Passion vs in love

[jennie-jennie]

During my H's A (brief EA)' date=' the sex was some of the most imaginative we'd had from his end. I think the A reignited his sexual curiosity in ways our marriage and his feelings about the state of our marriage, simply did not.[/quote']

 

(Note: I am using the words marital and spouse in this post to simplify although I never was married, as in my country the law equals long term relationships under certain conditions to marriage.)

 

NID, I believe the key word in your post is brief. MM and I were both in relationships when our affair started. The affair certainly gave our sex drive and therefore also our marital sex life a boost - the first half a year of our relationship.

 

Then my MM started having problems with ED (erectile dysfunction), largely I believe due to the guilt he was feeling for being in two relationships. Eventually he conquered this, and now has no problems at all, rather the opposite.

 

What happened in our marital relationships was that our interest for our respective spouses dwindled until finally there was no attraction left for the spouse at all. I know for me the last time I had sex with my SO, it just felt plain wrong, since he was no longer the man towards whom my sexual desire was directed.

 

So the heightened marital sex life you are describing above, NID, I believe to be very common in the beginning stages of an affair, and since your husband's affair was brief that was (fortunately) all you got to see.

Edited March 17, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[OWoman]

A sex doesn't have the baggage that M sex has (debt, kids, old fights, In laws, chores, worries, fears etc etc), so I can understand why A sex can be intense for simply for the lack of pressure outside the bedroom.

 

I think that would apply in the case of a fling, but not a LTA, where there is indeed baggage - many of the same issues, plus added worries concerning any BSs, any guilt the MP may feel, any fear of discovery, etc.

 

If anything, A sex has MORE pressure outside the bedroom than M sex - you have two people, each with their own issues (debt, kids, old fights, in-laws, chores, worries, fears, etc) that they separately bring - and share with each other - as well as those issues they have as a couple (old fights, mutual friends, R issues, chores, worries, fears, etc), plus the added stresses and strains of it being an A, hidden in most cases (guilt, fear of discovery, etc). It's testimony to the power of passion that the APs can muster any arousal at all, given the package of downers they have to overcome!

[crazycatlady]

I think that would apply in the case of a fling, but not a LTA, where there is indeed baggage - many of the same issues, plus added worries concerning any BSs, any guilt the MP may feel, any fear of discovery, etc.

 

If anything, A sex has MORE pressure outside the bedroom than M sex - you have two people, each with their own issues (debt, kids, old fights, in-laws, chores, worries, fears, etc) that they separately bring - and share with each other - as well as those issues they have as a couple (old fights, mutual friends, R issues, chores, worries, fears, etc), plus the added stresses and strains of it being an A, hidden in most cases (guilt, fear of discovery, etc). It's testimony to the power of passion that the APs can muster any arousal at all, given the package of downers they have to overcome!

 

I think I'm looking more at the beginning. Where does the hook get set. But you could also point out that due to the A, that M sex now also has added guilt by one partner, the knowledging in the gut that something is wrong by the other partner, and possibly pressure from the AP for no marital sex, making it still the worse type of sex from an emotional background.

 

Sex though when chemestry and passion is great is a great way to turn off the mind. Or so I've always found.

[Luv2dance]

My first question is how do you define passionate?? I have been struggling with this issue most of my married years b/c I have never felt like I have passionate sex w/ MH. It is enjoyable and I get pleasure but there is something missing. Now I have to wonder if I even have love sex b/c this has never happened...

He must cup my face, to hold my face still while he kisses me. He needs to be looking into my eyes, we almost breath together. Its almost always a missionary position because that is how I feel the most charished, protected, safe, that's he's going to take care of me.

 

I understand that the lust goes away but I feel like if the connection is truly there then you should still "feel" something during/after sex. I haven't ever related it to FWB but that is almost how it feels...only for me the sex isn't wild!

 

In my mind it does seem like settling but I do agree that you are the only one who knows whats in your heart.

[ladydesigner]

He must cup my face, to hold my face still while he kisses me. He needs to be looking into my eyes, we almost breath together. Its almost always a missionary position because that is how I feel the most charished, protected, safe, that's he's going to take care of me.

 

This post when I read it and re-read, it makes me sad that I do not have this in my marriage. I think that my H may feel this way but I do not and have not since the first year of our relationship. I love my H just not in this way anymore. I definitely had this with my first love. My first love also broke my heart and I never really opened my heart back up like that again until my XAP. I felt this with him, he also broke my heart.

