indecisive coward

[White Flower]

IF you and your OW are meant to be together, somehow you two will find eachother again..But, time apart, while you sort yourself out, take time to work through all the stuff you need to work at.. If she is there at the end (that is IF you do divorce) then look at it as a bonus. If not, then you're going to be OK alone. It's better in the long run to 'find' her again when you're truly available and out of the affair dynamtic. To run to her now is unhealthy.. You two will have trust issues with one another..

 

Whatever the outcome is in the future, Tbone you will be alright. You've taken control of your life, as much as it's hurt your wife, the truth is out there and hopefully in time, things will get easier.

 

Even if you do divorce, you and your wife can co-parent together, be on OK terms for the kids sake.. marriage counselling will help along the way.

I agree wholeheartedly tbone.

 

I am so proud of you for identifying your feelings and acting on them instead of chosing to fake it the rest of your life.

[NoIDidn't]

Great post, FO. I don't condone violence either, but I can see why she resorted to it. Its the indifference and uncaring attitude she's being shown by tbone. Its like she's trying to make him show her something, but he won't even display anger.

 

I can't say just up and divorce her though. I read in Divorce Busting that you never know what marriages have life left in them just based on what is said. You never know the hope left in both. But I am also not blindly saying to save the marriage. This separation is good for clearing the mind and getting counseling to meet that end.

[PhoenixRise]

Fooled Once

 

Excellent post.

 

I don't condone the violence. But I do understand why she is acting out.

[White Flower]

You hit this woman with news that rocked her world, devestated her and the marriage she thought she had is gone. Her entire universe just tilted.

True.

 

While I don't condone violence at all, I guess I am not outraged at her behavior because you totally shattered her.

I am still outraged but I do understand her anger. She needs to try (at least) to control the severity of it.

She has felt your indifference, but now she not only sees how little you care about her, how much you have lied to her but she also sees no remorse for what you have done and you have cut her to the core of her being and her womanhood.

 

The woman she thought she was, the wife she thought she was is gone. The marriage she thought she had (albeit with rough spots) is gone. Her everything is gone.

 

Not only have you been emotionally cruel to her, you slept with another woman and gave your heart to another woman.

 

You have known about all of your deeds for months -- and you have had time to flip flop on what you want, etc. She was slapped with it and then had to attend a church function with her kids. She hasn't had 10 minutes alone to digest it all ---- yet she seems to be expected to just accept it, deal with it and not be angry

I'm not sure he is expecting her to just accept it. He has been very apologetic.

 

Of course she is acting out -- who wouldn't when their world comes crashing down on them?

 

You have chosen to go back and forth for months/weeks -- lying, sneaking around, being mean to her.

Mean? How was he directly mean to her?

For heaven's sake - divorce her. You have stated repeatedly you don't love her, you killed the love you felt for her (which I am not sure you even felt love for her because you really don't talk about anything besides what a bad wife she is).

For the record, he never said she was a bad wife. He only indicated what he found to be intolerable for him as her H which he (or any MM) is allowed to do.

You don't want her. You don't love her. You don't even really like her. So how do you expect to rebuild a marriage?

 

Your children deserve parents who are role models. Your children deserve to be kids, to not be dragged into this. Your children deserve love and commitment from their parents. You can do this from a different home.

True.

My H was a non custodial dad (his kids are now grown). While he didn't raise them or have them every day, he has a very good relationship with both of them -- and neither of them resent him or hate him for not being there every day. Heck, his Daughter was under 3 when he and his ex split. Yet today, she is still daddy's girl and have developed a very good relationship.

 

You can do that to. But you have got to make a frickin decision on whether to stay married to their mom or not. If you cannot love her, if you cannot be truthful with her, if you cannot be faithful to her, if you cannot even like her - then DON'T play this game of "I owe it to my kids to make the marriage work". That's crap and just another cop out..

Agreed. (But he has come clean and been truthful with her let's not forget).

You and your wife, IMHO, need to sit down and have a conversation. You need to be honest with her about your intentions. Also remember, you have had plenty of time to make a decision, yet this news was dropped on her 24 hours ago that the man she married, the man she loves, the man she planned to spend her life with is NOT the man she thinks she thought he was.

 

Give her time to get her bearings straight - to make a decision for HERSELF. I am sure in the coming days, she is going to continue to have highs and lows with her emotions, and that is completely understandable.

