Reformed other women

[pureinheart]

I cannot stand reformed people. Addicts, Born Again Christians, etc. I dont like the rhetoric basically because all of them have hit rock bottom usually in the form of addiction or jail prior to becoming reformed. Then, they insist on telling those they consider not reformed how to become like them. Hey, how about I just dont hit rock bottom like you? How about I clearly have not made your mistakes so ummm...I'm really not interested in your advice? I dont need to be born again to not screw up my life like you did. (Just an example, and may or may not reflect my religious beliefs)

 

Yeah I was like that. But NOW I am: Reformed OW.

And people here who have not been OW or BS ...are just like me when I tell converts that I dont need them to guide me with a moral compass to know I shouldnt be a drug addict or a criminal. I know these things without having done them.

 

As Reformed OW, I tell you all: That Way Lies Evil

 

There is a big difference between "former" and "reformed" as I have been a "reformed" everything, and thinking it may have had to do with lack of knowledge and understaning on my part. My heart was in the right place although I turned off a lot of people by operating in the reformed aspect.

 

Some people do have a gifting for the "evangelical", I don't.

 

Having found that meeting a person right where they are at works best, especially with those we don't know very well. Being a people person, it's easy to become familiar easily, although not all people are "people" oriantated as they have been hurt greatly.

 

People for the mostpart will do what they want anyway...I am not in control of what they do or don't do...

 

JMO...it's about control and resposibility...

 

Once I realise I am not in control of another persons life and I am not responsible for what someone else does, or what happens to them based on their choices, then I can be more effective in the councel I give... meaning based on MY experience, I can tell them MY truth. What they do with that is up to them...I have at that point done what is best to fit THEIR situation and not mine.

 

The above paragragh, FOR ME IMO, now having done all that I feel I can do, it is time for ME to get out of the way and let THEM make a decision to either talk to me or not.

 

Having a tendancy towards what you described 2Sure, which to me is the "reformed" aspect, I want to move into the "former" aspect...hoping this makes sense as most of the posters are passionate concerning what and how they believe, and most is based on learned experiences....and take this for what it is....

 

I was in a debate with Lawyers, Doctors, Psychiatrists (caps, not to suck up, but respect for their profession), panels for both sides...and there I was, virtually a nobody. I asked one of the panel debate members why had I been chosen to be a part of this debate...and they said (this was after the debate), yours was the most effective because it was a learned experience....I was nervous as hell and felt very ignorant next to the esteemed individuals there.

 

Could the real underlying issue be respect, or a lack thereof?

[jennie-jennie]

And? Your point is...?

 

So because I haven't put my toe in the ocean, that means I won't know that it will get wet?

 

Because I've never had banana flavored ice cream, I can't imagine what it would taste like?

 

Because I've never had a man cheat on me, I don't know it would hurt and I would feel betrayed?

 

Because I haven't f'd another woman's H I don't know I would feel guilty afterward?

 

Because I haven't gotten involved with a liar who led me down a path until I thought I loved him only to find he was married I wouldn't know what it would feel like to be a teensy little piece of his world, knowing if I pushed the issue I would be history?

 

It's easy enough to imagine. Especially with all the factual evidence here for the taking.

 

Not interested in talking to you anymore.

[jennie-jennie]

I cannot stand reformed people. Addicts, Born Again Christians, etc. I dont like the rhetoric basically because all of them have hit rock bottom usually in the form of addiction or jail prior to becoming reformed. Then, they insist on telling those they consider not reformed how to become like them. Hey, how about I just dont hit rock bottom like you? How about I clearly have not made your mistakes so ummm...I'm really not interested in your advice? I dont need to be born again to not screw up my life like you did. (Just an example, and may or may not reflect my religious beliefs)

 

Yeah I was like that. But NOW I am: Reformed OW.

And people here who have not been OW or BS ...are just like me when I tell converts that I dont need them to guide me with a moral compass to know I shouldnt be a drug addict or a criminal. I know these things without having done them.

 

As Reformed OW, I tell you all: That Way Lies Evil

 

This post interests me, 2sure, I do however feel I am not properly understanding it. Could you elaborate on it a bit?

[jennie-jennie]

Could the real underlying issue be respect, or a lack thereof?

 

Very valid point, Pure, we need to respect people where they are at and let them find their own truth. We can share our experiences but we should not put them down as a golden rule.

[2sure]

Jennie, I guess what I mean is...

 

I had many of the same thoughts that you & other OW currently have about affairs & MM - at the time that was OW myself.

 

I am not a judgemental or self rightous person by nature...Ive made way too many mistakes for that. No apologies there either.

 

But sometimes, I wish I could tell you and some others here: Look. I know what you think is happening. It isnt. This is not good for YOU.

 

See, but I know you wont believe me anyway.

Further - why should you.

