indecisive coward

[White Flower]

Its for HER to decide? really? hmmm....seems to me he has already decided that he doesn't desire her and would only stay for the wrong reasons. If she decided to stay with him after he told her, "I don't want you but I want the marriage for all the other reasons", then she'd be a fool.

 

whats to forgive when the cheating spouse doesn't want her?

 

as far as everyone not being as unforgiving as me, you are right. there are plenty of people here to tell him, and her if she were here, all the rosey stories of forgiveness.....I offer the other side, I could say, not everyone is willing to blindly forgive as you would.

I wasn't going to respond but I will. Dexter, perhaps you don't know this but forgiveness is very good for the soul. It is often recommended to forgive another person *for yourself* because it rids YOU of the toxins in your body that can lead to illness such as cancer, etc.

 

And most people don't fogive 'blindly' when they do forgive. It is usually disected, churned, mulled over, and considered to the point of insanity before it is done. I hope one day you can learn to forgive for yourself.

[PhoenixRise]

This is all assuming that Tbone's wife will want him back after the affair is disclosed.

 

Whether he stays in the marriage or not may not be up to him anymore.

 

His wife will have a say and she might say goodbye.

 

Lots of women divorce over an affair.

 

IMO the work of true reconciliation is way too much of an emotional rollarcoaster unless there is love involved.

[bentnotbroken]

I actually agree with Dex on the point he should not only tell her of the A but what his true emotions and intentions are. If he tells her he doesn't want her, that he isn't attracted to her, that he finds it hard to end things with the OW, then she can make the choice on whether she wants to stay with those odds stacked against her. I personally believe there are more AP who don't tell and of those who do tell never tell the partner what an up hill battle it is because they don't love them at all and in some cases never did.

 

Had Mr. Messy told me everything he felt and given me an opportunity to make my choices based on that info. I don't know if that would have made a difference, but it certainly would have shown me he had some balls and enough respect for me to make the choices for my life.

[stampdaddy]

I actually agree with Dex on the point he should not only tell her of the A but what his true emotions and intentions are. If he tells her he doesn't want her, that he isn't attracted to her, that he finds it hard to end things with the OW, then she can make the choice on whether she wants to stay with those odds stacked against her. I personally believe there are more AP who don't tell and of those who do tell never tell the partner what an up hill battle it is because they don't love them at all and in some cases never did.

 

Had Mr. Messy told me everything he felt and given me an opportunity to make my choices based on that info. I don't know if that would have made a difference, but it certainly would have shown me he had some balls and enough respect for me to make the choices for my life.

 

alas, "the Brick"

[tbone]

I actually agree with Dex on the point he should not only tell her of the A but what his true emotions and intentions are. If he tells her he doesn't want her, that he isn't attracted to her, that he finds it hard to end things with the OW, then she can make the choice on whether she wants to stay with those odds stacked against her. I personally believe there are more AP who don't tell and of those who do tell never tell the partner what an up hill battle it is because they don't love them at all and in some cases never did.

 

If I were to be honest, it is hard to say I love my wife at this very point. I have killed those feelings during the affair. Some people maybe can carry on with two women at once, loving the both equally. A balancing act. As odd as it sounds, I'm a one woman man in a way. Once I took up with the AP I killed off ANY feelings I had for the W. Admittedly they were very much on life support regardless.

 

But what will my feelings be if I commit to trying to rebuild the relationship? If I can get out of the fog of the affair is it possible to regain some of the respect, love, and attraction that I had at some point with my wife? My counselor says its possible.

 

My intentions? My intentions are to try and make it work.

[bentnotbroken]

If I were to be honest, it is hard to say I love my wife at this very point. I have killed those feelings during the affair. Some people maybe can carry on with two women at once, loving the both equally. A balancing act. As odd as it sounds, I'm a one woman man in a way. Once I took up with the AP I killed off ANY feelings I had for the W. Admittedly they were very much on life support regardless.

