It happens to the best of us...

[mandrews1119]

Right On!! I was wondering if I was out on an island all alone in my thinking here! I agree, and there IS a difference in "waiting", "bettering yourself", and so many of the other opinons and emotions posted here. Some folks think it takes strength to walk away, but it also takes strength to hold on - to try to make things better in a NEW relationship with the same love. Thank you for your posts, it has given me renewed confidence and strength to maintaining 'no contact' and whatever else my s/o may need to heal before we may create the opportunity to try again!!

[monkey]

It's just so difficult when your having a no contact situation, my situation is an email only one & sometimes i find myself asking questions as well as saying the things she wants to hear, my work, my therapy etc. From hour to hour my thought processes change from feeling very optimistic about the future & reconciliation to what ifs, its emotionally tyring.

 

Things are said in the heat of the moment & even when no time as elapsed & space hasn't done it's magic, this isn't denial, it's something we all do in all situations. I mailed her today because he said i can once a week, i wonder though if she would mail me if i didn't! It's about patience & when your feeling inpatient i suppose you just have to post on here. Is there ever a 'day' that comes when that chance arrives!! I've said before, it's a fine line between giving space because you love them & wanting to do the best to gain their respect & make you closer & space making them think that you're getting on with life & forgetting them. Make them realise how you feel, that you won't quit, but without pushing & questioning all the times.

GOOD LUCK TO US ALL.

[RobertoPNW]

Originally posted by monkey

Is there ever a 'day' that comes when that chance arrives!! I've said before, it's a fine line between giving space because you love them & wanting to do the best to gain their respect & make you closer & space making them think that you're getting on with life & forgetting them. Make them realise how you feel, that you won't quit, but without pushing & questioning all the times.

GOOD LUCK TO US ALL.

 

You just have to watch carefully, but act coy and flirtatious. Don't jump at the opportunity, the SO will see right thru this. Be confident, be the person she fell in love with. She knows everthing else.

[mandrews1119]

Well said, Monkey!!

I agree with you 100%! When you love someone, you persevere and work on it, you don't just quit.! That is especially so in long term relationships, I believe. It takes what it takes, but there is a strength and power in the renewal of love and the triumph of reuniting that is as strong as any other phase of love. Often that means that one person usually has to have the strength to persevere until the other decides to try, but sometimes that is what love is about. I, too am waiting and trying to do more of the right things than the wrong ones. It is said that time does not heal, but healing takes time. I do not want to live a life of "what ifs", kicking myself because we didn't try - and I mean that from both points of view, not just mine. If time out is what she needs right now to sort things out, miss me (hopefully) or reconsider walking out, as painful as it is, so be it. If we do reconcile, we will be stronger for it. Best of luck to you and all of us who "stay the course". A study was taken for a book on reconciling (I'll have the title next time) and the #1 regret for most of the people who didn't get back together was that they didn't feel they tried hard enough before finally moving on, and that given more or better communication, they felt maybe the outcome could have been different. Food for thought.

[monkey]

I think now i have realised that time just means time . My gf has told me she doesn't love me & i'm so upset & emotional. All i have done was have an anxiety problem. Before i returned to England from America (I followed her to her job) to get treatment, she said we'd be together soon & space would do us good & wrote me a nice letter & everything. This was Dec 1st.

Now she says she needs a lot longer to get over it, she helped me with my panic attacks it was stressfull for her & wants me to let go & find someone else. Her parents are angry with me because how i made her feel, like i enjoyed it!!

She says she was with me when she didn't want to be, to help me.

I feel decieved & lied to but i love her. Our plan was for me to return in March but now it's not looking good..

If she was ill i'd have looked after her & it would have been genuine & brought us closer!

I will monitor the situation & mail her occasionaly, she was the one that always said to be positive & never say never! I'm gutted.

[mandrews1119]

Hey Monkey,

Sorry to hear about your predicament. Keep the faith, there are good days and bad days here. Once you have made the commitment to see it through, that seems to be the hardest time to deal with. I'm saying there was love involved in your relationship, and that you don't just walk away from, even though some people seem to walk easier than others. Looking forward to the positive, I'd say your s/o is really stressed out and needs a little recovery time. sometimes to get around things, women give you the coldest shoulder - it helps them make distance and reduce guilt, I suppose. The best thing is that you have recovered to a significant degree for the anxiety attacks, and are trying to be strong. I would never say put her out of your mind, but I will say do what you need to do to cope and to maintain. It seems that as soon as you beging to put things out of your "pain zone" - that that is when the dumpers seem to return. Prepare yourself for whatever may come from her by being as strong and as complete as you can.