[jennie-jennie]

I was in a debate with Lawyers, Doctors, Psychiatrists (caps, not to suck up, but respect for their profession), panels for both sides...and there I was, virtually a nobody. I asked one of the panel debate members why had I been chosen to be a part of this debate...and they said (this was after the debate), yours was the most effective because it was a learned experience....I was nervous as hell and felt very ignorant next to the esteemed individuals there.

 

Exactly.

 

(10 characters necessary)

[donnamaybe]

So if someone is going to see a counselor, they should only see a counselor who has personally experienced all the life experiences their patient is going to discuss with them?

 

Good luck finding a counselor with those qualifications.

[pureinheart]

So if someone is going to see a counselor, they should only see a counselor who has personally experienced all the life experiences their patient is going to discuss with them?

 

Good luck finding a counselor with those qualifications.

 

Actually some do...although DM, by no means...they are trained professionals equipped with the dynamics of particular behaviors...they will dig deep to see ...and are trained to do so.

 

We are lay people and yes a learned experience is best...it is the difdference between empathy and sympathy.

[White Flower]

White Flower, I wonder what it was in your post that merited deleting? I read it and saw nothing.

Some of it has been saved due to being quoted by others but not all of it. I was basically defending OWoman's (so-called rant) post because someone tried to knock it down without, IMHO, strong argument and used opinion as her tool instead.

 

We all know in the argumenation/debate community that if you want to strike someone's point down you must fight it with another fact, personal experience, or other valid point and not mere opinion laced bias. There was nothing wrong with OWoman's claim.

 

Maybe the person who requested my post be removed was offended when I asked how unembarrassing it might be to continuously fight with someone who teaches argumentation and critical thinking at the university level.

 

I might find myself willing to argue personal beliefs with OWoman, but nothing regarding facts, common sense, social issues or anything else laced with history or politics because she is just too brainy! She challenges me to think more critically and I respect her for that.

 

By the way, OWoman does not need me to defend her and might even feel embarrassed that I did. My apologies in advance if this caused her any embarrassment or unwanted attention.

[White Flower]

Actually some do...although DM, by no means...they are trained professionals equipped with the dynamics of particular behaviors...they will dig deep to see ...and are trained to do so.

 

We are lay people and yes a learned experience is best...it is the difdference between empathy and sympathy.

I may quote you on this, it is really good!

 

For those who don't know, empathy is so much better than sympathy because the one empathizing knows our pain or experience.

[donnamaybe]

Actually some do...although DM, by no means...they are trained professionals equipped with the dynamics of particular behaviors...they will dig deep to see ...and are trained to do so.

 

We are lay people and yes a learned experience is best...it is the difdference between empathy and sympathy.

 

People can still have insight. Other parallel experiences teach us a lot, if we pay attention.

 

Also, you might find a counselor who has the same experience that is currently giving you heartache, but they will have missed out on some opinion and life shaping experiences you've had and had others you haven't so they will be counseling from a different viewpoint.

 

Why would someone want counsel ONLY from someone with all the same experiences? All you'll get is the same answers you'd give yourself. The ones you want to hear.

Edited March 10, 2010 by donnamaybe

[White Flower]

People can still have insight. Other parallel experiences teach us a lot, if we pay attention.

 

Also, you might find a counselor who has the same experience that is currently giving you heartache, but they will have missed out on some opinion and life shaping experiences you've had and had others you haven't so they will be counseling from a different viewpoint.

 

Why would someone want counsel ONLY from someone with all the same experiences? All you'll get is the same answers you'd give yourself. The ones you want to hear.

That would be true if we all wanted the same things but obviously we don't. Every story has its own outcome. Besides, who would chose (and pay) for a counselor to tell us what we want to hear. I can go to the mirror for that and it's free.

[donnamaybe]

That would be true if we all wanted the same things but obviously we don't. Every story has its own outcome. Besides, who would chose (and pay) for a counselor to tell us what we want to hear. I can go to the mirror for that and it's free.

 

Or you can listen to only certain people on LS and for the others, put your hands over your ears and say, "La la la, I can't hear youuuu!"

[JustJoe]

This thread started out very interesting, especially for me a newly ex-OM. Now it's turning into a personality clash. I have found lots of ideas of value , and want to learn more, please for the sake of a "newbie", lets be civil, OKaY?:D

[moaningmyrtle]

Hmm a post of mine has gone too. Perhaps I am banned.

[donnamaybe]

This thread started out very interesting, especially for me a newly ex-OM. Now it's turning into a personality clash. I have found lots of ideas of value , and want to learn more, please for the sake of a "newbie", lets be civil, OKaY?:D

 

I'm all about civility, but I won't be summarily dismissed by someone who doesn't like my viewpoint, grasping at the fact that I'm not an OW or a BS as a reason that anything I have to say is invalid.

 

Peace Joe!

[JustJoe]

How could I ever be upset with a face like that? Peace and Love, Donna.