 

While you get to run off, she has to continue to parent and maintain the home for the kids. She isn't afforded the same 'luxury' as you to go off and not have to be responsible - she has lunches to make, dinner to make, laundry to do, homework to review, toys to pick up, etc. When does she get a break to deal with her world crashing down?

 

I would make 1 suggestion - go get your kids and give her a break. Go spend time with them (away from the house) so your wife can have a break down if she needs to.

 

And I agree with Stamp - quit waiting for everyone else to make a decision for you. If you can't 100% commit to give your wife and your marriage EVERYTHING - then end the marriage.

All true and good points. I just wanted to stick up for tbone where a couple of his good deeds went unnoticed during this heartfelt attempt to stand up for the BW. I understand the neccessity of it but it bothered me that tbone wasn't recognized for feeling her pain as well. I believe he does.

[NoIDidn't]

While you get to run off, she has to continue to parent and maintain the home for the kids. She isn't afforded the same 'luxury' as you to go off and not have to be responsible - she has lunches to make, dinner to make, laundry to do, homework to review, toys to pick up, etc. When does she get a break to deal with her world crashing down?

 

I would make 1 suggestion - go get your kids and give her a break. Go spend time with them (away from the house) so your wife can have a break down if she needs to.

 

I thought this bore re-posting.

 

It seems, from what's been posted not from what's actually happening, that you are sitting back, tbone, and still letting her be the one that actually does things for you and the family.

 

Its not fair to drop this bomb on her and leave her with the kids, under the guise that she's beating you up and mistreating you. And its not a fair expectation to say that there are others she can drop the kids with for the same reason. They are your kids, too. And if you are making the argument that you might stay for them, you need to make time for them instead of waiting for them to be brought to wherever you are.

 

This will go along way with the kids and should you move towards a divorce. Its hard to ask for custody of kids that have to be brought to you just for visits. I'm not cynically suggesting to be more active with your kids for court manipulation (they would see right through it most of the time anyway), but because it will be brought up in court should you attempt to get more than joint physical custody.

[PhoenixRise]

I think what upset her was the fact that I am not able to provide her the comfort that she needs after I hurt her so badly. Instead I have become rather callous, so that's understandable on her part. I told her that I felt empowered for the first time in 9 years of marriage to be myself and to be honest with her and no longer in fear. That set her off.

 

. Mean? How was he directly mean to her?

 

For the record, he never said she was a bad wife.

 

All true and good points. I just wanted to stick up for tbone where a couple of his good deeds went unnoticed during this heartfelt attempt to stand up for the BW. I understand the neccessity of it but it bothered me that tbone wasn't recognized for feeling her pain as well. I believe he does.

 

 

Tbone may be expressing some understanding of his wife's feeling here on the LS forum, but he has admittedly been callous of her feelings in person. I think his admitted callousness is why people are so understanding of the wife's feelings even if her actions can not be condoned.

 

It IS possible to show empathy for pain you caused and at the same time be honest in your overall feelings. It seems that Tbone is not doing this.

 

He has never said that his wife is a bad wife, in fact I have seen him actually say she has good intentions. but he has dropped specific incidents, without context into his discourse about her that paint her in a very negative light.

A specifically bright spotlight shined on the W's bad behavior while staying pretty general about his own contributions to the marital discord.

 

IMO MM do this a lot....drop a negative story about the wife to people/OW, then defend the wife when people/OW react to the story as one would expect. THEN, in terms of the affair triangle, presto, you have an OW in the forum posting that MM never said a negative word about the W. MM gets to look very good by comparison and noble for not badmouthing the wife at the same time.

 

Not saying that Tbone or any MM is plotting move for move like Machiavelli but it seems that this dynamic happens in many cases.

[White Flower]

Tbone may be expressing some understanding of his wife's feeling here on the LS forum, but he has admittedly been callous of her feelings in person. I think his admitted callousness is why people are so understanding of the wife's feelings even if her actions can not be condoned.

 

It IS possible to show empathy for pain you caused and at the same time be honest in your overall feelings. It seems that Tbone is not doing this.

 

He has never said that his wife is a bad wife, in fact I have seen him actually say she has good intentions. but he has dropped specific incidents, without context into his discourse about her that paint her in a very negative light.

A specifically bright spotlight shined on the W's bad behavior while staying pretty general about his own contributions to the marital discord.

 

IMO MM do this a lot....drop a negative story about the wife to people/OW, then defend the wife when people/OW react to the story as one would expect. THEN, in terms of the affair triangle, presto, you have an OW in the forum posting that MM never said a negative word about the W. MM gets to look very good by comparison and noble for not badmouthing the wife at the same time.

