indecisive coward

[jennie-jennie]

You have probably noticed the power of an affair with a teenage sweetheart. There is nothing like it. Just so you know what you are dealing with. It is called rekindling and there have been studies done about it. The Lost-Love Project is one.

 

Glad you are having fun when I am talking about real research projects. Nancy Kalish, the woman behind the study is a Ph.D. and a professor in psychology at University of California. She has been published in many professional journals.

 

Tbone, I found an interesting paragraph in a book by the Nancy Kalish I mentioned earlier, "Lost & Found Lovers: Facts and Fantasies of Rekindled Romances".

 

"The men were similarly torn. True, their preference, unlike the women's, was to begin the affairs and worry about the consequences later, but they did feel the consequences. Several men called in tears, torn between the passion of Lost and Found Love and the stability of spouses and children, homes, and marital assets. Almost all of them chose to leave their marriages and start over with their Lost and Found Lovers. These men never expressed any regrets about their decisions to follow their hearts. But their initial losses - of money and property, time with their children, and community status - were considerable, and their decisions to leave their spouses were not made lightly."

 

I too am in a rekindled relationship.

 

Are you for real?

 

It must be so annoying when people selectively quote your research to prove their point, when really your research was not directed at the particular point they are making.

 

And what was the point I was trying to make which would be so annoying? That there exists a phenomena which is called "rekindling"? That is quite an insulting remark by you, Myrtle.

 

Oh, I can see now that my first post can be misunderstood. Rekindling does not specifically imply an affair. But an affair can be the result of rekindling.

Edited March 10, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Brokenlady]

My friend had a son with a woman he didn't marry. He and his son don't have a close relationship even though he is a great man. He explains that his father is really the man his son's mother married. The relationship is not the same and it hurts him greatly.

 

How much effort did he expend on trying to have the same kind of relationship with this "other" son? Having kids with 2 different women is a bit different - because there's other kids right in front of you to focus on too. Be careful generalizing this scenario to yourself.

 

AFter my xH and I divorced, he actually became MUCH more involved with the kids than he ever was when we were together. I daresay the divorce improved their relationship - apparently it took extreme measure for him to get his priorities in order.

 

That bothered me. Its not the only reason to stay in a marriage, i know that. But i need to at least try for their sake.

 

But if your heart isn't in it, it's not going to work. You can do it for the kid's sake, but only if it is in addition to the more important dimension - doing it for your OWN sake.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Brokenlady

[jennie-jennie]

Are you for real?

 

It must be so annoying when people selectively quote your research to prove their point, when really your research was not directed at the particular point they are making.

 

I came upon that paragraph when I was reading on Amazon considering whether to buy Dr Kalish' book or not. I thought it was an interesting description of the kind of situation tbone is in and thought it might interest him. It interested me because it is pertinent to my situation which is also a rekindled relationship.

 

Again, which point was I trying to make, other than that rekindled relationships are an immensely powerful experience? Is there anything in Dr Kalish' post above that contradicts that?

[PhoenixRise]

Tbone

 

You are indeed very blessed to have a friend like the one you described.

 

I see that you have made some decisions regarding telling your wife and ending the affair. I see that you a afraid of ending up like your friend with no deep connection to your children and some other man possibly being the primary male figure in their lives. I see you posting about trying to make it work with your wife (perhaps primarily for the sake of the kids).

 

I think you are right to end the affair and tell your wife the truth. I think you need to do these things to recover your integrity.

 

I think it is legitimate to consider the fact that if you divorce and your wife remarries, there will be another man who has that day to day presence with your children. However you are their father and no one will be able to replace you. Your friends situation is different than yours. You might have to share your children, BUT you won't be replaced.

 

Frankly, right now I don't think you should be even be thinking about making any relationship work. You say that you have "grass is greener" syndrome. This says you can't be in a healthy relationship with anyone. When you tell your wife the truth about the affair, tell her that you KNOW that what you did was the result of YOU being messed up. Tell her that you want some time to do IC so that you can be a better man and so that you can build healthy relationships.

