Are Paternity Tests Insulting?

[Woggle]

I already said I've never cheated woggle.

 

And I don't even know why you're arguing; you know it would be a trust issue on your part. You'd admitted that much. The premise -once again for the crowd - is to ask for one with no reason to doubt and is it insulting. Yes, that would be insulting.

 

Yes it is a trust issue and there is nothing wrong with that. Trusting a women for a man is like playing russian roulette with your life.

[troggleputty]

How about you prove your love to your wife - oh wait YOU CAN'T because you don't.

 

Bank it and snip the path if you see life as a game of Russian roulette and stop projecting your fear on people who give you no reason.

 

We all take a risk in relationships - ALL. Men and women.

 

 

LOL. You obviously don't understand basic mammalian biology, do you?

 

How exactly is it possible for a woman to carry a child which is NOT hers (unless she has had in vitro fertilization from an egg donor, which she would obviously know about?)

 

The man takes the risk that the child is not his. The woman does not.

 

Time to brush the dust off your bio textbook dear. You need a refresher course.

[troggleputty]

The premise of this thread is that the hypothetical woman in question being asked for a paternity test has given no reason to believe she might have cheated, and their relationship is long-term and monogamous.

 

Sigh. No, the woman is NOT being "asked for a paternity test." The woman doesn't have to participate at all. Nor can she stop the man from voluntarily submitting to such a test. And she certainly can't stop the man from swabbing his child's DNA from inside the child's cheek. He has the absolute legal right to do that, after all, the child is "his," isn't it?

 

And again, you commit the logical fallacy of basing your opposition to such testing on the notion that the man has no reason to believe the woman has cheated on him. So what? Plenty of women cheat and are very successful at concealing it. It is the DNA test which, if he proves not to be the father, provides the conclusive evidence of cheating.

 

How can you criticize the man for attempting to get the evidence of that which you claim he must first have to justify the very test which provides the evidence of its own necessity?

 

Oh I know why. Because you have difficulty thinking in strictly logical terms.

[troggleputty]

Your wife proves herself everyday and you still can't give credit where credit is due so don't even bother singing your little song and dance number for this one.

 

Bank it and snip the path - then if they turn up pregnant, you have grounds for asking for DNA testing.

 

 

sara you have an extreme amount of hostility towards men, you keep saying snip it, snip it, who are you IRL, lorena bobbitt?

 

Please respond: how many men have you cheated on?

[sally4sara]

LOL. You obviously don't understand basic mammalian biology, do you?

 

How exactly is it possible for a woman to carry a child which is NOT hers (unless she has had in vitro fertilization from an egg donor, which she would obviously know about?)

The man takes the risk that the child is not his. The woman does not.

 

Time to brush the dust off your bio textbook dear. You need a refresher course.

 

Well you just pulled that scenario out of thin air didn't you. I never said anything of the sort. Sounds to me like you're upset about biological facts and your inability to get pregnant. Not mine or any other woman's fault you can't do it. Its kinda like saying you have no responsibility to tell women you have HPV because its not like you can get ovarian cancer.

 

And this STILL makes it about trust issues. You're right women can't be duped into unwittingly raising a kid that isn't ours. To ask for a DNA test because you don't want to be unwittingly raising a kid that isn't yours IS to suggest she had sex with someone else.

 

Again - is asking for a paternity test when having been given no reason to think infidelity is going on an insult? Yes it is.

[sally4sara]

sara you have an extreme amount of hostility towards men, you keep saying snip it, snip it, who are you IRL, lorena bobbitt?

 

Please respond: how many men have you cheated on?

 

I have an extreme hostility to stupidity. Thanks for playing that role tonight.

 

I ALREADY ANSWERED IT TWO TIMES.

[troggleputty]

If you are not cheating why do you have a problem proving it?

 

 

More to the point, why should anyone believe sara when she says she's not a cheater?

 

Cheaters lie. Lots of people who cheat deny being cheaters. All that sara's statement "I am not a cheater" proves is that she is either 1) telling the truth, and not a cheater; or 2) telling a lie, and IS a cheater.

