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How Can I Stop My Wife Seeing OM


ConflictedGuy27

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ConflictedGuy27
She sounds like a narcissist.

 

My therapist believes she's likely a borderline narcissist; although pros need to be face to face in order to diagnose that disorder properly.

 

Based on situations I've shared with my therapist, she's convinced my STBX has a very under developed capacity for empathy.

 

Matter of fact, one of the last things we worked on was understanding why I initially was attracted to that type of woman. Very interesting dynamic to be aware of. I know what to dodge now in future relationships. Trust me, when a narcissist is done with you, you're seriously tossed aside like a used tissue - no remorse, cause there's no capacity for empathy.

 

All good tho. I'll be free soon & the refi is moving along as expected.

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onedayatatyme
Thing is, she's not a bad person. She's made bad choices. There's a difference.

 

What is the difference between a bad person and someone who makes bad choices?

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ConflictedGuy27
How do your parents feel about what is happening and you in-laws, what are they saying?

 

Everyone was floored initially. My inlaws grew up with her so they've seen how impulsive and bratty she's been in years past. Her mom was literally in tears when I revealed what was going on.

 

They thought they could talk some "sense" into her, but they were truly under estimating the power of the affair, which (as far as I'm concerned) was/is turbo charged by her narcissim and full time inward focus. Bottom line - she's happy at the moment and nothing else matters, not even how our family felt.

 

On my side, same deal. My dad loved her and now that he has the facts is just disgusted with how she chose to handle the D. He was pointing out some seriously aggregious sh*t back when I was trying to recon. He, along with all of you, really helped shake me free from that idiot notion (reconciling).

 

Now the family stays quiet. They're hoping we'll work it out so they stopped checking in. Since the news was never what the majority wants to hear I don't bring up my STBX or the A; I keep it cheery small talk and get off the phone. When her mom asks me if things are any better in our M, I tell her that "No need to worry, I'll be sure to let u know if things improve." That day's not coming and I believe she's wise enough to realize that I'm done. Her choice of words tell me that.

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ConflictedGuy27
What is the difference between a bad person and someone who makes bad choices?

 

I saw this and a few other points jmargel mentioned in his/her post above that I took issue with (respectfully, of course).

 

Bottom line - there's no difference, certainly not from a 3rd party perspective.

If I set off a nuke in the middle of a crowded city, does my motivation for doing the act change anything? No.

 

That argument could be used to describe Hitler too: He wasn't an evil man, he just made evil decisions... Select your descriptive word and BAM, no need to take responsibility.

 

My STBX is a bad person because she's making bad decisions. That logic works for everything that is what it's being: I.e. why a prostitute is a prostitute - cause the internal choice is being made to behaive like one.

 

Internally, sure there's probably a reason for my STBX's motive and I'm damn sure she doesn't believe she's a bad person, but the facts are the facts.

 

I'll shave a few "bad points" off the top cause she likely has a personality disorder but that still doesn't let her off the hook.

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Doing it Since '78
He is talking about an overnight bag that she carries back and forth to her boyfriend's house. His wife had the actual nerve to leave it sitting on CG's bedroom floor.

 

CG, your a better dude than me. I would have pissed in the bag (one of those all night out drunk as $hit morning pisses too, or even better one of those behind the liquor store broken glass alley way pisses, or even better one of those drank a two liter bottle of mountain dew can't find a rest stop for 40 miles pisses), zipped it up, and stored it in a nice warm place until further use was needed

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onedayatatyme
I saw this and a few other points jmargel mentioned in his/her post above that I took issue with (respectfully, of course).

 

Bottom line - there's no difference, certainly not from a 3rd party perspective.

If I set off a nuke in the middle of a crowded city, does my motivation for doing the act change anything? No.

 

That argument could be used to describe Hitler too: He wasn't an evil man, he just made evil decisions... Select your descriptive word and BAM, no need to take responsibility.

 

My STBX is a bad person because she's making bad decisions. That logic works for everything that is what it's being: I.e. why a prostitute is a prostitute - cause the internal choice is being made to behaive like one.

 

Internally, sure there's probably a reason for my STBX's motive and I'm damn sure she doesn't believe she's a bad person, but the facts are the facts.

 

I'll shave a few "bad points" off the top cause she likely has a personality disorder but that still doesn't let her off the hook.

