indecisive coward

[stampdaddy]

To a large extent its as simple as I know what is going to happen to the relationship between me, as the father, and my children if I choose to leave.

 

So, if I choose to stay because of my children can I muster up the gumption to do what is needed to make this marriage a success rather than drudgery.

 

Or do I go and have my children raised by my arch enemy (and believe you me she WILL make herself my arch enemy, albeit for a pretty good reason) and as you pointed out, living in another town, and quite possibly being fathered by another man.

 

WHAT?!?!?!?!?

 

what does that mean???

 

First of all, you don't EVER "stay because of the children"!! Do you hear me???? That is the LAST thing you do. You STAY because you and your wife WANT and CAN make a MARRIAGE...

 

Dude, my friend, sweetums.... You need to get a grip. How about you get off this website, DO NOT call, mail, email, write, send smoke signals, Western Union, carrier pigeon, think, dote, pine, yearn, lust, need, miss, want, get horned up for your OW... Just go put in a movie and chill...

 

Watch something like "The Notebook".. No, wait. "Bridges of Madison County" NO, sorry... "An Affair To Remember",, Dammit, no not that either...

 

OK, I just looked, "Jack Ass 2" is on the Comedy Channel in an hour.. watch that... Forget everything, EVERYTHING for just tonight.. Start a NEW DAY, as a HUSBAND, as a FATHER, as a NEIGHBOR, as a CHURCH going man and see where the day takes you

[tbone]

WHAT?!?!?!?!?

 

what does that mean???

 

First of all, you don't EVER "stay because of the children"!! Do you hear me???? That is the LAST thing you do. You STAY because you and your wife WANT and CAN make a MARRIAGE...

 

Dude, my friend, sweetums.... You need to get a grip. How about you get off this website, DO NOT call, mail, email, write, send smoke signals, Western Union, carrier pigeon, think, dote, pine, yearn, lust, need, miss, want, get horned up for your OW... Just go put in a movie and chill...

 

Watch something like "The Notebook".. No, wait. "Bridges of Madison County" NO, sorry... "An Affair To Remember",, Dammit, no not that either...

 

OK, I just looked, "Jack Ass 2" is on the Comedy Channel in an hour.. watch that... Forget everything, EVERYTHING for just tonight.. Start a NEW DAY, as a HUSBAND, as a FATHER, as a NEIGHBOR, as a CHURCH going man and see where the day takes you

 

Well...you asked.

 

Frankly my children ARE what what keeps me here right now. Plain and simple.

 

The questions is can I make this marriage a happy one? Can I build a marriage again upon my desire to be there for my children.

[2sunny]

To a large extent its as simple as I know what is going to happen to the relationship between me, as the father, and my children if I choose to leave.

 

So, if I choose to stay because of my children can I muster up the gumption to do what is needed to make this marriage a success rather than drudgery.

 

Or do I go and have my children raised by my arch enemy (and believe you me she WILL make herself my arch enemy, albeit for a pretty good reason) and as you pointed out, living in another town, and quite possibly being fathered by another man.

 

do not assume these things. you being capable of being a great father has no bearing on whether or not you stay married. those are two separate things.

 

kids mainly want to know that they are loved by their parents... that is possible whether or not they are with the both or not.

 

hopefully - you can both agree not to talk badly of one another to your kids. it only hurts them deeply to hear unkind words involving the parents. stay away from this at all cost and the kids should understand that their relationship with you is a separate entity.

 

it is important to point out that even if you don't stay married - that you can display respect and loving behavior towards their Mom. if your actions are showing this to be true then they shouldn't be unhappy whether or not the outcome.

[stampdaddy]

Well...you asked.

 

Frankly my children ARE what what keeps me here right now. Plain and simple.

 

The questions is can I make this marriage a happy one? Can I build a marriage again upon my desire to be there for my children.

 

 

Again, my friend.. TAKE THE NIGHT OFF. You do deserve it.

 

You need a week off or more honestly. Away from everybody and everything.

 

You need a "coming to Jesus"

 

You need to FIND YOURSELF, cause pal, you are SOOOOO lost.

 

No offense, but God, if you could put yourself 6 months, 6 years away from yourself, it would be SO clear for your.. But none of us can. You are so enveloped by this right now, you need to "reboot".

 

I've got 1, maybe 2 more posts in me for you until you can "take charge"..

[2sunny]

Well...you asked.

 

Frankly my children ARE what what keeps me here right now. Plain and simple.

 

The questions is can I make this marriage a happy one? Can I build a marriage again upon my desire to be there for my children.

