my husband's emotional affair

[califnan]

Since there haven't been any other comments yet - to your last post KL .. I will add, that if I remember correctly - most of the posters wished for you to leave your husband at this time - for your family, because they thought it was in your best interest ..

 

Aside from his seeing the Cat person and long phone calls, I don't like the things he has said to you, bringing up the past - and the excuse of questioning yours and his marriage, his lack of respect for your wishes regarding Cat .. and his childishness of acting "confused" ..

[KLmccaulley81]

Since there haven't been any other comments yet - to your last post KL .. I will add, that if I remember correctly - most of the posters wished for you to leave your husband at this time - for your family, because they thought it was in your best interest ..

 

Aside from his seeing the Cat person and long phone calls, I don't like the things he has said to you, bringing up the past - and the excuse of questioning yours and his marriage, his lack of respect for your wishes regarding Cat .. and his childishness of acting "confused" ..

 

I know! I am packing right now. In fact, I have everything I need and some money as well. My friend is coming to pick me up and drive me to a safe place to stay the night and hopefully my dad will fly out tomorrow to get me. We might drive back or fly, not sure but he wants to help me. So the only way I will stay at this point is if he PROVES to me he broke it off with her and there will have to be EVIDENCE right now of this. He will have to drive to where I'm at (which will be an hour drive or more with traffic) and prove to me that he is done and ready to be committed. if that doesn't happen i'm on a plane. done. done. done.

[califnan]

I know! I am packing right now. In fact, I have everything I need and some money as well. My friend is coming to pick me up and drive me to a safe place to stay the night and hopefully my dad will fly out tomorrow to get me. We might drive back or fly, not sure but he wants to help me. So the only way I will stay at this point is if he PROVES to me he broke it off with her and there will have to be EVIDENCE right now of this. He will have to drive to where I'm at (which will be an hour drive or more with traffic) and prove to me that he is done and ready to be committed. if that doesn't happen i'm on a plane. done. done. done.

 

-------------------

 

Your parents must be beside themselves with this up and down uncertainly.

 

To my mind there is no way that your husband can prove to you that he is finished communicating with Cat .. Only Time would do that .. Also, try not to let your husband threaten you with: if you leave you will kill the marriage. That is not true, only he can do that ..

 

I will pray for your safe escape KL.

[2sunny]

I know! I am packing right now. In fact, I have everything I need and some money as well. My friend is coming to pick me up and drive me to a safe place to stay the night and hopefully my dad will fly out tomorrow to get me. We might drive back or fly, not sure but he wants to help me. So the only way I will stay at this point is if he PROVES to me he broke it off with her and there will have to be EVIDENCE right now of this. He will have to drive to where I'm at (which will be an hour drive or more with traffic) and prove to me that he is done and ready to be committed. if that doesn't happen i'm on a plane. done. done. done.

 

i'm proud of your strength now. he has left no choice for you. he has given you no good reason to stay - for what? something that looks like less than crumbs? that includes ridicule and abuse? i don't think that would be good for anyone.

 

so, the sooner you get out - the sooner you start healing.

 

stay well, stay safe. prayers and good energy going your way for safe travels.

 

again - i'm proud, i know this must be hard for you. stay strong.

[KLmccaulley81]

UGH. He got home before my friend could pick me up to take me away. And yet again he has paralyzed me. I told my parents that i would not tell them i was leaving unless it was 100% for certain. they know that it would be a phone call away and that i would tell them to get the tickets NOW if i did. he has me convinced that this is all my fault. he really does. he builds a great case against me. i did ask him to give up his dream of trying to play basketball at the professional level. i did ask him to give that up when we were 19. i did give him a hard time when it came to the dreams of acting (we both went to acting school) because i was beginning to understand how demanding the entertainment business is and i was scared he would be gone allt het ime. we had dreams to start our own theater company and do things on our own. i guess he forgot about that. he says i never supported him with his music. i did support him and yes i did complain when he was up all night working on stuff and never around. yes i will admit taht. i was selfish a lot of times and i did commit infidelity very early in our marriage. yes i was drunk and yes i stopped the damn thing just about as soon as the physical act began. yes it was horrific and i felt terrible. yes he forgave me but i guess now he can use it against me. he did a lot for me and he gave up a lot for me and i guess it's payback now. he carried the relationship for 9 years so i suppose it is my turn. if i leave i know he will make good on his promise to end the marriage. i can see it in his eyes. i guess maybe i was all bad for him throughout the years and all i did was bring mostly bad to his life. maybe God does want him to leave me. maybe i'm just not worth it. maybe i deserve for him to give up on me and to give up on our marriage. he doesn't see a marriage anyway. he refuses to commit 100% and sees no reason to. i guess i can see why. i was pretty much a terrible wife and why would God want him to stay with me. so basically in order to save any marriage at all i will have to carry everything and take the abuse. i will have to deal with him being with cat whenver he wants and talking to her. i will have to deal with it all. i suppose i should stop posting b/c i can't leave. i just need to stop talking about it b/c i am not leaving. i don't know why, i guess it is because i feel that i deserve this. i guess he is right and i am wrong. he says i have nothing to worry about hwen it comes to cat. i don't know. my life is a mess and it's my fault so i will take the fall. if he leaves me i suppose that is what i deserved.

