Are Paternity Tests Insulting?

[calizaggy]

Women whom are opposed to paternity testing seem either completely childish, selfish, or self absorbed..

 

Let's say you ask to use your boyfriends computer to check his email.. (Keep in mind, even if he is cheating it will not mean that you conned into raising a kid that is not yours for the rest of your life). He freaks out completely, says it is a "deal breaker", and he is going to divorce/break up with you and even leave the children the 2 of you have together because you asked to see his email...

 

Is that the behavior of a stable, logical, and loving human being? "You don't blindly trust me 100%? it is over! Good bye forever!" LOL, completely childish..

 

With nothing to hide I would say "Sure honey,check whatever you like.. I love you and want to be with you forever.."

[BUENG1]

...out of people who FILE CLAIMS WITH THE CHILD SUPPORT AGENCY.

 

If you're filing a claim with the child support agency, then there are ACTUAL doubts as to paternity.

 

Unless you can show me that a majority of men in the UK file claims with the child support agency out of policy. Even if it's their third child with the same wife.

 

Nice try....No it means you are filing a claim for child support, doesn't have anything to do with the likelyhood of paternity being in doubt.

[JustJoe]

AO I was taught respect. Respect is NOT necessarily agreement. My opinion is as valid as yours or any of the others , in favor of PT's.You and others have voiced many excuses to mask your own insecurities, look to your own issues first, then worry about mine.

[JustJoe]

BTW, she called , the child is her husband's. I don't know what to do?

[sally4sara]

Women who are flat out caught lying about this do not get any kind of punishment for FRAUD

 

WTH?

 

someone asked if we'd agree with a punishment for this and I illustrated what happens in cases of fraud. It wasn't a statement of what happens to them. It was made as a suggestion to see if anyone thought it was a good fit.

We already KNOW the typical punishment for fraud isn't applied to these cases.

I wonder why? Maybe because it leaves the kid abandoned? With no one?

 

Do you have a better suggestion? I think it needs a better one.

[A O]

AO I was taught respect. Respect is NOT necessarily agreement.

You can disagree without resorting to insults Joe. Some here can do that quite easily, but despite what you think of yourself - you're not one of them.

 

My opinion is as valid as yours or any of the others , in favor of PT's.You and others have voiced many excuses to mask your own insecurities, look to your own issues first, then worry about mine.

Again, there's not a lot of respect here. Up to now, I haven't debated your opinion Joe, just your behavior.

 

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[Mr White]

WTH?

 

someone asked if we'd agree with a punishment for this and I illustrated what happens in cases of fraud. It wasn't a statement of what happens to them. It was made as a suggestion to see if anyone thought it was a good fit.

We already KNOW the typical punishment for fraud isn't applied to these cases.

I wonder why? Maybe because it leaves the kid abandoned? With no one?

 

Do you have a better suggestion? I think it needs a better one.

 

1) Fine the mother. No need for jail time, just slap a heavy fine on her

2) Track the real father and make him pay child support

 

everything else is moot since the duped father would probably divorce, in which case:

 

3) bring back the fault divorce (so she can't play the good wifey and leave with half the property).

 

If people want to sacrifice their life for kids, there are many other, much more dignified ways to do it (e.g. volunteer in Haiti) to do it, rather than resign to living with a skank .

[JustJoe]

AO, I don't really care what you think. As a newbie, I will defer......once. From now on , keep your paternizing comments to yourself.

[A O]

^ ^ ^

I don't mean to be "paternizing" or patronizing Joe, but I have a hard time turning a blind eye to misrepresentation. If you say that your were taught to be respectful, then show it.

 

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[JustJoe]

Sorry for my spelling. As I said I'm new here so will defer. The thread is yours.

[sally4sara]

1) Fine the mother. No need for jail time, just slap a heavy fine on her

2) Track the real father and make him pay child support

 

everything else is moot since the duped father would probably divorce, in which case:

 

3) bring back the fault divorce (so she can't play the good wifey and leave with half the property).

 

If people want to sacrifice their life for kids, there are many other, much more dignified ways to do it (e.g. volunteer in Haiti) to do it, rather than resign to living with a skank .

 

So it is best to leave the kid impoverished and out on the street with its mother? This satisfies the issue?

Helping kids you don't know from counrty you've never been to is better than having a relationship with a kid? I see I see.

[bayouboi]

So it is best to leave the kid impoverished and out on the street with its mother? This satisfies the issue?

Helping kids you don't know from counrty you've never been to is better than having a relationship with a kid? I see I see.

 

Your scenario treats the child as the only victim of the mother's selfishness. Noone wants the child to be punished for its mother's sins, but the mother and the real father are the only ones who should be held to account to make sure the child is taken care of. The problem with wanting everyone's situation to be ideal is that in this case the mother's actions caused the situation to start off less than par.