 

Now, it doesn't really matter to me if sara is or is not a cheater since I'm not in a relationship with her. And it certainly shouldn't matter to sara if woggle or troggle or anyone else chooses to have a paternity test done of one of their children--again, because we are not in a relationship with sara.

 

Yet it does matter to sara. Very very very much.

 

And that's sara's issue, and no one else's.

 

Oh by the way my understanding is that sara has at least one ex husband and therefore is certainly no "expert" on relationships.

 

Are you sara?

[sally4sara]

Sigh. No, the woman is NOT being "asked for a paternity test." The woman doesn't have to participate at all. Nor can she stop the man from voluntarily submitting to such a test. And she certainly can't stop the man from swabbing his child's DNA from inside the child's cheek. He has the absolute legal right to do that, after all, the child is "his," isn't it?

 

And again, you commit the logical fallacy of basing your opposition to such testing on the notion that the man has no reason to believe the woman has cheated on him. So what? Plenty of women cheat and are very successful at concealing it. It is the DNA test which, if he proves not to be the father, provides the conclusive evidence of cheating.

 

How can you criticize the man for attempting to get the evidence of that which you claim he must first have to justify the very test which provides the evidence of its own necessity?

 

Oh I know why. Because you have difficulty thinking in strictly logical terms.

 

This was also already covered. Any test you do on your own is not valid in the court. you're going to have to state your claim and the court will arrange a test in an approved, unbiased lab conducted by trained people.

And no, unless you're married and on that birth certificate, you cannot make off with some woman's kid and have it medically tested in a lab somewhere without her consent. We call that kidnapping.

[troggleputty]

Yup, and as I chimed in waaayyy back at the beginning of this subject. If you've been given a reason to question their integrity I can totally see needing a DNA test. But really, if you've been given reason to not trust - why are you still still around dipping your wick and risking kids?

 

 

Frankly sara, you are SO defensive about this entire topic (given your proclamation of "innocence") and SO castratingly hostile towards men ("snip snip snip" etc.), and given the fact that you've been through at least one failed marriage yourself; NO ONE getting into a relationship with you would have any reason to really trust you.

 

It is YOUR own behavior which leads to the lack of trust, sara. I think your partner would be well advised to get a paternity test if you have children with him.

 

Wouldn't he sara? Isn't that what you're afraid he'll do someday?

[troggleputty]

Because I'm not the Virgin Mother and I'm not cheating. I've never cheated.

 

 

Oh really? And how can you prove that?

[sally4sara]

More to the point, why should anyone believe sara when she says she's not a cheater?

 

Cheaters lie. Lots of people who cheat deny being cheaters. All that sara's statement "I am not a cheater" proves is that she is either 1) telling the truth, and not a cheater; or 2) telling a lie, and IS a cheater.

 

what is the point of entering into a debate if you're just going to call folks a liar when you don't get the responses you want?

 

Judge and jury? Gotta be right by any means possible?

How narcissistic of you.

[sally4sara]

Frankly sara, you are SO defensive about this entire topic (given your proclamation of "innocence") and SO castratingly hostile towards men ("snip snip snip" etc.), and given the fact that you've been through at least one failed marriage yourself; NO ONE getting into a relationship with you would have any reason to really trust you.

 

It is YOUR own behavior which leads to the lack of trust, sara. I think your partner would be well advised to get a paternity test if you have children with him.

 

Wouldn't he sara? Isn't that what you're afraid he'll do someday?

 

I can't deliver anymore kids thanks for assuming. And my partner trusts me implicitly.

And where do you get off telling someone to study up on biology when you can't tell the difference between a vasectomy and castration?

 

I'm done with your foolish tripe.

[troggleputty]

Exactly, what does it say about the relationship that my character be questioned with no reason? Got doubts, resolve them rather than risk procreating with someone you can't trust. There has to be some ownership of your reasons. You don't trust - own it.

 

 

What it says, is that something about your character, i.e. the way you have behaved in the relationship, has given your partner cause to question your integrity.

