Sneak attack

[Lees]

Mikey,

 

Reading your posts in this thread is like reading my own mind. I sit in the same tumultuous confusion as you do. Not knowing what to do from one moment to the next, desperately seeking a solution, some understanding of the hows and whys. It's exhausing isn't it. I'm 2 months down the road, still completely in love with her, and still would have her back despite her flaws, cruelty and misdemeanor because I married her, and that for me means that you work at it for life come what may.

 

You're not alone in any of these emotions. And you're normal for feeling all of them. Well as 'normal' as any of us are. I wish I could let go of her, but I don't seem to be able to do that. Friends tell me that I will when I'm ready. When I feel I've done absoultely everything I can to save it and she still says no.

 

I've initiated NC myself for a while, but yesterday I told her not to contact me either. I feel empowered by this as she's had all the control up until now, but I also feel like I've burned my bridges.

 

The duality of every action, word and decision in my head is the bit I find the worst.

[floridapad]

Twisted as it sounds, you're threatening her right of choice. She has that right Mike, but so do you. Man up and let her go. What other choice do you have?

 

Mike this says it. This is the reality you are in. No more fantasy.

 

As you go through this process you may find that your images and ideals in your head is what is creating alot of the pain. Our "image" of the person and desire for an imagined reconciliation. The fact is this woman you married is an Osterich that runs from her issues and rather than being mature and facing the issue head on with an open mind she finds it easier to run. Do you REALLY want that kind of person in the long run with children when things will get even tougher? Don't try to let your images of a happy loving marriage be shattered. You WILL have that but with someone more mature and wiser. The way she is handling this whole thing is a reflection of her and her inability to cope. Let her be. You have some living to do.

Get your azz down here. I will have the bachelor pad for only another month or two before I have to move back in the house. I'm sure you could use a sebatical.

[curiou]

Reading your posts I get the sense that you're still clinging on and suffocating her. "Something" made you go to the church even though you're not of that religion, and you admit to "wooing" her even though she is NC'ing you. You are subjecting yourself to this rejection. If you look at her social networking sites, you will find evidence of her removing you from her life. So best to remove yourself first, and not even look.

 

It's harder for you to do it than for me for write it, but that's the fact of the matter. You really don't want to pursue this anymore. A restraining order is the next step on her part, if you keep showing up physically where she doesn't want you (if she feels threatened).

 

You sound like a great guy, live a great life.

[Steadfast]

 

I've initiated NC myself for a while, but yesterday I told her not to contact me either. I feel empowered by this as she's had all the control up until now, but I also feel like I've burned my bridges.

 

 

That's how it feels but believe me when say that's dangling candy in front of a baby for a cheater. What's the old line about wanting what you can't have?

 

I haven't read you history Lees, just a guess on my part.

 

Anyway, you didn't burn anything.

[mikeymad]

You guys are right. This isn't doing me any good in the moving forward department, and for sure it isn't moving me towards any type of a recon. Like FLpad said to me once, IF this is going to happen (recon), it's going to take a long time. Not something that is going to happen overnight. I guess the hope monster got ahold of me and was directing my every move. What I am for sure doing is suffocating her and pushing her away. I guess I am willing to take the hits for this to try and make things work, and yes if it doesn't work out some of you may be able to say "i told you so". Oh well. Captains choose to go down with the ship on occasion.

Right now I am going NC for both of us (3 days...a record for me). For me to gain stability in my own world, and for her to sit and think about what happened. The problem is, I went to my divorcecare class, and they talked about how you are supposed to try and recon, that the man upstairs hates divorce and to do everything in your power to avoid a D. Lots of discussion both ways. I know it's a two way road, but I might present her with some of the info I saw tonight in the future. Besides, what will that hurt, her not talking to me.....even more I can only hope I am planting seeds.

I think I need time for these changes to set in to become part of me more, and these emotions to fade. A lifetime is a long time to be together, so a few months or a year apart isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. So maybe this NC i'm trying to induce will help with things on both ends. Thank you for your advice, and keep it coming.

Mikey

[Steadfast]

 

The problem is, I went to my divorcecare class, and they talked about how you are supposed to try and recon, that the man upstairs hates divorce and to do everything in your power to avoid a D.

 

 

Show me where it says God hates divorce. (Malachi 2:16 is correctly translated 'putting away' not divorce. This was for those under the rule of Jewish law). Easier to find is God's views on adultery, cheating, lying, hardheartedness, haughtiness, selfishness, deception, cowardliness...