 

I agree. I asked the question because my MC said that same thing about my wife. He asked me, "Do you really think she's a bad person?" You can hardly say in front of your wife that your trying to recon with, "Well, sorta, yeah!"

 

She's continually mind f***ing me and while I think the A is over, she is trying to do just enough to keep me on the hook while not commiting to this recon. And she's getting more hysterical and playing more the victim the more and more she's aware that she's not stringing me along any longer.

 

So I was wondering if there is a litmus test for a bad person. I would definitely say that one bad decision does not a bad person make. But man, CG, yours is showing a consistent pattern of bad decisions. I think you got yourself a bad person. Personally, I'm torn about mine and trying to figure out if she's good or not. If for no other reason than to decide how ruthless and/or defensive to be during divorce proceedings.

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I agree. I asked the question because my MC said that same thing about my wife. He asked me, "Do you really think she's a bad person?" You can hardly say in front of your wife that your trying to recon with, "Well, sorta, yeah!"

 

She's continually mind f***ing me and while I think the A is over, she is trying to do just enough to keep me on the hook while not commiting to this recon. And she's getting more hysterical and playing more the victim the more and more she's aware that she's not stringing me along any longer.

 

So I was wondering if there is a litmus test for a bad person. I would definitely say that one bad decision does not a bad person make. But man, CG, yours is showing a consistent pattern of bad decisions. I think you got yourself a bad person. Personally, I'm torn about mine and trying to figure out if she's good or not. If for no other reason than to decide how ruthless and/or defensive to be during divorce proceedings.

 

Personality labels are classifications, not excuses. Really, it's about being insensitive and egocentric. It's about feeling entitled to whatever you want regardless. It's being mentally immature. She probably feels that she is entitled to be happy and that you have no right to stop her. Strangely enough, she also feels entitled to be cared for, which is why she's still living there. Many cheaters feel very entitled to support, simply because they have always recieved it. When you threaten to remove that support, they feel bullied, like you're a parent trying to tell them what to do. They simply don't make the connection that the support is the price of the marriage vows. They will actively refuse to acknowledge it because they feel it is unfair. They are unable to comprehend that making someone care for you in the bond of marriage while you break those contractual vows is grossly unfair. They are the same personalities that buy the 12 CD's for a penny and then don't buy any more, that borrow money and don't pay it back, etc.

 

They have a greatly exagerrated sense of entitlement and a very shriveled sense of responsibility. The best thing you can do for these people is give them a taste of the full repercussions of their actions. Give them a wake up call!

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torranceshipman
First of all, let me say that much of the advice I've seen given here at LS is top notch. Which is why I'm looking for some help. I'll try to keep this as to the point as possible.

 

My wife and I have been married for 3 years (aniversary was on 2/24); she's 26 and i'm 27; and since January I've been going through torture - she asked for a divorce on 1/23/10.

 

She basically said that needs to find herself, that we don't do many exciting things together, that we've basically grown apart, and she basically feels trapped in the relationship. While this "discussion" was going on, she was crying, as I was too. She seemed really sincere, as she was not yelling or anything. I was obviously shocked - as I thought our marriage wasn't in this much trouble... In any event I try to keep her talking, to find a way that we could resolve this situation like any other conflict we've had in the past.

 

I should mention that we got into a fight the previous week about how we don't do new stuff (she's been wanting a tattoo also); as a result of that fight we made this list of new things to do in 2010 - all was very new, pretty exciting stuff (i.e. skydiving, learning to ride motorcycles, ziplining, etc.)

 

Back to the D day talk: So I say to her, I don't understand, we just put this list together a few days ago - we can do that stuff. Why do you want to end our marriage? She just kept saying that she's thought long and hard about it and over about 2 years she's been unhappy...

 

She swore there was no OM, but that was not the case...

Basically we end the conversation and I'm just... omg, devestated. So I ask her later that day, "you know what, if you really want to do some new stuff together, lets accelerate our list..." I signed us up for motorcycle training that day. I also started looking around for skydiving places. She liked those ideas.

 

The following week she was very cold. She would get home from work anywhere between 9pm - 1am, claiming that there was an after work happy hour or something and had to go. She works in an office w/ a lot of professional twenty somethings. When she did get home and came to bed she would usually be in a sweater an sweat pants - don't touch me clothes. When I would try to cuddle up to her, she wasn't having it and also, she began sleeping with her cell phone... Keeping it very out of sight...