 

you can at least try! show actions that are loving, kind and respectful... look for ways to have simple fun again. this is action that says you are willing to TRY.

 

sometimes if the action is shown - consistently - then the mind follows suit. is it worth a shot at trying?

[tbone]

hopefully - you can both agree not to talk badly of one another to your kids. it only hurts them deeply to hear unkind words involving the parents. stay away from this at all cost and the kids should understand that their relationship with you is a separate entity.

 

This went out the window with her. She has consistently ignored the counselors suggestions to not demean me in front of the children (daddy doesn't want you, daddy didn't want to have you, daddy wants to leave you.... type stuff), to strike me in front of the children, and to try and argue in front of the children.

 

I know I"ve done an AWFUL thing to our family including the children. But that type of behavior won't be productive whether or not I choose to stay or go.

[2sunny]

This went out the window with her. She has consistently ignored the counselors suggestions to not demean me in front of the children (daddy doesn't want you, daddy didn't want to have you, daddy wants to leave you.... type stuff), to strike me in front of the children, and to try and argue in front of the children.

 

I know I"ve done an AWFUL thing to our family including the children. But that type of behavior won't be productive whether or not I choose to stay or go.

 

so you shut that down completely! YOU tell the children directly how YOU feel. tell her that she isn't allowed to speak for you or your feelings about anything - that right belongs only to you. then learn what healthy rules of engagement look like.

 

first rule of engagement - do not engage!

 

have a voice - this is your own - speak your truth to your wife and kids. this should never involve being accusatory or defensive when it's done well.

 

rules of engagement: (these are YOUR responses to her - or anyone else - when you are either uncomfortable or trying to set a boundary within an exchange of words). this usually will either delay your need to react or over react with a positive outcome. this gives you time to process what is happening without just reacting out of sheer anger or frustration...

 

you respond with:

 

yes

no

maybe

you may be right (notice you're not actually telling her she's right)

let me give that some consideration

thanks for telling me

i'll get back to you on that

and the ever present HMMMMMMMM

 

these will shut down a potential argument every time... stick to the list.

[tbone]

so you shut that down completely! YOU tell the children directly how YOU feel. tell her that she isn't allowed to speak for you or your feelings about anything - that right belongs only to you. then learn what healthy rules of engagement look like.

 

first rule of engagement - do not engage!

 

have a voice - this is your own - speak your truth to your wife and kids. this should never involve being accusatory or defensive when it's done well.

 

rules of engagement: (these are YOUR responses to her - or anyone else - when you are either uncomfortable or trying to set a boundary within an exchange of words). this usually will either delay your need to react or over react with a positive outcome. this gives you time to process what is happening without just reacting out of sheer anger or frustration...

 

you respond with:

 

yes

no

maybe

you may be right (notice you're not actually telling her she's right)

let me give that some consideration

thanks for telling me

i'll get back to you on that

and the ever present HMMMMMMMM

 

these will shut down a potential argument every time... stick to the list.

 

I'm familiar with those techniques, but realistically those will only exacerbate her desperation to the point she will turn physical and I'll have to leave the house (easy enough i guess).

 

She is on enough of a rampage right now it won't matter what I say in terms of what she tells the children. She is on the moral high ground and is using that position as a battering ram and feels pretty justified in doing whatever she wants, be damned with whatever I say.

 

At some point leaving the house for awhile may be a good idea.

[2sunny]

I'm familiar with those techniques, but realistically those will only exacerbate her desperation to the point she will turn physical and I'll have to leave the house (easy enough i guess).

 

She is on enough of a rampage right now it won't matter what I say in terms of what she tells the children. She is on the moral high ground and is using that position as a battering ram and feels pretty justified in doing whatever she wants, be damned with whatever I say.

 

At some point leaving the house for awhile may be a good idea.

 

alright then - find a safe and happy place to stay for a week or two while she works past her angry stage.

 

just because she wants to spew anger at you doesn't mean you need to be in the line of fire.

 

stay in contact - but use these tools to set your boundary - shutting everything down if she crosses the line. essentially, you are retraining her to be civil.

 

stay close enough that you can get together with yours kids for alone time while you stay somewhere else.

 

when she's reasonable you may be able to ask for a night out with her - being in public MAY curtain her vengeance level...

 

can you be gone when she returns tomorrow?

[stampdaddy]

hey, I am giving you an email for me for about a minute, since you cant PM, for now.. I will delete this email in 5 minutes...

 

[email protected]

 

emailme and we will connect

[tbone]

hey, I am giving you an email for me for about a minute, since you cant PM, for now.. I will delete this email in 5 minutes...

