Are Paternity Tests Insulting?

[sally4sara]

Sara, with all respect, it sounds like you don't actually have any children with your current husband, so this entire discussion is not even an issue for you on a personal basis.

 

Why is it so important for you?

 

So now I'm lying about my son huh? Predicted that one....

[Green]

First off Sally with current technology your husband could have got a DNA test with out you ever knowing.

 

Second Troggle did have the spirit of what I was saying correct even though people kept trying to argue my original post.

 

I believe that Paternity tests are a good idea as POLICY... even if you have no mistrust for the specific girl you are dating or married with.

 

My gf and I have had discussions about pre-nup agreements. If I were to marry one day I would plan for it to last forever... but I have a prenup because I know that there is a chance of a divorce... and if there is a divorce I want to KNOW what would happen.

 

The same goes for my policy on DNA testing... even if I trust the baby is from me... I want to KNOW the baby is from me because I realize that there is a chance I am a person being cheated on who has no idea.

 

I don't know how accurate this thread is on showing what womens actual thoughts are on Paternity tests... but I am guessing it is pretty accurate.

 

For me it was a big fight I was not expecting with my gf when we had a conversation prompted by a TV show we were watching. I told my gf as a matter of Policy I would get a DNA test on any child I fathered... She was very mad... said stuff worse then what I read in this thread.... In the end I never backed down from my position... Yet she continues to date and have sex with me. We are still in a seriouse relationship.

 

I do not plan to ever bring this up with her again, and unless I suspect cheating I will just wait until the child is born and get a paternity test secretly as to not enter another stupid fight. I won't lie to her, I will just say that I refuse to ever talk about it again... which really we both agreed to as we had a fight that lasted hours a few days ago on this exact stupid topic. If I do get a paternity test when the baby is first born and I am married I'm pretty sure the law would still make me take care of the baby even if it wasn't from me... So I don't get what you women are so afraid of.

 

Men already are forced to trust women to great degrees. A woman can abort a baby with out consent from the father. A woman can give up her baby for addoption with out consent from her husband.

 

For any of the women out there arguing again Paternity tests being used as policy... do you also argue against prenups as policy for marriage? If not please apply the same logic

 

Finaly I will say that as a man you do have to protect yourself both through prenups and paternity tests ect.

[sally4sara]

Actually, it depends on the state you live in. In most states, if the father cannot be found, the court will "serve notice" of your intent to adopt out to the father by publication. They will make you, or your attorney, if you have one, publish in the newspaper for something like 30 days. If the father doesn't respond (or show up), then the court will not need the father's permission and you may proceed with the adoption.

 

If one parent wants the test and the other does not, then a court order is necessary. If no paternal rights have been established, you do not have any legal right to take a child without its parent's consent in to a clinic for any kind of testing. You DO have every right to demand the testing (the court will do one if support is being contested even if YOU didn't want to submit a sample) if you are being sought after through the courts for child support, but if there is no court order, you must get the child's establish guardian to consent with the test. Even if you do this and are married to the mother and through it you find the kid is not yours, most state courts will do their own paternity test for the divorce and custody procedure you seek as a result of your own test results. They will want to make sure the test was run by an unbiased venue rather than just run your possibly biased test results.

 

Its like saying you can take any child at any given time and get some medical test run on it. I'm sure you realize why this is illegal.

 

Take whatever approach you wish. Your OP asked if it was insulting and since you already got in a fight over the subject, you already knew it was.

 

You can look all of this up if you don't believe me.

[nowomanocry]

still you peeps on this thread lol

 

Give up - it is a close lmao

[lino]

So, basically what I’m asking is if you guys think it is acceptable for a husband or boyfriend who doesn’t suspect cheating to just go ahead and get a paternity test as a matter of policy and safeguarding?

 

 

I don't know what is acceptable or not for others in this case but if I was in a relationship with a girl and I didn't suspect her of cheating then I wouldn't have any intentions of getting a paternity test if we had a kid. I wouldn't see the point in it.