 

Not saying that Tbone or any MM is plotting move for move like Machiavelli but it seems that this dynamic happens in many cases.

I think we pretty much agree actually. You are right, he did say he was callous toward her but I think that was understandable considering he knows her and figured that she would become physical in her anger. I tended to harden myself whenever my exH entered the room because I knew I had to be defensive around him.

 

You are also right that empathy should be shown, I couldn't agree more.

 

Did I say he 'never said' a bad word about his W? I'll have to look for that because I did not intend to. I just wanted to point out that he has actually stood up for her a number of times when he was accused of not doing so.

 

He knew the A was wrong, he confessed it, and is trying to do the right thing. He was brave in confessing to her and should be recognized for doing so when so many don't. I almost feel like damned if you do and damned if you don't is happening on this thread but I could be wrong.

[PhoenixRise]

I think we pretty much agree actually. You are right, he did say he was callous toward her but I think that was understandable considering he knows her and figured that she would become physical in her anger. I tended to harden myself whenever my exH entered the room because I knew I had to be defensive around him.

 

You are also right that empathy should be shown, I couldn't agree more.

 

Did I say he 'never said' a bad word about his W? I'll have to look for that because I did not intend to. I just wanted to point out that he has actually stood up for her a number of times when he was accused of not doing so.

 

I never meant to imply that you specifically made the statement that Tbone or any MM "never said" a bad word about the wife. It is a statement that I see often on the OW forum. Sorry for any confusion.

 

He knew the A was wrong, he confessed it, and is trying to do the right thing. He was brave in confessing to her and should be recognized for doing so when so many don't. I almost feel like damned if you do and damned if you don't is happening on this thread but I could be wrong.

 

I agree with you that he did the right thing in confessing and I agree with you that most WS don't confess. I recognized that and posted as such.

 

I hope he continues to do the right thing by making a decision and continuing to be honest in all aspects of his life.

 

As for his wife, I can see how it would be pretty appalling to have your H say he has/is having an affair, but he is NOT asking for a divorce, and he is NOT trying to reconcile either. On top of this you are a SAHM with young children. Her life must feel like hell right now.

 

I don't see it as damned if you do, damned if you don't. I see it as you did the right thing, now you have to keep doing the right thing.

[NoIDidn't]

As for his wife, I can see how it would be pretty appalling to have your H say he has/is having an affair, but he is NOT asking for a divorce, and he is NOT trying to reconcile either. On top of this you are a SAHM with young children. Her life must feel like hell right now.

 

I was in this position somewhat when d-day hit. A SAHM with three very young children (I think my oldest was four). It truly rocks your world to think of all that it implies.

 

And the fact that he basically left without facing her, or even discussing what he was going to do with the kids. This is problematic for me, reasons I will have to explain when I have more time.

 

I find it interesting that tbone feels empowered to leave before she asked him to. Was this affair striking out at "mommy"?

 

There is so much in his actions that is telling a very different story from the one I feel he wants us to believe, IMO. And I don't mean this as a negative judgment of him, just an observation that I don't even think he himself is aware of.

[White Flower]

I agree with you that he did the right thing in confessing and I agree with you that most WS don't confess. I recognized that and posted as such.

 

I hope he continues to do the right thing by making a decision and continuing to be honest in all aspects of his life.

 

As for his wife, I can see how it would be pretty appalling to have your H say he has/is having an affair, but he is NOT asking for a divorce, and he is NOT trying to reconcile either. On top of this you are a SAHM with young children. Her life must feel like hell right now.

 

I don't see it as damned if you do, damned if you don't. I see it as you did the right thing, now you have to keep doing the right thing.

Very good point. I hope he does right by all including himself.

 

I also thought it was a good idea that someone posted about tbone taking the kids off of his wife's hands for a while so she can rest, cry, see a counselor or member of her church, or whatever she needs to clear her head. Leaving might be a good idea but she still needs help with the kids.

[ladydesigner]

Wow tbone you had a rough weekend. While I agree with other posters that your wife's behavior is wrong, I still can understand. When I became a BS I actually threw a trash can at my husband, thank god the kids were not there at the time, but I remember those emotions being overwhelming. I since had a revenge A that has been over for quite some time. Now my H and I are getting along once again and seem to be on the right track, but it has taken years and both of us having A's, a pretty sorry case for a M but we are reconciling. I have not disclosed my A because I believe our M would not survive it and I feel we are making progress.