 

We all see the signs at this point...

 

She would wake up before me and sit up thinking in the mornings and in the shower she would just stand there with the faucet showering her head; I thought she was either severely stressed out at work, or depressed. (I imagine that was intense guilt... She probably started sleeping with OM about this time) After seeing this day in and day out for a week I started waking up with her and showering with her - washing her back, comforting her, etc. I saw that she was very "well groomed" in that area, which was something she usually only did for me, from time to time... That was a huge red flag for me.

 

Anyway we do some skydiving and start motorcycles at the tail end of January, we had fun, but she was still coming home late and was very withdrawn emotionally - she wouldn't let me really touch her or kiss her, let alone have sex...

 

In the begining of February I get really suspicious and start snooping around on the computer and stuff. I find that she's blocked her wall from me on Facebook, and even worse I instant messaging transcripts where she's calling some dude "Sweetheart" and saying **** like "We're perfect together, you sweep me off my feet everytime we go out"... I went numb after reading all this ****...

 

The next night she gets home and I don't jump down her throat... Instead I start taking our pictures of us from around our condo and boxing them up. I run into our wedding video and watch it and damn was it beautiful. Anyway, I figure, maybe this video can get through to her.

 

When she gets home (around 11:30) I ask her to watch the video with me and afterward I had a confession to make to her. When I turned it on, she didn't know what we were watching and she started to cry some. I just rubbed her leg. I love my wife and just wanted this **** to stop. After the video I get down in front of her and tell her, "don't ask me how I know, but I know deep down in my heart that you're having an affair... I don't need you to admit it, I just need it to stop, right now. You need to stop it and we need to get into marriage counseling tomorrow. What do you say?" She said, "can I think about it..." Sheeeeit...

 

The next day I'm not so easy going. She comes home again after 11pm and when I get her cornered I start asking questions based on the evidence I had. I basically saw the OM's facebook, etc. So I have names and stuff. I asked her if she was having an affair directly again, she denied it; I asked her about the OM by name (a coworker) and she denied the affair... At that point she started getting hostle and said she would take her clothes and leave if I was going to keep going on about this... I basically backed down, because I didn't want her to leave.

 

We went to sleep and that was the last day she came home for like a week at at time...

 

During the week I would call her and text her, asking her where she's at and telling her that we need to talk about this and work it out. When I pursued that type of conversation it would usually end with, I want a divorce still. When I didn't bring it up, she would talk as though nothing was wrong. Yet she didn't come home at all.

 

The first Saturday when she came back, I couldn't stand the sight of her face and left (we were suppose to go motorcycling together that day). When I got back around 7 hours later, the house was (uncharacteristcally clean - like spic and span and she did all my laundry, folded and put away...). I wanted to call and be like wtf? but I held out.

 

We talked again during the week and she told me that she knows that I know about the OM and again I asked her if she could drop it and work it out with me. She then said, no, in so many words...

 

Basically I would spend most of my time online looking up ways that I could fix this situation myself, but I doubt I can.

 

She stayed away again during the week - she would claim at a girl friend's house. When she came back on Saturday she and I ended up laying on the couch together after she cooked some lunch for us. I didn't know what to make of this really... At this point I realize she's cake eating...

 

She actually told me that she's been seeing someone, going on dates to theme parks and ****. I snooped around and found some of the photos too.

 

I reached a point where I just hooked up with some friends out of town and stayed away all weekend, basically NC. Somehow she found out and decided to move back in for the weekdays, but it didn't take long for her to figure out that I was still wrapped around her little finger.

 

After she figured that out, again she's back in the streets so to speak, not coming home.

 

She's been asking for a divorce, yet she won't file it... Again, I don't think this is her intent. I think she wants to have her cake and eat it too, plus I'm convinced she thinks I won't do it.

 

I went out last week and filed for a divorce but have not served her yet... I seriously don't want to divorce my wife but ****... she put me through so much. I was mildly depressed for the first week and managed to pull myself out of it and force myself to eat. (I lost 10lbs and look pretty good).

 

As of this point, I haven't talked to her at all since Thursday. She'll pull this indirect communication BS, i.e. coming home and cleaning up, or doing chores, or taking the valentines day card I got her (that she just threw aside and texted me w/ a thank you) and put it up on the fireplace mantle... wtf?