[NEONINK]

You eventually fall into the Senior category with a certain amount of posts, I think. What Moi was referencing was the folks that waste 3 years of their life wishing and pining and hoping for "the One" to finally come to their senses and return to them.

 

Experience tells us, after 3 years, you see them again, and say, "What the heck was I thinking?" right before you kick yourself in the butt for missing out on life for 3 years sitting home, chain smoking, writing letters and love poems and throwing them away.

 

I think your insightful posts show you aren't "desperate" and insanely swimming against the current.

 

Well, after off and on again relationship for the last 7 months, I finally ended it. Do I hope the "Other" comes to their senses and realizes what they've lost? You betcha!

 

But in the meantime, do I hope to not form any bad habits, take care of my health and mental state? You betcha.

 

In the meantime, Am I going to get up and go to work everyday, hope to find something to do on Friday night other than watch TV, hope to meet new friends and maybe even cross paths with "The Real One"? Oh Yeah.

 

I would go crazy otherwise, not that I'm far from it now.

 

I finally went to see a counselor, not a bad idea if you find yourself "Stuck" or obsessing!!! I asked my counselor, will this person finally come to their sense, apologize, realize my worth, and fix what was broken?

 

Her answer was probably no. People don't necessarily think alike. Her thoughts are not my thoughts, my thoughts are not hers. Everyone is different. Just because I would do something one way, doesn't mean you or anyone would do it the same.

 

Sometimes I wish it were so, though.

 

.......

Watch your thoughts;

they become words.

 

Watch your words;

they become actions.

 

Watch your actions;

they become habits.

 

Watch your habits;

they become character.

 

Watch your character;

it becomes your destiny.

[mandrews1119]

Hey out there,

 

Any new thoughts for this thread? I agree that stresses, hurt and pain can add to the downfall of many relationships, and then the s/o must have time to release and recover before reconciliation can begin, if at all. All related stories, including success stories are welcome here.

[real49]

In my many years of experiencing many relationships where I was "in love" and I got hurt, I can tell you this.....

If there is ever a chance of reconciliation, in most cases it will not happen until you've reached that final stage of acceptance

and have moved on. Painful as it is to give up hope for a particular situation, that is the way it has to be until closure is accomplished.

 

Success story? How about this one. 15 years ago, I started seeing a extremely intelligent and very beautiful woman while in school. She was much younger than I and she had personal issues related to numerous "bad things" that had happened to her from other men and family members. She was attached to me but, secondary to her issues, could not accomplish some areas that go along with a normal relationship. I was a patient, caring, loving male to her but - you know what?

Being mister perfect for her is not always what someone needs all the time. We stopped seeing each other and I was left devastated. I became even more devastated when she started seeing other men and her problems with certain functions in relationships got better.

 

I stayed in love with that woman for I don't know how many years..... and I stayed angry over the fact that she couldn't give to me in a relationship that she could give to "less deserving" males. What ended up happening was that I hurt a lot of other women because I couldn't move on. I kept thinking one day she'll see that I was right for her.

 

Time moved on, we stayed friends but I secretly harbored hope that she would "see the light". I secretly harbored that hope up until the day she got married to a really nice guy almost 6 years ago. Then I started to accept things for what they had turned out to be. That is when it got better.

 

Today, she and I are very good, long time friends. She is happily married to a man that is good to her. I am having dinner with her tonight as an old friend. She is still "drop dead" gorgeous and has a mind that is extremely sharp and interesting. But I value her as a friend now and it is comforting to me that I can still enjoy her company and caring, and enjoy it for a long time to come. It wasn't until I accepted things and tried not to change them that I could really start to enjoy my friendship with her. No, I didn't end up with her but somehow I feel I'm getting the best of her, for me, all the same.

 

I realized through her that there is something in me that attracts women in some sort of emotional need. I'm calm and caring but it's easy for me to feel in control of a relationship by feeling that this person "really needs me" but then I don't ever consider what that person is returning to me. I've broken up with a lot of people over the years and only after accepting that it is over that I either realized that this person added nothing to my life at all and it's best to stay away from them or, this person can still continue to contribute to my life by being a very good friend.

