Anger

[TaraMaiden]

I disagree, actually.

Life really is so much simpler in this "Black and white" world. People ask questions, others provide answers. if everybody complied with everything on here, there'd be less infidelity, more communication and fewer broken hearts. Real life, in comparison to LS life, is a complete loose cannon.

In this, we'll have to agree to disagree. My life is really simple. If someone impacts on it negatively or acts in a dysfunctional manner on a consistent basis, it's really easy for me to cut them out. If I want something bad enough, I go get it.

 

YOUR Life, maybe. I wasn't referring to your life, specifically. I was referring to Life in general. And again, this brings me back to perception. Simply because you have succeeded in 'simplifying' your life so successfully, it does not follow others have. Either those close to you, or distant in affection, or in general.

 

This is inaccurate.

It's like learning to drive a car.

The first time you try doing it, you make a complete hash of it, and believe you'll never be able to drive.

Progressively, your skills improve.

Now, you get into the car and drive from A to B without too much of a glance at your ability - because you know you can.

It may seem like a waste of time.

But it isn't.

 

This is assuming that anger always is like a car accident. Not true.

I'm not referring to the Anger, I'm referring to training one's self to re-routing it. And the car accident doesn't come into it....

 

 

You're talking in absolutes again. If you believe as expressed above, that it's how you use a tool, as in anger is a tool, what you're suggesting here is to always transform a hammer into a butterfly.

Yup.

That would be it.

but a big butterfly. colourful. With big, effective and prominent wings. to elaborate on a metaphor....!

 

You can funnel anger into focused energy, to accomplish a difficult task. You can divert anger towards fueling a kick start.

I'll have to think on this, because I'm visualising protests against injustice, here. I might be getting a point....

 

 

Where we differ, is how we each view powerful emotions like love and anger. IMO, neither is 100% good or bad. It's all in how you use it.

Anger, as a general consensus, and global check, is rarely used as constructively as it could - or should - be.

Anger is an emotion that is far more abused than Love, with a far more devastating and far-reaching effect.

In the debate between the benefit of Anger, and the benefit of Love, my money's on the latter, every time....

[threebyfate]

YOUR Life, maybe. I wasn't referring to your life, specifically. I was referring to Life in general. And again, this brings me back to perception. Simply because you have succeeded in 'simplifying' your life so successfully, it does not follow others have. Either those close to you, or distant in affection, or in general.

If I can do it, anyone can do it. I'm not so "speshul" or the theory so complex, that others can't. It's a matter of wanting to, bad enough.

 

I'm not referring to the Anger, I'm referring to training one's self to re-routing it. And the car accident doesn't come into it....

You can train yourself to pretty much anything. The question is, is it worth it? To me, more worth it, is to take each situation and make your own judgement calls, as to what makes sense, from an energy sink perspective.

Yup.

That would be it.

but a big butterfly. colourful. With big, effective and prominent wings. to elaborate on a metaphor....!

Agree to disagree. Butterflies are easy to break. A hammer is consistently hard. Place, time and situation. Anger is a flexible tool.

 

I'll have to think on this, because I'm visualising protests against injustice, here. I might be getting a point....

Okay.

 

Anger, as a general consensus, and global check, is rarely used as constructively as it could - or should - be.

Once again, it's not the tool that's the problem but the people who are using it.

Anger is an emotion that is far more abused than Love, with a far more devastating and far-reaching effect.

In the debate between the benefit of Anger, and the benefit of Love, my money's on the latter, every time....

I disagree. Many mothers smother with love. Many people smother their partners, all in the name of love. People die for and on behalf of love. The tool isn't the problem. Its usage can be.

 

p.s. I'm enjoying this debate. Hope you are too.

[flc]

Anger is something that I work on a lot. I found it to be very destructive as it makes you focus and expand the negatives of the object of your anger. It clouds reason and vision and almost always damages relationships. Anger is almost always a result of not getting ones desires met. Anger should not be repressed but should be replaced with patience.

 

A good book on this is 'How to Solve Our Human Problems' - Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. Even if you are not into Dharma there is information that most people can relate to.

Edited March 3, 2010 by flc

[TaraMaiden]

I see every aspect of what you say, and I think there is much logic in what you say.

I think in a way, we might be saying the same thing, the usage rather than what it is.... I do agree there. hence my comment on the 'peaceful protest'.... getting 'angry' enough about a situation, to actively want to do something to change it.

I get angry about The China-Tibet issue.

I get angry about physical violence and cruel discrimination against women. (I'm talking about suppression of the feminine, in barbaric circumstances... Not thinking at Woggle's level of 'stuff' here! )

I get angry about the refusal to recognise the ordination of Nuns in Thailand.