 

I definitely have passion in my M. I love the sex I have with my H. It is by far the best sex I have ever had with anyone (XAP included and btw he was horrible in bed). I just do not have that deep gazing into the eyes and lovemaking with my H anymore. Maybe I can let some of my guard down to see if I can re-connect with my H in that way. I don't think I have really given it a try lately.

[White Flower]

Yet it's much more than just hot sex. It really is re-claimed intimacy.

Whatever it is I'm not complaining about it. I hope that it does give us a better chance of "saving" our marriage. If not I suppose we'll have fun trying.

 

To the extent that I can tell, it feels like love/passion/intimacy/affection/honesty rolled into one.

 

My H, the wayward one, says that it beats A sex for several reasons, that I wont repeat. But one is because of the genuine honesty - ie he no longer has to sneak around pretending and lying to somebody.

 

Just so I'm not accused of gloating, the pragmatist in me says if he'd decided to leave to be with the OW then he would be able to say exactly the same thing.

I think this is an honest post.

 

First of all, I am happy that R is working out for you and that there is a reconnection and true intimacy.

 

And your last statement is a good one because had your H felt those things with the OW he would have left, and yes, would have said those things about her.

 

It really depends on where the real intimacy is, even if he had to sneak around to get it.

 

Please repeat! I'm one of those who can take it (when I'm not sick and on antibiotics:cool:). Knowledge is power!

[crazycatlady]

My first question is how do you define passionate?? I have been struggling with this issue most of my married years b/c I have never felt like I have passionate sex w/ MH. It is enjoyable and I get pleasure but there is something missing. Now I have to wonder if I even have love sex b/c this has never happened...

 

 

I understand that the lust goes away but I feel like if the connection is truly there then you should still "feel" something during/after sex. I haven't ever related it to FWB but that is almost how it feels...only for me the sex isn't wild!

 

In my mind it does seem like settling but I do agree that you are the only one who knows whats in your heart.

 

Passionate? To me, passionate is when you can't just lay there and do it. Your hands have to be moving, your mouth always touching, licking, kissing, biting, your heart pounds, you sweat, you moan and groan, you can't get enough of each other, almost as if you are trying to climb into the skin of that other person. Oh its a heady thing. Every part of each other you want to devore. Hmmmmm

 

I love sex of all types.

 

CCL

[ladydesigner]

Passionate? To me, passionate is when you can't just lay there and do it. Your hands have to be moving, your mouth always touching, licking, kissing, biting, your heart pounds, you sweat, you moan and groan, you can't get enough of each other, almost as if you are trying to climb into the skin of that other person. Oh its a heady thing. Every part of each other you want to devore. Hmmmmm

 

I love sex of all types.

 

CCL

 

I definitely do not have this with my H. I love having sex with him, but I definitely do not feel like devouring him.

 

What would "in-love" be? God I hope I at least have that.

[crazycatlady]

Ladydesigner - Remember these are only what i tend to think the types of sex are. I'm also a very highly sexual person. Which is odd if you knew me in person because I don't touch people. I hate to be touched as well. Its only a very few lucky people I feel comfortable touching. It almost might be because I do get aroused quickly.

 

I don't see a different between love and in love. Romantic love is romantic love, in or out, I've never really understood the difference. So what I need to feel loved, I would think would be similar to in love sex. Or really any sex that there is a connection that goes beyond physical. The touching tends to be slow, more concern about your lover's pleasure then your own, a tenderness, thoroughness in your caresses. Its gentler, softer, its savoring of a fine wine that is your lover. There is laughter, and lots of loving looks. No rush to reach the finish line because you are so on fire for each other. But rather indulgence in the act of pleasing each other.

 

Well that's my take on it. That would be love sex...and the in love soulmate connection, to make me feel truly loved is the one I talked about before.

 

CCL

[wheelwright]

Passionate? To me, passionate is when you can't just lay there and do it. Your hands have to be moving, your mouth always touching, licking, kissing, biting, your heart pounds, you sweat, you moan and groan, you can't get enough of each other, almost as if you are trying to climb into the skin of that other person. Oh its a heady thing. Every part of each other you want to devore. Hmmmmm

 

I love sex of all types.

 

CCL

 

I don't love sex of all types. I only like it if my heart is in it. I can physically enjoy it if this isn't the case, but I only get a 'me' kick out of it if I'm in love. I was the same on ecstasy (I wasn't much into drugs but I tried) it just wasn't real. Pleasure without the heart is no pleasure at all.