[pureinheart]

Very valid point, Pure, we need to respect people where they are at and let them find their own truth. We can share our experiences but we should not put them down as a golden rule.

 

Yes!

 

Jennie, I have disrespected people in the past because they didnot conform to MY way of doing business. I did this with exDM...I have seen this in operation and it was ugly, I have been ugly and donot choose to be ugly any longer.

 

You know Jennie...A or no A, in the beginning exDM and me were connected like I have only seen once in my time...there was a trust a bond (and the people at work saw it and were jealous of it) that there are no words to describe.

 

I was a good experience for him and vice versa , at least in some ways.

 

To deny, explain away the love would be to deny me...if his heart was not right or in the wrong place...lol...not my problem, I know who I am and what I felt.

 

Ok...on a tangent again, although this thread has been very healing for me...and now I have settled in my mind the difference between reformed and former...Thanks Jennie!

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, I guess what I mean is...

 

I had many of the same thoughts that you & other OW currently have about affairs & MM - at the time that was OW myself.

 

I am not a judgemental or self rightous person by nature...Ive made way too many mistakes for that. No apologies there either.

 

But sometimes, I wish I could tell you and some others here: Look. I know what you think is happening. It isnt. This is not good for YOU.

 

See, but I know you wont believe me anyway.

Further - why should you.

 

Got it, thanks, 2sure. Well, you know how it is, nobody stops before they hit their own rock bottom.

[pureinheart]

Want to interject on my own post...using the term ugly...am referring to me and my past situations...noone on LS...

 

I re-read it and thought OMG I don't want anyone to take this wrong because it could sound bad...

[donnamaybe]

Want to interject on my own post...using the term ugly...am referring to me and my past situations...noone on LS...

 

I re-read it and thought OMG I don't want anyone to take this wrong because it could sound bad...

 

I don't think anyone would take it that way.

 

I would be interested in some examples of "reformed OW" badgering that has been going on. I would like to see if I would view it as someone being "ugly" or just the receiver of the information possibly not liking what they are hearing. Is that against the terms to link example posts?

[jennie-jennie]

To deny, explain away the love would be to deny me...if his heart was not right or in the wrong place...lol...not my problem, I know who I am and what I felt.

 

Very important words. They give me goose bumps! These are the wisest words I have read in a long time.

[ladydesigner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pureinheart

To deny, explain away the love would be to deny me...if his heart was not right or in the wrong place...lol...not my problem, I know who I am and what I felt.

 

Very important words. They give me goose bumps! These are the wisest words I have read in a long time.

Yes they are very wise words. I am on board with this POV as well. Thanks for that pureinheart. This will help me let go of my anger as my XOM heart just was not in the right place. Thank you I feel I have gained an acceptance for my situation.

[Got it]

Again I agree with OWoman.

 

Reformed means to me "reformed" formed again. In other words, to me, giving the impression of a change of ways. A change of ways for the better, thusly indicating before was "bad".

 

I do enjoy the sterotypes of affairs. Not saying there aren't ones that only get snatches of time but I saw him as much as one would see a spouse. There were no best parts. There we just parts. And the idea that one only sees the good of the person in the affair. Please! You know what, partake in an affair and see if that is true.

 

To deviate from the original thread, I was not in an affair for an affair. I was in it for the man and it happened to entail an EMR. We had ground rules and boundaries and I had clearly defined expectation. Like OWoman and others have indicated, a happy OW/OM is one that clearly understands this and understands what they are bringing to the table. It is not the MP doing them a favor. The OW who end up in unbalanced relationships (like MANY other relationships) is when one party losses sight of this. If you have inbalance in a relationship, one party is going to be unhappy.

 

Like other relationship, not all EMR are meant to go on forever. What is the success rate of marriages? What is the success rate of pre-M relationships? Given that more fail than succeed, the success rates are pretty equal.

 

Speaking for myself, my EMR was no different than any other relationship. Any silence on our end was more due to work industry ties than anything else. There was no way I would be in any relationship where I am compromising more than I am comfortable doing. Why? Because I know what makes me happy and what I need to be happy. And I do not believe that the MP gets any "outs" because of it. I think that is mistake number 1 for many OP.

 

And I also do not think this board is a good representation of affairs out there. In fact it differs from other OP forums out there. When unhappy, people seek out support. Thusly the larger group of unhappy people. Look at the marriage boards. If we are going by comparisions I would argue that the vast number of marriages are unhappy ones. I like to think that is not the case.

 

Sorry for my rant. Digesting multiple pages in one post.

[ladydesigner]

The OW who end up in unbalanced relationships (like MANY other relationships) is when one party losses sight of this. If you have inbalance in a relationship, one party is going to be unhappy.

 

Yes the relationship with my XOM when it started we both agreed it was for fun, distraction, we were both unhappy with our partners at the time, etc etc. But then we started falling for each other and I really started to fall for him. I believe my side became unbalanced and upon him ending things I was the unhappy one.