I get angry about all kinds of socially unacceptable issues... paedophilia, violence against children, that kinda stuff....

So yes, I take your point....

But in a 'reduced' state, on a one-to-one basis, I find myself better geared and more precise, and thoughtful about my thoughts, words and actions when interacting with a fellow being....That sounds so holier-than-thou. I apologise, I don't mean to sound pompous or pious....I'm hoping you get what I mean....

if I have to co-exist with another person, and meet with them regularly, it seems a more skilful act to me, to try to avoid resorting to anger in order to resolve a situation between us....

I am thinking specifically of a work colleague with whom I have difficulty working. I am her manager, but she has a strong temperament, and whilst I do not say this to put myself in a better light, by her own admission she is arrogant, and flies off the handle easily, and finds it hard to listen to reason when all she can see is red.....

 

And I think this is one of the best debates I have enjoyed on LS so far, so I thank you for that. It's great fun!

[TaraMaiden]

I

Many mothers smother with love. Many people smother their partners, all in the name of love. People die for and on behalf of love. The tool isn't the problem. Its usage can be.

 

No no no....This kind of emotion does not have the seismic effect that a generalised hatred or anger, does,

The love may be complex, misguided and disguised even, but there is still an intention of affection there. in Anger of global magnitude, it's ghard to see where there is a good designed into it.....

 

When I consider the different forms of killing and genocide which have all occurred in History, this kind of anger and hatred cannot be compared to a mother's smothering Love. And although self-sacrifice, through Love, is heartwarming and uplifting.... the dying is perpetrated through a wrong act.

[threebyfate]

No no no....This kind of emotion does not have the seismic effect that a generalised hatred or anger, does,

The love may be complex, misguided and disguised even, but there is still an intention of affection there. in Anger of global magnitude, it's ghard to see where there is a good designed into it.....

 

When I consider the different forms of killing and genocide which have all occurred in History, this kind of anger and hatred cannot be compared to a mother's smothering Love. And although self-sacrifice, through Love, is heartwarming and uplifting.... the dying is perpetrated through a wrong act.

But people commit all kinds of attrocities in the name of love for their God(s). Hopefully you're not going to suggest that all of these fundamentalists, don't love their God(s).

[TaraMaiden]

It's not Love for God that makes them act this way. It's anger against the unbeliever/heathen.

Religious wars are all fought against those who oppose the aggressive religion, exactly for that reason.

People fight in the name of God, to eliminate 'His' enemies.

 

The same could be said for a man who loves his wife, but kills her lover.

It's not for the love of his wife, he kills him. It's for the act of treachery.

[pureinheart]

As far as I am concerned, my feelings are that any manifestation of Anger, however healthy and beneficial it might feel, leaves something in its wake. No matter how better we feel, no matter how justified we think we are, (because someone, somewhere, is going to disagree) no matter how constructive we try to make it, there will always be an element of regret, a situation that may to one extent or another, need remedying.

Anger always 'breaks' something, which needs repair, as far as it can be repaired.

 

Sometimes, the repair is so obvious, it's like a huge scar on the face of the planet. At other times, the repair is so precise and detailed, you can't see the join.

But no matter how skilfully matters have been addressed, you always know that something got broken.....

 

I really like your reply and had to laugh (not making light of your reply though, laughing at me)....literally broke a lot of stuff in my day...

 

I wonder if it is personality types also, meaning does a persons personality come into play...or past experiences and such.

 

I don't like to hurt people physically or mentally, I have always been a "firey" person and have been told that I am very passionate in every thing I do. Frustration would build up due to whatever and intstead of taking anything out on anyone would hit brick walls (possibly because I could not put holes through those) and various other methods...usually by myself as adult temper tantrums are rather embarrassing.

 

Throwing things really helped me release back in the day, although I have not found the need to throw things lately.

 

Oh yes, you are so right, "the broken" stuff is still in the broken state, meaning matters that lead up to what I refer to as an "adult temper tantrum", are still there and need to be addressed.

[pureinheart]

Anger is something that I work on a lot. I found it to be very destructive as it makes you focus and expand the negatives of the object of your anger. It clouds reason and vision and almost always damages relationships. Anger is almost always a result of not getting ones desires met. Anger should not be repressed but should be replaced with patience.

 

A good book on this is 'How to Solve Our Human Problems' - Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. Even if you are not into Dharma there is information that most people can relate to.

 

Yes...include me in that one....

 

I have to wonder if patience is learned. What do you think?

