Internet causes cheating, or not?

[calizaggy]

There are monks who are celibate every day of their entire lives, people who willingly sacrifice their life for an ideal or principle, and morally grounded people who refuse to submit to temptation when faced with horrible torture, and you submit to us that a man cannot resist throwing himself at a naked woman? What is so difficult about breaking things off first before partaking in sex. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Not everyone is as selfish as you.

 

You are so full of crap. I'm so tired of sniveling weaklings posting on here about their lack of character. It's all affairs and dishonesty and hurting people. I'm done with this site.

 

Basically yes..

 

Of course they COULD, if for example their child's life was on it, or something of that nature, but I feel most men do not view touching a woman and nobody else finding out as something so horrible.. They consider themselves lucky to finally be in the moment they have been dreaming about.

 

If a man is married for several years, and comfortable at home, why break off an entire life for touching another woman for a few minutes? I can go as far as to say it might be a bit selfish for some lazy woman who might let herself go to EXPECT she owns every aspect of that man forever. Especially his most powerful and enjoyable urges (Some would say his reason for living) which would be sex and women.

 

Do most of you women really think that your boyfriends/husbands only desire you? And if the circumstances were right they would not act on their desires?

 

I was questioning a Bulgarian friend of mine's taste in women he wants to and has cheated with and he said "I am married so of course I am not as picky..In Bulgaria we say when you are married every other woman is beautiful"

Edited March 12, 2010 by calizaggy

[Silver_star]

Basically yes..

 

Of course they COULD, if for example their child's life was on it, or something of that nature, but I feel most men do not view touching a woman and nobody else finding out as something so horrible.. They consider themselves lucky to finally be in the moment they have been dreaming about.

 

If a man is married for several years, and comfortable at home, why break off an entire life for touching another woman for a few minutes? I can go as far as to say it might be a bit selfish for some lazy woman who might let herself go to EXPECT she owns every aspect of that man forever. Especially his most powerful and enjoyable urges (Some would say his reason for living) which would be sex and women.

 

Do most of you women really think that your boyfriends/husbands only desire you? And if the circumstances were right they would not act on their desires?

 

I was questioning a Bulgarian friend of mine's taste in women he wants to and has cheated with and he said "I am married so of course I am not as picky..In Bulgaria we say when you are married every other woman is beautiful"

 

If what you say is true in your mind then i am sorry for you. Have fun with that.

[burning 4 revenge]

That raises the interesting question whether a truly consensual open marriage is better than no marriage at all or a marriage nuked by infidelity.

 

And if it's "better", for whom and how? Perhaps when young children are involved an OM can keep both mom and dad at home for the kids. Perhaps family continuity and longevity is of greater value than strict adherence to marital vows.

 

Is fidelity always the greatest good?

 

Or is this norm overrated?

I dont know why people bother with open marriages. In fact in this day and age I think its best to live together and just skip it

[Stung]

Basically yes..

 

Of course they COULD, if for example their child's life was on it, or something of that nature, but I feel most men do not view touching a woman and nobody else finding out as something so horrible..

 

Do most of you women really think that your boyfriends/husbands only desire you? And if the circumstances were right they would not act on their desires?

 

 

That right there is exactly what people have been trying to illustrate for you: ethics. Character. A man with a strong ethical character who places a high value on personal honor and integrity and believes in monogamy WILL view touching women, even if nobody else finds out, as a bad thing. Many men do not have all those qualities, it's true. It seems that you believe those qualities to be vanishingly rare as you are not possessed of them yourself; I don't think they're as endangered as you believe.

 

I don't think my husband will never desire other women, no. I also don't think I will never desire other men. We are human beings with high sex drives. However, we also respect ourselves, each other, and our marriage, and place high values on personal honor and integrity.

 

You conflate impulse with action when you illogically correlate not having sex with strange women off of Craigslist with never experiencing attraction for anyone other than your wife, and seem unclear on the definition of ethics. Perhaps this says more about your impulse control and ethical boundaries than it does about men in general.

[Barky]

The internet doesn't "cause" cheating but it--like anything that brings people closer together--does help facilitate it.