[Woggle]

I will give the women here the benefit of the doubt and assume that the ones who say they never cheat are telling the truth. That being said I wish they would be more understanding of the fact that many women out there today are not trustworthy. It's the complete lack of understanding for where men are coming from that really gets to me. Even if you don't agree can't you at least understand why a man would feel this way?

[troggleputty]

So now I'm lying about my son huh? Predicted that one....

 

 

Not at all. I never called you a liar, I think it's unfair for you to attribute something that I never said.

 

However, what you have said is that you have an "ex." And now you are currently married. But the way you referred to your son was as "my" son, not "our" son, with respect to your current husband.

 

Many people have stepchildren and because you specifically referred to your son as "my" son, not "our" son, when complimenting your current husband on his parenting skills, I naturally assumed you used the phrase, "my" son, because he was a child from your prior relationship, and not with your current husband.

 

I'm still not clear as to the parentage of your son by the way, perhaps you could be a little more clear when you post, before responding in a disputative manner.

[Mr White]

I will give the women here the benefit of the doubt and assume that the ones who say they never cheat are telling the truth. That being said I wish they would be more understanding of the fact that many women out there today are not trustworthy. It's the complete lack of understanding for where men are coming from that really gets to me. Even if you don't agree can't you at least understand why a man would feel this way?

 

Lack of empathy is just as bad as actually cheating or doing something dishonorable. I can hardly tolerate the self-righteousness. It is one thing to calmly declare your values and morals, and completely another - to tell other people that they are dicks just for feeling in e certain way or questioning something. If you're a man, you're not allowed to have concerns, doubts, or questions. For any one of those women will come up with tons of helpful suggestions. Such as "The problem is YOU, dickhead". That is unhelpful and the definition of lack of empathy. Men't perspectives are invaludated all the time, on the internet and off.

[threebyfate]

LOL. You'd end your marriage simply because your husband may be highly insecure? Rather say than try to reassure him and/or suggest some marital counseling to discover why he feels so insecure, and apparently needlessly so?

 

Have you ever cheated on your husband, by the way?

Yes, I would end my marriage if he had trust issues that deep.

 

I married an adult equal partner. Not a baby boy who expects me to fix him up.

 

No, I've never cheated on my husband, never cheated on my first husband, never cheated on anyone. Cheating is the lowest of lows, a gutter rolling experience, one that I've never done and will NEVER do. It's far easier to walk away from a crappy relationship or marriage, than to cheat on someone.

 

Hence why it would offend me so much, if my husband were to insist on a pat test, on Bump.

[Green]

Actually, it depends on the state you live in. In most states, if the father cannot be found, the court will "serve notice" of your intent to adopt out to the father by publication. They will make you, or your attorney, if you have one, publish in the newspaper for something like 30 days. If the father doesn't respond (or show up), then the court will not need the father's permission and you may proceed with the adoption.

 

If one parent wants the test and the other does not, then a court order is necessary. If no paternal rights have been established, you do not have any legal right to take a child without its parent's consent in to a clinic for any kind of testing. You DO have every right to demand the testing (the court will do one if support is being contested even if YOU didn't want to submit a sample) if you are being sought after through the courts for child support, but if there is no court order, you must get the child's establish guardian to consent with the test. Even if you do this and are married to the mother and through it you find the kid is not yours, most state courts will do their own paternity test for the divorce and custody procedure you seek as a result of your own test results. They will want to make sure the test was run by an unbiased venue rather than just run your possibly biased test results.

 

Its like saying you can take any child at any given time and get some medical test run on it. I'm sure you realize why this is illegal.

 

Take whatever approach you wish. Your OP asked if it was insulting and since you already got in a fight over the subject, you already knew it was.

 

You can look all of this up if you don't believe me.