 

Alternatively, if you chose a partner who was a psychotic paranoid, well then that's the result of your choice too, right?

 

Either way, the man has the absolute right to have himself DNA tested and to have his child DNA tested. If you don't like it, grow up.

[sweetjasmine]

LOL, who's the "genius" anyway? You think simply because it's possible to have fathered a child, that any man who may have had sex with a woman during her fertile period MUST have been the father?

 

No. You completely and utterly missed the point.

 

If you had unprotected sex with your partner while she was fertile and she then gets pregnant, the only way to prove you're NOT the father is to have a paternity test. Consequently any guy who says, "I'm not the father, why won't you believe me?" in that situation is full of it. He could very well be the father and he literally has no way of knowing.

 

If she had sex with another man around the same time, she has no way of knowing, either.

 

And they're not permitted to actually determine which one of them it was.

 

Hey, buddy! Do me a favor and find where I used the words "permission" or "allowed" in my post. Thank you! :)

 

Or is it your contention that we are supposed to just accept it when a woman claims she hasn't screwed around with anyone else?

 

If you're in a healthy relationship where you trust your partner and there aren't any suspicious things that would make you think they're cheating, then, yes, it's normal to take your partner's word for it.

 

Just read around these boards a little bit.

 

Hmm, yes, I've never seen a thread on this board about a man cheating. It's only women who cheat and lie.

 

A man is NOT entitled to demand a paternity test to determine whether he's the father;

 

You keep using words I've never used.

 

A man is certainly entitled to demand a paternity test. That doesn't mean it won't damage the relationship he has with his partner in a situation where he has absolutely no reason to suspect cheating.

 

yet the woman IS allowed to demand such a test when she alleges a particular man might be the father of her child?

 

If a woman were ever to attempt to use legal avenues to demand child support payments from a man, she would be required to prove paternity.

 

To try to prevent someone from exercising their legal, reproductive rights is controlling. So stop it ladies. Just stop it.

 

 

Who said jack f-ing sh-t about stopping people from exercising their rights?

 

"Your partner would probably be hurt and upset" is not equivalent to "X should not be allowed to do Y". Stop equivocating.

 

You know I think before any women were permitted to post in this thread, they should be required to first state truthfully how many men they've cheated on in their lives. Only women who can honestly say they've NEVER cheated on a man should even be allowed to post in this thread. The rest are pure hypocrites.

 

So, what about it? Ever cheated? How many times?

 

Zero.

 

Why is it "irrational" and "paranoid" to be suspicious if your partner gives cause for suspicion?

 

Let's try this again.

 

THE HYPOTHETICAL IN THE OP WAS ABOUT A CASE WHERE THERE IS NO REASON TO SUSPECT CHEATING.

 

If the woman hadn't given the man cause for concern, he wouldn't be concerned.

 

Again, that's PATENTLY UNTRUE. THE OP SAYS IT APPLIES EVEN WHEN HIS PARTNER HAS GIVEN NO REASON TO SUSPECT CHEATING.

 

so many of you ladies cheat at the drop of a hat

 

So many human beings cheat at the drop of a hat. What's your point?

 

Most rapists are men. I better pepper spray that guy walking down the street to be safe and give myself peace of mind.

 

that it's more than possible that a man may rightfully insist on a paternity test because he's been burned by a cheating woman in a prior relationship.

 

Then he has trust issues to resolve.

 

I've never cheated but I've been cheated on, yet I trust my partner.

 

Now that would be a legitimate reason for a man to request such a test--prior bad experiences with women who've cheated--and baby, you have only your "sistahs" to blame.

 

That's right, I'm responsible for the actions of my entire gender.

 

If a woman assumes every guy talking to her is a potential rapist, then that's YOUR fault, baby. Right?

[Woggle]

I have actually heard hyper militant feminists say that every man is a potential rapist so there are women who feel that way. My mother used to tell me all the time that I would grow up one day to rape a woman yet despite my obvious issues I have never been violent towards a woman. Will women here condemn these gross generalizations?

