indecisive coward

[Samantha0905]

Just reading your thread for the last five pages or so and want to make some commentary on some of the things that have occurred.

 

First, good for you for telling. I think it's going to help your situation. I have not told my husband yet and found reading the account helpful. Thanks for sharing it.

 

Thats just it. I don't feel sadness. I feel almost nothing.

 

I understand her behavior right now. But quite honestly it was that type of behavior that contributed (yes I made the choices. Nobody put a gun to my head) to the gulf that was between us and my ultimate straying.

 

I'm fighting several emotions simultaneously. One is the longing for the OW. But also the fact that I don't know regardless if I want to continue the M. Part of the folly of an affair is that you can separate those two issues, but no matter how hard you try.....you can't. They play off of one another, even subconsciously.

.

 

I've had that numb feeling at times. I totally understand what you are saying. I also feel sad sometimes.

 

Not knowing whether or not you want to continue your marriage is a tough situation. I'm in the same boat and those two situations do play off one another.

 

I know a lot of people say to get the AP out of the picture completely if you want to work on your marriage. Well, firstly -- that's easier said than done. And secondly, it's rather scary to get rid of that person when you have such strong feelings for them and it's certainly compounded by the fact you're not even sure you want to continue in the marriage.

 

Dude, although I AM proud of you, you are starting to sound like a spineless wussie... Sorry, but WHEN ARE YOU going to start to decide WHAT YOU WANT???

 

My goodness, spin a wheel, flip a coin, throw a dart at a balloon, pin the tail on a donkey, draw straws, pick a number between 1 and 3, use a Ouija Board, a Eight Ball thingy, write to Dear Abby, whatever.. DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT

 

Maybe stampdaddy has a point. You can't stay in limbo forever. I personally like the Magic Eight Ball.

 

WHAT?!?!?!?!?

 

what does that mean???

 

First of all, you don't EVER "stay because of the children"!! Do you hear me???? That is the LAST thing you do. You STAY because you and your wife WANT and CAN make a MARRIAGE...

 

Dude, my friend, sweetums.... You need to get a grip. How about you get off this website, DO NOT call, mail, email, write, send smoke signals, Western Union, carrier pigeon, think, dote, pine, yearn, lust, need, miss, want, get horned up for your OW... Just go put in a movie and chill...

 

Watch something like "The Notebook".. No, wait. "Bridges of Madison County" NO, sorry... "An Affair To Remember",, Dammit, no not that either...

 

OK, I just looked, "Jack Ass 2" is on the Comedy Channel in an hour.. watch that... Forget everything, EVERYTHING for just tonight.. Start a NEW DAY, as a HUSBAND, as a FATHER, as a NEIGHBOR, as a CHURCH going man and see where the day takes you

 

I actually did watch "Bridges of Madison County" at one point. I don't know why, but it was therapeutic.

 

Yes, I think she wants me to stay, assuming I can do what is required. Which really is relatively reasonable considering the circumstances. BUT, its still a matter of wanting to commit to that. I just don't feel like throwing myself back into that with the commitment needed right now.

 

In terms of getting "busted", well I've been busted. That really isn't an issue for me. Either its what I want to do or not. At this point I don't see a point in doing so, as you indicated I don't want to lead her on anymore until I can make a decision as to whether or not I'm staying put.

 

While I was reading your posts, I kept thinking he needs to get out and get some space. I did see later on where you are about to do so. I think you are in such limbo, you may very well lose your wife completely -- and perhaps that is how it should be since you can't muster up the desire and passion to make the marriage work. I'm not knocking you at all -- I understand and feel that way myself -- but perhaps that IS your answer.

 

I don't know that I would ever describe it as tumultous up to this point. Just a pan of vegetable lasagna.

 

And I certainly play a significant roll in why I have no feelings for the W. I killed what little was left during the A.

 

I'm so with you on the vegetable lasagna remark.