 

God's warning and anger is directed at those who serve to interrupt or cause conflict in a marriage, not those suffering because of it. Why do people feel they need to rewrite this stuff? What is God's consistent instruction regarding anything bad or sinful? To move away from it. Mike, you have the God given right to separate, to move away from betrayal.

 

Seek the truth, it's there if you look for it. Be smart, be loving, be strong.

[mikeymad]

I guess it wasn't so much about hate of divorce, but the fact that we should move to reconcile in spite of the hurts or sins against us, and to ask for forgiveness (like the story of the prodigal son) and like the book of matthew.

[floridapad]

Not sure about your advisor in divorce care but mine said the same thing but did say after a seperation and after a year if the person doesn't want the marriage then divorce is OK in the end. She had an affair BTW. You ABSOLUTELY have grounds for a divorce in the Christian church (but not Catholic).

 

You say you want to try everything. Well you haven't tried everything. You haven't done the one thing that many people here say is necessary for a proper recon).......You need to let go of her. Truly let go and let love and God find a way back if it's meant to be. Truly be on equal emotional foundations. It's the only way to get your confidence back and to heal.

Edited March 18, 2010 by floridapad

[Steadfast]

 

You say you want to try everything. Well you haven't tried everything. You haven't done the one thing that many people here say is necessary for a proper recon).......You need to let go of her. Truly let go and let love and God find a way back if it's meant to be.

 

 

That's the best advice you'll get Mike. You could disregard everything else in this thread but the above and come out ahead.

 

 

I guess it wasn't so much about hate of divorce, but the fact that we should move to reconcile in spite of the hurts or sins against us, and to ask for forgiveness (like the story of the prodigal son) and like the book of matthew.

 

 

Mike, what is the obvious difference between that parable and your failing marriage? The answer is desire. The son desired to return, the father forgave him and welcomed his son back with open arms. Is that happening with you? Like the father in that story, you're willing to forgive and work on what needs to be done. She isn't. Would there be a story of the prodigal son without a repentant son?

Edited March 19, 2010 by Steadfast

[mikeymad]

Mike, what is the obvious difference between that parable and your failing marriage? The answer is desire. The son desired to return, the father forgave him and welcomed his son back with open arms. Is that happening with you? Like the father in that story, you're willing to forgive and work on what needs to be done. She isn't. Would there be a story of the prodigal son without a repentant son?

 

I guess my desire to come back made me a prodigal in a way as well with what i've been experiencing.

My PR was 5 days NC (this past week), which really got me nowhere, because I guess I was using it for the wrong reason, to get her to contact me. I guess I am bewildered at the fact that someone who doesn't normally express their feelings and take action to this extent, who has gone above and beyond since we separated, to make things better, is just overlooked and blown off as "just another empty promise". Yes I know she isn't taking stock in her part.

Some say it's hard to hear someone yell at you, but the thing is, anger/hate and love aren't that far apart...they still have passion, and they're not opposites. The opposite of love is indifference. And this silence speaks indifference to me, even if it is her personal 180. At our initial hearing her lawyer was so concerned about getting this over in 30 days, but that will be next week and I haven't heard a word from them. There's that damn hope monster again.

It just seems ridiculous for this to be happening to us so soon into our M like this is all a very bad dream. That one day she'll snap out of it, and realize what a mistake she's making.

Plus, I had been talking to a couple different females (nothing serious, but was nice to get some positive attention for a change, and they asked me to hang out/go for coffee. Basically my brain freaked out and I haven't spoken to them since, it would just to me seem like I'm moving on, and something I wouldn't want my W to be doing with other men, so trying to avoid a double standard.

Edited March 24, 2010 by mikeymad

[Steadfast]

 

My PR was 5 days NC (this past week), which really got me nowhere, because I guess I was using it for the wrong reason, to get her to contact me.

 

 

Mike, I read your post three times before writing. I tell you this so you know that you are not alone. Everyone, because of their personality or feelings handles things differently. Good advice or not, we must be true to ourselves.

 

Your truth is, the love you have for your wife is stronger than your anger from the betrayal. You've taken a lot of missiles to the hull but you're still floating. That's commendable; don't lose that ability. Still, you must come to the realization that no matter how much you love someone you can only be together if that's what both of you want. You're wasting your time because of this simple fact. It is a choice. You deserve better. It's true.