[KLmccaulley81]

he also doesn't want me taking the boys. he says i've always been selfish because i'll argue with him in front of them (not screaming matches though) and that i never think of them first. he claims he is thinking of himself and them only. he says he puts them first. and if i leave he says he feels like he should just say screw it and be done.

[califnan]

Most importantly: Don't stop posting no matter what..

 

It is the devil who tells you that you are worthless, and that you deserve abuse, etc.. And the devil is Using your husband to make you feel this way ... Is your marriage uplifting and of God ??

 

You will have the baby, and then he will threaten to keep all three of your children captive.. Next stop is the sheriff or police station? Call them and ask them your rights .. Tell them that you are in an abusive situation, are about to give birth, your parents are waiting to pick you up ... no time for a restraining order.. Will they accomodate you and your sons to safety - for your parents to pick you up ??

[PhoenixRise]

You're forgetting something very important. All this sh*t that he is saying to you is not him talking. IT IS THE AFFAIR!! Everything that has come out of his mouth is gaslighting.

 

You are right about one thing. You can stay, and just accept his affair. And if you just accept it, if they haven't yet slept together, they most certainly will. So you can accept it and stay.

 

Or you can leave and give him some space to get some clarity. Yes, there is the risk that he will divorce you. Yes, there is the risk that he will choose Cat. But these are risks you are facing anyway, whether you stay or go. By staying, I feel like you are just delaying the inevitable, and making yourself miserable in the meantime.

 

Of course, he is going to say anything he can to make you stay. He wants his wife and family, and he wants his thing on the side. His blaming you for his life is total crap, and you know it. He's a big boy and made his own choices along the way. You did not put a gun to his head and make him give up his dreams. He made the choice as well to have a family. Because he may now regret that choice, is not your fault.

 

Yes, it's your choice to stay. He's not willing to give up Cat, he doesn't seem to be willing to enter therapy. Things simply will not change if you stay. At this point, you're enabling.

 

If you do decide to stay, I hope you will seek or continue counseling- and please don't stop posting here.

 

 

Geezz This guy isn't responsible for anything is he? He made choices about his life and the direction it took. HE decided to give up acting and not pursue the theater. HE decided to not pursue his dream of professional sports. He decided the course of his life. Regardless of if you asked or not....HE decided. It is the height of manipulation and childishness for him to blame you for his choices.

 

Don't feel bad and give up because you don't have the strength to advocate on your own behalf right now. Keep posting here and continue to seek support IRL too. You will get stronger.

 

Eventually you will see that you never get respect from a man by being a doormat. AND when you do see it then you will be ready.

 

The bolded part of the post quoted above is absolutely true. Everything that you are afraid of (divorce, he will chose Cat, etc) you ARE facing right now.

 

The danger is, that you will accept this behavior for so long, and continue to internalize the idea that his cheating is your fault for so long that by the time things finally do blow up (eventually they will) your self esteem will be nil.

 

Regardless of whatever choices you are making, don't give up on yourself and don't think even for another minute that you deserve the treatment your husband is dishing out.

[califnan]

Another thought.. I think you are better off to relocate back to the safety and sanity of Iowa - Before a judge could order you to stay in Calif because of you and husband residing in the same state with your children ..

[KLmccaulley81]

You're forgetting something very important. All this sh*t that he is saying to you is not him talking. IT IS THE AFFAIR!! Everything that has come out of his mouth is gaslighting.

 

You are right about one thing. You can stay, and just accept his affair. And if you just accept it, if they haven't yet slept together, they most certainly will. So you can accept it and stay.