[burning 4 revenge]

That right there is exactly what people have been trying to illustrate for you: ethics. Character. A man with a strong ethical character who places a high value on personal honor and integrity and believes in monogamy WILL view touching women, even if nobody else finds out, as a bad thing. Many men do not have all those qualities, it's true. It seems that you believe those qualities to be vanishingly rare as you are not possessed of them yourself; I don't think they're as endangered as you believe.

 

I don't think my husband will never desire other women, no. I also don't think I will never desire other men. We are human beings with high sex drives. However, we also respect ourselves, each other, and our marriage, and place high values on personal honor and integrity.

 

You conflate impulse with action when you illogically correlate not having sex with strange women off of Craigslist with never experiencing attraction for anyone other than your wife, and seem unclear on the definition of ethics. Perhaps this says more about your impulse control and ethical boundaries than it does about men in general.

Nah its not about impulse control

 

If youre bored with your partner, youre bored. The internet makes it easy to wander

 

Id like to think if I respected my partner Id break it off first, but I cant say I would. Maybe she would be comfortable. Maybe I would love her and not want to lose her

 

Id justify it by saying to myself that I was just cheating on her body, but I would never cheat on her soul. The body is disgusting, filthy and ephemeral, but the soul is beautiful, pure and eternal.

 

And then Id go off and dip the stick

[calizaggy]

That right there is exactly what people have been trying to illustrate for you: ethics. Character. A man with a strong ethical character who places a high value on personal honor and integrity and believes in monogamy WILL view touching women, even if nobody else finds out, as a bad thing. Many men do not have all those qualities, it's true. It seems that you believe those qualities to be vanishingly rare as you are not possessed of them yourself; I don't think they're as endangered as you believe.

 

.

 

Poll after poll asked women what male they fantasized about the most.. The winner?

 

Bill Clinton.. Serial cheater. They were not fantasizing about the guy who can never get laid, but is nice and would never cheat.

 

So were women naming him as some disgusting guy who possesses no ethics and horrible character? No..Women fantasized about him.

 

A man's entire character is not built upon who he has sex with.. Is it is fault if many women want him? Is his character less than they guy who gets no women at all, so he has no choice in the matter of cheating or not cheating?

[Barky]

Poll after poll asked women what male they fantasized about the most.. The winner?

 

Bill Clinton.. Serial cheater.

 

As I always say, "Women attract women."

[burning 4 revenge]

That is not going to stop a man from cheating. If anything, he'll cheat and then say "my wife was smothering me...I needed to escape." Any justification will do, when someone feels like having a bit of strange.

 

It seems to me that if a woman is married to a man who simply can't bear the notion of being restricted to one woman for the rest of his life, then nothing she does is going to stop him from feeling that way. The fairest and most honest course of action would be to discuss an open relationship.

 

That way, both parties have the opportunity to explore other options without guilt...as this is something they've already agreed on. No doubt, such marriages do often end up breaking down...but so do marriages where cheating is involved. At least, in the open marriage, both parties know where they stand and there isn't deception involved.

The danger is if that bit of strange invades his thoughts in all his waking and dreaming hours

 

If he starts to zone at the thought of the scent of her wetness then the marriage is done for

 

The same is true in the reverse of course. If you were married to a man but were obsessed and inflamed by the thought of being filled by another or the taste of another then how could your marriage possibly fulfill you?

Edited March 13, 2010 by burning 4 revenge

[Taramere]

The danger is if that bit of strange invades his thoughts in all his waking and dreaming hours

 

If he starts to zone at the thought of the scent of her wetness then the marriage is done for

 

The same is true in the reverse of course. If you were married to a man but were obsessed and inflamed by the thought of being filled by another or the taste of another then how could your marriage possibly fulfill you?

 

I had a conversation about this with an ex who had cheated, and thought that a good way of dealing with this would be to suggest we go "open". Despite the circumstances, I don't just dismiss things out of hand. I thought very carefully about it, and my conclusion was that it wouldn't work.

 

If he were seeing someone else, I would also have to meet someone else. It's lonelier to be in a relationship with someone who's cheating on you than it is to be alone. So I would need to find a new man to console myself with....and then, what would I want with the old one who was, in any event, sleeping with someone else? To go on sleeping with the old one, would be a betrayal of the new one, so that old relationship would have to end.