 

Your post is off topic. You can order the test in the mail... you never have to take the child any where. As long as you have any kind of physical contact with the kid it would be easy to just swab the kids mouth and send it off to the lab. Who knows if the evidnence would stand up in court... thats not the question... because once you are married to a woman it doesn't even matter if she admits to cheating and the baby is not yours you are kinda stuck paying for a kid that isn't yours.

 

Yes, I would end my marriage if he had trust issues that deep.

 

I married an adult equal partner. Not a baby boy who expects me to fix him up.

 

No, I've never cheated on my husband, never cheated on my first husband, never cheated on anyone. Cheating is the lowest of lows, a gutter rolling experience, one that I've never done and will NEVER do. It's far easier to walk away from a crappy relationship or marriage, than to cheat on someone.

 

Hence why it would offend me so much, if my husband were to insist on a pat test, on Bump.

 

I have no reason to doubt that you never would cheat on your husban.

 

But in the real world a woman who does cheat, and a woman who doesn't cheat will both say "I don't cheat." From my perspective I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a cheater and non cheater. How many men and women out there a dating a partner who is kind and cool... who isn't giving any reason to suspect them... but then one night the person cheats... They regret it and things go back to normal the other partner none the wiser.

 

There is no equivalent to the paternity test for women. If there was I'm sure women would demand it, in fact I'm sure it would be public policy.

 

The reason it is not public policy to get paternity tests is because the STATE has great motivation to have a father financialy suporting the baby instead of tax dollars for a single mother.

[threebyfate]

I have no reason to doubt that you never would cheat on your husban.

As long as my husband knows this, anyone else is moot.

 

But in the real world a woman who does cheat, and a woman who doesn't cheat will both say "I don't cheat." From my perspective I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a cheater and non cheater. How many men and women out there a dating a partner who is kind and cool... who isn't giving any reason to suspect them... but then one night the person cheats... They regret it and things go back to normal the other partner none the wiser.

 

There is no equivalent to the paternity test for women. If there was I'm sure women would demand it, in fact I'm sure it would be public policy.

 

The reason it is not public policy to get paternity tests is because the STATE has great motivation to have a father financialy suporting the baby instead of tax dollars for a single mother.

Green, here's my stance on trust issues. After the first husband cheated on me and right afterwards, I ended up getting involved with a grass is greener guy, I had some serious trust issues. But looking back at each circumstance of trust issues, I realized that my gut instincts were bang on, that there was good reason to NOT trust certain individuals. What I had done, was to rationalize away the alarm bells.

 

So, I worked hard on those trust issues while lucking out on a man who's trustworthy! I trust him implicitly and if I'm wrong, I'll survive and if historical patterning holds true, I'll thrive from finding a better man.

 

If I can conquer my trust issues, anyone else can too. I ain't so speshul.

 

Having said all that, IF my husband ever, ever kickstarts the alarm bells on my gut instincts, rest assured I would slap a PI on him so fast, his head would spin. And yes, he knows this too. IF I'm wrong about his cheating, I don't expect him to forgive me and fully expect to bear the consequences of my actions for ruining a perfectly good marriage.

 

So, for those of you who want a pat test, be prepared to take the consequences for your actions, just like every other adult, rather than victim.

[sally4sara]

Your post is off topic. You can order the test in the mail... you never have to take the child any where. As long as you have any kind of physical contact with the kid it would be easy to just swab the kids mouth and send it off to the lab. Who knows if the evidnence would stand up in court... thats not the question... because once you are married to a woman it doesn't even matter if she admits to cheating and the baby is not yours you are kinda stuck paying for a kid that isn't yours.

 

You will never be eliminated from obligation of paying child support because YOU swabbed a kid's cheek. If the whole point of a pat test is to avoid financial and legal obligation for a child that is not yours, then you cannot test the kid yourself in the manner which would hold up in court without the mother's knowledge and consent. The court can decide to toss out the matter if she refuses consent. The point is, you cannot waltz into a court with your home jobby cotton swab kit results and expect the court to absolve your responsibility to supporting the child no matter what the results end up being. It isn't a "who knows" situation. It is fact. It can be researched. And since the court won't consider your secret, chicken $4it test mail order test, and you can't wisk a kid away for secret court valid testing - it matters a whole lot how you go about it.

