indecisive coward

[White Flower]

To a large extent its as simple as I know what is going to happen to the relationship between me, as the father, and my children if I choose to leave.

 

So, if I choose to stay because of my children can I muster up the gumption to do what is needed to make this marriage a success rather than drudgery.

 

Or do I go and have my children raised by my arch enemy (and believe you me she WILL make herself my arch enemy, albeit for a pretty good reason) and as you pointed out, living in another town, and quite possibly being fathered by another man.

This is what I don't get. You allow her to force you into staying M because otherwise she will make D a living hell for you. Stay and be unhappy or leave and be unhappy. Make your choice.

 

How pathetic does that make everybody? Her counselor needs to help her see this because in the long run it only hurts EVERYBODY.

[tbone]

I must have missed your posts on addiction, are they in this thread? What kind of addiction do you have?

 

To the AP. Communicated everyday for 7 months extensively and now going cold turkey is rough.

[scatterd]

shes hurt understandable but she might want to talk after she is calm her dreams are shattered sometimes after you talk and build love it turns out better.she has a right to feel betrayed this is the father of her children.we were not brought up to know what to do in this circumstance we are human.T bone try to understand her maybe if you let your guard down to her you can fall in love again Just try.if you dont and the reality of it sets in you could have regrets latter.Right now you have a wall up it will take work but anything good is worth the work.

[whichwayisup]

Glad to hear that everything is out on the table. Kudos to you for opening up and telling her the truth.

 

Just one thing, if you cave and see/talk to the OW, don't lie about it. Come clean.. And, as much as it may hurt your wife, tell her WHY you caved. (that is, if you break NC) I just hope the OW respects your wishes and doesn't contact you. With that said, respect the NC so you 1)Won't hurt your wife. 2)Hurt your OW. 3)Hurt yourself.

 

Your wife's world has been turned upside down, she's broken inside. You confirmed her worst fears..

 

Her reaction is normal but the physical reaction wasn't. It was so wrong of her to attack you like that. It's behaviour that has to stop NOW. As angry as she is, she has no right to touch you. If this situation was reversed, she would have called the Cops on you - So don't put up with that from her.

 

Call your counsellor, make an appt and go tomorrow, if possible. This guy should be talking to you daily, and seeing you both afew times a week.

 

Excitement, ego boost, low self-esteem, escape, a way to try to get out w/out really "manning up", compatability issues with wife (she's active LDS, I am a Gentile through and through)....those all proabably played a role

As for your OW.....All the more reason to stay away from her. If you truly were "inlove" with your OW, none of this would be said. You are addicted to how she made you feel, fed your ego etc.. yes, you may care about her, be very attached to her, emotionally and sexually, but it sounds like you're not inlove with her.

 

Take things one day at a time and journal every thought and feeling you have on paper. It'll help clear your mind.

[White Flower]

I don't know that I would ever describe it as tumultous up to this point. Just a pan of vegetable lasagna.

 

And I certainly play a significant roll in why I have no feelings for the W. I killed what little was left during the A.

I think I'm going to argue this point with you as you have stated it many times. I don't think you killed feelings for your W with the A. I think either a) your wife killed your feelings for her by differences and her behavior or b) feelings just died on their own. Either way you were already unhappy and feelings had to be dead before your A started. People don't usually just have affairs when there is still a glimmer of hope (residing feelings) for the M. I just don't believe you had any feelings left for the W when your A started.

 

And for what it's worth I believe the guilt you feel is stronger for your children than for your W.

[tbone]

ok - so let me ask you this... what did your OW provide for you that you didn't receive from your W? and was that the initial attraction and what continues to keep you on the fence about your M?

 

IF we can determine what she provided - we may be able to determine what was missing in your relationship with your W and a possible plan.

 

IF you do decide that you want to rebuild that part of your marriage for the future and the possibility of being happy with your W again.

 

if not - then you may determine that your W could never possibly give you fulfillment in a critical part of the relationship... depends on what you deem is missing - and what is deemed possible for growth within the M.

 

of course - we haven't had the luxury of any communication with your W - so this is just to determine what may have been missing to make you go looking for understanding outside the M.

 

Its new, exciting, and free from much responsibility. That's the textbook answer for A's and those are true. I don't see her when her kids are there, I see her when they are with their father. We don't see each other often and its probably somewhat true that "familiarity breeds contempt". So its new and exciting everytime. We haven't had that time to find each other's faults and pet peeves. We see each other at our very best.

 

 

Aside from that, we share a more common background and shared value system to some degree. We grew up in the same town, same schools, etc. My wife is a practicing Mormon. I am not. The OW and I share common interests in terms of social activities, and entertainment that I don't with my wife. My wife is very much a homebody and not into sports much at all.

 

 

Physical attraction is something I feel strongly for the OW as well. Sex is more uninhibited, so I can't discount that part of the relationship either. Its very intense and quite different.

[whichwayisup]

Or option C - He's buried all the feelings. For various reasons, and the ones you said above. Time will tell..