 

Before you throw yourself into save the marriage mode, work on saving yourself.

 

Maybe this will lead you to be a good husband to your wife.

Maybe this will lead you out of the marriage.

 

Either way, if you don't fix what is broken inside you, you won't be any good to anybody else.

[tbone]

I know I have to work on myself. This is without question. I also have to do what I can to try to make this work because of a commitment I made and also to be able to look my oldest son in the eye and know I did my best for him.

 

I don't know what the outcome of this will be. I just know that I have to be honest and begin some sort of journey towards being the man I want to be.

 

Right now honestly the hard part is telling my AP partner that I am done. Not because I don't want to. I do. Actually telling a few friends about it to some degree brought what I've done to light, and that minimal exposure has brought a great deal of clarity to my feelings. Its difficult to crush her as well, but it has to be done.

 

My W called our counselor today and set up a IC session the hour prior to mine. I called him and suggested we just get this done this weekend. I don't see any benefit to putting it off a week anymore. It won't change anything. It just has to be done. He was fine with this as long as I had a solid answer for her as to what I wanted at this point.

 

About my friend. He made a commitment to call me everyday to check in and encourage me. I'm so thankful for his friendship.

[2sunny]

I know I have to work on myself. This is without question. I also have to do what I can to try to make this work because of a commitment I made and also to be able to look my oldest son in the eye and know I did my best for him.

 

I don't know what the outcome of this will be. I just know that I have to be honest and begin some sort of journey towards being the man I want to be.

 

Right now honestly the hard part is telling my AP partner that I am done. Not because I don't want to. I do. Actually telling a few friends about it to some degree brought what I've done to light, and that minimal exposure has brought a great deal of clarity to my feelings. Its difficult to crush her as well, but it has to be done.

 

My W called our counselor today and set up a IC session the hour prior to mine. I called him and suggested we just get this done this weekend. I don't see any benefit to putting it off a week anymore. It won't change anything. It just has to be done. He was fine with this as long as I had a solid answer for her as to what I wanted at this point.

 

About my friend. He made a commitment to call me everyday to check in and encourage me. I'm so thankful for his friendship.

 

this is great progress. you are getting clarity and are forming a plan of action. since you have decided to tell the OW that it is over - it is best not to hesitate. that only makes it worse. the other benefit would be that when you inform your W of the circumstances - she may get some comfort in knowing that you ended it and are ready to get started on the repair work within the M.

 

i'm sending you positive energy for strength and courage. you're doing great!

[Dexter Morgan]

Background: Its a the same old worn out story. Married 9 years. 3 children. I cheated. I've had an affair going on 6 monts with a childhood friend and teenage lover that I happened to reconnect with. This is a full blown physical, emotional affair that has gotten serious.

 

Previously I was going through the motions of marriage, but failed to do anything to change that to try and make it better, and instead took the easy way out for fulfillment and had the affair. Once it started I completely detached from spouse. I have been sleeping separately, no sex, no nothing. Gaslighting, the whole nine yards.

 

At this point its time to fish or cut bait. I can't continue down the road I'm on.

 

cut bait and set your wife free from you. Life is too short and she could be out there finding a decent man to spend her life with.

[White Flower]

cut bait and set your wife free from you. Life is too short and she could be out there finding a decent man to spend her life with.

That is for HER to decide once she is told. Not everybody is as unforgiving as you are. Further, she may find it decent that he confessed even if he is confessing something indecent.

[fooled once]

How much effort did he expend on trying to have the same kind of relationship with this "other" son? Having kids with 2 different women is a bit different - because there's other kids right in front of you to focus on too. Be careful generalizing this scenario to yourself.

AFter my xH and I divorced, he actually became MUCH more involved with the kids than he ever was when we were together. I daresay the divorce improved their relationship - apparently it took extreme measure for him to get his priorities in order.