 

I had a bf that was angry most of the time, it got very annoying. He was not always like that. He went through a major crisis and became fearful of loosing everything, went into a depression, the whole enchillada.

 

I tried to be understanding, although it was causing me to be upset more...he would scream and yell at people while driving, absolutely zero tolerance concerning just about anything...he was breaking my spirit so I bailed.

 

Now was his anger due to this one situation...yes it was life changing, although I think possibly he had much repressed anger from years and years of build up.

 

This is my philosophy, if something or someone delays me (example: someone in the check out line needs a price check or system failures) I believe that it may have been that extra 10 minutes waiting that kept me from having a bad accident of some sort...so I see it as a good thing, as to where others freak out.

 

I see people becoming more and more angry these days...

[pureinheart]

I see every aspect of what you say, and I think there is much logic in what you say.

I think in a way, we might be saying the same thing, the usage rather than what it is.... I do agree there. hence my comment on the 'peaceful protest'.... getting 'angry' enough about a situation, to actively want to do something to change it.

I get angry about The China-Tibet issue.

I get angry about physical violence and cruel discrimination against women. (I'm talking about suppression of the feminine, in barbaric circumstances... Not thinking at Woggle's level of 'stuff' here! )

I get angry about the refusal to recognise the ordination of Nuns in Thailand.

I get angry about all kinds of socially unacceptable issues... paedophilia, violence against children, that kinda stuff....

So yes, I take your point....

But in a 'reduced' state, on a one-to-one basis, I find myself better geared and more precise, and thoughtful about my thoughts, words and actions when interacting with a fellow being....That sounds so holier-than-thou. I apologise, I don't mean to sound pompous or pious....I'm hoping you get what I mean....

if I have to co-exist with another person, and meet with them regularly, it seems a more skilful act to me, to try to avoid resorting to anger in order to resolve a situation between us....

I am thinking specifically of a work colleague with whom I have difficulty working. I am her manager, but she has a strong temperament, and whilst I do not say this to put myself in a better light, by her own admission she is arrogant, and flies off the handle easily, and finds it hard to listen to reason when all she can see is red.....

 

And I think this is one of the best debates I have enjoyed on LS so far, so I thank you for that. It's great fun!

 

 

I agree, your debate with TBF was quite constuctive and I learned a lot, thank you both...very insightful...

 

Concerning your co-worker, this must be difficult. This is the behavior I was describing in one of the above posts...you are fortunate that she can see her own arrogance, my exbf could not. I wonder about the seeing red and not being able to reason...hormones? I was like this also for a time and I found out that I was hyperthyroid...sounds like and adrenalin rush.

[flc]

Yes...include me in that one....

 

I have to wonder if patience is learned. What do you think?

 

I had a bf that was angry most of the time, it got very annoying. He was not always like that. He went through a major crisis and became fearful of loosing everything, went into a depression, the whole enchillada.

 

I tried to be understanding, although it was causing me to be upset more...he would scream and yell at people while driving, absolutely zero tolerance concerning just about anything...he was breaking my spirit so I bailed.

 

Now was his anger due to this one situation...yes it was life changing, although I think possibly he had much repressed anger from years and years of build up.

 

This is my philosophy, if something or someone delays me (example: someone in the check out line needs a price check or system failures) I believe that it may have been that extra 10 minutes waiting that kept me from having a bad accident of some sort...so I see it as a good thing, as to where others freak out.

 

I see people becoming more and more angry these days...

 

Yes I think patience can be learned but like most things in your personality making changes is not easy.

 

I am a strong type A, very aggressive and this has helped me a lot in my business life but had a negative effect on my relationship and kids. My job involves managing complex projects and completing them ontime and on budget. Being intensly focused on time and removing obsticals bleeds into my personal life where patience is more important. I have takne up medidation to try and slow myself down after my work day is finished I also exercise intensly as a way to release negative energy. I have worked with my GF to understand that when I come home from work I need an hour or so to decompress, I think I am doing better but still have a way to go.

[TaraMaiden]

Cultivating patience is a difficult task, but you can deliberately test yourself by using the longest queue, and when stuck in traffic jams, practising acceptance....

 

You deliberately put yourself into a situation where you are at the mercies and whims of other people...the checkout assistant and all the shoppers in front of you, every single other driver and road-user, and occasionally, the defective traffic lights and the young police officer desperately trying to make sense of it all....

you place yourself, or find yourself in situations where extrication would be difficult, then you simply stay, relax, watch, breathe and let it all roll in front of you, without commentary, without judgement, without criticism, without bias.....

 

It's a brilliant exercise....