 

I'm not going to focus on the intense part as anyone can have that in an A. But the 'quite different' statement interests me. Is it that you might have true intimacy with her? A safe place where you can share your deepest thoughts, worst fears, and be totally yourself with her? If so, that does not breed addiction, but intimacy which then leads to true love. Sometimes we feel this but do not recognize the definitions or the reality of it. I'd hate for you to lose a good thing and pine for it the rest of your life if you work on what you seem to already believe is a dead end road.

 

I agree with this point -- and don't agree also. I agree because it's what my heart says and how I feel about my XAP. I don't agree because realistically the stats are so against those feelings actually panning out to be what we think they are while in an affair relationship. I think it's real, but I know the odds are way against it actually being that and working out long term.

 

Basically, I think when a person is in a position like the one tbone is in -- they do not really know what they want long term.

 

BINGO!! You hit the nail on the head!

 

Intimacy and being myself. Something I've not had with the W, and do share with the OW.

 

I'm right there with you.

 

The W texted my dad this morning and said she is going to ask me to move out for "a few days" when she gets back today.

 

I plan on being out before she even gets here. I started a cursory search for living quarters last night. I plan to be gone for more than just a few days. She has things she needs to sort out, and so do I.

 

Honestly how I feel right now is empowered. So much lying to her and myself for so long and now that the truth is out I just don't fear her anymore. Its a strange feeling. I know what I did was flat out WRONG, and there was NO JUSTIFICATION for it. She deserved much, much better. But I just feel like I can tell the truth now and that feels satisfying to me. And the truth is right now I don't want to be under the same roof as her for awhile at least.

 

I also know what that empowered feeling is like. When I moved into my apartment, I had the same thing.

 

You know -- right now tbone, I think you are doing the right thing. You've spilled your guts, admitted the affair and that had to be a relief despite the consequences. I know there are disadvantages also, but at least it's out there and no longer an elephant in the room. Plus, you're moving out and I know that feels like an escape. It did for me anyway.

 

The problem is you need some space to think and I hope you don't complicate that with the OW -- for her sake and for yours. I KNOW that is so much easier said than done. I saw my OM the entire time I was in my apartment and by doing so, eliminated my ability to focus on what I really wanted to occur as far as my marriage is concerned.

 

If you don't contact her, however, you risk the chance of losing her. It's a pickle. I'm probably not helping -- just thinking out loud.

[tbone]

I"m now at MCDonald's in a town nearby looking for somewhere to shack up for the next two weeks. REalistically this is going to be an uphill battle as well. I am the sole breadwinner, so funds are pretty tight. I have zero interest in trying to leave the W in ANY sort of financial predicament. So I'm going to just try and snag some sort of sleeping room arrangement for now. I have however decided when the substantial tax return shows up in a week I am immediately withdrawing half and setting up my own account just to cver my rear end.

 

How did people do this crap before cell phones?

 

Hard to find a pay phone these days.

[White Flower]

 

I agree with this point -- and don't agree also. I agree because it's what my heart says and how I feel about my XAP. I don't agree because realistically the stats are so against those feelings actually panning out to be what we think they are while in an affair relationship. I think it's real, but I know the odds are way against it actually being that and working out long term.

 

Basically, I think when a person is in a position like the one tbone is in -- they do not really know what they want long term.

 

If you don't contact her, however, you risk the chance of losing her. It's a pickle. I'm probably not helping -- just thinking out loud.

 

Samantha I would have agreed with you in the past based on my readings here at LS but I've been checking out other infidelity sites lately and the numbers are quite staggering TBH. There was a thread on another site that asked for a poll on how many WS actually left for the OP. Turned out to be a very high majority, somewhere in the 90 percentile. While I know that poll was based on that thread during that week on that site it still rates as an extreme contradiction to the advice we see here at LS on an ongoing basis.

 

We need to be aware there is a trend at LS to reform the WS instead of offering true stats. My suggestion is to take the time and read elsewhere for a better assessment of the spectrum.

 

With a 50%-60% D rate (in the US) one has to question whether there is validity in the notion that the OP *usually* ends up alone.