 

In my youth, i had enough bad sex to know what that was. Then I met my H and had good sex. Voila! Then at the age of 39 I had sex with xAP and I really knew what sex was all about. Making love. Something like CCL describes but more, because not only are you in each other's heads at the point of ecstacy (which is every point on the way too), but you want to be there 100%. Heart, mind and soul.

 

I am not joking when I say it was on a par with giving birth to my first child and all the beautiful baby moments I had. It was a beautiful experience.

 

Seeing as I only had it at 39, I don't think everyone even gets to have that one.

 

I feel lucky to have had it, and am becoming slowly accustomed to the fact it's gone for now.

 

I don't believe I will have that with another man. I know what it was.

[Fallen Angel]

I definitely do not have this with my H. I love having sex with him, but I definitely do not feel like devouring him.

 

What would "in-love" be? God I hope I at least have that.

 

Ladyd,

 

I have said before, and I stand by what I said, that what you are feeling, the doubts you are experiencing, has little to do with the actual act of sex, and is instead about a "connection" or lack thereof that you are feeling.

 

Feeling sexually attracted to someone, even to the point of feeling hungry for them is easy. It is all physical, chemical. It can even occur between two people that have never met before. It is especially common after a traumatic experience, hence the term Hysterical Bonding, where you use the sex act as a way of reaffirming life. (Common after a couple loses a child, after an affair is outed {even if the couple ultimately does not reconcile the relationship}, after a near death experience, or a percieved fear of such {ie couples in New York screwing like rabbits immediately following 9/11}.

 

Sometimes that kind of extreme passion is a regular occurance in a relationship, sometimes it is not. But a relationship is not ultimately sustainable on passion alone. It needs emotional connection to be truly fulfilling.

 

It is the yearning to be with that person, even if sex were impossible {ie if there was a tragic illness that would negate the possibility of sex}. It is the desire to know what they know, to share everything. It is a feeling of knowing that you can just be when you are with them, and the way that you feel when they just are when they are with you.

 

It is the wanting to do the small things for each other. The knowledge in your heart that you are willing to put this other person's needs and desires above your own, knowing that they are willing to do the same for you. That is the connection, in my opinion that you seek.

 

On the physical side of this are the tingles when he reaches across the table to take the dish you offer, and his hand grazes yours. It is the butterflies you still feel when you see him notice you from across the room and smile. It is the way he slowly traces the planes of your face, looking in your eyes, and slowly studying what he percieves to be the perfection of your beauty. It is the half a moments hesitaion that he has before he kisses you, when he breathes you in. (My Sweetheart refers to this as "tasting my essence", he says that it is in that half a moment when he can feel the heat of my lips, even though our lips are not touching, that he can smell my scent which is uniquely mine, and can at the same time taste me in that little intake of breath.} That is the kind of connection that you seek, in my opinion.

 

I do not know if it is something that you have to feel instinctively with someone, or if it is something that you have to work at. I hope for your sake that it is something you can find. I think the first step in trying to find it with your husband is for you to be completely honest with him about the fact that you are feeling a disconnect. You are feeling a void, and that you want him to be the one to help you fill it. He can not afterall fix what he does not know is broken.

 

My recomendation is that you carve out a time when you and he can have a whole day, to sit and talk, and get very honest with each other. I fear that if you do not do this soon, it will be too late.

 

Good luck to you ladyd. May you find the love you are looking for. ((hugs))

[NoIDidn't]

LadyD

 

I agree with CCL. I wouldn't worry about whether I felt "in love" or not, so long as I felt loving and a reciprocated loving feeling from my H. If you are enjoying what you guys have, that's all that really matters.

[crazycatlady]

LadyD - I have to second FA. The physical aspect, I said I love sex every type, even bad sex can be enjoyable as long as its consensual. I'm in an open marriage for a reason. Yes I have amazing sex with H, but what FA brings up is very important.

 

These stood out the most

 

It is the yearning to be with that person, even if sex were impossible {ie if there was a tragic illness that would negate the possibility of sex}. It is the desire to know what they know, to share everything. It is a feeling of knowing that you can just be when you are with them, and the way that you feel when they just are when they are with you.

 

It is the wanting to do the small things for each other. The knowledge in your heart that you are willing to put this other person's needs and desires above your own, knowing that they are willing to do the same for you. That is the connection, in my opinion that you seek.

 

These are the reasons that I have accepted the pain and the possibility of more pain. Because I know what we have at the core is beyond sex. We balance each other, bring out the part of each other that is sometimes lacking, and dampening the more excessive parts of the other so that our life flames are strong and steady. All with just being who we are.