 

Nothing becomes clear until you accept what has happened. That doesn't mean you have to a stop loving them but sometimes it means that you have to change the way you love them and remove the "need" for them. At any rate, it always hurts, no two ways around it.

[SoleMate]

You hangers-on need to comprehend that your refusal to accept reality is the scariest thing about you and the number one reason someone would never want you back. People who can't understand and accept reality as it is, and who refuse to believe it when others say their relationships were not good or enjoyable are not good people to have relationships with.

 

Understand this, the man who would 'love a certain woman more than anybody else' would be the man who completely understand her and her feelings, not a man who would insist that HE knows the woman's feelings despite her telling him the contrary.

 

Moimeme, you were 100% right on in this. The guys didn't seem to take it too well or even understand it, mostly. (I changed your pronouns to make it clearer.) I agree, I feel absolutely frightened when I hear a man say, or worse yet, imply through his actions that HE knows MY mind and that he knows I really do love him or really should love him. That's what I think of as "John Hinckley" behavior.

 

How many times on Loveshack do we hear men saying, "I love her so much, I am so lonely without her, she completes me, when she sees how ardently I yearn for her and how desperately I desire her she will have to realize that she is mine."? YUCK!!!! I am gagging. And yet plenty of guys think that this is normal, desirable, romantic love. I hope that 169 page PDF about women mentions this little issue.

 

The biggest turnon is when a man ASKS what I feel and what I want, and LISTENS. And then gives me (at least) some of what I want. Yeah, we women are sure confusing.

[mandrews1119]

Hello!

I don't think that your posts apply to everyone who is "hanging on" in my opinion. I think that people fall into different categories, and that things are different in each case.

[mandrews1119]

Sometimes a separation (even of years) is needed in a relationship because there have been too many stresses, hurts or pains. reality also is accepting that there were mistakes made, and being able to correct them. Often two people need to be apart to let some of the hurt and pain change or subside. I happen to think that there is something to be desired in the mentality of people who do not believe in the power of love, or the ability of people to grow and change for the better. How else do we account for the number of people who do reconcile and reunite? There is NO excuse for harassing, or any of the negative behavior associated with some cases, I agree. No one knows better than a person themselves whether or not they love or feel any way - and should not be so presumptious as to think you "know" someone loves you. That is not where I or a lot of people who BELIEVE in love are coming from. your posts make it sound as if you feel that anyone who waits or tries to reconcile is some kind of psycho. Perhaps it is your own experiences that color your thinking, but in any case I wish you would make it clear that you are not painting everyone with the same brush.

[SoleMate]

...some kind of psycho. Perhaps it is your own experiences that color your thinking...

 

[font=century gothic]Hey Mike - or Mark - or Moe - or whoever you are - thanks for bringing up my spell in the locked ward. I've been trying to put it behind me and I don't appreciate having it dragged out into the open like this. I'll have you know that I take my meds as prescribed and there have been no incidents for AT LEAST five weeks. But I guess that record doesn't count for people like you, does it...[/font]

 

<slap slap>

 

OK, she's back. ALL I was trying to say...and some days, on some topics with you fellas, I don't know why I try...is:

 

A man who insists that HE knows a woman's feelings and desires better than she does herself is one scary puppy.

 

I did NOT say:

 

"People who attempt to reconcile with former partners are psycho."

 

OR

 

"Love is not powerful."

 

OR

 

"Nobody can ever grow and change."

 

Please, one of you folks, do SOMETHING to let me know you grasp this point. Do you see the meta-irony of your reply? YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. You're responding to something that was NOT SAID. Maybe it got said in your head, not in mine.

[caretoomuch]

I think that it is better said ...

 

'Anyone who claims to know another persons feelings better than that person is incorrect'. This is not a male specific trait, but rather a reaction to the loss - part of the grief process.

 

Every case is different - in my case I accept and understand why my ex left, but in examining the reasons i see that love is not lost but just hurt and with care and time this love MAY flower again. yes she does not love me now, we are friends, but when you look at what was and the reasons for it not being anymore then i feel that hanging on COULD produce a reconciliation. i am not saying that she still loves me, rather love is hurt but can survive.