Edited March 14, 2010 by White Flower

[White Flower]

I"m now at MCDonald's in a town nearby looking for somewhere to shack up for the next two weeks. REalistically this is going to be an uphill battle as well. I am the sole breadwinner, so funds are pretty tight. I have zero interest in trying to leave the W in ANY sort of financial predicament. So I'm going to just try and snag some sort of sleeping room arrangement for now. I have however decided when the substantial tax return shows up in a week I am immediately withdrawing half and setting up my own account just to cver my rear end.

 

How did people do this crap before cell phones?

 

Hard to find a pay phone these days.

 

tbone, you need to go out and by a Go Phone. They're about $20 now and you just put time on it. You need it to find a place to stay and to communicate with your family. You can find a Go Phone at any cell phone store and at Walmart.

 

I'm so glad you are feeling empowered. There is some validity in the statement, 'The truth shall set you free'.

[White Flower]

 

How did people do this crap before cell phones?

 

Hard to find a pay phone these days.

 

MM has never once used a pay phone to call me either, not even when in another country.

 

I often wonder what BS used in the past to throw at their WS? Was it the frying pan? My dad once pulled the landline from the wall when he thought my mom was cheating. My mom never got violent when she learned of my dad's indiscretions.

[BB07]

I"m now at MCDonald's in a town nearby looking for somewhere to shack up for the next two weeks. REalistically this is going to be an uphill battle as well. I am the sole breadwinner, so funds are pretty tight. I have zero interest in trying to leave the W in ANY sort of financial predicament. So I'm going to just try and snag some sort of sleeping room arrangement for now. I have however decided when the substantial tax return shows up in a week I am immediately withdrawing half and setting up my own account just to cver my rear end.

 

How did people do this crap before cell phones?

 

Hard to find a pay phone these days.

 

 

Is there some friends that you could stay with, someone that would give you a bed plus some moral support?

 

You should cover your rear end because you are dealing with a very pissed off woman and revenge might be the jugular she goes for. You need to protect yourself, her and your children.

[Brokenlady]

Tbone,

The most telling thing is the not so secret hope that your W wants to divorce you. I gather she took the first step in asking you to leave the house, and I can see why that would be good for both of you. However, you are already planning on staying away for quite awhile when she's only talking about a few days. I sincerely hope you tell her of your intentions. Already I fear this getting turned around on her - "well you asked me to move out", even though you wanted to leave as much as she wanted you to.

 

When your W inevitably asks for you to come back home in a few days, what will you do? I'm not a huge fan of this policy of letting your W be the bad guy - let her kick you out, let her file for divorce, etc. My xDM did it, and his mixed messages emotionally destroyed everyone around him. It was total bull - you must make a real choice. One you stick with and move forward with. Otherwise you're just trying to set yourself up to look like the hapless victim of your W's decisions, and no one's going to buy it.

 

As far as your kids are concerned, give some real serious thought about whether it's safe to leave them with her. Your W sounds a lot like my XDM's xW - physically abusive (to him) and emotionally abusive (to the kids). It may appear to be insult to injury, but your kids need to come first, no matter what. He's in the process now of filing for custody because a year later he now (way too late) realizes the grave mistake he made. In essence he sold his kids out to alleviate his guilt (he left them with her despite knowing it was a bad idea in order to alleviate some of his guilt for leaving and not send her over the edge). Think what's best for your kids.

 

And lastly, do not even think of staying with your W only "for the kids". That's insulting to her and a disaster waiting to happen. Stampdaddy's completely right on. And stay away from the OW until you're really done with your M. Anything else is incredibly hurtful to her and selfish.

[tbone]

She came back today and came to see me at my dad's. She initially just wanted to talk about reconcilliation, but turned nasty again.

 

This time she scratched my eye ball causing it to bleed. I told her, no more physical acting out or I was calling the police. My eye has a red blood spot on it now and scratches on my neck from yesterday.

 

I know she is just so heartbroken and confused about what to do. She just wanted me out of the house a few days during the evening. I told her I thought it was best for me to move out for awhile, to sort things out in my mind. This crushed her I know because she just wants me to commit already. I told her that right now it would not be a good idea to come back, due to my frame of mind.

