agree with you that a confession in due time would not be good even when the WS has decided he wants to stay married. Knowing what you want without being impacted by Dday is never wrong.

Edited March 9, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[PhoenixRise]

Or NS7 is out there cheating again with a new OW. Very likely since he was a serial cheater, and a premature confession would continue to keep him out of touch with his own feelings and stuck in the old pattern.

 

I don't agree with you that a confession in due time would not be good even when the WS has decided he wants to stay married. Knowing what you want without being impacted by Dday is never wrong.

 

 

Possibly. But all we can go on is what he posted, which is that he and his wife were recovering well AND that he was in IC for himself, and MC for the M. This says to me that he is dealing with his feelings and his issues in a healthy way. I don't think he or his wife would say the confession is premature, in fact based on what he posted I would say that HE thinks his confession was overdue.

 

 

As for the bolded part. I think a dday has a much different impact and different implications for the health of either relationship (the M or A) than a confession day.

 

I think sometimes it takes a dday or a confession for a person to get the clarity they need to know what they want. For some people, all of a sudden they can no longer build castles in the air about what they wish, hope, dream and they have to let the rubber meet the road and get real about what they want (M or AP). In this kind of situation, the difference is, NOW you have a fully aware spouse who is now an equal agent in the relationship. Now, waffeling has real consequences. Now you are about to lose something/someone you value (even if you have til that point been taking them for granted)

 

NS7 confessed because, according to him, he wanted to be a different kind of man, that he deceitful serial cheater he had been. For him, it was not premature.

[Brokenlady]

JJ,

Don't forget it took him at least 3 months of posting before he decided to spill his guts. There were entire threads devoted to whether or not he would be posting the same indecisiveness a year or 10 years later. It was almost comical.

[bentnotbroken]

Or NS7 is out there cheating again with a new OW. Very likely since he was a serial cheater, and a premature confession would continue to keep him out of touch with his own feelings and stuck in the old pattern.

 

I don't agree with you that a confession in due time would not be good even when the WS has decided he wants to stay married. Knowing what you want without being impacted by Dday is never wrong.

 

 

What happened to people can change if they really want to. NS7 wasn't the only serial cheater on here who walked away from that life style. Boldjack did too. Just because many thought he didn't do it in their time frame(see any similarities between what is supposedly said to ow/om who aren't willing to go nc but want out of the mess:confused:). It's always about the WS not being impacted any more though they are the one that brought the time bomb home and deposited in the middle of the room.

[Brokenlady]

About the decision itself (the M or the AP)- it's really a lesser of two evils kind of decision --because either way is still going to be a loss. XDM used to say that he didn't think he could ever be as happy as he was when he was cheating on his xW with me because he had it all. He had the satisfaction of an intact family and passion and love with me. (And of course the healthy delusion that it wasn't at the expense of his xW and me). Despite his unahppiness with his relationship with his xW, the pluses of the arrangement outweighed the minuses for him. When he left to be with me, his xW went psycho and he handled the whole thing really badly. So, for lack of a real decision, and screwing us both around with lies, implications, and mixed messages, he lost us both.

 

What I hope for tbone is that he can face the reality that he is going to have a loss either way and not try to deny or manipulate to keep things going both ways. I hope that he can make a clear decision and put his head and heart behind it fully.

[jennie-jennie]

JJ,

Don't forget it took him at least 3 months of posting before he decided to spill his guts. There were entire threads devoted to whether or not he would be posting the same indecisiveness a year or 10 years later. It was almost comical.

 

And still he flip-flopped! NS7's thread was one of the first threads I read on LS, so I missed the stuff about him going on for three months. I did see that he had a gambling issue however. So did my exSO - he too was both a compulsive gambler and a serial cheater. I wonder if these two aspects are connected, if the serial cheating is also some kind of compulsive behavior.

[torranceshipman]

I think you should step back and see where you can limit the damage, in the most pragmatic way you can. Have an honest talk with the OW and see how she feels about you and what her expectations are. Then take some time and decide if you are on the same page. If you know she wants more than you want, then you need to end it, or at least be honest with her, about your intentions. Best you stop gaslighting 2 women as it's so cruel. Take it one day at a time. Do that first, keep going to IC, and think things through. Although you criticize your M and your W, it is interesting that you have another woman to go to, a great potential R all set up, yet you don't want to take it. Maybe there is more to sticking around than just 'for the kids'? Worth consideration but I can imagine its hard to think clearly right now. Take one step at a time and give yourself time to digest and experience each change you make and I think you'll see things clearer.

[2sunny]

Do you really think you can just divorce your wife without telling her the truth which she already suspects?

 

 

No. I don't think I can.

 

i actually think you can. it takes courage. the thing is - for you to leave your W with not knowing what went wrong is to purposely torture a woman. this isn't right.

 

just tell her. she will at least have the relief at the truth - o matter how bad it is... at least somethings will begin to make sense to her.

 

to purposely torture her like that is just completely wrong.