[burning 4 revenge]

I had a conversation about this with an ex who had cheated, and thought that a good way of dealing with this would be to suggest we go "open". Despite the circumstances, I don't just dismiss things out of hand. I thought very carefully about it, and my conclusion was that it wouldn't work.

 

If he were seeing someone else, I would also have to meet someone else. It's lonelier to be in a relationship with someone who's cheating on you than it is to be alone. So I would need to find a new man to console myself with....and then, what would I want with the old one who was, in any event, sleeping with someone else? To go on sleeping with the old one, would be a betrayal of the new one, so that old relationship would have to end.

I dont see you as the open relationship type. Youre too wise for that game

[burning 4 revenge]

I had a conversation about this with an ex who had cheated, and thought that a good way of dealing with this would be to suggest we go "open". Despite the circumstances, I don't just dismiss things out of hand. I thought very carefully about it, and my conclusion was that it wouldn't work.

 

If he were seeing someone else, I would also have to meet someone else. It's lonelier to be in a relationship with someone who's cheating on you than it is to be alone. So I would need to find a new man to console myself with....and then, what would I want with the old one who was, in any event, sleeping with someone else? To go on sleeping with the old one, would be a betrayal of the new one, so that old relationship would have to end.

Can you imagine sitting by the telly by yourself on a Friday night knowing your other half is out entangled in the limbs and perspiration of another body and its all out in the open and all you can do is think about it

[Taramere]

Can you imagine sitting by the telly by yourself on a Friday night knowing your other half is out entangled in the limbs and perspiration of another body and its all out in the open and all you can do is think about it

 

In all honesty I wouldn't be that interested. He may as well be out getting entangled with sweaty male bodies in a game of rugby. Sex is just a physical contact sport for some men. Physical betrayal isn't what bothers me. It's the emotional betrayal. That's what ends it.

[burning 4 revenge]

In all honesty I wouldn't be that interested. He may as well be out getting entangled with sweaty male bodies in a game of rugby. Sex is just a physical contact sport for some men. Physical betrayal isn't what bothers me. It's the emotional betrayal. That's what ends it.

Surely youre not foolish enough to think theyre so easily seperated?

 

Sex isnt just a physical contact sport for men. If the sex is good and the passion was there and the sensation was there it isnt easily forgotten and that lingers in the male consciousness

 

Men become emotionally attatched through sex just like women. Its no different despite all the myths

[Taramere]

Surely youre not foolish enough to think theyre so easily seperated?

 

Sure I think they are, for some men. I'm not saying those men can't fall in love, but I do think they're perfectly capable of having sex with women they have no particular feelings for.

 

However, if a guy you're involved with is seeing another woman on a regular basis then it's pretty clear that feelings will have developed. Especially if it's a friendship that has turned romantic.

 

But these things happen. The best resolution for everyone is that it comes out in the open as soon as possible so that the relationship can be brought to a close. Women tend to know when they're being cheated on. There are a whole load of signs. Guessing that you're being lied to, subtly providing the person with opportunities to own up to what's happening - and watching them not take those opportunities...it all slowly kills the relationship. So by the time they do suddenly blurt it all out, the relationship is pretty much a corpse in any event.

[burning 4 revenge]

Sure I think they are, for some men. I'm not saying those men can't fall in love, but I do think they're perfectly capable of having sex with women they have no particular feelings for.

 

However, if a guy you're involved with is seeing another woman on a regular basis then it's pretty clear that feelings will have developed. Especially if it's a friendship that has turned romantic.

 

But these things happen. The best resolution for everyone is that it comes out in the open as soon as possible so that the relationship can be brought to a close. Women tend to know when they're being cheated on. There are a whole load of signs. Guessing that you're being lied to, subtly providing the person with opportunities to own up to what's happening - and watching them not take those opportunities...it all slowly kills the relationship. So by the time they do suddenly blurt it all out, the relationship is pretty much a corpse in any event.

What can you do in the end?

 

When it comes down to it life is pretty boring

[Pyro]

Long thread, so my apologies if this is a repeat.