 

This did not make her happy, as I think she figures I'm going to be out on the prowl.

 

She brought the kids over to see me at my dad's and showed up with her parents too. An obvious power play to make in an uncomfortable situation. I really don't care, I ignored them and focused on my kids, but it does bother me that they try and cause more turmoil with the kids there.

[bentnotbroken]

Good you told her you would call the cops. If you do decide to stay with her, this must be a part of the healing. She has to get help for how she deals with anger. I had to, I still see my therapist. It will not only benefit her but the children as well.

[PhoenixRise]

Good that you told her you would call the cops if there was more violence. Don't let that be an empty threat. Really do it if it comes to that.

 

I think your wife really wanted you to WANT to come home. She is very hurt and disappointed that you don't want to at the moment. She probably is afraid that you will be spending your time away from home with your OW.

 

If you do decided eventually to go home, make her getting IC to deal with her anger issues a non negotiable. She must do it.

 

Tell her that you own the affair and the betrayal and you will try to make that right. But you won't go back to the kind of marriage you had before, so you BOTH will have to be willing to work at making things better (all this IF you decide to go back).

[tbone]

Are her parents practicing LDS as well? I'm not Mormon, but think they have a very strict view of divorce.

 

Yes, they are. And yes the have a very strict view of divorce. However, adultery is one instance where divorce IS acceptable. Plus we never had a "temple" marriage because I was a Gentile, and not worthy of temple entrance and all the accutrements.

 

That being said, divorce is not what she wants. But I am just not sure if I can commit to what would be required to rebuild the M.

[tbone]

I think your wife really wanted you to WANT to come home. She is very hurt and disappointed that you don't want to at the moment. She probably is afraid that you will be spending your time away from home with your OW.

 

If you do decided eventually to go home, make her getting IC to deal with her anger issues a non negotiable. She must do it.

 

Tell her that you own the affair and the betrayal and you will try to make that right. But you won't go back to the kind of marriage you had before, so you BOTH will have to be willing to work at making things better (all this IF you decide to go back).

 

I think what upset her was the fact that I am not able to provide her the comfort that she needs after I hurt her so badly. Instead I have become rather callous, so that's understandable on her part. I told her that I felt empowered for the first time in 9 years of marriage to be myself and to be honest with her and no longer in fear. That set her off.

[PhoenixRise]

Yes, they are. And yes the have a very strict view of divorce. However, adultery is one instance where divorce IS acceptable. Plus we never had a "temple" marriage because I was a Gentile, and not worthy of temple entrance and all the accutrements.

 

That being said, divorce is not what she wants. But I am just not sure if I can commit to what would be required to rebuild the M.

 

 

Well Tbone

 

I don't know how long you were unhappy in the marriage before the affair started. But....

 

You have been unhappy for awhile.

You have had a 7 month affair

You have now had a dday.

 

Pretty soon you are going to have to either pi$$ or get off the pot.

 

Here is the thing, you can't make progress either way until you decide which direction you are going to focus your attention.

 

What exactly do YOU think will be required to rebuild the marriage?

What is is that you are not willing to do?

[PhoenixRise]

I think what upset her was the fact that I am not able to provide her the comfort that she needs after I hurt her so badly. Instead I have become rather callous, so that's understandable on her part. I told her that I felt empowered for the first time in 9 years of marriage to be myself and to be honest with her and no longer in fear. That set her off.

 

Yeah. I can see why such a statement would make her angry. AND if you are callous in the face of her pain I can see how that would pi$$ her off too.

 

Tbone, did you ever love this woman?

[Brokenlady]

I agree with phoenix - don't let it be an empty threat.

 

Right now, your W is hoping you will come to her weeping with regret, swearing your love for her and that you'll spend the rest of your life trying to make it up to her. As disappointing as it may be that you aren't doing that - she has NO right to be violent.

 

I'm glad you feel empowered. It sounds as though you felt very controlled and demeaned by your W (and "in fear of" her even). It sounds like you are on the path to doing the right thing for all of you. Good for you! I am impressed with your strength - my xDM could have never done what you've done. Keep a good grip on your spine, you'll be getting increasing pressure to cave to her demands as she continues to tell the world of your affair.