 

Plus, if you're going to request such a drama causing event to take place and defend it with your "valid reasons" at least to the situation the dignity to educate yourself on whether those reasons are true or not. you're on here stating that women can adopt out some man's child without his consent and saying the mail order kit will get you out of child support. These are not accurate statments so they can't really count towards being "valid reasons".

 

Funny, the suggestion to do it on the sly and then lie about it ever happening if it is shown you are the father - coming from men who expect women to be honest about something even harder to cop to as admitting cheating would be. If you can't even admit to some mail order test, why would you expect her to be upfront about something even worse? Maybe it is the all around lack of honesty on both parties parts that has folks like that gravitating to each other in the first place? Sneaky suspicious guys and cheating women both lying to each other, round and round, sounds like a match made in heaven.

[Stung]

It is not common, but a paternity test can return a false negative, btw. You could swab the baby on the sly, get a report from some minor uncredentialed lab saying you're not the father, and then end up dumping the actual mother of your child and your actual child, even though you had no real reasons to mistrust them in the first place.

[Jersey Shortie]

Green

Look you make valid points. I still feel the way I do. I've told my gf who is not currently pregnant of these views. We are still togather. At this point if it never gets brought up again so be it. If she brings it up I'll say exactly what I said before I plan on getting one. I'm not saying it to humiliate or put her down. I said this is completly for me.

 

I make valid points but you won't listen to them or try to understand them. How is it that I can make valid points but you can't consider them Green?

 

And while I think you are looking out to protect yourself, I also think you *are* subconsciously saying it to humiliate her and put her down for all the men that found themselves in unfair situations based on the actions of other women. There seems to be an attitude of what you and other men are "owed" based on the fact that women do cheat, just like men.

 

 

 

Woogle

If a woman has nothing to hide why would she object to it? If a woman truly is faithful and honest with a man why would she have an issue with proving it? This is yet another case of women demonizing men for protecting ourselves. They want us to blindly trust even though that usually blows up in men's face.

 

"Trust" and "faith" are things that are not meant to be tangible things you can see or taste. They are based on a choice you make. And it takes away from these things if you can not trust another person without putting them up to a test. How many men here hate when women test them for silly things that aren't nearly as important as having a child together? Can you seriously not understand the hurt it inflicts by telling the mother of your baby that you plain don't trust or have faith in her character? How many men would like to be questioned for their trust or faith? How many men take a great amount of pleasure at knowing their partner trusts their choices, how they handle their life and their commitment to their partner? Reasonable questions no?

 

And this has nothing to do with demonizing men. In this case, this is clearly about demonizing women. How do you turn this around on men once again being the victims when it's women being asked to prove their worth and trust with men that are chossing to have babies with their wifes and gfs? Apparently to enough men on this board, men are *always* the helpless vicitims.

 

I had this little scene play in my head what I think some of the men here would ideally like the situation to go down when asking their partner to get a paternity test. It goes a little something like this:

 

*smiling sweetly and looking up adoringly at her bf/husband that just asked for her to get tested to make sure the baby is his. "Yes baby, of course I will get a paternity test. I could very well be a cheating decentful witch and I am so glad that you think that's quite possibly the case with me and your sweet enough to give me the chance to prove my worth to you. All I care about is earning your trust and it's understandable that the last 2 years we spent together isn't good enough. How could it be? I'm a woman after all. I love you so much. Now, did you want pancakes or frenchtoast for breakfast? After I am done cooking you a hot meal, we should hurry right over to the hospital. I want to prove to you what a worthy woman I am of your love. I am just so worthless and possible of deciet that it's only fair that I prove my worth to you through science."

 

 

 

Art Critic

 

I have seen guys order a paternity test just to hurt their STBX even though they knew the kid was theirs..