 

Anyone, man or woman is capable of cheating in a physical sense. It comes down to will power. If you love someone enough you can stop yourself from snooping around on the internet or by any other means. We live in a selfish society where will power is few and far between, so it is a rarity to find someone who is 100% faithful to their spouse.

[calizaggy]

I realize I am all over the place, but here is another thought.

 

Some societies might understand a man's basic nature, so they take steps to limit temptation/cheating/distractions. Women might be covered, porn is illegal, men and women are seperate, etc.. Women in the west feel these societies are oppressive.

 

I remember reading articles about how wives in these societies always have husbands that are so completely turned on by them, simply by touching their hair, their skin, their breast, even after many many years, because the men are not bombarded by sex.

 

So in the west, women claim that they hate cheaters, etc. But everywhere a man goes he is around flirting/temptation/sex.. Go to the grocery store and you see women hanging out of their clothes.. Tight pants, big breasts etc.Go to the gym and women are all wearing spandex, half of them flirting.. At work younger women are throwing themselves at their bossses while be sexily dressed. On the net any news site has dating or even cheating website advertising popping up.

 

Even if a man does not cheat, he much more easily gets tired of sleeping with his wive/girlfriend as his mind has all of these other sexual images/temptations.

 

Add to all of this women's new "sexual freedoms" in which they are proud of having one night stands, sleeping with married men, having affairs, FWB's etc.

 

On one hand women tell men "don't cheat", but on the other hand they want to use their sexuality to excite/turn on/flirt with/get the attention of men.

 

Then when men do cheat they "have no character or ethics", but all of these easy/flirting western women are portrayed as strong and independent by the same women who hate cheaters.. I caught hell from the same posters who hate male cheaters when I said women should not have sex just for fun.. It all works together.

 

It is similar to a guy loving cake his entire life.. Then one day, because he is told to, he must give up cake. Then someone puts cake on the counter right in front of him, and he eats a piece, thinking nobody would find out. Then he is jumped on as being weak/having no character/no ethics, while the person who placed the cake there is forgotten..

Edited March 13, 2010 by calizaggy

[Holding-On]

Covering etc.

 

Yes. Women see these societies as oppressive. Because they are. To women. Also, though, to men.

So in those societies men might be much less blase or discriminating in their sexual standards (expecting a BJ, good hygiene, initiation from time to time - the phrase "good giving and game" not having any traction). However, we don't read about those women singing how much they enjoy their sex lives. Sexuality is a learned behavior. The more you do it, see it, read about it, the more you learn.

 

These men may in fact be more sexually ready, but that does not mean they are better lovers (less learning) or that they are not extremely frustrated (read some more articles about male sexual frustration in these countries, especially ones where polygamy is legal - believe it or not it is much worse than here) or not sexually aggressive in a bad way (rape is rampant, when you live apart from women all your life and they are reduced to chattel you don't learn to view them as human beings). So at least half of the population is at risk for not liking sex (similar to here if you have a religious background and are always told to cover "it" up - filthy dirty thing that it is - and that wanting sex makes you dirty/bad). The other half is at risk for not having a clue. Sounds like a great combination. Why oh why don't we go back to that?

 

OP If you don't want to be monogamous - don't be!

In this culture you are allowed that choice because the worst you'll get is a verbal tongue lashing. Something to be thankful for I think.

[calizaggy]

Covering etc.

 

 

So in those societies men might be much less blase or discriminating in their sexual standards (expecting a BJ, good hygiene, initiation from time to time - the phrase "good giving and game" not having any traction). However, we don't read about those women singing how much they enjoy their sex lives. Sexuality is a learned behavior. The more you do it, see it, read about it, the more you learn.

 

These men may in fact be more sexually ready, but that does not mean they are better lovers (less learning) or that they are not extremely frustrated (read some more articles about male sexual frustration in these countries, especially ones where polygamy is legal - believe it or not it is much worse than here) or not sexually aggressive in a bad way (rape is rampant, when you live apart from women all your life and they are reduced to chattel you don't learn to view them as human beings). So at least half of the population is at risk for not liking sex (similar to here if you have a religious background and are always told to cover "it" up - filthy dirty thing that it is - and that wanting sex makes you dirty/bad). The other half is at risk for not having a clue. Sounds like a great combination. Why oh why don't we go back to that?