 

cheers

[NotaBadGuy]

Solemate and Moimeme,

 

I, as a male, understand and agree with both of the women. To reconcile is to grow in ourselves and in our love for our significant other. Believe me, it is not easy and no I am not discounting reconciliation or getting back together. But I do believe that there are boundaries that should not be crossed. Loving someone sometimes entails letting them go in almost every aspect of the word. To sit and love them unconditionally sometimes entails that.

 

To the others, I know what it is like in case you think I am some random poster who decided to side with Solemate and Moimeme. I was married recently, wife left for another man, filed for divorce, and so on. I wanted nothing more than for my marriage to work. But the fact of the matter is, I could have sat and told myself she still wants me, she still loves me and so on. Don't get me wrong, I still hurt and have to deal with the woulds left by this incident. Do I still love and care for the woman? Of course. Do I sit and wait for things to all of a sudden magically reconcile or for her to snap back to reality and see what she is doing? At one time maybe, but now I am back to reality. Believing in love sometimes means accepting reality. Sometimes you have to let everything go to truly love someone and that often entails accepting reality. Reality in this sense is often not the easiest thing to accept and will hurt like hell, but it often times helps define and shape our character. Reality is learning to grow ourselves. Reality is stepping into the darkness of the unknown and not being scared to take that step because you know one of two things will happen - either you will step onto something solid or you will be taught to fly(paraphrased from an author I cannot think of as of now).

 

Waiting on love does not make you a psycho. But why wait? I understand that there may be ramifications and unintended results should you decide to live your life for yourself. Seems as if it is a fear issue. Afraid to move into the next corridor out of the fear of not seeing where the next door may take you. If your woman truly loves and cares about you, she will be back. She does not need you to stand with the orange and red lights flashing on her initial approach, should that be her decision. Unconditionally love her by letting her be. Should she come back, then so be it. If not, know you still unconditionally loved her and always will. A few posts earlier, real49 showed us what unconditional love is, even after 15 years. And what did he gain out of the expereince? A true friend for life. Not a mate, a friend.

 

We can all grow and change no matter whether male or female. And before it is even mentioned, this is by no means a personal attack on anyone or anything that has been said. These are strictly my opinions and should ultimatley be construed as such.

[caretoomuch]

well said ....

 

 

Let go with love and live

[mandrews1119]

I agree, but my point is that there is a difference between letting go with love, caring, hoping, - and obviously unwanted, unwarranted, and often ILLEGAL behavior!! I do not agree with living in a fantasy world of either 'knowing how she feels" or magically hoping she will come back.! Believing in love and having hope MEANS accepting reality and trying to make positive changes no matter HOW it turns out in the end. Maybe you will have a chance to reconcile, maybe not. If you do, and you haven't changed what was wrong, painful, or stressful in the first place, you are probably doomed to make the same errors. but again, that doesn't mean that everyone who believes, waits, or tries to reunite is wrong, or has some case of psychosis, that is the inference I seem to be getting. No more so than someone who chooses to let go because things were too much for them.! that being said, I reiterate my stance that the crazy behavior is just that - CRAZY!! It should not be done or tolerated. I agree with you, Not, - that if she loves you and things work themselves out, then cool. If not, the least you have done is to have made yourself a better person for yourself, and for life, no matter which direction it takes you in. Now as far as what goes on between the two people in between, that is an individual issue. some folks prefer NOT to be in any touch at all, some prefer minimal contact, some want regular contact, it all depends on your individual cases.

 

SoleMate, I think perhaps we actually agree more than disagree. I think it IS actually SICK for anyone to just suppose that they know what another person (male or female) thinks or feels, certainly when it comes to love. It is WRONG to say " I know she loves me..." - because if that were true, there wouldn't have been anything wrong in the first place! Now what direction that takes, well, life ain't always fair, is it? Some folks lose themselves in whatever they need to in order to move on, and it ain't often pretty or nice, especially if you have been dumped. But that's life, dust yourself off and keep going, I say. Often we think that if someone isn't with us, then they are wrong. Not so. Often it is by dating or seeing other people that people learn just how strong a bond they had with that ex and this is what starts a reunion. some people go as far as to get into relationships, or even marriages that they later regret because it wasn't where their heads or hearts were really at, but they needed something to help with the hurt and to do the infamous "moving on". That's life, both sexes can make crazy mistakes and moves, especially when seeking solace. again, in the recovery from those moves that many reconciliations are made. It happens, but nothing is guaranteed and to lose yourself completely in such is to do just that - lose yourself, which I don't advocate. I think aspects of all that has been said here applies, wear the shoe that fits. But there is no room for the out of line behavior you depict, I don't advocate that. And upon that, Sole, I think we agree more than disagree. My apologies if I misunderstood or misrepresented your point.