 

Or you can leave and give him some space to get some clarity. Yes, there is the risk that he will divorce you. Yes, there is the risk that he will choose Cat. But these are risks you are facing anyway, whether you stay or go. By staying, I feel like you are just delaying the inevitable, and making yourself miserable in the meantime.

 

Of course, he is going to say anything he can to make you stay. He wants his wife and family, and he wants his thing on the side. His blaming you for his life is total crap, and you know it. He's a big boy and made his own choices along the way. You did not put a gun to his head and make him give up his dreams. He made the choice as well to have a family. Because he may now regret that choice, is not your fault.

 

Yes, it's your choice to stay. He's not willing to give up Cat, he doesn't seem to be willing to enter therapy. Things simply will not change if you stay. At this point, you're enabling.

 

If you do decide to stay, I hope you will seek or continue counseling- and please don't stop posting here.

 

 

Is it really just the affair talking? I am SO confused. He makes me feel like even if this woman wasn't involved he would still be having all these regrets and bad feelings about me and our marriage. How do I know that it is the affair talking? He keeps telling me that I'm a fool for making this about Cat. He says that she and I are not at all related about anything that is going on. He says we have nothing to do with eachother. He swears that there is nothing going on and that they are just friends and that nothing will happen so I shouldn't be concerned. How do I KNOW for SURE that all this stuff he is saying is truly gaslighting. Maybe he would have some of those feelings but would be able to work through them and move forward with me if she weren't in the picture? Do you think he started thinking about ending the marriage when he got close to her? This is all so hard for me to understand. I was blindsided. He expects me to carry everything right now and cater to him while he talks to her in person for 2 hours after work on a sunday when he is supposed to be home with his family. He expects me to believe that that is okay because of "where he's at" right now. He keeps using that. Saying, "well I've told you where I'm at and I told you how I feel, I'm being honest." well, i really do not have a clue as what to do. i know the future is unpredictable. but i wish i truly knew in my heart what i should do. i am so tired of this, my whole body aches. my heart aches, my head aches, my back aches, everything. my eyes are dry from so many tears that i can no longer cry. The main thing to me is knowing for SURE that all this stuff he is saying is coming from the affair. ( he denies an affair though) How do I know for certain? Or I guess I never will....

[califnan]

I recognize the symptoms from my husband's affair ... But I still am not qualified, because I am not with your husband and cat.. But if he has turned on you and made you to feel inferior and blameful - what difference does it make, what the reason .. Do you think he is more justified to put you down the way he does, if there is no affair - and if it supposedly about his disappointment over life or the marriage ..

 

KL, He must work at least four hours at a time ? .. and he is out with Cat for a few hours ... but forget the dates... He must be working enough of a stretch of time - for you to make a clean escape ? yes or no

[LucreziaBorgia]

Why would God tell him it is ok to cheat on his wife, and tell the wife who bore his children that she is not worth it and her children are illegitimate?

 

Answer?

 

HE WOULDN'T

 

Your husband is using God's name in the worst sort of way - talk about using His name in vain! He is USING GOD TO JUSTIFY ADULTERY.

 

You have got to stop letting him gaslight you into believing up is down, right is wrong, black is white, and that God thinks you deserve to be cheated on!

 

I wish I could come rescue you and your children from this manipulative monster. I wish you could leave before he talks you deeper into depression. I wish you could leave before it is too late, and get your children away from the influence of what I see as pure EVIL.

 

This is horrific for you and your children. I am speechless.

Edited March 22, 2010 by LucreziaBorgia

[KLmccaulley81]

Why would God tell him it is ok to cheat on his wife, and tell the wife who bore his children that she is not worth it and her children are illegitimate?

 

Answer?

 

HE WOULDN'T

 

Your husband is using God's name in the worst sort of way - talk about using His name in vain! He is USING GOD TO JUSTIFY ADULTERY.

 

You have got to stop letting him gaslight you into believing up is down, right is wrong, black is white, and that God thinks you deserve to be cheated on!

 

I wish I could come rescue you and your children from this manipulative monster. I wish you could leave before he talks you deeper into depression. I wish you could leave before it is too late, and get your children away from the influence of what I see as pure EVIL.

 

This is horrific for you and your children. I am speechless.