 

Anyway, for your kids sake you owe your marriage and a chance to reconnect with your wife. Atleast if you try and a year from now nothing changes, then you can part knowing that you DID give it your best without the OW in the picture.

[White Flower]

To the AP. Communicated everyday for 7 months extensively and now going cold turkey is rough.

Hmm, I don't know if I believe you were truly addicted but I might believe you were in love. There is a difference. No wonder you can minimize your feelings for the OW; it is easy to do as long as you believe she was 'an addiction'.

 

I thought maybe you had a sex addiction. That is a whole nother ball game.

[whichwayisup]

So its new and exciting everytime. We haven't had that time to find each other's faults and pet peeves. We see each other at our very best.

And that's why affairs can last so long.

[tbone]

Hmm, I don't know if I believe you were truly addicted but I might believe you were in love. There is a difference. No wonder you can minimize your feelings for the OW; it is easy to do as long as you believe she was 'an addiction'.

 

I thought maybe you had a sex addiction. That is a whole nother ball game.

 

Yes, I believe I love her.

[White Flower]

Its new, exciting, and free from much responsibility. That's the textbook answer for A's and those are true. I don't see her when her kids are there, I see her when they are with their father. We don't see each other often and its probably somewhat true that "familiarity breeds contempt". So its new and exciting everytime. We haven't had that time to find each other's faults and pet peeves. We see each other at our very best.

 

 

Aside from that, we share a more common background and shared value system to some degree. We grew up in the same town, same schools, etc. My wife is a practicing Mormon. I am not. The OW and I share common interests in terms of social activities, and entertainment that I don't with my wife. My wife is very much a homebody and not into sports much at all.

 

 

Physical attraction is something I feel strongly for the OW as well. Sex is more uninhibited, so I can't discount that part of the relationship either. Its very intense and quite different.

I'm not going to focus on the intense part as anyone can have that in an A. But the 'quite different' statement interests me. Is it that you might have true intimacy with her? A safe place where you can share your deepest thoughts, worst fears, and be totally yourself with her? If so, that does not breed addiction, but intimacy which then leads to true love. Sometimes we feel this but do not recognize the definitions or the reality of it. I'd hate for you to lose a good thing and pine for it the rest of your life if you work on what you seem to already believe is a dead end road.

[tbone]

Is it that you might have true intimacy with her? A safe place where you can share your deepest thoughts, worst fears, and be totally yourself with her?

 

BINGO!! You hit the nail on the head!

 

Intimacy and being myself. Something I've not had with the W, and do share with the OW.

[whichwayisup]

I'd hate for you to lose a good thing and pine for it the rest of your life if you work on what you seem to already believe is a dead end road

Seems he's already made the decision to atleast try to fix things with his wife, do MC with her. To try to push him in the direction of the OW right now isn't really fair. To anyone.

 

But, if he truly feels that way, the M is a dead end, he might as well file for D now and work out custody with his wife through lawyers.

[White Flower]

BINGO!! You hit the nail on the head!

 

Intimacy and being myself. Something I've not had with the W, and do share with the OW.

Then you have your answer. If you have this you can get over any and all pet peeves my dear friend.

 

Now, how can you put a plan into motion that is a healing one for all involved?

 

I am so proud of you for admitting the A. You did what you felt was right at the time because you have a conscience, even if that meant losing everything. That took a lot of guts. But can you really ever get that deep intimacy with your W? How much damage will you do to her, yourself, and your OW in the process of trying?

 

Remember, no matter what you do your children will always love and respect their father for trying. You did that today and you can always defend that.

[White Flower]

Seems he's already made the decision to atleast try to fix things with his wife, do MC with her. To try to push him in the direction of the OW right now isn't really fair. To anyone.

 

But, if he truly feels that way, the M is a dead end, he might as well file for D now and work out custody with his wife through lawyers.

Please don't misunderstand my intentions. I am not pushing him in the direction of the OW; I am asking him to define what he is hiding behind the facade of doing what 'is right' for the kids and everybody esle but himself. This is for tbone and not his OW. If he does not have that intimacy or deep love for her only he knows that.

 

Tbone's numbness is what tipped me off. I have suffered from depression and that is because I did for everybody else and not myself. Tbone needs to 'do what is right' which will ultimately lead to a very happy tbone. My guess is that means getting his W to a happy place (probably without a fake M) and to ensure his kids are not affected by her angry outbursts if he can intervene by getting his W into counseling.

 

OW or not tbone needs to do what will make him happy. When he is happy and stable he can then be a positive role model for his children.

 

I do feel bad for Mrs. tbone as she is in great pain tonight. I am glad she is surrounded by her parish and children. But I don't feel that tbone should fake any feelings for her 'for the sake of what is right'. Only tbone knows deep down what is right even if he feels guilty for being deceiptful. That part is over. He can move on now.

Edited March 14, 2010 by White Flower

[whichwayisup]

If he feels he has to fake it for the next xx amount of years for his kids sake, that's wrong. But, with the help of the MC and both him and his wife trying together to capture something, maybe something NEW, start a new leaf together, their marriage could work..Because they want it to work. if he isn't willing to put in the effort and is only doing it to be with his kids, then it's pointless.