[lost_in_chgo]

Solemate, let's not make the same mistake of painting everyone here with the same brush. Not everyone is incapable of grasping your point. Some may just disagree. Blind acceptance isn't everything you know....

 

Everyone --

 

My thinking is that people can reconcile and often do.

As a "hanger on" I feel that I am doing what is best for myself. Moving on within an hour is ok for some, but not for me. Not in this situation, though it has been appropriate for me in the past and I have done so.

 

Waiting can be and is for me, extremely difficult. I am in agony at times. But that agony is not solely focused on my ex. It is focused a great deal on my prospects and my future and my fear that I have waited too long to accomplish what I want out of life. That fear drives me to move on. But at the same time I have this overwhelming need to wait and see if the woman I love will return once she has worked thru the aftermath of her divorce. I'm waiting on a woman with financial problems, five kids and a ex in the picture, who is currently dating another man (or maybe on to a second or third I don't know). Everyone tells me to move on. And everyone thinks I was insane for loving her in the first place. Despite all that I hang on. Everyone around me thinks I shouldn't, some say she wasn't worth it. Some say words of encouragement. Some just laugh.

 

This experience has also been very positive for me. As a result of it I have opened up a great deal to family and friends. My relationships with my family, especially my parents have grown dramatically. I've got a new job making 40% more than my previous job, which also open my social outlets more as the company is 100x the size. I'm planning on buying a bigger house than the one I own now. I've lost 50 pounds (20 to go) of weight that I've carried for ten years or more and kept it off for 3 months.

 

And now at the end of five months, I feel that I am a better man and in a better position than when she left. None of these improvements are related to her leaving. Nonetheless I feel that I have much more to offer her than I did before. Yet...she may never see this...as I have little or no direct personal contact with her or our mutual acquaintances. My only contact comes when I initiate it.

 

I've practiced no contact to give her all the room she needs to either forget me or to remember me.

 

No psycho stuff, no projection of my feelings onto her feelings, no stalking, nothing but a single email in the last 3 months.

 

Yet I wait.

My reality is that she is gone and may never come back.

I don't know what her reality is.

 

Yet I wait.

I stepped into the abyss. There is nothing solid here and no wind to fly on. There is only a fog that I cannot see thru. Someday it will clear, and then I will find out what is waiting on the other side. She might be there. Someone else might be there. Or no one at all. But if there is a little guy with a fog machine there and I will kick his ass from one cloud to the next.

 

So I wait.

One day I will wake up and I won't be waiting any more. But that day was not today.

 

In all honesty....I'm not really waiting all the time, just some times...I just haven't gotten over her. And I think that I have good reason to have hope. But I also am well aware that she might never come around.

 

So all in all it's a choice. It's my choice. It's all of our choice.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Imagine if you will that she does come back.

Imagine that we do reconcile and that we are happy.

I know some of you can't allow yourselves to believe in that.

But imagine it.

That would be something.

 

Your results may vary.

[SoleMate]

OK, thanks. Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my rant. I see that many of you do get it. Could you please share your insights with your brothers who do not?

 

And congrats to lostinchicago and others who are using this rude awakening to make other big changes in their lives. That's healthy and it's constructive.

[NEONINK]

Do any of you think there are people out there not capable of love?

 

Not capable of sustaining a loving heart even through adversity?

 

Not willing to go the extra mile and actually feel feelings?

 

I do.

 

I think I've found them in every relationship. Obviously, I'm the common denominator, so I have to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

[monkey]

How enlightening from Chicago there & what mandrews says of positivity coming out of these situations is true. Most people in our situations mabe feel the must change somewhat, either revert back to the person they were or change into a new one & there's no more of an inspiration to do this than the prospect of reconciliation. I feel that changing when it is too late very hard to handle personally, i have said to my s/o thati'm angry that i couldn' t show her whilst i had the chance & was with her, why does it take this seperation, a punch in the face to instigate action. There are times in peoples lives that when they have to change, they do & yes they do it for themselves, but to try & convince there s/o & they need the chance to show this. I'm getting my anxiety therapy, i'm alcohol free for nearly 4 months, & am into yoga. This is for me & us but why didn't i do it then, i'm so angry cos she's the girl of my dreams, the love of my life & i can't handle not being able to prove this change.