I think many times a guy pulls the Paternity test deal as a power play and to try and manipulate the situation...

 

Astute observation Art Critic. I am curious as to what some of the guys opinions are on this. Or does it not matter to them?

 

 

 

Green

I do not plan to ever bring this up with her again, and unless I suspect cheating I will just wait until the child is born and get a paternity test secretly as to not enter another stupid fight. I won't lie to her, I will just say that I refuse to ever talk about it again...

 

You would be lying to her. And you are lying to yourself by saying it's not a lie. It's mearly a techniquality. You only care about yourself. Not about her or the baby if you go behind her back like that. Why even be with her? Do her a favor.

 

... So I don't get what you women are so afraid of.

 

It's not a matter of being afraid of anything. It's a matter of the men in our lives that are suppose to love and trust us most treating us like we are nothing but a common whore who is spreading her legs for any man. So much to the point that he needs a test for her to prove her worthiness. That undermines everything a relationship is based on. You know, it really sucks for the women who do lie and pretend a child is someone elses it sucks for the man and the child. But life isn't built on guarentees. How about all the women out there that get married and 20 years later their husbands are leaving them for their assistants? What guarentee did she have that he would be faithfull and committed? What test can she take to ensure his faithfullness? Or does that just not matter?

 

Men already are forced to trust women to great degrees

.

 

If you have to be forced to trust a woman, you need help. Men and women equally sacrifice and take risks. Men's risk is not greater, it's just different.

 

Finaly I will say that as a man you do have to protect yourself both through prenups and paternity test

 

Yes. It's all about protecting "yourself". You are number one. You matter. No one else does. Just keep protecting yourself. But don't be surprised when you get very little in return from anyone that's in a relationship with you. When you give little, you get little.

[Jersey Shortie]

Here is some facts I found about paternity fraud:

 

A 2005 scientific review of international published studies of paternal discrepancy found a range in incidence from 0.8% to 30% (median 3.7%), suggesting that the widely quoted and unsubstantiated figure of 10% of non-paternal events is an overestimate. However, in situations where disputed parentage was the reason for the paternity testing, there were higher levels; an incidence of 17% to 33% (median of 26.9%). Most at risk were those born to younger parents, to unmarried couples and those of lower socio-economic status, or from certain cultural groups.

 

Overall, it's hard to find hard straight facts about the rate of paternity fraud. But it seems that 10% is an overestimation and unsubstantiated.

[A O]

If I can conquer my trust issues, anyone else can too. I ain't so speshul.

I don't think you have conquered your trust issues. Arguably, you're mastering them, but they're still there nonetheless.

 

Having said all that, IF my husband ever, ever kickstarts the alarm bells on my gut instincts, rest assured I would slap a PI on him so fast, his head would spin.

Gut instincts - I'm not a fan of em. People have a habit of remembering the one's that come true but barely noticing the many more that don't

 

So, for those of you who want a pat test, be prepared to take the consequences for your actions, just like every other adult, rather than victim.

If broached in the right manner, especially to people who don't have trust issues, then result aside, the consequences will be minimal.

 

 

Plus, if you're going to request such a drama causing event to take place and defend it with your "valid reasons" at least to the situation the dignity to educate yourself on whether those reasons are true or not.

It need not be a drama educing event and to many it wouldn't be.

 

Funny, the suggestion to do it on the sly and then lie about it ever happening if it is shown you are the father - coming from men who expect women to be honest about something even harder to cop to as admitting cheating would be.

Given some of the responses here, its understandable why he'd want to take the less drama-fueled route.

 

.

[threebyfate]

I don't think you have conquered your trust issues. Arguably, you're mastering them, but they're still there nonetheless.

I disagree.

 

Gut instincts - I'm not a fan of em. People have a habit of remembering the one's that come true but barely noticing the many more that don't

Bottom line, in not trusting gut, people don't trust themselves.