 

He says he is not cheating. He says he would leave me before he would ever cheat. His view of cheating is strictly physical. He says he won't even go there in his mind with this woman b/c of the fact that he feels cheating is "dishonorable" so he doesn't want to "Lose" his "honor". This is why I feel he is trying to decide between the two of us so he can make an "honorable" decision. if he decides to leave me then he would'nt be cheating b/c he would be divorced. therefore in his eyes he never cheated. but this could all be bull****. i know the man i knew before never would have cheated at all. the man i knew before loved me. how do i know this is really an affair? i don't want to leave and end up finding out she was just his friend and that they aren't even together like that. i'm a fool right.

[LucreziaBorgia]

how do i know this is really an affair?

 

His words, his actions, and his treatment of you and your children after he became "friends" with this woman.

 

Would you throw away your family to keep a friend?

 

Neither would he.

[KLmccaulley81]

I recognize the symptoms from my husband's affair ... But I still am not qualified, because I am not with your husband and cat.. But if he has turned on you and made you to feel inferior and blameful - what difference does it make, what the reason .. Do you think he is more justified to put you down the way he does, if there is no affair - and if it supposedly about his disappointment over life or the marriage ..

 

KL, He must work at least four hours at a time ? .. and he is out with Cat for a few hours ... but forget the dates... He must be working enough of a stretch of time - for you to make a clean escape ? yes or no

 

I could get away. I have the carseats out. I have all I need to go. I am not physically limited in any way. I am mentally limited. I am paralyzed by fear. This fear comes from what he says, or rather, I allow the fear b/c of what he says. I never thought this would happen to me. I never thought I might very well end up divorced. That is my fear. I realize I am in the same position if I stay. He still could leave and run off with cat and divorce me. but something about leaving is making me feel like i'm losing everything. like it will be the end of it all and i will never have the family i once did. i hate my life right now. i really do. sometimes i wish i wasn't pregnant so i could die. in fact, i have thought about how nice it would be to bleed to death after the baby comes. if i'm such a terrible wife why would i be a good mother. in fact, he says i'm not a good mother. maybe his good friend cat would be a better mother to my children.

[KLmccaulley81]

His words, his actions, and his treatment of you and your children after he became "friends" with this woman.

 

Would you throw away your family to keep a friend?

 

Neither would he.

 

Yeah, but he feels he isn't throwing away his family. He says even if we are divorced he will still be a good dad. He is throwing away me and the not the boys in his eyes. He feels I am selfish if I take them to Iowa b/c they need their father. He says that will be the ultimate act of selfishness on my part if I take the boys away from him. He told me that I can leave and that he can keep the boys. obviously he is throwing me away. he doesn't see that he'd be throwing all of us away in the long run b/c i need my family and they are in iowa. my boys would come with me b/c that's just how it would go.

[califnan]

He says he is not cheating. He says he would leave me before he would ever cheat. His view of cheating is strictly physical. He says he won't even go there in his mind with this woman b/c of the fact that he feels cheating is "dishonorable" so he doesn't want to "Lose" his "honor". This is why I feel he is trying to decide between the two of us so he can make an "honorable" decision. if he decides to leave me then he would'nt be cheating b/c he would be divorced. therefore in his eyes he never cheated. but this could all be bull****. i know the man i knew before never would have cheated at all. the man i knew before loved me. how do i know this is really an affair? i don't want to leave and end up finding out she was just his friend and that they aren't even together like that. i'm a fool right.

 

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KL - Maybe people will discount this notion. But in a Godly marriage, a man is Not supposed to have any woman other than his Wife.. This goes for daily personal communication .. and certainly, No meetings ..

 

He is Acting like he is so in-control .. but he should be Honoring his Wife's wishes ..

[LucreziaBorgia]

I could get away. I have the carseats out. I have all I need to go. I am not physically limited in any way. I am mentally limited. I am paralyzed by fear. This fear comes from what he says, or rather, I allow the fear b/c of what he says. I never thought this would happen to me. I never thought I might very well end up divorced. That is my fear. I realize I am in the same position if I stay. He still could leave and run off with cat and divorce me. but something about leaving is making me feel like i'm losing everything. like it will be the end of it all and i will never have the family i once did. i hate my life right now. i really do. sometimes i wish i wasn't pregnant so i could die. in fact, i have thought about how nice it would be to bleed to death after the baby comes. if i'm such a terrible wife why would i be a good mother. in fact, he says i'm not a good mother. maybe his good friend cat would be a better mother to my children.