 

But what will my feelings be if I commit to trying to rebuild the relationship? If I can get out of the fog of the affair is it possible to regain some of the respect, love, and attraction that I had at some point with my wife? My counselor says its possible.

 

My intentions? My intentions are to try and make it work.

 

I agree with you. I don't believe you can love two people at once. I do believe you have to focus on loving only one. And I believe you are also correct that the feelings for the spouse have to be on "life support" or already dead waiting to be buried.

 

 

Your counselor is right, anything is possible. But until you regain some respect, love and honor for yourself, why should your wife be attracted to you and want to stay married to you? I don't presume to know how your wife will react or even if she will react. But I do know a man who wants a woman knows how to go about getting that woman. You have to just figure out if she is the woman you want.

[White Flower]

If I were to be honest, it is hard to say I love my wife at this very point. I have killed those feelings during the affair. Some people maybe can carry on with two women at once, loving the both equally. A balancing act. As odd as it sounds, I'm a one woman man in a way. Once I took up with the AP I killed off ANY feelings I had for the W. Admittedly they were very much on life support regardless.

 

But what will my feelings be if I commit to trying to rebuild the relationship? If I can get out of the fog of the affair is it possible to regain some of the respect, love, and attraction that I had at some point with my wife? My counselor says its possible.

 

My intentions? My intentions are to try and make it work.

I have a feeling you are trusting your counselor more than your gut on this one and maybe that is a core difference between men and women. Stella is right, once it has died for a woman there is no getting it back. Is it different for men?

[jennie-jennie]

I don't think it was in this thread but one a few days/weeks ago. As I recall you indicated on the basis of a research project you cited (or maybe someone else cited it), that rekindled love affairs had a higher chance of success than "ordinary" affairs. Or maybe you just strongly agreed with ztoast.

 

What you said in this thread was:

 

"You have probably noticed the power of an affair with a teenage sweetheart. There is nothing like it. Just so you know what you are dealing with. It is called rekindling and there have been studies done about it. The Lost-Love Project is one."

 

This implied to me that you were saying the Lost-Love Project was a study of current affairs that were being had with former teenage sweetheart.

 

However I got the impression from Dr MK's post that it was a study of current relationships (not affairs) that had been "rekindled". If she's correct, that it wasn't a study of affairs, but rather relationships that were not affairs, then it was misleading for you to imply it was a study of affairs.

 

OK, I can see what you mean, Myrtle. This was a poor phrasing on my part. It happens sometimes, as you know, that you are so clear in your mind what you are talking about that you don't notice that what your written words are implying is something else.

 

Now knowing that I did not realize that I had phrased my initial post poorly, do you understand that I reacted strongly to your post below, since this was not my intent? Your words were very humiliating.

 

It must be so annoying when people selectively quote your research to prove their point, when really your research was not directed at the particular point they are making.

 

There is only one more post in yet another thread where I have brought up statistics from Dr. Kalish' study, but I did not mention her name in that post. I must admit that post was also poorly phrased. Perhaps this is the post that has lingered in your mind? It is in the thread "Evidence shows the majority of MM's do not leave their wives for the OW.", and it is in response to NID stating:

 

"The stats also bear out that second and subsequent marriages fail far more often than first time marriages."

 

Correcting my poor phrasing from the original post:

"Except if your love is a lost-and-found love from your past. In that case a second or subsequent marriage between you two only holds a 1.5% risk of divorce within 4 years. Pretty good odds, huh, compared to normal divorce stats."

 

(The original post said:

"Except if your MM is a lost-and-found love from your past. In that case a second or subsequent marriage between you two only holds a 1.5% risk of divorce within 5 years. Pretty good odds, huh, compared to normal divorce stats.")

 

As you saw in my post from the thread "What are the chances?" I had prior to this elaborated more carefully on the matter:

 

Another study of 1000 lost-and-found lovers showed that 75% were still together after a decade. When these lovers married each other, the divorce rate after 4 years was 1.5%, which should be compared to that for any second marriage which is almost 25% after 5 years.