 

If broached in the right manner, especially to people who don't have trust issues, then result aside, the consequences will be minimal.

I could have gotten behind this, had it not been a deliberate insult. I've said it before a few times in this thread, about expectation management, as in delivery of the pat test request, as early in the dating process as possible, prior to the inception of progeny, best case scenario, in discussions about prenups and general attitudes towards. If impact is minimal, good for you. If impact is negative, eat it. Actions to consequences.

[A O]

Bottom line, in not trusting gut, people don't trust themselves.

Using your gut instincts as a starting point to find out more - fine, trusting nothing but your gut - foolish.

 

I could have gotten behind this, had it not been a deliberate insult. I've said it before a few times in this thread, about expectation management, as in delivery of the pat test request, as early in the dating process as possible, prior to the inception of progeny, best case scenario, in discussions about prenups and general attitudes towards. If impact is minimal, good for you. If impact is negative, eat it. Actions to consequences.

I don't quite understand what you're saying here but there's a bigger issue here than this topic itself, as there almost always is with most topics here. It's all about communication, healthy communication and with some here, I'm simply not seeing it, be it the guys trying to run roughshod or the girls being a lot more staunch than need be.

 

 

.

[threebyfate]

Using your gut instincts as a starting point to find out more - fine, trusting nothing but your gut - foolish.

I don't disagree with you, if you consider that I would slap a PI on my husband, if my gut tells me so. This is a way to get solid evidence on gut.

 

But I wouldn't bother, if it wasn't marriage. If my gut is telling me something, with someone who I'm just dating or in a relationship with, I would just walk. There's no use being in a relationship with someone I don't trust implicitly. But I will admit that knowing why I didn't trust them, does help. It's with a sense of relief, when you find out, no matter how brutal the truth is.

 

I don't quite understand what you're saying here but there's a bigger issue here than this topic itself, as there almost always is with most topics here. It's all about communication, healthy communication and with some here, I'm simply not seeing it, be it the guys trying to run roughshod or the girls being a lot more staunch than need be.

No doubt extremism breeds extremism.

 

But what I stated was my truth. If right this very minute, my husband were to ask for a paternity test for Bump, I would walk away from our marriage. Had he broached it, when we clinically discussed prenups while dating, I think I would have been fine with it, since it would be in a non-personal way, and at that point in time, he didn't know me very well.

[A O]

I don't disagree with you, if you consider that I would slap a PI on my husband, if my gut tells me so. This is a way to get solid evidence on gut.

I didn't know what PI stood for at first, a private investigator, now we're certainly talking a whole different level of trust here than simply broaching a subject and feeling offended.

 

If my gut is telling me something, with someone who I'm just dating or in a relationship with, I would just walk. There's no use being in a relationship with someone I don't trust implicitly. But I will admit that knowing why I didn't trust them, does help. It's with a sense of relief, when you find out, no matter how brutal the truth is.

These are your trust issues talking, they're still very much there for sure. You ask for a level of trust, of reassurance that only people with trust issues ever require.

 

No doubt extremism breeds extremism. But what I stated was my truth. If right this very minute, my husband were to ask for a paternity test for Bump, I would walk away from our marriage. Had he broached it, when we clinically discussed prenups while dating, I think I would have been fine with it, since it would be in a non-personal way, and at that point in time, he didn't know me very well.

I don't see what's particularly extreme about this subject - your reaction to it being broached aside. This is simply another hurdle for a couple to overcome, how big a hurdle it is, dependent no doubts on the participants involved moreso than the subject matter at hand.

 

 

.

[sally4sara]

 

Given some of the responses here, its understandable why he'd want to take the less drama-fueled route.

 

.

 

Are you saying it is best to lie when the person won't react the way you want or are you saying Green in particular should get a free pass for being a lying sneak because it makes it easier for him?

[threebyfate]

Okay, A_O, we're going round and round in circles. If someone gives you reason to not trust them, you're pretty stupid to just talk it out, since cheaters lie like permanent rugs. When that happens, you go externally for verification if it's in a marriage. If it's in a relationship, why waste time with someone you don't trust?