 

Go to a quiet room alone. Turn down the lights. Close your eyes. Breath in and out slowly ten times, and then force yourself to empty your mind. Ask God for guidance. Do not let fear creep in. Do not let doubt creep in. Just wait with an empty mind for an answer. It will come, and even if it is not what you want to hear - it will not be the fear and doubt that your husband has forced you to feel about yourself. You have reached your point where there are only one set of footprints in that sand, if you get my drift.

 

Stop listening to him, to your fear and to your doubt. Step away for a second and see where that has gotten you. You are ready to die, and all because your husband refuses to stop having an affair! You are worth more than that. You are worth more. You hear me? Your children are worth more. If you cave in now, you cannot be the mother those children need. They do not need a man who cannot provide a positive role in their lives. They need a mother who is willing to rescue them from that.

 

i will never have the family i once did

 

Your husband and his OW have seen to that already. Time to mourn, and escape the fallout. Get in touch with that lawyer. The time is now.

[califnan]

I could get away. I have the carseats out. I have all I need to go. I am not physically limited in any way. I am mentally limited. I am paralyzed by fear. This fear comes from what he says, or rather, I allow the fear b/c of what he says. I never thought this would happen to me. I never thought I might very well end up divorced. That is my fear. I realize I am in the same position if I stay. He still could leave and run off with cat and divorce me. but something about leaving is making me feel like i'm losing everything. like it will be the end of it all and i will never have the family i once did. i hate my life right now. i really do. sometimes i wish i wasn't pregnant so i could die. in fact, i have thought about how nice it would be to bleed to death after the baby comes. if i'm such a terrible wife why would i be a good mother. in fact, he says i'm not a good mother. maybe his good friend cat would be a better mother to my children.

 

---------------------------

 

KL, You have described your husband to us ... Do you have Any idea how upset the other posters and your family would be if they knew that you are putting this man So high - as to deValue your own life in this manner..

 

Your "husband" is causing you to feel this way... When my husband left me after 22 years for the OW, they Demeaned me so much that I felt like a vegetable by the time those two got through with me .. ha (I can laugh now, because that was 24 yrs ago) .. You will never feel free, until you are free ... There are a lot worse things than being divorced .. All that matters is you and your children ...

 

Go to Iowa .. and make your husband meet you back on your turf (they still have gyms in Iowa, right?) .. I am afraid you are going to get Stuck in Calif with a confused husband - who, by your own admission - is making you feal fearful and extremely Insecure ..

 

Leave now, with your sons, before you have the baby - and get safe, before it's too late ..

[bentnotbroken]

Let's try this again:o Fear is the one thing we can control. Not the fear itself, but acting in spite of the fear. Fear is keeping you from loving yourself completely. Fear is keeping you from demanding the respect you deserve. Fear of the unknown is normal. But just because a situation is familiar doesn't mean it is where you should be.

 

You are in need of emotional support now....go to your family. Tell them everything. It is your priority to take care of you and your children. I haven't read the whole thread, but the word fear made me take notice. Sweetie fear and faith cannot dwell in the same place. Have some faith in you.

[KLmccaulley81]

You are giving him far too much credit. He's your husband and you love him. You don't want to question him. I get that.

HE IS NOT THE PERSON YOU KNEW IN IOWA. That person is gone. What you have is a man that is so involved in Cat (at whatever level), that he is willing to say ANYTHING to you to justify it.

You know what the truth is. He's already lied to you. Stop taking his word as gospel. He's like the addict who thinks he can handle it, and then finds himself doing things he never dreamt of doing to maintain his high. Except he wants you to be ok with it.

What does your family think of his behavior? Have you told his family he's doing this?

 

My family know somewhat and his family doesn't really know much at all. He will never forgive me if I tell them details about this. I know I am giving him too much credit. I really am. He has got me down so low that I feel like absolute sh*t about myself. He makes a real good case against me. He should be a lawyer. And most of what he says about me is true. which just furthers his case against me. i am the one who did everything wrong and ruined it all. according to him. My friend is set to pick me up tomorrow morning. Someone, anyone, just tell me that everything that is coming out of his mouth really is the AFFAIR and nothing else. Because I can't believe he would think about ending his marriage over problems that can be resolved. And every single one of his complaints can be resolved with help and with prayer and with love. He is just not willing to try. The part about him not being willing to try says to me that it has to do with this woman. Although he claims he was having all these doubts before he met her. But i do'nt believe that. maybe he was hurting but he wasn't doubting our marriage to the point of saying it is invalid and maybe he should never have been with me. obviously i am having a hard time deciphering his true feelings from those of the affair. and yet he still denies the affair.