 

 

But if your heart isn't in it, it's not going to work. You can do it for the kid's sake, but only if it is in addition to the more important dimension - doing it for your OWN sake.

 

Regarding the bolded - I had the exact opposite -- my ex showed as much disinterest in our son as he did in our marriage. At least in our marriage, he was "forced" to see him when he came home at night. After the divorce, he didn't have him overnight for a year -- and he lived 10 miles away. He rarely took his visitation and when he did take visitation, it would have him under 24 hours.

[fooled once]

I know I have to work on myself. This is without question. I also have to do what I can to try to make this work because of a commitment I made and also to be able to look my oldest son in the eye and know I did my best for him.

 

I don't know what the outcome of this will be. I just know that I have to be honest and begin some sort of journey towards being the man I want to be.

 

Right now honestly the hard part is telling my AP partner that I am done. Not because I don't want to. I do. Actually telling a few friends about it to some degree brought what I've done to light, and that minimal exposure has brought a great deal of clarity to my feelings. Its difficult to crush her as well, but it has to be done.

 

My W called our counselor today and set up a IC session the hour prior to mine. I called him and suggested we just get this done this weekend. I don't see any benefit to putting it off a week anymore. It won't change anything. It just has to be done. He was fine with this as long as I had a solid answer for her as to what I wanted at this point.

 

About my friend. He made a commitment to call me everyday to check in and encourage me. I'm so thankful for his friendship.

 

But won't you be doing the same thing to your W? Do you have the same kind of sadness, difficulty in telling the woman you asked to marry you, the woman who has given you children, the woman who has remained by your side while you went out and had a 2nd 'life' - what about how much SHE is going to be crushed? Do you feel compassion for what you are about to do to her?

 

I think it is great you are ending the affair, but it seems to me you are only doing it because you don't want your son to look at you like a cheater who crushed his mother. You don't seem to be doing it because you are truly sorry for what you have done to HER. I find that sad and telling.

 

I also feel bad that your wife was the one to move out temporarily - she had to uproot the children and get away from you for a few days. Also very telling in this whole mess.

 

I don't know -- I just really think you are using excuses. You supposedly are going to end the affair, but you haven't. You are going to tell your wife, but you need a dry run with the counselor first. During all this, your wife is wondering what is going on with you, what has she done, what mood you are going to be in when you get home today, what is she going to say that is going to set you off, etc. She is examining her actions and wondering what she did -- and you are letting her continue to go through that daily hell while you figure out what you want.

 

While I do think it is good you have made a decision - for goodness sakes, ACT on it already. I guess I don't understand how you can 'act normal' at home knowing what you are about to do to her. I don't know if I could 'act normal' knowing I am about to blow someone's world apart.

 

When I knew I was done with my first marriage, I sought out a lawyer on Monday, met with her on Wednesday and told my ex that day what I was doing. I couldn't just drag it out. I couldn't walk around with the knowledge of what was going to happen and "act normal".

 

I agree with the poster who said you need to figure out what is going on within you before even thinking of having any other relationship going forward - with your wife or any one else. I also think separation (not necessarily divorce) is the starting point. Maybe trust can be built back up, maybe not. But you shouldn't hold it against your wife if she chooses to not forgive you for the months of deception and lies and broken trust.

 

I also thought this was really good - real or not real - and I believe the same thing!

 

I conclude is that lost love reunions between high school sweethearts can be successful, provided the people are single, divorced, or widowed, and separated years ago for situational reasons that no longer exist.

 

These reconnections are very intense, and many people who contact a lost love, like on Facebook, are not intending to cheat.

 

BUT: just because it is a high school sweetheart is not permission to have an affair. People make choices and are responsible for those choices. People don't get "swept away"; they choose.