 

I hope your situation starts to improve and that you begin to find some peace of mind on your own without your W or your OW, but for yourself.

[Dexter Morgan]

She now has left for the weekend. I know she thinks I am going to see the other woman.

 

she leaves for the weekend after finding out about your affair, thinks you may go see the OW as well.

 

hmmm, why do I smell payback in the air? I think she may be getting ready to get herself some satisfaction as well.

[stampdaddy]

she leaves for the weekend after finding out about your affair, thinks you may go see the OW as well.

 

hmmm, why do I smell payback in the air? I think she may be getting ready to get herself some satisfaction as well.

 

what's wrong with you???

[bittersweet memories]

You hit this woman with news that rocked her world, devestated her and the marriage she thought she had is gone. Her entire universe just tilted.

 

While I don't condone violence at all, I guess I am not outraged at her behavior because you totally shattered her.

 

She has felt your indifference, but now she not only sees how little you care about her, how much you have lied to her but she also sees no remorse for what you have done and you have cut her to the core of her being and her womanhood.

 

The woman she thought she was, the wife she thought she was is gone. The marriage she thought she had (albeit with rough spots) is gone. Her everything is gone.

 

Not only have you been emotionally cruel to her, you slept with another woman and gave your heart to another woman.

 

You have known about all of your deeds for months -- and you have had time to flip flop on what you want, etc. She was slapped with it and then had to attend a church function with her kids. She hasn't had 10 minutes alone to digest it all ---- yet she seems to be expected to just accept it, deal with it and not be angry

 

Of course she is acting out -- who wouldn't when their world comes crashing down on them?

 

You have chosen to go back and forth for months/weeks -- lying, sneaking around, being mean to her.

 

For heaven's sake - divorce her. You have stated repeatedly you don't love her, you killed the love you felt for her (which I am not sure you even felt love for her because you really don't talk about anything besides what a bad wife she is).

 

You don't want her. You don't love her. You don't even really like her. So how do you expect to rebuild a marriage?

 

Your children deserve parents who are role models. Your children deserve to be kids, to not be dragged into this. Your children deserve love and commitment from their parents. You can do this from a different home. My H was a non custodial dad (his kids are now grown). While he didn't raise them or have them every day, he has a very good relationship with both of them -- and neither of them resent him or hate him for not being there every day. Heck, his Daughter was under 3 when he and his ex split. Yet today, she is still daddy's girl and have developed a very good relationship.

 

You can do that to. But you have got to make a frickin decision on whether to stay married to their mom or not. If you cannot love her, if you cannot be truthful with her, if you cannot be faithful to her, if you cannot even like her - then DON'T play this game of "I owe it to my kids to make the marriage work". That's crap and just another cop out.

 

You and your wife, IMHO, need to sit down and have a conversation. You need to be honest with her about your intentions. Also remember, you have had plenty of time to make a decision, yet this news was dropped on her 24 hours ago that the man she married, the man she loves, the man she planned to spend her life with is NOT the man she thinks she thought he was.

 

Give her time to get her bearings straight - to make a decision for HERSELF. I am sure in the coming days, she is going to continue to have highs and lows with her emotions, and that is completely understandable.

 

While you get to run off, she has to continue to parent and maintain the home for the kids. She isn't afforded the same 'luxury' as you to go off and not have to be responsible - she has lunches to make, dinner to make, laundry to do, homework to review, toys to pick up, etc. When does she get a break to deal with her world crashing down?

 

I would make 1 suggestion - go get your kids and give her a break. Go spend time with them (away from the house) so your wife can have a break down if she needs to.

 

And I agree with Stamp - quit waiting for everyone else to make a decision for you. If you can't 100% commit to give your wife and your marriage EVERYTHING - then end the marriage.

 

Wow..Excellent Fooled Once!..You have a way with words and it is sooo helpful to many of us..Thank you for that.

[Brokenlady]

what's wrong with you???

 

b.i.t.t.e.r.

[datura_noir]

Fooled Once's advice is like chicken soup for the wayward soul....

 

When you have inner turmoil, it is usually caused by your own doing. Only you know yourself fully, and if you are not good at confronting issues with your wife, it doesn't fare well for you down the road in any R.

 

The dream woman would have to be a combination of Donna Reed, Jenna Jameson and Suze Orman to complete you.

 

It is good to look inside yourself and find out what has contributed to your life as it exists so far....