 

OP If you don't want to be monogamous - don't be!

In this culture you are allowed that choice because the worst you'll get is a verbal tongue lashing. Something to be thankful for I think.

 

Not sure were you get your stats from.. The USA has among the most rapes in the world, muslim countries the lowest incedence of rape..

 

Actually the men view them with DEEP respect, and you can ask most western women that go there.. Western women are typically amazed.. Western nations have reduced women to mere sex objects that pay half the bills.

Edited March 13, 2010 by calizaggy

[Holding-On]

Not sure were you get your stats from.. The USA has among the most rapes in the world, muslim countries the lowest incedence of rape..

 

Actually the men view them with DEEP respect, and you can ask most western women that go there.. Western women are typically amazed.. Western nations have reduced women to mere sex objects that pay half the bills.

 

The United States may indeed have some of the most reported rape in the world. I don't know. Even you however must admit to having read many cases where women in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc. have been put in prison as adulterers when they (or their loved ones) pressed for rape charges. Such a culture where the woman is completely responsible for what happens to her with no back up when she is violated is hardly going to be conducive to reporting rape. I wouldn't risk it/go through that either.

I recall reading an article where a young woman went on the stand to state what it was like in a prison. Despite much evidence to the contrary, all the women leaving the prison claimed they had not been raped (i.e. they did not want to carry the stigma of "damaged goods").

 

Such countries themselves may not be completely honest in keeping their statistics.

 

Clearly wherever you have traveled you have had good experiences. That is fantastic. We could debate over and over whether or not more individual men in these oppressive countries have "DEEP" (can we define that??) respect for women or not. Their systems do not seem to reflect this respect. The fact that women do not have an income of their own may play into this.

 

I am not from the United States originally. I am an engineer. I work exclusively with men. I have never experienced anything but the utmost respect when working with American men, even in very different states politically. (very red versus very blue).

 

For myself I would rather be seen as a sex object than an object (no face, no soul (in some versions of those religions), no rights). I would rather receive pay for my work than have to rely on another person's whims or abilities. I would wonder why you see it as a failure that women pay half the bills.

[MizzBlue72]

People are going to cheat with or without the internet.

Internet only makes it easier.

[calizaggy]

From another thread..

 

"I look forward to hearing of better ways to get free sex! Before I started internet dating I'd slept with 4 women, now it's in the low-20s. If someone has a more efficient way to get poon I'm all ears."

 

This is what I mean.. The internet makes it MUCH easier for men to get sex from strangers.. Men who other wise would not cheat because of the inherent difficulties, now will.

 

And "inherent difficulties" are the main reason men do not cheat. I know some of you ladies love to think it is all about "ethics" and "morals" and "character", but when it comes to sex men do not connect the above traits to the act of sex.

 

Which of the below men has the better "character" and "ethics"?

 

A. Guy wants to sleep with another woman, and does.

 

B. Guy wishes he could sleep with another woman, tries to, but has no opportunities. Maybe he just pictures his gf as being a different woman.

 

C. Guy is just so in love with his wife of many years that he has no attraction for any other female at all.

 

So for a,b,and c (cannot pick C as it does not exist), does B have better character than A?

[silic0ntoad]

The above also applies to women however. Women can just as easily go on the net and get tons and tons of attention.

 

I don't believe the internet causes cheating. But it definately enables it, and makes it alot easier. It's also easier to hide information (Incognito, anyone?).

 

Look, the nature of the beast is this, people cheat, and it's a very high statistic. I think 50% of marriages have had infidelity? Not sure, but the numbers must be far higher in LTR's as compared to marriages. Cheating is an improper coping mechanism. That's all.

 

Problem is, people on both sides of the gender clash, disagree on it, because socially it's accepted that men cheat more then women, although, now, this is no longer the case. The numbers are pretty much neck and neck when it comes to which gender cheats more.

[donnamaybe]

From another thread..

 

"I look forward to hearing of better ways to get free sex! Before I started internet dating I'd slept with 4 women, now it's in the low-20s. If someone has a more efficient way to get poon I'm all ears."

 

So he was cheating BEFORE he started using the internet.

 

Gotcha.