There is nothing biologically supported that forces these reunions to work. People are not "imprinted" on each other and "must" be together. Of my 1600 participants who had never tried reunions, very few adults had any interest in doing so. If this were "imprinting", all teens would imprint. Teen hormones cannot explain this.

 

When I started this research, there were few married people in the sample, so I had happy stories. Now, I find a lot of destroyed families. If someone is married, they should have no contact with a lost love. People have choices.

 

I am not saying that it is an easy choice to back away from a married lost love; but look at it if for no other reason than self-preservation, because these affairs almost always end badly for everyone.

[jennie-jennie]

The poster called Dr NK said:

 

"BUT: all I conclude is that lost love reunions between high school sweethearts can be successful, provided the people are single, divorced, or widowed, and separated years ago for situational reasons that no longer exist."

 

Now first of all I don't know if this poster is genuine so I don't know if the above comment is an accurate reflection of the work of the real Dr NK.

 

If it is, then I feel you took her work out of context to imply that your A was somehow different to other sorts of As in that it had a better chance of success (ie the married man leaving his wife for you). If the poster is genuine she has put a proviso on it that simply does not apply to your situation. So if she's "real" then she might just be annoyed about this, after all she has taken the trouble to post in response to you.

 

If she's not the real Dr NK then anything I said about it can be disregarded.

 

Myrtle, I am very confused. Can you point me to anywhere in this thread where I talked about chances of success at all, let alone better chances of success, for affairs with rekindled couples?

 

I quoted above all of my posts I could find in this thread which had to do with rekindled relationships. I can not see anything in them about chances of success. I do remember writing a post on February 9th in another thread about statistics (What are the chances?). Is it this post that is lingering in your mind? I can't see how anything is misrepresented there either.

 

Obviously Nancy Kalish is pro marriage and that is why she bothered to post on LS. I can't see her refuting anything I said.

 

I found some statistics online after googling studies of lost-and-found-love.

 

One study of 1600 plus lost-love reunions from 2005 showed that 62% were extramarital affairs, as opposed to an earlier study where it was only 30%. Internet is the explanation of the increase.

 

Another study of 1000 lost-and-found lovers showed that 75% were still together after a decade. When these lovers married each other, the divorce rate after 4 years was 1.5%, which should be compared to that for any second marriage which is almost 25% after 5 years.

 

It looks pretty encouraging for those of us in rekindled love affairs. What one would need is of course a study of only lost-and-love extramarital relationships and their success versus failure rates, but this is what I found so far.

 

There is a dark side of this of course:

 

"Lost-love reunions may linger in limbo—or they may destroy marriages. 'The true victims are the spouses who never saw it coming,' Kalish says....

 

Most spouses don't realize the risk when a partner announces that first e-mail from an old high-school friend, says Kalish, but if the friend is of the opposite sex, alarm bells should go off. Likewise, she says, 'if you're married, think long and hard before contacting that first love. Your life may be forever changed.'"

 

(The above stats and the quote are taken from an article in Pshycology Today, 2006/06: "Lost Love: Guess Who's Back?")

 

I wonder if it might indeed be Zwieback's post from that old thread you are thinking of:

 

They won't, most likely. The type of affair most likely to survive after the divorce of the original two marriages is the "lost love" affair, i.e., the one where an old boyfriend/girlfriend from each other's pasts somehow finds each other again, and where they originally broke up that relationship due to circumstances beyond their control rather than incompatability. I guess there are other kinds that might survive, but the kind where two lunatics just collided with each other more or at less at random I don't think is one of them.

[jennie-jennie]

They won't, most likely. The type of affair most likely to survive after the divorce of the original two marriages is the "lost love" affair, i.e., the one where an old boyfriend/girlfriend from each other's pasts somehow finds each other again, and where they originally broke up that relationship due to circumstances beyond their control rather than incompatability. I guess there are other kinds that might survive, but the kind where two lunatics just collided with each other more or at less at random I don't think is one of them.