 

Her mom and our inlaws are completely unaware of all her BS... I told her I would tell them all and she said "no lets not do that until all the paperwork is finalized..." Such a ****ing cake eater. She even lied to her mother saying that we were together on Valentines day when she was actually out on a ****ing date...

 

When I think with my head, I realize that this is likely a lost cause, but my heart just keeps on thinking we can get back together...

 

When she's around in the mornings she sleeps over, I usually try to make a move and can get her in the shower pretty easily, but it never turns into sex or anything like that... We usually hug pretty passionately too.

 

I definitely know that she's the one in power right now... and I ****ing hate it... Any advice on how I can either get the power back, or in general how I should proceed with this? Again I have the divorce papers in my back pocket... (thanks for reading this long post)

 

No matter WHAT you want, to get her back or get rid of her, the EXACT same solution needs to be followed. Serve her the divorce papers. Move on. And do not move on that, whatsoever. Don't give in to her. That will give you 100% the upper hand and will maximizise, ironically, your chances of getting her back AND your chances of stopping the cake eating and getting a bad influence out of your life.

 

You've acted with dignity, really given your M a chance - you clearly value M and take it seriously - but you've gone completely as far as a guy can go, without moving into doormat territory. The time for her to make amends even, has passed. Let her get what she wished for - I think she'll regret it. You're too good for all this, and you'll completely lose yourself if you allow her to treat you like this. The words that crushed me? 'Can I think about it'? That's beyond harsh, dude - you need to walk away. You've totally treated your M with all the respect in the world and given it your all so if there is anyone right now that should walk away with regrets let it be her as it sure as heck shouldnt be you.

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onedayatatyme
Personality labels are classifications, not excuses. Really, it's about being insensitive and egocentric. It's about feeling entitled to whatever you want regardless. It's being mentally immature. She probably feels that she is entitled to be happy and that you have no right to stop her. Strangely enough, she also feels entitled to be cared for, which is why she's still living there. Many cheaters feel very entitled to support, simply because they have always recieved it. When you threaten to remove that support, they feel bullied, like you're a parent trying to tell them what to do. They simply don't make the connection that the support is the price of the marriage vows. They will actively refuse to acknowledge it because they feel it is unfair. They are unable to comprehend that making someone care for you in the bond of marriage while you break those contractual vows is grossly unfair. They are the same personalities that buy the 12 CD's for a penny and then don't buy any more, that borrow money and don't pay it back, etc.

 

They have a greatly exagerrated sense of entitlement and a very shriveled sense of responsibility. The best thing you can do for these people is give them a taste of the full repercussions of their actions. Give them a wake up call!

 

Man, have you just summed up my wife. Actually I'm in the process of cutting her off financially. she is going to be one unhappy camper. But it's time to pull out the big guns.

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He is talking about an overnight bag that she carries back and forth to her boyfriend's house. His wife had the actual nerve to leave it sitting on CG's bedroom floor.

oh ok , thanx

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There's a gigantormous difference between an infidel and a murderer (and your examples were of mass murderers).

 

With infidelity, you will feel and you will be told (rightfully, for a while) that being cheated on is like being raped, or worse than the death of a child (I've never unders2d that one). What you will EXPERIENCE, though is that, yes, it's pretty terrible for a while (2-5 years on average), but that after that you'll look back and if you can look back at how you dealt with the affair with NO regrets for the choices you made, then you'll have no feeling worse than pity for your xW.

 

Because years after the fact, my W's affair is nothing but a pathetic episode involving ignorant, selfish players. And as you've been finding, CA doesn't consider infidelity 2 be a crime. Most states don't, in fact.

 

People can recover from being cheaters and become better people. Some of them even do that with their betrayed spouse. Mass murderers need 2 be in the ground.

 

So I disagree, and think you'll do well 2 separate your pitiable, bad decision-making selfish wife from the the bad things you perceive she's "doing 2 you".

 

She's not a bad person. She is most definitely exhibiting some pretty bad behavior, though.

 

-ol' 2long

 

so she is not a bad person if she is doing bad things ? then who is a bad person ? I think its only ur actions that makes u good or bad person & no one is bad by birth .

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I'm not so sure I totally agree with this, respectfully.