 

Why is she avoiding you? It could be indifference, but I doubt it. What's more likely is she wants something and feels you stand in the way of her getting it. What that is exactly is anyone's guess, but until you prove to her that you're not trying to take away her freedom of choice, she'll continue.

 

Train your 'NC' in this way:

 

Prove you really do love her by giving her what she wants. Release her. Give her the freedom she seeks so she (not you telling her) can discover what making that choice really brings. It's true; women are attracted to men who do not manipulate. Stand on your feet, let her stand on hers.

 

For you, use the NC to rediscover yourself; the 'you' that existed before your marriage, or even before you knew her. I know it sounds like a cliche' but find or rekindle an old passion and use it to re-focus yourself. Even if you don't feel like it at first. Take a step towards happiness. Turn yourself back into the man your wife fell in love with. It may be too late for her but it's not too late for you.

 

 

It just seems ridiculous for this to be happening to us so soon into our M like this is all a very bad dream. That one day she'll snap out of it, and realize what a mistake she's making.

 

 

You want her to snap out of it? That's her choice. Ridiculous or not, it isn't a dream. It's reality. Do yourself a favor and snap out of it first; show her (and yourself) that life goes on, because it does Mike. Love yourself enough to embrace the reality of your situation and stop trying to control it. You can't. None of us can. All you can control is you. Before anyone can love you, you have to love yourself. Work on you. The rest will come.

 

A good friend of mine gave this advice: Make the next right. No matter what happens just make the next right, and the next one after that. Do that long enough and you'll see there's a world worth living in. The one you make for yourself. Free yourself from the power of her decisions Mike.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Steadfast

[sotagoon]

What's more likely is she wants something and feels you stand in the way of her getting it. What that is exactly is anyone's guess, but until you prove to her that you're not trying to take away her freedom of choice, she'll continue.

 

 

I haven't posted in a while, but when I read this it hit me right between the eyes.

 

In my situation....we haven't seen each other since the day she walked out. We have spoken a few times and they have not gone well. She told me that she thinks I'm "addicted" to her. WHAT? Loving someone = Addiction? I guess the above quote probably pertains to me and mine...I'm just in the way!

Although the fact that I haven't initiated anything, still seems to keep her at bay??????? (Must indicate OM)

 

Anyway.....Mike...keep your head up (I know..who am I to talk).

Just thought I'd tell you what Charles Norris woulda said the other night!

[mikeymad]

 

Your truth is, the love you have for your wife is stronger than your anger from the betrayal. You've taken a lot of missiles to the hull but you're still floating. That's commendable; don't lose that ability. Still, you must come to the realization that no matter how much you love someone you can only be together if that's what both of you want. You're wasting your time because of this simple fact. It is a choice. You deserve better. It's true.

 

Why is she avoiding you? It could be indifference, but I doubt it. What's more likely is she wants something and feels you stand in the way of her getting it. What that is exactly is anyone's guess, but until you prove to her that you're not trying to take away her freedom of choice, she'll continue.

 

Train your 'NC' in this way:

 

Prove you really do love her by giving her what she wants. Release her. Give her the freedom she seeks so she (not you telling her) can discover what making that choice really brings. It's true; women are attracted to men who do not manipulate. Stand on your feet, let her stand on hers.

 

For you, use the NC to rediscover yourself; the 'you' that existed before your marriage, or even before you knew her. I know it sounds like a cliche' but find or rekindle an old passion and use it to re-focus yourself. Even if you don't feel like it at first. Take a step towards happiness. Turn yourself back into the man your wife fell in love with. It may be too late for her but it's not too late for you.

 

 

 

You want her to snap out of it? That's her choice. Ridiculous or not, it isn't a dream. It's reality. Do yourself a favor and snap out of it first; show her (and yourself) that life goes on, because it does Mike. Love yourself enough to embrace the reality of your situation and stop trying to control it. You can't. None of us can. All you can control is you. Before anyone can love you, you have to love yourself. Work on you. The rest will come.

 

A good friend of mine gave this advice: Make the next right. No matter what happens just make the next right, and the next one after that. Do that long enough and you'll see there's a world worth living in. The one you make for yourself. Free yourself from the power of her decisions Mike.