 

There is nothing biologically supported that forces these reunions to work. People are not "imprinted" on each other and "must" be together. Of my 1600 participants who had never tried reunions, very few adults had any interest in doing so. If this were "imprinting", all teens would imprint. Teen hormones cannot explain this.

 

What Zwieback says above "where they originally broke up that relationship due to circumstances beyond their control rather than incompatability" I believe is an important provision for couples' desire to get reunited. At least that is what I found Francesco Alberoni writing about in his books, that this kind of love never really dies. This might indeed be (my thinking only) the explanation to what Dr. Kalish states in the quote above, that very few of her 1600 participants who had never tried reunions were interested in doing so. Perhaps they did not fulfill this provision?

[jennie-jennie]

Obviously Nancy Kalish is pro marriage and that is why she bothered to post on LS.

 

I just want to edit what I wrote above. Of course I can not know what Dr. Kalish' motivations for posting on LS were, I can only make a guess, so I should have written:

 

Obviously Nancy Kalish is pro marriage and that is in my opinion most likely why she bothered to post on LS.

[tbone]

Its set for Saturday. No real turning back at this point. I am not putting it off another week for a dry run with the counselor. That was the part of me trying to again delay the inevitable. However the W is at a breaking point and I have to give her something.

 

Act normal at home? I was able to fool myself for awhile. I haven't been able to for awhile and its taken a toll on everyone. I'm ashamed I haven't had the gumption to do something earlier. But it is what it is at this point.

 

Yes, I feel compassion for the W and what this is going to do to her. Again, for awhile I found ways to justify and rationalize it. Now it has overwhelmed me the devastation that I am going to unleash.

 

EVen that being the case it is not easy to automatically cut ties with an AP. It IS an addiction. It is a choice, but nevertheless difficult to be consumed by something for 7 months and then to just severe those feelings totally.

 

I am no longer experiencing those overwhelming teenage, puppy dog love feelings, but still experience some baseline caring for her as a person. I know it is wrong, but those are my feelings, and its hard to not feel for her to some degree for the pain I've caused her. But it has to be done, and I"m getting slightly stronger as the days go by.

[stampdaddy]

That'll do little pig, that'll do.....

[scatterd]

T-BONE I am proud to here you are finally going to do the right thing all this is going to make you understandd yourself better.You are going to have pain as your wife it could make your marriage stronger with time or you know but you are growing you feel guilt which shows something good luck I hope you and your wife can work this out.I hate divorices mostly when kids are involed.

Edited March 11, 2010 by scatterd

[Brokenlady]

I am no longer experiencing those overwhelming teenage, puppy dog love feelings, but still experience some baseline caring for her as a person. I know it is wrong, but those are my feelings, and its hard to not feel for her to some degree for the pain I've caused her. But it has to be done, and I"m getting slightly stronger as the days go by.

 

Feelings aren't wrong. Acting on them may be, but having them is just being human. I am glad you feel some remorse about what you've done to her - it bothers me that some MM have no remorse whatsoever for leading on the OW. But I am glad you finally decided to set her free instead of dragging her through the mud with you while you figure out what you want - that really is the kindest thing.

 

Regarding your wife's reaction, you may be overestimating how bad it will be, especially if she already suspects and you have truly ended it with the OW. Rest assured it will be of some comfort that you are telling of your own volition after ending the A. The fallout from all this will likely help you dull the feelings about the OW and six months from now you'll all be feeling much better. (Humans have a funny tendency to overestimate how happy good events will make them and how sad bad events will make them, but usually the effects of both wear off in 6 months.)

 

I am glad you are trying to regain your integrity. That has to be priority #1. Until you can regrasp yourself, it'll be hard to have any relationship. You're doing great.

[tbone]

That'll do little pig, that'll do.....

 

I"ve been waiting to hear from you. Your bluntness and conviction helps guide me to do something right oddly enought.