I'm a former OW. (A "reformed" OW as the "unapologetic" OW on the OW Board like to call me.) Did you know that before today? Did you think I was a bad person before today?

I didnt go into it for jollies, or to break up a marriage. I went into it hoping he'd leave a bad relationship. Really bad decision, really bad judgement, sure. Absolutely. Bad person, no. I had remorse every day, and do still to this day. (The A ended, and his W never found out.)

So I guess I have to say the difference between a bad person and a person who makes bad decisions has something to do with the level of remorse and the likelihood of redemption.

Your W currently doesn't have any remorse. Can she be redeemed? That's to be determined.

 

nothing in op's wife actions shows that she is concerned about not hurting her husband anymore . weather in future she will have remorse or not doesn't matter . Do u not consider a criminal as criminal just because he might have remorse & become a saint in future .

. So the truth is what op's wife is doing is not just bad but terrible & only a person who is that bad can behave like that . OP needs to stay way from her because she can do worse things because she is that kind of person.

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Man, have you just summed up my wife. Actually I'm in the process of cutting her off financially. she is going to be one unhappy camper. But it's time to pull out the big guns.

 

Unfortunately, I had to learn it the hard way. I kept letting her come back and leave again, putting the rest of my life on hold waiting for her to come around, giving her the opportunity to take custody of our child, giving up child support, etc. You name the stupidity, and I've done it.

 

I may sound wise now, but hindsight is 20/20 and I've had a long time to contemplate things and some psychological education since. Once I understood that most of my trouble was my own fault for making poor choices, life started clicking into place. I couldn't fix my past mistakes, but I could start making better one's from now on.

 

In business, when coming up with a plan for the future, you ignore any money you've spent on something already and determine the best course of action from now. Ignoring sunk costs is the key to making a good decision. It's kind of the same for relationships. Sure you've invested a great deal in your current relationship, and losing that pains you greatly. But if the future outlook of throwing it away and starting over is better than trying to salvage the wreckage, than that is what you have to do.

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ConflictedGuy27
Hmm. Interesting perspective. I would never act so horribly as CG's wife has, so maybe I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.

 

I've followed other threads you've been a part of and you do know what you're talking about. It's nice getting input from someone that's been an OW, albeit a remorseful one. I forget sometimes about your history. You do demonstrate that ceasing bad behavior can restore one's status as "not bad" or even "good".

 

It's interesting that you mentioned feeling remorse everyday - did u feel it more during or after? Was the remorse cause you invested so much in the A (at the time) and he wasn't fully reciprocating by dumping his W? Were you married during your A, too?

 

I hope you don't mind my asking. Make no mistake, Im not comparing you and your infidelity to my STBX's, she's in the infidelity meets personality disorder group so I can't compare.

 

I just have a genuine curiousity about people and why we do what we do.

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Hmm. Interesting perspective. I would never act so horribly as CG's wife has, so maybe I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.

 

thats right jthorne , i have seen ur posts & can't find anything that suggessts u r a bad person , infact ur posts have always been helpful for others .

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Disintegration

That's good that you are taking the initiative to distance yourself from her by moving out. I also think it was in bad taste for her to leave her bag in your room like that knowing damn well where it's been. Gross. Good thing you wont have to deal with living under the same roof much longer, it'll make this process much easier.

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ConflictedGuy27
So you moving out this weekend, CG??

 

Not moving this weekend, but very likely signing a lease this weekend. I've got some places I'll be looking at this weekend and they know I'm looking to get in ASAP and I have the $ to make it happen.

 

Who knows, if I like what I see tomorrow & can get a reasonable mover on short notice for Sunday, sure, I may be moved out in a flash.

 

I'm shooting to move in on April 1, but you never know.

That's all the updates I have about physically getting out.

 

On another note, I'm doing very well emotionally. It's strange really how quickly a person that did u wrong can be devalued in one's mind. I'm very indifferent towards her and what I've noticed (very recently) are the voids she's left in my life now that nothing's filling them.

 

Some of those voids I'll choose to fill sooner rather than later. Getting a girl friend is like last on the list; lol.

 

For those that follow that are going thru a similar situation, I reccomend journaling. I did some audio journaling after my counseling sessions and I swear, everytime I go back and listen to past thoughts... Wow - you definitley see how far you've come; at least I do. I'm like "WTF was I thinking?!? Lol". It's great stuff. I just started doing it as a daily thing recently and it HELPS, big time, espicially when trying to leave the past behind you and build a better future.