 

I guess from the way we've spoken shortly before and after she filed the D, she has hammered time and time again into my head that this is my fault. I know that she has her share and she's venting based on her emotions, but I can't help but feel responsible, since I'm the one feeling remorse and she left me. I think I am stuck in the rabbit hole of seeing every single mistake I made and having it amplified. So much of what I've seen is "change yourself first, then your partner will see that and follow suit". So because of those things, that is why I've strove to make those changes known, because I know I can't change her, or make her love me. I can only become a person who can be loved.

 

As far as letting her go, it's a doubt edged sword, and seems like the only option I have left at this point...yet the hardest one to do, whether you love her or hate her....let her go. It just seems wrong to not take a stand for something you believe in.

 

PS

Sotagoon-thanks for the update, and I'm not sure what Charles Norris would do but tell me to drown my sorrows in a tall drink and roundhouse kick someone.

[Steadfast]

It's common for the wayward to shift blame. Think about it; how easy is it to keep a running count of people's weaknesses or shortcomings, then present that handy list when the time comes to walk. Even if it were true; even if you did all the wrong and she was blameless, that isn't love.

 

Can you see that? Mike?

 

If you ever get the chance, in a non-threatening environment, tell her; "You're right. I've made mistakes and I'm truly sorry for them. I'd like a chance to show you what I've learned, but I haven't had the opportunity."

 

No guilt, no pressure, no manipulation. Straight forward and honest.

 

 

As far as letting her go, it's a doubt edged sword, and seems like the only option I have left at this point...yet the hardest one to do, whether you love her or hate her....let her go. It just seems wrong to not take a stand for something you believe in.

 

 

How are you not doing that? The problem is Mike, you're still not getting it. How are you responsible for her decisions? Take your stand. In fact, I'm positive she's well aware of your position on marriage and divorce. She doesn't care. At least, enough to honor it. Mike, stop taking on her problems. She will face the consequences of her decisions. You will face the consequences of yours. You can only control you. Isn't that enough?

[Gunny376]

You and the wife are at present in an adversarial relationship. In such you have two choices? Close with them in close contact, or adapt stealth. In your case you need to go as much NC as possible. Like a nuclear submarine, run silent, and run deep under the Artic ice cap! Get her to thinking that you feel off of the face of the Earth.

 

You took a Divorce Care course, and that's all well and good ~ depending upon which denomination it is that's teaching the class. Here in Alabama Christian religion run hard and deep.

 

I had a friend from HS that was told that divorce is morally, ethically, wrong. And that she should go back to her husband and work things out even though the SOB had attempted on repeated occlusion to sexually molest her DD from a previous marriage.

 

Another denomination here in Alabama (and they're not a small nor fringe group) preaches that its members can never marry someone who's been divorced.

 

Doesn't matter that your the innocent victim who keep to your vows, etc. Doesn't matter if you married some psycho, a cheater. Your divorce? Your tainted.

 

It doesn't matter that the spouse divorced you? You're divorced? Your scum in their eyes.

 

Divorce is complicated enough without bringing religion into it. Which of the 2600 recognized and acknowledged denominations in the United States has it right?

 

The Mormons?

 

The Catholics?

 

The Methodist?

 

The Presbyterians?

 

The Amish?

 

The Quakers?

 

The Shakers?

 

Church of Christ?

 

Assembly of God?

 

Quit wasting your time on trying to please, satisfy, pacify someone who cannot be pleased, satisfy, nor pacified?

 

Work on your life and yourself, and improving yourself and being the "best you" that you can be and can become.

 

Work on moving forward and on-ward with your life.

 

Your dealing with someone who's basically saying:

 

"You did this, this and that, and you didn't do enough of this, this and that, and then you said this, this and that, but you didn't say enough of this, this and that!"

 

And now she's full of resentment, anger, because of it. Its the whole "Princess and the Pea under the mattress story!"

 

Sorry, but I'm no Prince, your no Princess!

 

Its the same sad old story. When a man cheats on a woman? Its his fault! When a woman cheats on a man? Its still his fault.

 

You've fallen hook, line, and sinker and sitting around beating yourself up with your "would've, could've and should'ves" and its nothing but BS!

 

You've got it all backwards? Its not "?Am I worthy of her and her love and devotion" but rather "Is she worthy of my continued love and devotion?

 

You need to seriously look at what you and she are bringing to the table, and I'll bet next months retirement check from the Marines that you're bringing a lot more to the table than she is?

Edited March 25, 2010 by Gunny376

[Steadfast]

 

Quit wasting your time on trying to please, satisfy, pacify someone who cannot be pleased, satisfy, nor pacified?