[stampdaddy]

I"ve been waiting to hear from you. Your bluntness and conviction helps guide me to do something right oddly enought.

 

well, hopefully you know that was a movie reference (Babe) and me not calling you a "pig"...

 

I believe you both will feel a great sense of relief when you give her the brick. At least she will know what she is dealing with. Again, this doesnt mean neccessarily that you just come out and say that you have been having an affair, it will more than likely be brought up in your MC session (they are not stupid).

 

Bottom line is that things ARE about to change, forever, and nobody knows what that change will be....

 

http://www.americanidol.com/videos/season_9/performances/?ref=ai9_header_videos_itunes_perf

[whichwayisup]

Tbone, just speak from your heart.. Own what you've done, don't blame her for your choices in cheating.

She is at fault for her part in the demise of the marriage, but with that said, it's not a justification TO cheat.

 

I hope all goes well..Though to be honest, I doubt she's going to shocked or floored. Her suspicions will just be confirmed, that's all.

 

As upsetting and emotional Saturday will be, atleast the truth is coming out.

[Dexter Morgan]

That is for HER to decide once she is told. Not everybody is as unforgiving as you are. Further, she may find it decent that he confessed even if he is confessing something indecent.

 

Its for HER to decide? really? hmmm....seems to me he has already decided that he doesn't desire her and would only stay for the wrong reasons. If she decided to stay with him after he told her, "I don't want you but I want the marriage for all the other reasons", then she'd be a fool.

 

whats to forgive when the cheating spouse doesn't want her?

 

as far as everyone not being as unforgiving as me, you are right. there are plenty of people here to tell him, and her if she were here, all the rosey stories of forgiveness.....I offer the other side, I could say, not everyone is willing to blindly forgive as you would.

[Brokenlady]

Its for HER to decide? really? hmmm....seems to me he has already decided that he doesn't desire her and would only stay for the wrong reasons. If she decided to stay with him after he told her, "I don't want you but I want the marriage for all the other reasons", then she'd be a fool.

 

 

That may be, but it's still her choice. Some people do stay im marriages even knowing it's only for conveinience.

[Dexter Morgan]

That may be, but it's still her choice.

 

not necessarily. there are two people in this marriage. he can make the choice for her.

 

what point is there in him staying if he doesn't want her?

oh well, then I guess he can stay in the marriage for the finances, etc, and continue to cheat.

[Brokenlady]

not necessarily. there are two people in this marriage. he can make the choice for her.

 

what point is there in him staying if he doesn't want her?

oh well, then I guess he can stay in the marriage for the finances, etc, and continue to cheat.

 

I don't get this. You keep railing about telling the BS so they can choose, now you say he should choose for her. If she wants to stay knowing the truth, that's on her, and it's for none of us to feel sorry for her about it - that would be her choice.

[Dexter Morgan]

I don't get this. You keep railing about telling the BS so they can choose, now you say he should choose for her.

 

sure, there are no inconsistencies there. one can desire a couple different outcomes...it doesn't have to be all of one or nothing.

 

If he was to tell her and be COMPLETELY honest with her and tell her that he doesn't want her, just doesn't want to get divorced because of the kids and money....then unless she doesn't want him and wants to stay in the marriage for the same reasons, I highly doubt anyone would want to stay with someone that doesn't want them and wants a marriage only for convenience.

 

Some might, but I would suspect a very few some.

 

 

If she wants to stay knowing the truth, that's on her, and it's for none of us to feel sorry for her about it - that would be her choice.

 

alot of people don't have the slightest clue what the best thing for them is. there are alot of hurt and desperate people out there and don't realize just how wonderful life is without someone like the OP in their life. why? because they aren't thinking clearly.

 

Like I said, if she fully understands and just wants the marriage for convenience and money, then ok.

 

but i doubt very few people would want to stay in a marriage if someone told them, "I don't want a divorce, but I don't love you anymore and have no desire for you"