 

It looks pretty encouraging for those of us in rekindled love affairs. What one would need is of course a study of only lost-and-love extramarital relationships and their success versus failure rates, but this is what I found so far.

 

My intent has never been to misrepresent Dr. Kalish' work and I would appreciate a gentler pointing out of my mistakes instead of presuming a bad intent on my part. Dr. Kalish did not herself quote or even mention anything from my first post on this thread, so it does not seem to me that my poor phrasing was the reason she was posting here on LS.

Edited March 12, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[JustJoe]

Jennie, please tell me more about this, DR. Kalish. Where can I read more about her study. Jesus, I'm shaking! Is it possible to re-connect with someone you have loved and lost? I always thought that was fiction.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, please tell me more about this, DR. Kalish. Where can I read more about her study. Jesus, I'm shaking! Is it possible to re-connect with someone you have loved and lost? I always thought that was fiction.

 

Joe, I suggest you start with reading online the article "Lost Love: Guess Who's Back?" in the magazine "Psychology Today", 2006/06.

 

The emotions when reconnecting with a lost sweetheart are powerful indeed. I have never during my entire life time experienced anything even in the vicinity of it.

[JustJoe]

Joe, I suggest you start with reading online the article "Lost Love: Guess Who's Back?" in the magazine "Psychology Today", 2006/06.

 

The emotions when reconnecting with a lost sweetheart are powerful indeed. I have never during my entire life time experienced anything even in the vicinity of it.

Does this sort of thing happen often? Man, if I could see my GF from college, and if she still cares, it would turn night into day, for me.

[jennie-jennie]

Does this sort of thing happen often? Man, if I could see my GF from college, and if she still cares, it would turn night into day, for me.

 

Be careful with what you wish for though, Joe, she might be married.

 

I would suggest you do some careful research to find out her marital status before contacting her.

 

I believe the likelihood of a reunion with rekindled emotions depends on what the circumstances were that led to your separation. But it seems from what you are saying, there are still emotions there. Would you care to share what caused your separation?

 

Tread carefully though, Joe, this is a road which is very difficult not to travel once started upon.

[Brokenlady]

tbone,

I tend to agree with stella and whiteflower on this one. I couldn't get back my mojo for my xH either. There are other MM posters here who have had the best of intentions to rebuild the M and not any luck in that department either - read posts by Devil Inside. He went NC with his xOW last summer and yet it sounds as though he is still as "stuck" as you. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t220323/

 

When the M is deeply unsatisfying prior to the A, especially when it is for reasons that are not within the ability for the parties to change (ex: intellectual disconnection, religious differences, etc), and the A isn't simply the result of boredom or addictive compulsion, the M is pretty much over, IMO.

 

Here's another: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t224357/

Edited March 12, 2010 by Brokenlady

[tbone]

24 hours to go. My mind is a mess thinking of what I'm going to say.

 

I guess honesty is the best policy. For once in my life perhaps.

[whichwayisup]

I guess honesty is the best policy. For once in my life perhaps.

 

Yes. Be honest.. NO point in hiding, lying now - Lay it all out there. Atleast by doing this, it's a start to either fixing or totally ending your marriage. Deep down I think you know that things couldn't go on like they have been.

[PhoenixRise]

24 hours to go. My mind is a mess thinking of what I'm going to say.

 

I guess honesty is the best policy. For once in my life perhaps.

 

 

Yes. Absolutely be honest.

[tbone]

Yes. Absolutely be honest.

 

It seems like what I honestly feel fluctuates throughout the day. But I'll do my best, I guess honesty is saying that as well.

[PhoenixRise]

It seems like what I honestly feel fluctuates throughout the day. But I'll do my best, I guess honesty is saying that as well.

 

Yes. If you honestly are confused or if your feelings fluctuate tell her that too.