 

Taking my own case as an example. I have no ill will or fault for the child my ex-wife had with another person while we were still married, but I would be damned to pay a penny to support it. It's not mine. I didn't make the choice to bring it into the world. Furthermore, my choice to bring a child into the world was robbed from me. I am a victim of selfish actions just as much as the child is.

[sally4sara]

Your scenario treats the child as the only victim of the mother's selfishness. Noone wants the child to be punished for its mother's sins, but the mother and the real father are the only ones who should be held to account to make sure the child is taken care of. The problem with wanting everyone's situation to be ideal is that in this case the mother's actions caused the situation to start off less than par.

 

Taking my own case as an example. I have no ill will or fault for the child my ex-wife had with another person while we were still married, but I would be damned to pay a penny to support it. It's not mine. I didn't make the choice to bring it into the world. Furthermore, my choice to bring a child into the world was robbed from me. I am a victim of selfish actions just as much as the child is.

 

When I met my ex husband, there was this girl who claimed her kid was by him. He had certainly had sex with her so the possibility was present.

She eventually did go for child support so testing occurred and he was not the father.

I told her prior to this to bring us the kid; we'd raise it.

 

See, I don't hold to the belief that men are somehow naturally less capable of building a bond with a child with or without blood relation. I don't hold to the belief that being a good father is only a source of pride if one cannot avoid it and the child is genetically related. I find the implication to be a stunted one and peppered through this thread that raising a child is only a burden to men, and never something one could feel important or get a sense of pride from doing without relation. I don't think lying or fraud is cool, but I can step outside the situation and see someone needs to do it.

That girl who claimed my ex was the dad? No father was ever named. That kid was a victim. Don't we try to prevent victims? Help them?

[bayouboi]

See, I don't hold to the belief that men are somehow naturally less capable of building a bond with a child with or without blood relation. I don't hold to the belief that being a good father is only a source of pride if one cannot avoid it and the child is genetically related. I find the implication to be a stunted one and peppered through this thread that raising a child is only a burden to men, and never something one could feel important or get a sense of pride from doing without relation. I don't think lying or fraud is cool, but I can step outside the situation and see someone needs to do it.

That girl who claimed my ex was the dad? No father was ever named. That kid was a victim. Don't we try to prevent victims? Help them?

 

I understand how you feel because you are a woman and are wired differently, but surely you realize that men don't think the same way that you do just by reading the responses from men in this thread. You can label us the bad guy (in a situation where the woman cheated) all you want, but it won't change how WE feel about the situation because we are not wired to think and feel the same way that you are wired.

 

On another note, do I think that a man can raise a child with pride without relation? Absolutely, stepparents are valid proof of that. The situation we're describing, however, is inherently unfair (pitting a man responsible for a cheating woman's child) and hopefully escapable.

[silic0ntoad]

http://jonathanturley.org/2009/01/09/court-orders-man-to-pay-child-support-of-twins-even-after-dna-tests-show-that-he-is-not-the-father/

 

http://www.videosift.com/video/Man-In-Jail-For-Child-Support-On-Kid-That-Isn-t-His?loadcomm=1

 

http://www.ejfi.org/family/family-83.htm

 

http://www.parentdish.com/2009/01/20/dad-forced-to-continue-paying-child-support-for-kids-that-arent/

 

Just a few samples for the women here.

 

Now, I wouldn't ask for a P test unless I had reason to, or it was early in an R, or whatever, I'd want to have cause to ask.

 

But ladies, realise, the system is inherently flawed. Those are just a handful of countless examples of men being screwed by the system. You can't point fingers if a guy asks, and act all defensive. You also can't go and use the kid as leverage in this argument "Oh, if this happens, the kid will be impoverished!" On this note, here are my suggested reprucussions on the mother:

1) Forced repayment to damaged party of all CS funds

2) Forced prenatal PT testing for any future pregnancies

 

 

Spare me. That argument is spent. The facts are there, the data empyrical. More and more men are paying for kids that aren't theres, it's true.

 

Look, you can't expect anyone to take responsibilty for a child that isn't theres, and it's unfair to put that expectation on men when legally the fight is already astronomically stacked against them in the realm of romance based legalities. I personally wouldn't ask without reason, but you can't, absolutely can't hold it against someone if they do; they are simply protecting themselves, which, women do every day when they go to court for CS payments, visitation, etc.

[donnamaybe]

Spare me. That argument is spent. The facts are there, the data empyrical. More and more men are paying for kids that aren't theres, it's true.

 

That's fine. If you or any of the others on this thread who are so adamant about this want to demand a paternity test in the future, do so at the peril of possibly ruining your relationship.