[Brokenlady]

For heaven's sake - divorce her. You have stated repeatedly you don't love her, you killed the love you felt for her (which I am not sure you even felt love for her because you really don't talk about anything besides what a bad wife she is).

 

You don't want her. You don't love her. You don't even really like her. So how do you expect to rebuild a marriage?

 

Your children deserve parents who are role models. Your children deserve to be kids, to not be dragged into this. Your children deserve love and commitment from their parents. You can do this from a different home.

You can do that to. But you have got to make a frickin decision on whether to stay married to their mom or not. If you cannot love her, if you cannot be truthful with her, if you cannot be faithful to her, if you cannot even like her - then DON'T play this game of "I owe it to my kids to make the marriage work". That's crap and just another cop out.

 

 

And I agree with Stamp - quit waiting for everyone else to make a decision for you. If you can't 100% commit to give your wife and your marriage EVERYTHING - then end the marriage.

 

Truly, not making a decision and screwing with her head is crueler than the affair itself. Make a decision. But I have to say, the cruelest thing ever is this idea that you'd stick around just for the kids and pretend to love her. That's beyond selfish...it's sociopathic. This whole thread is starting to hit way too close to home, I'm actually feeling nauseous, so I'm going to bow out now.

[fooled once]

Mean? How was he directly mean to her?

WF - by 'mean', I meant how callous he has been to her, how he treated her

from his first post

I completely detached from spouse. I have been sleeping separately, no sex, no nothing. Gaslighting, the whole nine yards.

also from page 2

have compounded the issue with a slew of lies and the inability to come clean for the past 6 months why my spouse has had to deal with the uncertainty.[/QUOTE]

 

from page 5

 

What I am doing is cruel and unfair to my spouse. No denying it.

For the record, he never said she was a bad wife. He only indicated what he found to be intolerable for him as her H which he (or any MM) is allowed to do.

 

Agreed. (But he has come clean and been truthful with her let's not forget).

Yes, but he, IMHO, only has agreed to 'come clean and be truthful' because he himself couldn't handle the stress any longer and he knew his wife knew SOMETHING was going on.

 

All true and good points. I just wanted to stick up for tbone where a couple of his good deeds went unnoticed during this heartfelt attempt to stand up for the BW. I understand the neccessity of it but it bothered me that tbone wasn't recognized for feeling her pain as well. I believe he does.

Did I say he 'never said' a bad word about his W?

Yes, you did Just pulling your chain!

 

While it is great he finally came clean, that doesn't erase what he has done to his wife. So good for him for finally stopping the lies and gaslighting her, but .....

[Samantha0905]

F

 

The dream woman would have to be a combination of Donna Reed, Jenna Jameson and Suze Orman to complete you.

 

 

:lmao:

[White Flower]

WF - by 'mean', I meant how callous he has been to her, how he treated her

from his first post

also from page 2

 

have compounded the issue with a slew of lies and the inability to come clean for the past 6 months why my spouse has had to deal with the uncertainty.[/QUOTE]

 

from page 5

 

Yes, but he, IMHO, only has agreed to 'come clean and be truthful' because he himself couldn't handle the stress any longer and he knew his wife knew SOMETHING was going on.

 

Yes, you did Just pulling your chain!

 

While it is great he finally came clean, that doesn't erase what he has done to his wife. So good for him for finally stopping the lies and gaslighting her, but .....

Whew, good, then we agree.

[stampdaddy]

[COLOR=#800080]

[/COLOR]

 

 

where art thou, Tbone......?

Edited March 16, 2010 by stampdaddy

[Dexter Morgan]

b.i.t.t.e.r.

 

awwww.......*sniff*

[Dexter Morgan]

what's wrong with you???

 

with a little jest mixed in that comment, it was a serious thought.

 

when someone learns that their spouse has been unfaithful, the LAST thing they want to do is let them out of their sight. So here she is leaving him for the weekend knowing full well he will probably run to his OW.

 

so the question is why? why is she leaving knowing this?

 

either she doesn't care....is looking to get her own satisfaction.....why?

[White Flower]

Or maybe she's afraid she'll scratch his eyes out until she cools down? There is a myriad of possibilities, not just one possible conclusion.

[stampdaddy]

TBONE, TBONE, where is my sweet TBONE??

 

It's dinner time, and I would like a Tbone..

 

I saw a car wreck today in an intersection, it was a Tbone.

 

I got out a marker, scribbled the 20th letter of the alphabet on my weiner, hence, a "T" Bone

 

I, you get it......