went and saw my attorney

[onedayatatyme]

For those of you who've been following my other threads, I'm starting a fresh one because the last had gotten off onto two or three different tangents and it was getting confusing.

 

I went to my attorney today. This was a Q&A session because of my wife occasionally mentioning D. I went to get some questions answered so I'm not completely blindsided by it if she files for divorce.

 

Some things I learned:

 

Q: Does it put me at a disadvantage if she files for D instead of me?

A: No, it doesn't. Only affects who asks questions first if it gets in front of a judge.

 

Q: Can any agreement be drawn up for her to accept full responsibility for student loans that I have co-signed for?

A: No, because the lender is a third party and cannot be affected by any side arrangements me and a STBX have.

 

Q: Is there any drawback to letting grass grow under my feet about the affair?

A: Maybe. A's can affect the outcome of asset splits and custody arrangements in this state. The judges in this county are pretty conservative and most do tend to take it into consideration (there are 6 family court judges in this county). An affair last month will have more impact than an affair 5 years ago.

 

Q: What are my chances for obtaining custody? (I deal with lawyers on my job regularly and I know that this is not a question that I'll get a firm answer on, but I am really just feeling him out so I ask it anyway)

A: She cheated, left the family on Christmas morning to be with her boyfriend, didn't come back for 11 days, refused to tell me where she was. She has a history of being irresponsible with money. If there is a divorce it will be questionable how she will support herself. I have been documenting all activity with the kids for the last two months (who puts them to bed, who's brushing teeth, who's doing parental chores) and the activity is tilted toward me. She has mentioned suicidal thoughts twice recently. The kids have been home 4 days from school sick in 2010, it's been me staying home with them. These are all things that the judges will very much take into consideration. In the meantime, I need to do everything I can to be the perfect dad. Be really involved in their activities, make yourself known at their schools and doctor offices (they might be brought into court as witnesses).

[onedayatatyme]

install key logger on her system and flexi spy pro on her mobile....

 

I wish I was literate enough to do this an know for certain it was undetectable.

[mimidarlin]

ask the lawyer before you install those things. It is very possible that installing them is illegal and they might not be admitted as evidence. If discovered they may harm your case.

[tnttim]

Both are perfectly legal, only wire tapping a phone is illegal. You cannot use the evidence in court unless you told her you were installing it on phone and computer.

 

Why install this stuff anyway, who cares?

[Gunny376]

Wire tapping is illegal for state and federal law enforcement agencies to do without a court order, and approximatley half of the States.

 

In Alabama its legal in so long as one party (the one doing the wire tapping) is knowlegable about it.

 

In so doing so? And audiable 'beep' will accure every fifteen seconds during the course of the conversation over the telephone to let the other party know that they are being recorded.

 

Its simple enough to do. 1. Purchase a microcassette recorder, 2, Purchase a suction cup microphone from Radio Shack, 3, Attach to the receving end of a phone. 3 Record away.

[Gunny376]

ask the lawyer before you install those things. It is very possible that installing them is illegal and they might not be admitted as evidence. If discovered they may harm your case.

 

Yea but even though not presentable in court, gives your lawyer more to work with ~ the devious bastards they are!

 

Obviously you've never watched LA Law nor Boston Legal!

[mimidarlin]

You're right Gunny I don't watch those shows. That doesn't relate to my reasons for being careful. One day at a time has a desire to find out hidden information. I can't say I blame him but I don't think he wants it to burn him. There was a news piece about a lady who was being stalked by an ex through the program on her cell phone. I think someone could get into a pickle if they were listening and recording conversations without the permission of the other party. If he followed her or checked up on her then it might fall into a category of stalking.

 

At best he would find out disturbing information that doesn't help his case. At worst he could end up in jail or have only supervised visitation. I would hate to see this behavior risk his opportunity for full or partial custody. CYA dude. Cover your a**. Check with a lawyer.

[Butterflair]

I wish I was literate enough to do this an know for certain it was undetectable.

 

The key logger program I used was not detectable and worked great. I could even access it from my laptop. The lawyer was not happy about it and told me to take it off (in other words, don't tell her again), the PI didn't care how I got my information as long as it was good. I could not use it in court and I never did tell him I did it but what it did do is confirm everything I thought to be true and gave me the truth when he wouldn't.