Everyones situation being different, i personally would find it difficult to want to get back with someone who has cheated on me or fleeced me for money or used me in some way, but others may not. I've been lyed to & decieved by my s/o & due to this temporary situation being my chance, i was told & then being told that it is more than a temporary situation, i hope she sees what she has done & can live with herself, i couldn't. Although i understand the reasons & believe she thought she was doing the right thing , this is why i love her still after this.

Everyone has hardships in relationships, my grandparents were together 72 years & i dare say they had 1 or 2 fallouts & i know they seperated 3 times, so while we breath there is hope & there has to be 1 party in the relationship who will persevere & not give up, or relationships like my grandparents wouldn't exist.

There isn't anything wrong with saying that you love someone so much, many relationships that are mundane with no affection, cry out for this attention, although i agree, there's a fine line.

No-one is deluded here, just they see a light & a hope they want to hold on to & am sure we'll know if that light goes out, there are the deluded people that even when some girl is getting married, they'l be at the wedding, striking horror into the brides face when their eyes meet, like in the movies, stalkers, but people have feelings & some are hard to let go of, just because one person wants it, what of the others feelings!!

Love is a state of mind & it does take time to get out any bad memories or ill-feeling, but after that & if a change has taken place, there's no reason why those no quitters can't be rewarded for there perseverence. They may even thank you for waiting for them, it's just so damn painfull, when you know what you must do to change & along with the positives that she once loved you for, i picture a perfect reconciliation. THIS HAPPENS..

[real49]

NEONINK-

 

Yes, I certainly do think there are people not capable of love. Not capable because of something that has happened to them that leaves them in perpetual need, but unable to give. I've encountered a few and I'm in the process of dealing with one now. They really can't fathom other people's feelings because their own needs dominate their thinking process.

 

Maybe you, like me, unconsciously gravitate towards the emotional needy types who appear to need you so much that you feel safe and needed so much, that the possibility that this person might not need you in the future never crosses your mind. You feel in control of the relationship because your NEEDED so much.

 

If you have no problem attracting women, think back to encountering one that maybe doesn't need you so much; wasn't she kind of scary? Like, here is someone capable of returning something to you and you don't feel so much in control..... I may be speaking for myself. Maybe that's not your situation or....

 

Maybe your hanging around in the wrong bar to meet women.

 

Which brings me to a personal theory about what really is going on in this thread. It's that old "Knight in Shiny White Armour" trap that men fall into. You want to rescue a confused needy girl. You know what's best for this perosn. If the confused needy girl happens to be really pretty and has learned how to make your toes tingle in bed.... then, look out Sir Galahad! If that confused needy girl dumps you because her needs go beyond what your able to supply, then there goes the Knight Errant, driven crazy by love, running through the wilderness screaming his fool head off.

 

To be honest, I haven't read all the posts here.... I tried to post earlier to from relaying my years of experience as someone who felt compelled to "rescue" needy types and my role in the resulting pain it causes you. Nothing got better with anyone until I did one thing: accept the situation for what it was. If the person doesn't love you anymore than do what it takes to balance back out the chemicals in your brain that have you addicted to that love. If the person has the potential to be a good friend (I had a wonderful time last night with a woman that 10 years ago I desperately tried to "rescue" but who rescued herself and is now a good friend) then gradually get yourself in the position to be a friend. If the person is such that she cannot even offer you anything remotely close to friendship, then get away from her.

 

So many of you have mentioned how you took positive steps to improve what you felt was lacking in you after self-examination when the relationship was over. But you need to do it for yourself and not for the other person who simply may never love you back. I'm still working on myself but at the moment, it's for myself and not for someone else.

 

Good luck.

[NEONINK]

"They really can't fathom other people's feelings because their own needs dominate their thinking process. "

 

 

That would make them narcissistic. That would make me a fool.

[real49]

Well, I certainly don't think your a fool...

 

what do you think is going on?