 

Sorry WF, I didn't mean to accuse you of pushing him in that direction, just he is quite rocky right now and who knows if reading some of what you've said could help him choose to break NC while his wife is away..

[White Flower]

If he feels he has to fake it for the next xx amount of years for his kids sake, that's wrong. But, with the help of the MC and both him and his wife trying together to capture something, maybe something NEW, start a new leaf together, their marriage could work..Because they want it to work. if he isn't willing to put in the effort and is only doing it to be with his kids, then it's pointless.

 

Sorry WF, I didn't mean to accuse you of pushing him in that direction, just he is quite rocky right now and who knows if reading some of what you've said could help him choose to break NC while his wife is away..

I get what you mean totally. I am always on the side of true love and that includes MP. If there is no point then there is no point. I have a hard time believing love can exist without intimacy; therefore, I have a hard time believing in life if there is no love. I know men tend to do the dutiful thing and often miss out on something deeper and more meaningful in the process. I hope tbone doesn't miss out.

 

I kind of hope he doesn't break NC right now because I don't want his OW to have false hope only to be shattered again in the future. I hope tbone emerges from this as a whole man who knows what he wants and goes after it once all the work is done.

[2sunny]

BINGO!! You hit the nail on the head!

 

Intimacy and being myself. Something I've not had with the W, and do share with the OW.

 

no - not yet TBone... you have the delusion that you may have potential intimacy with the OW. seeing that you haven't yet shared the real relationship yet - we shall call it infatuation at this point.

 

what you may actually experience with the relationship when it's no longer a secret and you see her constantly (faults and all) will be completely different after a great amount of time passes and things settle into a comfortable routine.

 

THEN and only then - would you truly understand if it's true intimacy or not.

 

do not be delusional by what you perceive you have with her - it may be totally different than the reality. on the other hand - the reality may be better than you imagined as well - depending on how accurate you have been about allowing your mind to process the "true" woman she presents to you.

 

the revelation of what you have perceived is what is getting in the way.

[White Flower]

Then you have your answer. If you have this (true intimacy) you can get over any and all pet peeves my dear friend.

 

Only you know what was real and what was perceived. Trust your gut.

[2sunny]

Only you know what was real and what was perceived. Trust your gut.

 

his truth will be found when his head, his heart and his gut are all aligned. this is called good balance.

[tbone]

The W texted my dad this morning and said she is going to ask me to move out for "a few days" when she gets back today.

 

I plan on being out before she even gets here. I started a cursory search for living quarters last night. I plan to be gone for more than just a few days. She has things she needs to sort out, and so do I.

 

Honestly how I feel right now is empowered. So much lying to her and myself for so long and now that the truth is out I just don't fear her anymore. Its a strange feeling. I know what I did was flat out WRONG, and there was NO JUSTIFICATION for it. She deserved much, much better. But I just feel like I can tell the truth now and that feels satisfying to me. And the truth is right now I don't want to be under the same roof as her for awhile at least.

[BB07]

Not being under the same roof would probably be best for all concerned right now. She needs to deal with her anger, hopefully come to some kind of common sense approach to it that isn't physically dangerous to you nor emotionally damaging to your children.

 

You need that time to try to get your head clear and I hope you don't contact the OW as this will just confuse you more and cause her pain as there isn't any way that you can be clear in your mind about what you truly want at this point.

 

In a lot of ways you have created a no win situation but you are going to have to make the best out of it that you can. Time.......and hopefully some IC is going to help you find the clarity that you need. Good luck!

[PhoenixRise]

I think I'm going to argue this point with you as you have stated it many times. I don't think you killed feelings for your W with the A. I think either a) your wife killed your feelings for her by differences and her behavior or b) feelings just died on their own. Either way you were already unhappy and feelings had to be dead before your A started. People don't usually just have affairs when there is still a glimmer of hope (residing feelings) for the M. I just don't believe you had any feelings left for the W when your A started.

 

And for what it's worth I believe the guilt you feel is stronger for your children than for your W .

 

 

I think it is true that people who have exit affair are done with the marriage, I don't this is true for all affairs though.

 

I do agree that at the moment Tbone is staying because of he feelings for his kids and in spite of his feelings for his W.

[PhoenixRise]

 

I kind of hope he doesn't break NC right now because I don't want his OW to have false hope only to be shattered again in the future. I hope tbone emerges from this as a whole man who knows what he wants and goes after it once all the work is done.

 

 

I completely agree with this. I think if Tbone will stay in IC and will continue to do the internal work he will continue on his way to becoming this kind of man.

 

Tbone

 

You never did answer my question regarding IC. Do you have another individual session set up with your counselor?

[PhoenixRise]

I see that you have decided to move out for a few days. I think this is an excellent plan for all concerned.

 

You need time to truly figure out what you want.

 

Your wife needs time to process everything and to figure out what SHE wants.

 

 

I will say again, I think It would be a bad idea to contact OW, unless you decide to end the marriage and take action in that direction. I know your phone is gone, but I do hope you do have lots of support from family and friends.