 

emailme and we will connect

 

done. check your inbox

[stampdaddy]

done. check your inbox

 

replied... others, dont email that account, as I am deleting, so thank you

[bentnotbroken]

This went out the window with her. She has consistently ignored the counselors suggestions to not demean me in front of the children (daddy doesn't want you, daddy didn't want to have you, daddy wants to leave you.... type stuff), to strike me in front of the children, and to try and argue in front of the children.

 

I know I"ve done an AWFUL thing to our family including the children. But that type of behavior won't be productive whether or not I choose to stay or go.

 

 

This behavior is wrong. She is angry, but she has to control herself. I know it is hard for her, I wanted to de-ball Mr. Messy too. Can you call the counselor?

[2sunny]

This behavior is wrong. She is angry, but she has to control herself. I know it is hard for her, I wanted to de-ball Mr. Messy too. Can you call the counselor?

 

i agree with bent. her words and actions will not help the healing that needs to happen if your relationship is to make forward movement.

 

as much as you did something wrong, it doesn't give her the right to be demeaning and physically abusive to you.

 

this is way out of bounds - set the standard and set it quick and firmly! do not allow this behavior or it will continue.

[PhoenixRise]

Tbone

 

First let me say, for what it is worth coming from an anonymous forum poster, I am really proud of you for volunteering the truth.

 

 

Now. When is your next IC session?

 

I think you need so help dealing with this reaction from your wife. Yes she is angry and devastated, justifiably so, but nothing justifies her physical violence and nothing justifies her using the children as weapons.

 

The next time you get a private moment with your children, get down on eye level with them, and very calmly and purposefully explain to them that mommy is angry at daddy right now but nothing will ever change the fact that daddy loves them very much. Do this every day for as long as necessary.

 

does your wife even want you to stay?

 

I am sorry that you feel so lonely and that you don't have anyone to call since your phone is gone but the other posters are right, do not, under any circumstance contact the OW. First, your wife WILL bust you. She will be watching you very closely. Second, you don't want to further involve OW unless you have decided to leave the marriage.

 

You have to decide for sure what you want. You won't make inroads in any direction until you do.

 

AND Tbone, from what you posted it doesn't sound like this is the first time your wife has physically attacked you, if this is true, It is not ok. Call the cops. Have her azz put in jail.

[BB07]

Tbone.........I'm sorry for the pain that all your family is going through. IMO.....and it's worth about 2 cents, but you were obviously in pain or you wouldn't have had an affair, which doesn't excuse it, but there are reasons that we do these things. You need to fix this part of you, that part that made you go outside of your marriage looking for something you needed/wanted before you make a decision about what you want. Please do make a decision......don't just let it happen, but do SOMETHING!

 

And........speaking as a former OW, do not call her tonight or EVER unless you have figured out what you want and it's her. Don't drag her into this or give her false hope.

 

Sometimes life gives us or we give ourselves some of the most painful excruciating moments that we don't think we will survive them, but we do and sooner or later, you have to feel that pain.........all alone.

[tbone]

Tbone

 

does your wife even want you to stay?

 

I am sorry that you feel so lonely and that you don't have anyone to call since your phone is gone but the other posters are right, do not, under any circumstance contact the OW. First, your wife WILL bust you. She will be watching you very closely. Second, you don't want to further involve OW unless you have decided to leave the marriage.

 

Yes, I think she wants me to stay, assuming I can do what is required. Which really is relatively reasonable considering the circumstances. BUT, its still a matter of wanting to commit to that. I just don't feel like throwing myself back into that with the commitment needed right now.

 

In terms of getting "busted", well I've been busted. That really isn't an issue for me. Either its what I want to do or not. At this point I don't see a point in doing so, as you indicated I don't want to lead her on anymore until I can make a decision as to whether or not I'm staying put.

[tbone]

You need to fix this part of you, that part that made you go outside of your marriage looking for something you needed/wanted before you make a decision about what you want. Please do make a decision......don't just let it happen, but do SOMETHING!/QUOTE]

 

I've thought a lot about that. I can't put my finger on any ONE thing that led me to make that choice.

 

Excitement, ego boost, low self-esteem, escape, a way to try to get out w/out really "manning up", compatability issues with wife (she's active LDS, I am a Gentile through and through)....those all proabably played a role

 

I do know that I had other opportunities and never considered it. This one I jumped at.

[2sunny]

 

which doesn't excuse it, but there are reasons that we do these things. You need to fix this part of you, that part that made you go outside of your marriage looking for something you needed/wanted before you make a decision about what you want. Please do make a decision......don't just let it happen, but do SOMETHING!