[A O]

So you are saying, as a man, you do not and will not ever find importance in the betterment of a child's life unless it is unavoidable and an extension of your own ego via genetic markers?

Lemme take a stab at this...have I been a parent, a father figure to a child that wasn't mine. Yes I have - great experience too. Would I do it if I were forced or trapped into doing it - absolutely not, if possible. And I'm sure most people would feel the same.

 

 

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[sally4sara]

Lemme take a stab at this...have I been a parent, a father figure to a child that wasn't mine. Yes I have - great experience too. Would I do it if I were forced or trapped into doing it - absolutely not, if possible. And I'm sure most people would feel the same.

.

 

That is simply the reason for why the lie about paternity is wrong.

 

But for some guy to make the statements bayouboi just made while also asserting he would ask for a test when all was well in the relationship, simply proves that for some of the men in this thread, children are a plague. One they will seek to avoid and look for anyway out of, even to the point of hoping the woman cheated. He even mentions being made to look the "bad guy". Walking away from your own child will make you the bad guy and he wants to be able to do it and keep his ego intact. THAT is what its about for him.

I've learned all about the posters in this thread I care to. Many of them will clearly be absentee fathers even if the kid is theirs. They will just be waiting for an excuse.

[calizaggy]

That's fine. If you or any of the others on this thread who are so adamant about this want to demand a paternity test in the future, do so at the peril of possibly ruining your relationship.

 

 

Is it possible for women to act like adults instead of spoiled children?

 

It would be like me saying to a woman "Go ahead, check my email, but do so at the peril of ruining our relationship"..With nothing to hide, since i am a logical and secure MAN, I would say "Honey, check whatever you like. I realize many men do cheat, and I want you to be secure. I love you"

 

Funny how women use the emotional angle to get what they want "It is insulting to sign a pre nup, I am insulted that you asked for a paternity test", then use the full force of the law to clean a man out of his savings, or force a guy to raise a child that is not his once he signs the birth certificate..

 

And NO ladies, we do not want to be tricked into raising another man's kids. Raise it yourself or with the man you conceived it with.

[A O]

But for some guy to make the statements bayouboi just made while also asserting he would ask for a test when all was well in the relationship, simply proves that for some of the men in this thread, children are a plague.

The plaque are the deceitful actions, not the child.

 

Walking away from your own child will make you the bad guy and he wants to be able to do it and keep his ego intact. THAT is what its about for him.

I understand his actions and I'd do exactly the same too - walk away from a child that I thought was mine but wasn't. But more than likely, it'll only be temporary, as the welfare of the child is greater than my silly ole feelings. And I'm sure he'd be the same, as most people would who have an "established" relationship with the child. But, I imagine the relationship would be over.

 

I've learned all about the posters in this thread I care to. Many of them will clearly be absentee fathers even if the kid is theirs. They will just be waiting for an excuse.

Yes, you'd get that brigade - trick is not let this knowledge colour your views on all men.

 

 

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[bayouboi]

That is simply the reason for why the lie about paternity is wrong.

 

But for some guy to make the statements bayouboi just made while also asserting he would ask for a test when all was well in the relationship, simply proves that for some of the men in this thread, children are a plague. One they will seek to avoid and look for anyway out of, even to the point of hoping the woman cheated. He even mentions being made to look the "bad guy". Walking away from your own child will make you the bad guy and he wants to be able to do it and keep his ego intact. THAT is what its about for him.

I've learned all about the posters in this thread I care to. Many of them will clearly be absentee fathers even if the kid is theirs. They will just be waiting for an excuse.

 

Again, your personal attacks are unwarranted. I've never implied or stated that I think children are a plague. I believe children are a blessing & hope to have some of my own some day.

 

You should really consider your words before typing them. You've said that I "should never breed". How would that make you feel if someone said that to you?

[donnamaybe]

Is it possible for women to act like adults instead of spoiled children?

 

I guess I would have to answer that with, "Is it possible for men to act like adults instead of pathetic, whiney creatures who feel they aren't worthy of a woman's faithfulness?"

[sally4sara]

Yes, you'd get that brigade - trick is not let this knowledge colour your views on all men.

.

 

I know some truly wonderful men and the only time I wonder how many of them exist is reading threads like these where a fairly simple subject overturns mold stone and the suspected minority comes crawling out.

[sally4sara]

Again, your personal attacks are unwarranted. I've never implied or stated that I think children are a plague. I believe children are a blessing & hope to have some of my own some day.

 

You should really consider your words before typing them. You've said that I "should never breed". How would that make you feel if someone said that to you?

 

In the immortal words of Flavor Flav

"I gots nuthin for YOU man."

[Tony]

After 600 posts, at least 300 of which were completely off topic, I think we have gotten enough from this thread. It was fun, we appreciate your participation, and now we depart into the sunset for another day!