 

CCL

(I still don't think there is a difference between love and in love, especially not with what FA is talking about. Devotion is love not in or out about it)

[Fallen Angel]

(I still don't think there is a difference between love and in love, especially not with what FA is talking about. Devotion is love not in or out about it)

 

I think there is a distinction between the two.

 

I love my exH still, despite the years of physical and emotional abuse he heaped upon me.

 

I love him for the man that I know he has the capacity to be. I love him because he is the father of my children. I love him because he is a damaged soul, in need of love.

 

I am not, however, in love with him.

 

I never experienced the bond with him that I have with My Sweetheart, not even in the beginning of our relationship. Not even durring the best of times with him. it was not until I was in love with a man who is also in love with me that I saw the distinct difference between the two.

[White Flower]

Ladyd,

 

I have said before, and I stand by what I said, that what you are feeling, the doubts you are experiencing, has little to do with the actual act of sex, and is instead about a "connection" or lack thereof that you are feeling.

 

Feeling sexually attracted to someone, even to the point of feeling hungry for them is easy. It is all physical, chemical. It can even occur between two people that have never met before. It is especially common after a traumatic experience, hence the term Hysterical Bonding, where you use the sex act as a way of reaffirming life. (Common after a couple loses a child, after an affair is outed {even if the couple ultimately does not reconcile the relationship}, after a near death experience, or a percieved fear of such {ie couples in New York screwing like rabbits immediately following 9/11}.

 

Sometimes that kind of extreme passion is a regular occurance in a relationship, sometimes it is not. But a relationship is not ultimately sustainable on passion alone. It needs emotional connection to be truly fulfilling.

 

It is the yearning to be with that person, even if sex were impossible {ie if there was a tragic illness that would negate the possibility of sex}. It is the desire to know what they know, to share everything. It is a feeling of knowing that you can just be when you are with them, and the way that you feel when they just are when they are with you.

 

It is the wanting to do the small things for each other. The knowledge in your heart that you are willing to put this other person's needs and desires above your own, knowing that they are willing to do the same for you. That is the connection, in my opinion that you seek.

 

On the physical side of this are the tingles when he reaches across the table to take the dish you offer, and his hand grazes yours. It is the butterflies you still feel when you see him notice you from across the room and smile. It is the way he slowly traces the planes of your face, looking in your eyes, and slowly studying what he percieves to be the perfection of your beauty. It is the half a moments hesitaion that he has before he kisses you, when he breathes you in. (My Sweetheart refers to this as "tasting my essence", he says that it is in that half a moment when he can feel the heat of my lips, even though our lips are not touching, that he can smell my scent which is uniquely mine, and can at the same time taste me in that little intake of breath.} That is the kind of connection that you seek, in my opinion.

 

I do not know if it is something that you have to feel instinctively with someone, or if it is something that you have to work at. I hope for your sake that it is something you can find. I think the first step in trying to find it with your husband is for you to be completely honest with him about the fact that you are feeling a disconnect. You are feeling a void, and that you want him to be the one to help you fill it. He can not afterall fix what he does not know is broken.

 

My recomendation is that you carve out a time when you and he can have a whole day, to sit and talk, and get very honest with each other. I fear that if you do not do this soon, it will be too late.

 

Good luck to you ladyd. May you find the love you are looking for. ((hugs))

FA, what a beautiful post.

 

I found all this with MM and I now know there was no way on earth I could have worked on obtaining this level of intimacy with my now exH. I wish (for the sake of all M) that we could have but I no longer believe every M can find this kind of perfect love. As in my signature, I believe there needs to be at least three components to a successful love relationship and those are chemistry, intimacy, and love.

 

First of all there must be chemistry; if it isn't there then there is no working on anything else. You can't force a square peg into a round hole no matter how hard you try. Most As have chemistry, no doubt. But not all Ms have it and my guess is because we marry so young that oftentimes we do not even know how to measure our own chemistry with that of another.

 

Second, when you have the kind of intimacy to share your deepest darkest secrets without fear of losing the other then you have a trust that nobody can cross. (This CAN actually be found in As). Another example of intimacy is being able to trust your lover to take a flashlight to your privates for examination and not be afraid. Intimacy is baring your body and soul to your lover and knowing he will love you even more for it.

 

Third is love. I loved my H for 25 years but we did not have the other two elements in our M to make it survive. When I realized this I quit blaming my exH on many levels. We just didn't have 'it', the combination of elements that make a great love.

 

FA, I loved how you used the term, 'hungry for the other partner'. I never ever felt that feeling for anyone but my sweetie (MM). I often compare him to a 7 course meal when we make love. Complete with dessert.