 

I'm really glad to report, this thread is going to have a happy ending. ;p

When I first started this thread I would have never suspected feelings of happiness being connected with divorcing my ex and movin' on - life is somethin else.

 

Happy Friday All.

Edited by ConflictedGuy27
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ConflictedGuy27
... This looks to me like a pathetic attmept to make CG jealous so she can toy with him some more. Sick.

 

Normally I'd have to agree that her leaving her bag in my room was premeditaded and left for mind Fu*k reasons, I don't think that's it.

 

I tend to agree more with my counselor's speculation that she capacity to empathize is just crazy low... I honestly believe she's "without" on this one. Not like it changes the facts any - it was still a fu*ked up thing to pull, absolutely.

 

It's a little bit pittiable though. I tried thinking back and I can zero in on about 5 other instances where she pulled some sh*it that either killed EVERYBODY'S good time (cause she wasn't feeling it) or was so blatantly selfish you would just look on and wonder... I forgot why we went out so often with just the 2 of us... (which wasn't always the case). She has this Jekyl/Hyde thing going on and my friends got sick of it.

 

That OM has only seen the tip of that iceberg. Lol. I'm so glad I'm seeing clearly. Yes we had some good times, and it wouldn't be 100% true to say she had no redeeming qualities, so I won't go there - but with that said... No man should marry that woman. No healthy man would. I did and I paid the price - tattered friendships and some emotional cuts and bruises...

 

I got off lucky cause I had her early. Can u imagine a repeat of my situation for a guy marrying her at 31 and riding that roller coaster for 9 years AND adding kids to the equation... I'd suspect the future H will be the one driven to have an A. Lol.

 

Today's 3/26/10 - 9 weeks after D day - and I think I see my first glimpse of a silver lining. :)

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GorillaTheater

I agree with your counsellor, waywards just seem to completely lose any empathy. And not just for the BS, but for anyone. Which isn't to say they're above inflicting pain just for the sheer hell of it.

 

Glad you're doing better today. Rollercoaster aside, it will keep on getting better. Just continue to look after yourself.

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ConflictedGuy27

I don't usually post this late but I thought I would cause my skank STBX is at the condo and I am laughing my ass off.

 

That broad is down on the couch, lolol, it's hilarious cause she's sleeping like the Fu*ckin' LAST guest in her own pad cause she wanted to pursue her coworker.

 

It's hilarious really. She's couchin' it.

She's lucky I even give her that, as it was not community property. Lol, I'm such a gentlemen.

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Have you consider sue the OM for $8 millions? That will stop her, probably

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I got off lucky cause I had her early.

 

You got lucky because you didn't have kids with her. Can you imagine?

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I don't usually post this late but I thought I would cause my skank STBX is at the condo and I am laughing my ass off.

 

That broad is down on the couch, lolol, it's hilarious cause she's sleeping like the Fu*ckin' LAST guest in her own pad cause she wanted to pursue her coworker.

 

It's hilarious really. She's couchin' it.

She's lucky I even give her that, as it was not community property. Lol, I'm such a gentlemen.

 

Sounds like a power shift may be occurring?? I'd give her a goodbye one up the bottom and hard too (skank still sleeps on the couch though that's her level now) and then just move on the next day and do your thing, if you need to communicate with her it would be arrogantly and patronising. But then your more of a gentleman than I am. lol

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ConflictedGuy27

So get this, I get these calls emails and texts from my STBX saying (rather impolitely I might add - as no please or thank you's were used) she needs me to tell her the access code so she could do her work from home.

 

I'm out, first of all. Not to mention her work has nothing to do with the D or the refi so why should I care?

 

I mulled over the idea of emailing her the code but something seems off about that - it sends the wrong message.

 

I forget which person posted this but the phrase "nothing says Fu*k You like NC" really settled in with me. I feel that's what's appropraite. If she asked me for the code, or anything else, face to face I would love to say "Fu*k You... Doesn't your BF have wifi??" but instead I'm being cool and just avoiding contact.

 

What do u guys think? Should I help her out on this one?

It feels deep down like the WRONG thing to do. But I'm open to any commentary u guys have.

Edited by ConflictedGuy27
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