 

This is applicable to pat tests, since if you're married and are asking for a pat test, you don't trust the other person not to cheat on you. No one gets unknowingly pregnant without the partner involved, without cheating. So if you don't trust them, you ask for a pat test. In doing so, expect to take the consequences of your action, be they positive, push or negative.

 

This really isn't rocket science and to expect that women are going to be happy to have pat tests done, when they've given you no reason to distrust them, is just wishful thinking.

 

It's no different than me slapping a PI on my husband, even thought I trust him implicitly, but doing so, just in case, due to my personal insecurities. If so, I'm fully willing to take the consequences of my actions, be they positive (bwahahaha), push or negative.

 

So gentlemen, take responsibility. You're not little boys who need their mommies.

[Green]

Are you saying it is best to lie when the person won't react the way you want or are you saying Green in particular should get a free pass for being a lying sneak because it makes it easier for him?

 

Watch who you are calling a lying sneak, I brought all this up with my gf. I see no reason why at this point I should throw it in her face when I decide to get this done, especialy since we differ on view points.

 

I do see why women find it insulting. I also think it can be done in an insulting way. Realisticly the exact kind of women I would need this for is the exact kind of women I would not suspect. If a woman is so good that she got a man to raise and pay for kids he thought was his... why would he suspect her anyways. I mean this woman might apear to be perfect to everyone in town and her husband... so why would he suspect she is a cheater... Thats why if I ever have kids I will get them tested for paternity... as policy ... because I don't trust society... as opposed to a specific girl.. If I didn't trust a specific girl I would also get the test done and I wouldn't care if I insulted her.

[A O]

Are you saying it is best to lie when the person won't react the way you want or are you saying Green in particular should get a free pass for being a lying sneak because it makes it easier for him?

Nope. This is about behavior and how one set of behaviors impacts on another. I can understand the choices involved when behaviors clash. I'm not advocating anything here but if I were, it would be 'more understanding' - communicating, having an open mind rather than a closed off 'its my way of the highway' type attitude that some of you have here.

 

 

If someone gives you reason to not trust them, you're pretty stupid to just talk it out, since cheaters lie like permanent rugs.

Again, this is your trust issues talking. To those who haven't experienced trust issues before or haven't let them affect them too much, they won't think like this. They will talk through the issue, assuming that sound communication was present beforehand, they will not automatically view the potential trust breaker as a cheater and a liar. Only those with trust issues ever do.

 

This really isn't rocket science and to expect that women are going to be happy to have pat tests done, when they've given you no reason to distrust them, is just wishful thinking.

I don't expect a woman to be happy about it have stated as much on numerous occasions. But neither do I expect them to walk away at the bare mention of it....although I understand the type of person who would now.

 

It's no different than me slapping a PI on my husband, even thought I trust him implicitly, but doing so, just in case, due to my personal insecurities. If so, I'm fully willing to take the consequences of my actions, be they positive (bwahahaha), push or negative.

If I hark back to my earlier scenario, the one about it being all about me and my insecurities as to why I would ask for a test, and little to do with the woman involved. Well, when making that little scenario, I never once thought that the woman involved could come packed with her own set of insecurities. But that is the case and would be the case if it were a woman like you involved.

 

So gentlemen, take responsibility. You're not little boys who need their mommies.

Really don't know why you need to take this route especially since you don't appear to be as over things as you think.This'll just incite rubbish (hope I'm wrong).

 

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[sally4sara]

Watch who you are calling a lying sneak, I brought all this up with my gf. I see no reason why at this point I should throw it in her face when I decide to get this done, especialy since we differ on view points.

 

I didn't call you a lying sneak. I asked if it was okay to AO if you became a lying sneak.

Going a head and doing it behind her back will make you a lying sneak. It is up to you if that is what you want your first act as a father to be.