 

Given her violent tendencies, have you given any thought about the wisdom of leaving the kids in her care?

[tbone]

Well Tbone

 

I don't know how long you were unhappy in the marriage before the affair started. But....

 

You have been unhappy for awhile.

You have had a 7 month affair

You have now had a dday.

 

Pretty soon you are going to have to either pi$$ or get off the pot.

 

Here is the thing, you can't make progress either way until you decide which direction you are going to focus your attention.

 

What exactly do YOU think will be required to rebuild the marriage?

What is is that you are not willing to do?

 

I think what will be required for me to rebuild the marriage is the commitment to do so. Right now I don't have that commitment. I don't have any love for my wife to do so. This is evidenced by my callous attitude towards her even in the time she needs me the most after I have hurt her so badly. You are right. I can't do this forever, but I cannot give her the vow to commit to do whatever is necessary unless I am to lie to her again.

 

Truthfully there is also that bird on my shoulder whispering in my ear about losing the OW. Its nearly impossible to not think about it even though I have maintained NC.

[whichwayisup]

IF you and your OW are meant to be together, somehow you two will find eachother again..But, time apart, while you sort yourself out, take time to work through all the stuff you need to work at.. If she is there at the end (that is IF you do divorce) then look at it as a bonus. If not, then you're going to be OK alone. It's better in the long run to 'find' her again when you're truly available and out of the affair dynamtic. To run to her now is unhealthy.. You two will have trust issues with one another..

 

Whatever the outcome is in the future, Tbone you will be alright. You've taken control of your life, as much as it's hurt your wife, the truth is out there and hopefully in time, things will get easier.

 

Even if you do divorce, you and your wife can co-parent together, be on OK terms for the kids sake.. marriage counselling will help along the way.

[tbone]

I know your children are young, but what if anything have you told them about this?

You may not be giving your kids enough credit for their resilience. I'm wondering if in the long run, they wouldn't rather see their parents apart and at least one happy than see both their parents together and miserable.

 

I have told them that right now mommy and daddy are not getting along. And that dad made some bad choices that hurt mom inside, but that no matter what they would be ok. I told them that I loved them very much and always would.

 

I worry about what is getting fed to them on the other end a little as she has had a tendency to drag them in the middle and say things they should not hear even as terrible of a husband and subsquently father I have been.

[wheelwright]

I have told them that right now mommy and daddy are not getting along. And that dad made some bad choices that hurt mom inside, but that no matter what they would be ok. I told them that I loved them very much and always would.

 

I worry about what is getting fed to them on the other end a little as she has had a tendency to drag them in the middle and say things they should not hear even as terrible of a husband and subsquently father I have been.

 

Any mum who would do this to her kids does not have their interests at heart. This is far graver than cheating.

 

Can you get her to agree a best possible way to deal with this for the kids, or is she too self-centred for that? If so, no wonder you want out. No way would I spend my life with someone who was willing to manipulate the feelings of my children for spite, gain, ot anything that didn't cherish them.

 

If she is not willing to see beyond her own hurt for her children, you have a horrible situation on your hands, and so do your kids. Speak to her better nature. They can know that you have hurt her, but she should never make them doubt your love for them or your character.

 

If she has the unsettling traits you have described, they will already know that there is more than one side to the story. When you see them, make sure you say you understand differing viewpoints. It will help them to.

[tbone]

Can you get her to agree a best possible way to deal with this for the kids, or is she too self-centred for that?

 

She has the best of intentions I know, but lets her anger get the best of her. I know she had no intention of getting physical again with me today. But she is so upset inside and so angry for what I have done, and its killing her that I'm not able to give her what she needs right now.

 

I'm not excusing her behavior in any way. But I know why she is lashing out. Yesterday she was doing it (attacking me) in front of our youngest which was wayyyy out of line.