 

i agree - i think it is commendable that tbone has admitted to his actions and is interested in the best possible outcome., whatever that may bring.

 

i think it appears that his W is unwilling to admit that she may have contributed in any way to the demise of OP seeking affection and attention outside their marriage.

 

until she recognizes how she participated the M isn't likely to stand a chance of healing. hopefully after her anger wears down - she may be able to see what part she may have played in all this and how she can now participate if the marriage is to move forward in a positive manner. a partnership takes two... if she's continually beating you down or moving you to the sideline by degrading you in front of the kids - this will never work and will never be happy or healthy for anyone in that house.

 

tb - may i ask you - has your wife shown this more violent (physically or verbally) side in your M in the past, or is this something new to you?

[tbone]

i think it appears that his W is unwilling to admit that she may have contributed in any way to the demise of OP seeking affection and attention outside their marriage.

 

 

tb - may i ask you - has your wife shown this more violent (physically or verbally) side in your M in the past, or is this something new to you?

 

To question 1. Sometimes I ask myself, what was it she did or didn't do? She is a little controlling, often doesn't make it safe to be honest....ummmmm... Not much there. Religously we are miles apart, and it bugs me, but that isn't a big part of my life like hers. Sooooo...Its hard to put too much blame on her for being who she is.

 

Question 2. She has on occasion been mildly violent, but nothing like going after my male parts today. Or doing something like snapping a cell phone in half.

[Chingaling]

Tbone, I didn't realize earlier that your marriage had been so tumulous.

 

I will share this, in the hopes that it helps you...

 

If your marriage was bad before it is going to be worse now. You have no feelings for your W because she slowly and surely depleted anything that you may have felt for her in the beginning. Now that she is a woman scorned, your life will be H*ll no matter what you do.

 

Cut your losses and leave. Try to make a clean break. Find some happiness for yourself where you can since I am sure that your W will try to make you as miserable as she is. Judge your marriage on its own merits, and ask yourself whether it is truly worth saving.

 

Do not make the mistake of letting your guilt sway your decision and cause you to give up all chance of happiness with OW just to punish yourself.

 

Best of luck...

 

Ching

Edited March 14, 2010 by Chingaling

[tbone]

Tbone, I didn't realize earlier that your marriage had been so tumulous.

 

I will share this, in the hopes that it helps you...

 

If your marriage was bad before it is going to be worse now. You have no feelings for your W because she slowly and surely depleted anything that you may have felt for her in the beginning.

 

I don't know that I would ever describe it as tumultous up to this point. Just a pan of vegetable lasagna.

 

And I certainly play a significant roll in why I have no feelings for the W. I killed what little was left during the A.

[scatterd]

It sounds like she temporally snapped thats the worse hurt that someone could feel.talk to her hug try to feel again if you concentrate on her you might be surprised give it a chance you did the Right thing good luck TB

[2sunny]

ok - so let me ask you this... what did your OW provide for you that you didn't receive from your W? and was that the initial attraction and what continues to keep you on the fence about your M?

 

IF we can determine what she provided - we may be able to determine what was missing in your relationship with your W and a possible plan.

 

IF you do decide that you want to rebuild that part of your marriage for the future and the possibility of being happy with your W again.

 

if not - then you may determine that your W could never possibly give you fulfillment in a critical part of the relationship... depends on what you deem is missing - and what is deemed possible for growth within the M.

 

of course - we haven't had the luxury of any communication with your W - so this is just to determine what may have been missing to make you go looking for understanding outside the M.

[White Flower]

Dude, although I AM proud of you, you are starting to sound like a spineless wussie... Sorry, but WHEN ARE YOU going to start to decide WHAT YOU WANT???

 

My goodness, spin a wheel, flip a coin, throw a dart at a balloon, pin the tail on a donkey, draw straws, pick a number between 1 and 3, use a Ouija Board, a Eight Ball thingy, write to Dear Abby, whatever.. DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT

I am glad to see this posted because regardless of what is 'right' it really does matter what tbone wants.

 

I understand 'staying M for the kids sake' because I made my M last longer than it should have gone for the same reasons. I also understand the 'Y' theory that Stamp brought up but sometimes staying together for the kids sake only hurts the kids. Try to remember that side too.

 

Again, if the parents are happy the children will be happy. Sure it takes time to deal with and heal after the D but in the long run many children suffer less when their parents are truly happier.

 

Your numbness will dissipate when YOU, tbone, start putting into action what YOU want.

 

I must have missed your posts on addiction, are they in this thread? What kind of addiction do you have?