[Stung]

How many women in this thread who are so opposed to paternity tests can say they have never cheated on a man?

 

I have never cheated on anyone and I place an extremely high value on integrity. I have already stated that I am not terribly opposed to a hospital or insurance company requesting paternity tests as a matter of policy, and that men who have reason to mistrust a woman should probably ask for a paternity test. But yes, if my husband had demanded one when our son was born, I would have been personally insulted and felt it was a slap in the face, and I have already stated my reasons why.

[troggleputty]

It is an invasive procedure for women and not so for men. Completely an out-patient, no overnight stay for a man so....

 

if you're all about preserving your reproductive rights as a man. Bank it and snip the path. No woman will ever be able to give you an unwanted child and you'll know damn well any pregnancy she has isn't yours.

 

Geez put your aggressive little castrating man-scissors away, will you?

 

You're very creepy with these constant comments about snipping men's privates.

 

What's the matter with you actually? Why do you hate men so much?

[sweetjasmine]

Will women here condemn these gross generalizations?

 

Every time you ask those questions, you ignore the responses, so why should anyone bother giving you an answer?

[Mr White]

Reading through all the defensive posts makes me want to consider paternity tests more and more...

 

I'd be much happier with a more adequate reaction such as "Honey, you are an idiot, a complete moron, but whatever makes you happy - I'll do the test".

 

That would be the way to dissolve the situation and make me realize what an idiot I am indeed, and then be even more devoted to the mother and the child.

 

But every time I see the grand proclamations of self-righteousness, I smell something fishy. Not necessarily in terms of legitimate doubts about the paternity, but in terms of a pretty despotic attitude that would blow up the marriage by itself, if that was happening in my marriage. I am particularly sick of the sense of ownership women have over kids. It takes two to make a kid, and it's not YOUR kid. It is your AND somebody else's kid, and that somebody else is not a voiceless sperm donor or check provider.

[Woggle]

Every time you ask those questions, you ignore the responses, so why should anyone bother giving you an answer?

 

Despite what I say I keep searching for hope that not all women are what I feel they are. I don't want to be this negative towards the opposite sex but I can't ignore reality.

[troggleputty]

...oh and by the way sara, you DO realize that a man can snip his privates, and bank sperm, and that will do NOTHING AT ALL to prevent his wife from having cheating on him and having another man's baby? You do realize that even if a man follows your helpful suggestion, and only has children by artificial insemination, that does not stop his wife from screwing other men?

 

A little remedial mammalian biology would probably do you a world of good.

[sally4sara]

I have actually heard hyper militant feminists say that every man is a potential rapist so there are women who feel that way. My mother used to tell me all the time that I would grow up one day to rape a woman yet despite my obvious issues I have never been violent towards a woman. Will women here condemn these gross generalizations?

 

It is not relevant to the topic -start a new thread.

[Woggle]

It is not relevant to the topic -start a new thread.

 

The other posters are the ones who brought up the part about assuming all men are rapists.

[Stung]

I have actually heard hyper militant feminists say that every man is a potential rapist so there are women who feel that way. My mother used to tell me all the time that I would grow up one day to rape a woman yet despite my obvious issues I have never been violent towards a woman. Will women here condemn these gross generalizations?

 

The only reason I brought up that scenario was exactly to point out what a gross and offensive generalization it was. Can you not see that claiming all men are potential rapists is a flip side to claiming ALL women are potentially cheating on their husbands and forcing their husbands through ongoing gross deception to raise a child not biologically theirs? Is that not a gross and offensive generalization? Yes, some women have done that, it is a sad and terrible thing with negative repercussions. Some men are also rapists, also a sad and terrible thing with very negative repercussions.

[sally4sara]

It takes two to make a kid, and it's not YOUR kid. It is your AND somebody else's kid, and that somebody else is not a voiceless sperm donor or check provider.

 

Yeah, I got my check. $17.55 for the last two months - oh boy do I have him over a barrel! Look at him be a daddy!