 

Its the same sad old story. When a man cheats on a woman? Its his fault! When a woman cheats on a man? Its still his fault.

 

You've fallen hook, line, and sinker and sitting around beating yourself up with your "would've, could've and should'ves" and its nothing but BS!

 

You've got it all backwards? Its not "?Am I worthy of her and her love and devotion" but rather "Is she worthy of my continued love and devotion?

 

You need to seriously look at what you and she are bringing to the table, and I'll bet next months retirement check from the Marines that you're bringing a lot more to the table than she is?

 

 

Great post Guns.

 

It is no wonder people are fed up and confused, for all the reasons you mentioned. Bad advice comes from bad intentions. Religion is the devil because it's man made. Isn't divorce and heartbreak hard enough without bringing all that extra crap into it? But, like all things there is a truth, and it isn't hard to understand. A better time and place for this sometime later.

 

Look at it this way, regardless of our position on religion, what kind of fool craves heartbreak or misery? Yes, some do crave it, but their problems run deeper than relations. No one with any amount of self love need torment themselves with living in pain and betrayal. That isn't love.

[tojaz]

I haven't posted in a while, but when I read this it hit me right between the eyes.

 

In my situation....we haven't seen each other since the day she walked out. We have spoken a few times and they have not gone well. She told me that she thinks I'm "addicted" to her. WHAT? Loving someone = Addiction? I guess the above quote probably pertains to me and mine...I'm just in the way!

Although the fact that I haven't initiated anything, still seems to keep her at bay??????? (Must indicate OM)

 

Anyway.....Mike...keep your head up (I know..who am I to talk).

Just thought I'd tell you what Charles Norris woulda said the other night!

 

Yep, addicted! That goes to show a bit of how their mind is working. They already have all the answers, including yours! It isn't about loving her in her eyes, its about you trying to manipulate or control her. Thinking that way makes it easier for them to walk. When I was trying to save my marriage I got that I was completely "obsessed" with her, like some sort of stalker. All because I loved my wife!!!!

TOJAZ

[mikeymad]

I guess it's hard not to get caught up in the tornado of a D and lose focus of everything in your life but the one thing that's not currently in it. Pretty soon nothing looks the same, and you're definitely not in Kansas anymore. Guess I'm not only dealing with that maelstrom, but the havoc it has wreaked in other areas of my life. At that point you survey the destruction and wonder...what the hell do I do now?

 

And yes, Tojaz, love is a hell of a drug. And sometimes its the fear of losing it that makes us hold on for dear life. And it makes sense that they have their mind made up already to what you are doing, because when I spill my feelings, it's not romantic or an act of love, it's manipulation or another empty promise. That's another tough thing to handle, that it doesn't matter what you're trying to get across, they will view it however they want.

Edited March 25, 2010 by mikeymad

[tojaz]

I guess it's hard not to get caught up in the tornado of a D and lose focus of everything in your life but the one thing that's not currently in it. Pretty soon nothing looks the same, and you're definitely not in Kansas anymore. Guess I'm not only dealing with that maelstrom, but the havoc it has wreaked in other areas of my life. At that point you survey the destruction and wonder...what the hell do I do now?

Believe me man, that one thing that isn't currently in your life is entwined in everything else. D effects every aspect of your life and the very definition at times. The reasons you work, the things you do, places you go, even small things like what you eat or watch on TV have all been meshed together with your life with your wife. Its very hard to seperate it all simply. Little things like where you sit on the couch or which side of the bed you sleep on mean a hell of a lot all of a sudden.

 

 

And yes, Tojaz, love is a hell of a drug. And sometimes its the fear of losing it that makes us hold on for dear life. And it makes sense that they have their mind made up already to what you are doing, because when I spill my feelings, it's not romantic or an act of love, it's manipulation or another empty promise. That's another tough thing to handle, that it doesn't matter what you're trying to get across, they will view it however they want.

 

Very true man, but even worse, your not losing it, its being taken from you suddenly and by force. Shes going to view what ever you do to suit her own needs, even if it contradicts what she said just a few minutes ago. Makes you doubt yourself, keeps you off balance, and unfortunately we wind up unknowingly doing the things that support their decision out of sheer panic and acting out of reason, logic and the history of your shared past. None of those apply right now because she has changed the rules to suit her own needs. Thats why the 180 is preached so much.

TOJAZ