 

And I bolded the parts about how he notices (what he perceives as) the perfection of your beauty. MM does this with me as well. He looks at me until he has burned my face into his memory to last him for days (he says for an eternity:rolleyes:). Just the other day he surprised me with a visit and took me to a Starbucks where he bought me a bottled water. I looked away from him as I sipped from the bottle and when I looked back I found him staring at me. I asked what that silly look on his face was and he said, 'You're even cute when you drink from a bottle!'.

 

THAT, my friends, is LOVE! (Cause I know I ain't that cute!)

[jennie-jennie]

It is the yearning to be with that person

 

That to me is the difference between in love and love: the yearning. That consuming desire inside to be with the other.

 

I love many people. I love my exes. But I only yearn for one man.

[Luv2dance]

Well damn, now I feel very sad b/c I do not have passionate or loving sex with MH. Which I guess I have known for a long time, but reading your descriptions makes me sure. It's not that it's bad sex or a bad relationship but the "connection" is definitely missing.

 

So, the question now is can i live like this forever?? Or like the OP says is that settling?

[bestplayer]

Well damn, now I feel very sad b/c I do not have passionate or loving sex with MH. Which I guess I have known for a long time, but reading your descriptions makes me sure. It's not that it's bad sex or a bad relationship but the "connection" is definitely missing.

 

So, the question now is can i live like this forever?? Or like the OP says is that settling?

 

no you can't live like this forever , eventually you will fall in love with someone with whom u can find the connection .

[jennie-jennie]

no you can't live like this forever , eventually you will fall in love with someone with whom u can find the connection .

 

And that's when it risks becoming an affair, if you can't find it in yourself to end your marriage.

[Luv2dance]

no you can't live like this forever , eventually you will fall in love with someone with whom u can find the connection .

 

I'm wondering though if this isn't the "fairytale" version of life and I know that it does exsist in some M's, but is it unrealistic?? I guess that's where the delima and guilt comes in b/c do you disrupt an entire family to look for the "connection"

 

OP sorry, for the thread h/j...this just really hit home.

[jennie-jennie]

I'm wondering though if this isn't the "fairytale" version of life and I know that it does exsist in some M's, but is it unrealistic?? I guess that's where the delima and guilt comes in b/c do you disrupt an entire family to look for the "connection"

 

OP sorry, for the thread h/j...this just really hit home.

 

I am sure there are a lot of WS out there who have a lot to say on this topic. My MM sure does. He did fine without that connection until he found it with me.

[Just a stone's throw]

Well, I'm right there with you, L2D. That realization is right where I am at. I love my H. I do have good sex. I may be looking for the fairytale that may never present itself. Does it exist? Would it exist for me? I had the overwhelming all-consuming passionate sex with exMM and I think it ruined me. Not in love with him, but in love with how I felt when we were together. But what happens when we get older and the sex doesn't become all-important? I think I would miss the true loving R with my H. Very confusing and frustrating. Sounds like here, there are those that have the best of both worlds, some of us may have to accept the good things/blessings that we have.

[ladydesigner]

Wow thanks FA, CCC, NID, and JAST (short for Just a Stone's Throw lol)

 

I am happy with the love with my H. I think I do need to discuss a disconnect as FA mentioned with my H. We do enjoy each other's company and laugh a lot and do a lot together, have a lot in common, etc.

 

I think the A gave me that new and exciting feeling which I miss, but also know is short-lived. I do believe my connection with my H is much stronger than it would be with my XAP if we had become partners. I do so wish to get those "butterflies" and feelings of "yearning" for my H the way I did with my XAP. I will discuss more with the H and start having more open and honest discussions about our disconnect.

 

Everything that has been said makes sense. It really is a tragedy when that connection is lost. I believe mine is due to much resentment over the years about things my H has done and irresponsible decisions he has made. I feel like I have lost a bit of respect for him and I need to gain that back somehow. He has been putting in the work to try to make things better I have to give him that.

 

Thanks again

[crazycatlady]

That to me is the difference between in love and love: the yearning. That consuming desire inside to be with the other.

 

I love many people. I love my exes. But I only yearn for one man.

 

I can see what you are saying. I am not sure I've ever loved anyone but my H and my first kiss with that type of yearning. And while the yearning for the first kiss has faded, I couldn't say that its gone, just faded. I don't know.

 

LadyD - I think you can do it, if you both work at it. Do you get time apart? I think time apart can be a very healthy thing if done right.

 

CCL