[tbone]

Thank you all for the replies. I know people grow weary of ws's like me who can't "fish or cut bait", but reality is I have grown very isolated and this gives me a forum to hash out my feelings and think through things, and its been so helpful in at least helping me move towards something better.

 

Updates. AP broke NC and asked for me to see her and I caved. The addiction was too strong last night. Like many others I've read about the thrill of it crashed as you leave and you swear to yourself you won't do this anymore. I felt disgusted in what I did to her, myself, and my family. It

 

I reached a dark place inside that I can't ever recall being, bordering on despondent. I called a couple of friends that I haven't talked to in years because I needed someone to talk to.

 

Today I met one of those friends and we had a long discussion. Everything we talked aobut made sense. It was like a pep talk to do the right thing. We hashed out the scenarios and basically arrived at the point where I HAVE TO END THE A. Easier said than done, but I have to do this for good.

 

I say I love her and in some ways I'm sure I do, but I can't continue to damage her life and have her hanging in the balance and at the same time damage my home life irrepairably at the same time. I need to commit to figuring things out at home and resolve that without the interference of the affair. Its not fair to her (ap0. This will be painful as well as she has put so much stock in us, but I have to find a way to do it.

 

Secondly I have to tell the wife. I have GOT to find a way to start being honest. With myself and everyone else. The gravity of this is really starting to hit home. I run through what i would say in my mind and its AWFUL. This is more than just an out of town fling on a business trip. I have told countless lies to continue the affair. Blantant lies right to her face.

 

It really sunk in today that if I were faced with the same confession there is no way I could stick around. The things I have done are so damaging. I led a complete second life with another woman. I really question whether my W will stick around after faced with the facts. But I have to face the consequences of my actions. When I really start going down the laundry list of things I did its staggering, and repulsive.

 

I have issues that need to be addressed. I am a "grass is always greener" type of person. I'm always looking for the next "thing" that will make me happy. The next job, the next possession, and it finally caught up with me in a relationship. I have little doubt that if I were to leave the W for the AP i would wake up within a year and be unhappy again.

 

But all I can do is try to be honest and do my best to commit to trying to rebuild our relationship if that is what my W wants.

 

I am going to see the therapist alone again this weekend to formulate a gameplan for revealing my indiscretions. I want to go over with him what I plan to say, a trial run if you will, and get his input.

 

I'm thankful to have a good friend. The kind of person you can pick up the phone after not speaking much for years. You say you are in a bad bad place and they drop everything and drive 1.5 hours to help. He knew it was one of two things. Either an affair, or I was in deep debt. He brought his checkbook and $5k in cash. EVeryone should be lucky enough to have a friend like that. The tears stream down my face thinking about it.

 

I don't know what is going to happen. But I know that I have to be able to look my oldest son in the eyes for the rest of life and know I did my best to keep things together for him and his siblings. He will be disappointed beyond belief in his father. But going on like this would be even worse and I can't bear that thought.

 

Now, step one.

[2sunny]

step one is to admit... that is the step of truth.

 

now, when you tell her - just let her take the lead and ONLY answer the question(s) she asks. she may not ask at once - or have as many questions as you anticipate. she may need to process.

 

the point is - it is a starting point for both of you.

 

when she has questions after that - it will be up to you to be as honest as possible without hurting her further. she will tell you what she needs to know. just be honest.

 

the more honest you can be - the more healing is possible. to hold back is the same as withholding the healing.

[bentnotbroken]

You are blessed to have a friend like that. I know what a rarity that is, I too have been blessed with a friend like that. What you say sounds good. It sounds like maybe you see a glimpse of what the storm has destroyed in it's path. May I make a suggestion, find out why you have no self love. No joy which leaves you searching for something to fill that place that can't be filled from outside sources. You must find out what is not happening within you because you can't look your son in the eye if you can't look within yourself for the answers.

[NoIDidn't]

tbone, I am not up-to-date on your thread and dilemma, but I am glad your friend really came through for you. Sounds like this friend has seen this before and was able to be there for you ("for such a time as this", kind of thing).

 

I wish you clarity.

[tbone]

Remember, your son will forgive you..Kids grow up and have their own lives. Don't waste your precious years with them in constant turmoil.

 

My friend had a son with a woman he didn't marry. He and his son don't have a close relationship even though he is a great man. He explains that his father is really the man his son's mother married. The relationship is not the same and it hurts him greatly.

 

That bothered me. Its not the only reason to stay in a marriage, i know that. But i need to at least try for their sake.

[bentnotbroken]

tbone..don't be so hard on yourself. You were unhappy in your marriage, you strayed.. Go back to the root of your unhappiness, where did things go wrong that led you astray.. Confessing will help clear your concience..it won't make your marriage any better..Remember, your son will forgive you..Kids grow up and have their own lives. Don't waste your precious years with them in constant turmoil.

 

The right decision will come to you..Maybe you just might find happiness being a single man.