 

Good luck

[tbone]

Good luck

 

I'll take all i can get. Thanks.

[stampdaddy]

"C'mon everybody! Let's hear it for Tbone!!"

 

Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone, Tbone

 

you can doooooo it!

[Dexter Morgan]

I wasn't going to respond but I will. Dexter, perhaps you don't know this but forgiveness is very good for the soul.

 

I'm sure it is. I have forgiven past gf's before.....but then I told them I never want to see them again:cool:

 

and I don't forgive for the sake of forgiving, forgiveness has to be justified.

 

 

It is often recommended to forgive another person *for yourself* because it rids YOU of the toxins in your body that can lead to illness such as cancer, etc.

 

but if you only forgive for yourself, and don't believe someone is worthy of forgiveness, then its not really forgiveness.

[Dexter Morgan]

i actually agree with dex on the point he should not only tell her of the a but what his true emotions and intentions are. if he tells her he doesn't want her, that he isn't attracted to her, that he finds it hard to end things with the ow, then she can make the choice on whether she wants to stay with those odds stacked against her. i personally believe there are more ap who don't tell and of those who do tell never tell the partner what an up hill battle it is because they don't love them at all and in some cases never did.

 

exactly!!!!!!!!

[Dexter Morgan]

If I were to be honest, it is hard to say I love my wife at this very point. I have killed those feelings during the affair. Some people maybe can carry on with two women at once, loving the both equally. A balancing act. As odd as it sounds, I'm a one woman man in a way. Once I took up with the AP I killed off ANY feelings I had for the W. Admittedly they were very much on life support regardless.

 

I rest my case:cool:

 

 

But what will my feelings be if I commit to trying to rebuild the relationship? If I can get out of the fog of the affair is it possible to regain some of the respect, love, and attraction that I had at some point with my wife? My counselor says its possible.

 

of course your counselor says its possible:rolleyes:

 

anything is possible....winning the lottery is possible....

 

if counselor said its not possible.....well then there......the session is over.

 

 

My intentions? My intentions are to try and make it work.

 

Why? you will always want yourself a little "strange" and won't be content with having sex with the same woman for the rest of your life. I can tell based on your posts that you are that type.

 

Tell me you won't pine and get the hankerin' to bone someone new because it would be fresh and exciting to you.

[Chingaling]

Joe, I suggest you start with reading online the article "Lost Love: Guess Who's Back?" in the magazine "Psychology Today", 2006/06.

 

The emotions when reconnecting with a lost sweetheart are powerful indeed. I have never during my entire life time experienced anything even in the vicinity of it.

 

I am going to echo Jennie-Jennie here. Dr. K has several articles that are available on line, a book or two and her website. The statistics are interesting to consider - not every reunion between LL is a smash hit, but there are some that may be pre-disposed to burst into flames. Those are the ones that have such unbelievable pull... and are so hard to resist.

 

I was so relieved when I read her research - up until then I rather thought that there was something wrong with me. I now understand that I am not alone with my feelings... Once I stopped fighting them everything fell into place...

[tbone]

 

 

of course your counselor says its possible:rolleyes:

 

anything is possible....winning the lottery is possible....

 

if counselor said its not possible.....well then there......the session is over.

 

Why? you will always want yourself a little "strange" and won't be content with having sex with the same woman for the rest of your life. I can tell based on your posts that you are that type.

 

Tell me you won't pine and get the hankerin' to bone someone new because it would be fresh and exciting to you.

 

I hear you on the counselor saying its is possible. I wonder the same thing when I read the marriage books. I am always asking myself if this information is real or just to sell more books. But certainly there are examples of recovery from this.

 

Will I always have a hankerin'? I've resisted any hankerin' I ever had for 9 years. Then I gave in. I'd like to tell you that I am not that type but my actions speak louder than words in reality.

 

14.5 hours to go. Little of the clarity I desire to know what to say. I feel like I'm leading a lamb to the slaughter tomorrow.