 

I was talking with my good friend today about the way things have turned out. He mentioned something to me that I hadn't thought of lately. My wife is VERY much like her mother. Very domineering, and controlling. Her dad's personality is to some degree like mine was. He looks like the most deflated, defeated, depressed man every time I see him. Life looks like it has got the best of him, and he's given up.

 

I do not want to end up in that position.

[BB07]

 

I do not want to end up in that position.

 

 

Then DON'T. I know I'm making it sound simplistic but it really is.

[fooled once]

You hit this woman with news that rocked her world, devestated her and the marriage she thought she had is gone. Her entire universe just tilted.

 

While I don't condone violence at all, I guess I am not outraged at her behavior because you totally shattered her.

 

She has felt your indifference, but now she not only sees how little you care about her, how much you have lied to her but she also sees no remorse for what you have done and you have cut her to the core of her being and her womanhood.

 

The woman she thought she was, the wife she thought she was is gone. The marriage she thought she had (albeit with rough spots) is gone. Her everything is gone.

 

Not only have you been emotionally cruel to her, you slept with another woman and gave your heart to another woman.

 

You have known about all of your deeds for months -- and you have had time to flip flop on what you want, etc. She was slapped with it and then had to attend a church function with her kids. She hasn't had 10 minutes alone to digest it all ---- yet she seems to be expected to just accept it, deal with it and not be angry

 

Of course she is acting out -- who wouldn't when their world comes crashing down on them?

 

You have chosen to go back and forth for months/weeks -- lying, sneaking around, being mean to her.

 

For heaven's sake - divorce her. You have stated repeatedly you don't love her, you killed the love you felt for her (which I am not sure you even felt love for her because you really don't talk about anything besides what a bad wife she is).

 

You don't want her. You don't love her. You don't even really like her. So how do you expect to rebuild a marriage?

 

Your children deserve parents who are role models. Your children deserve to be kids, to not be dragged into this. Your children deserve love and commitment from their parents. You can do this from a different home. My H was a non custodial dad (his kids are now grown). While he didn't raise them or have them every day, he has a very good relationship with both of them -- and neither of them resent him or hate him for not being there every day. Heck, his Daughter was under 3 when he and his ex split. Yet today, she is still daddy's girl and have developed a very good relationship.

 

You can do that to. But you have got to make a frickin decision on whether to stay married to their mom or not. If you cannot love her, if you cannot be truthful with her, if you cannot be faithful to her, if you cannot even like her - then DON'T play this game of "I owe it to my kids to make the marriage work". That's crap and just another cop out.

 

You and your wife, IMHO, need to sit down and have a conversation. You need to be honest with her about your intentions. Also remember, you have had plenty of time to make a decision, yet this news was dropped on her 24 hours ago that the man she married, the man she loves, the man she planned to spend her life with is NOT the man she thinks she thought he was.

 

Give her time to get her bearings straight - to make a decision for HERSELF. I am sure in the coming days, she is going to continue to have highs and lows with her emotions, and that is completely understandable.

 

While you get to run off, she has to continue to parent and maintain the home for the kids. She isn't afforded the same 'luxury' as you to go off and not have to be responsible - she has lunches to make, dinner to make, laundry to do, homework to review, toys to pick up, etc. When does she get a break to deal with her world crashing down?

 

I would make 1 suggestion - go get your kids and give her a break. Go spend time with them (away from the house) so your wife can have a break down if she needs to.

 

And I agree with Stamp - quit waiting for everyone else to make a decision for you. If you can't 100% commit to give your wife and your marriage EVERYTHING - then end the marriage.

[bentnotbroken]

Excellent post FO. Break it down!

[tbone]

Excellent post FO. Break it down!

 

Here, here.

[BB07]

It truly was an excellent post FO! 10 big thumbs up.

 

There is a lot of wisdom there and she described exactly what your wife must be feeling and FO is correct........either go to her with love in your heart or tell her you are walking. Don't put it off too long and jerk her around. On the other hand she may tell you to hit the door, but actually I think a part of you wants that very thing.

 

I've been left and I've done the leaving and doing the leaving is the thing that you have to be the bravest about.