[KLmccaulley81]

forgot to mention. the thing that happened in college before i was with him, which i just told him about a year ago.......

well, when i told him he was unhappy of course. and he started saying stuff like, why would you wait until we're married and 2 kids later to tell me this? maybe i never would have been with you had i known. now my whole perception has changed.

well, then he claimed that he was moving forward. we were doing okay. some ups and downs but we didn't talk about that issue again. now he's using it a year later and saying the same things but times 10. is it possible that this thing about college is really the main issue (and then with everything else that happened throughout the years...which is in my first post) and that he really does doubt our marriage because of it? or is it just an excuse? he is good at making me believe it is not an excuse but is valid b/c he feels he never would have dated me had he known. (i repeat, i did NOT have sex with the two guys from college, it was two separate occasions BEFORE i was with my husband and it involved drinking and obviously something sexual took place. but NOT intercourse , NOT at all) he says he has a moral value system and b/c of what happened with these two guys would have caused him to nto want to be with me. but he seems fine with all the stupid crap i did in highschool with guys. he doesn't even bring that up. maybe because he didn't know those people. i don't know. is it a valid excuse or is he just using it to justify his "friend" or "affair"?

[califnan]

My family know somewhat and his family doesn't really know much at all. He will never forgive me if I tell them details about this. I know I am giving him too much credit. I really am. He has got me down so low that I feel like absolute sh*t about myself. He makes a real good case against me. He should be a lawyer. And most of what he says about me is true. which just furthers his case against me. i am the one who did everything wrong and ruined it all. according to him. My friend is set to pick me up tomorrow morning. Someone, anyone, just tell me that everything that is coming out of his mouth really is the AFFAIR and nothing else. Because I can't believe he would think about ending his marriage over problems that can be resolved. And every single one of his complaints can be resolved with help and with prayer and with love. He is just not willing to try. The part about him not being willing to try says to me that it has to do with this woman. Although he claims he was having all these doubts before he met her. But i do'nt believe that. maybe he was hurting but he wasn't doubting our marriage to the point of saying it is invalid and maybe he should never have been with me. obviously i am having a hard time deciphering his true feelings from those of the affair. and yet he still denies the affair.

 

----------------------

 

If he is thinking about ending the marriage over differences than can be resolved.. and acting as if you are the sponge that is supposed to absorb all of His problems .. It doesn't matter to me if he is into a full affair.. He has made you feel so low that you wish to put it All on your shoulders of his actions - He would never forgive you if you told his family? .. He has got you so beaten down right now, it has got to end - for your sake and your children's .. ..

 

I am feeling so insecure with you there, I can't wait until you are free and safe..

[califnan]

forgot to mention. the thing that happened in college before i was with him, which i just told him about a year ago.......

well, when i told him he was unhappy of course. and he started saying stuff like, why would you wait until we're married and 2 kids later to tell me this? maybe i never would have been with you had i known. now my whole perception has changed.

well, then he claimed that he was moving forward. we were doing okay. some ups and downs but we didn't talk about that issue again. now he's using it a year later and saying the same things but times 10. is it possible that this thing about college is really the main issue (and then with everything else that happened throughout the years...which is in my first post) and that he really does doubt our marriage because of it? or is it just an excuse? he is good at making me believe it is not an excuse but is valid b/c he feels he never would have dated me had he known. (i repeat, i did NOT have sex with the two guys from college, it was two separate occasions BEFORE i was with my husband and it involved drinking and obviously something sexual took place. but NOT intercourse , NOT at all) he says he has a moral value system and b/c of what happened with these two guys would have caused him to nto want to be with me. but he seems fine with all the stupid crap i did in highschool with guys. he doesn't even bring that up. maybe because he didn't know those people. i don't know. is it a valid excuse or is he just using it to justify his "friend" or "affair"?

 

---------------------

 

It was over nine years and three children ago ... Work on getting back to Iowa ..

[LucreziaBorgia]

he says he has a moral value system

 

If he does, I have yet to see it.

 

Please get somewhere safe. For all you know he is trying to gaslight you into suicide so that he doesn't have to make a choice. From his deep manipulation, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

Get you and your children away from him.