 

BTW I am the OW, and reading your thoughts break my heart..I am trying NC with my MM..I respect your honesty.. Stella

 

This isn't to beat up on the OP, but we all should be hard on ourselves. We should hold ourselves to a standard that doesn't hurt us or others. Tbone has been pretty lax with himself and now he is in a situation that is not only going to cause him some major pain but a lot of other people too. He appears to be looking for a solution and the courage to carry it out, but being hard is necessary at this point to come to a decision.

[White Flower]

And still he flip-flopped! NS7's thread was one of the first threads I read on LS, so I missed the stuff about him going on for three months. I did see that he had a gambling issue however. So did my exSO - he too was both a compulsive gambler and a serial cheater. I wonder if these two aspects are connected, if the serial cheating is also some kind of compulsive behavior.

Serial cheating can be an idication of other serial (addictive) patterns but are not always a neccessary presence or corroloation.

[White Flower]

I have little doubt that if I were to leave the W for the AP i would wake up within a year and be unhappy again.

 

What is it about YOU that you are unhappy with? THAT is the key to this whole thing.

 

For some it is addiction, others a lack of connection with their SO, and still another thing for others. Fix tbone before you fix anything else.

 

 

But all I can do is try to be honest and do my best to commit to trying to rebuild our relationship if that is what my W wants.

You scare me with this statement. Right now it only matters what tbone wants. If you are not happy, you cannot make anyone else in your life happy.

[DrNancyKalish]

Glad you are having fun when I am talking about real research projects. Nancy Kalish, the woman behind the study is a Ph.D. and a professor in psychology at University of California. She has been published in many professional journals.

 

Yes, it is real, published research, even honored a few years ago at a psychology conference - 16 years of it, 42 countries, 4000 couples and additionally, all the people who contact me with stories. It's all my work, not a group of people, and my research is the only research to date on these couples.

 

BUT: all I conclude is that lost love reunions between high school sweethearts can be successful, provided the people are single, divorced, or widowed, and separated years ago for situational reasons that no longer exist. They grew up together and share a type of upbringing, which makes them compatible years later.

 

These reconnections are very intense, and many people who contact a lost love, like on Facebook, are not intending to cheat.

 

BUT: just because it is a high school sweetheart is not permission to have an affair. People make choices and are responsible for those choices. People don't get "swept away"; they choose.

 

There is nothing biologically supported that forces these reunions to work. People are not "imprinted" on each other and "must" be together. Of my 1600 participants who had never tried reunions, very few adults had any interest in doing so. If this were "imprinting", all teens would imprint. Teen hormones cannot explain this.

 

I actually agree with the person who wrote: the "Destroyed Family Project" or the "Kids will never look at Daddy the same Project"? I am not causing this, just reporting it; but it is sad to me nonetheless.

 

When I started this research, there were few married people in the sample, so I had happy stories. Now, I find a lot of destroyed families. If someone is married, they should have no contact with a lost love. People have choices.

 

I am not saying that it is an easy choice to back away from a married lost love; but look at it if for no other reason than self-preservation, because these affairs almost always end badly for everyone.

Edited March 10, 2010 by DrNancyKalish
clarified

[moaningmyrtle]

Yes, it is real, published research, even honored a few years ago at a psychology conference - 16 years of it, 42 countries, 4000 couples and additionally, all the people who contact me with stories. It's all my work, not a group of people, and my research is the only research to date on these couples.

 

BUT: all I conclude is that lost love reunions between high school sweethearts can be successful, provided the people are single, divorced, or widowed, and separated years ago for situational reasons that no longer exist. They grew up together and share a type of upbringing, which makes them compatible years later.

 

These reconnections are very intense, and many people who contact a lost love, like on Facebook, are not intending to cheat.

 

BUT: just because it is a high school sweetheart is not permission to have an affair. People make choices and are responsible for those choices. People don't get "swept away"; they choose.

 

There is nothing biologically supported that forces these reunions to work. People are not "imprinted" on each other and "must" be together. Of my 1600 participants who had never tried reunions, very few adults had any interest in doing so. If this were "imprinting", all teens would imprint. Teen hormones cannot explain this.

 

I actually agree with the person who wrote: the "Destroyed Family Project" or the "Kids will never look at Daddy the same Project"? I am not causing this, just reporting it; but it is sad to me nonetheless.

 

When I started this research, there were few married people in the sample, so I had happy stories. Now, I find a lot of destroyed families. If someone is married, they should have no contact with a lost love. People have choices.

 

I am not saying that it is an easy choice to back away from a married lost love; but look at it if for no other reason than self-preservation, because these affairs almost always end badly for everyone.

 

Are you for real?

 

It must be so annoying when people selectively quote your research to prove their point, when really your research was not directed at the particular point they are making.

[bentnotbroken]

What is it about YOU that you are unhappy with? THAT is the key to this whole thing.

 

For some it is addiction, others a lack of connection with their SO, and still another thing for others. Fix tbone before you fix anything else.

 

 

You scare me with this statement. Right now it only matters what tbone wants. If you are not happy, you cannot make anyone else in your life happy.

 

 

Here, here. With this statement, I see more pain for the people in your life and it won't too pleasant for you.