 

It was removed once I asked for divorce, no trace is left.

[mimidarlin]

How to know if it was detectable? I doubt the average joe/jill could find it. I'm proficient but I'm certain I wouldn't detect it. Did someone with computer savvy try to discover it? If I suspected someone was tracking my emails, messages etc I could take the computer to a tech that might discover the program running in the background.

 

I don't think it's worth it unless a large amount of money or custody of the child rides on you discovering information. Cost/benefit analysis. Do the benefits of the information you might discover outweigh the cost of getting caught?

[BB07]

ask the lawyer before you install those things. It is very possible that installing them is illegal and they might not be admitted as evidence. If discovered they may harm your case.

 

 

Good advice, as different states have different laws concerning new technology. ASK your lawyer.

[tnttim]

When did you turn into James Bond?

 

Brass tacks here, answer this question.

 

Do the ends justify the means?

[onedayatatyme]

Screw the lawyers. The way I see it, I own both the laptop and her phone. I paid for both and I pay for the phone service. I don't see how it could be illegal to put spyware on my own stuff.

 

Either way though, I don't think I'll do it. I am working pretty hard on not spying. All it does is breed paranoia and worry. I'm keeping my eyes open but trying not to obsess about it.

 

I had to turn into James Bond to discover the affair, hacking into email accounts and putting a GPS tracker on her car... It worked but it's no way to live forever. It is a painful and miserable experience digging and digging and not being happy until you find something. I'm trying to move past that.

[Butterflair]

I justified it as I bought the computer therefore I own it. I knew it was installed on it and if he used it daily, then oh well, it got documented. I needed to know some things for sure and I found out what I needed to know. I don't feel bad about it. It was worse for me to not know what the truth was and to continue to be lied to. You are right, it is a hard way to live, reading things that make you sick so it's not a good long term thing.

 

I did it until I got what I needed and then that was enough. Once I knew he took her to Atlanta on 4th of July weekend, then I knew he was sleeping with her and everything he told me was bull doo and the marriage was over.

 

Hiring the PI got me the documentation I needed that would be acceptable in court and that was my insurance. I didn't need it, he signed everything without it.

 

The bottom line, look out for yourself now and advocate for your children. Make sure they have a stable home.

[unsureLP]

It's hard for me to comment on this situation, since infidelity is not an issue in my situation. I honestly don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes. But I think if you are working towards reconciliation, how can you get past all this to start rebuilding trust? Does trust ever come back in cases like yours? That's really tough, and I'm sorry you have to deal with all that.

[floridapad]

I installed webwatcher on the computer. Great undetectable program that does not run in the background. I ran many spywares on it and non of them picked it up. The antivirus didn't pick it up either. You can view it remotely. It gave me the necessary information and balls to go NC with the W until the affair ended. Now it gives me confirmation that she is not seeing or dating anyone as she says. Now it's helping me rebuild the trust.

[2sure]

Just something I'd like to point out.

 

Getting "evidence" via means you would normally deem beneath you. I did it. It was demeaning to both my H and myself. In the state I live in , infidelity is nothing as far as divorce. Whether it was legal or not was of no concern to me.

 

My suspicions were nothing compared to what was actually happening. In my life. To me, my child. I have no regrets regarding what I did , what I had to do, in order to really know what I was dealing with.

 

After the fact, I - with great hesitation, confided how I got the information - to a friend also dealing with infidelity. I was slow to do this, because I knew that once you hear/see that hard evidence...it doesnt go away. Its hard to come back from that. But she was going crazy with anxiety and wondering. She had children to protect, plans to make, but could not because she was a decent person and would do nothing until she knew for sure.

 

So, she confirmed the truth. It was worse than she thought. But now she sleeps at night. Now, she is OK because she can deal with the truth , make decisions with all the cards on the table.

 

So, I get why you dont want to go there. And although I cant tell anyone its a GOOD thing to do...at the same time, it kind of is. But you have to be ready, you have know that when you do that...your reality may change a whole lot.

[phineas]

I put a key logger on MY laptop.

The one she used for talking to OM.

 

It's useless evidence now because she is not asking for anything in the divorce & leaving it up to family court to decide child support.

[onedayatatyme]

But I think if you are working towards reconciliation, how can you get past all this to start rebuilding trust? Does trust ever come back in cases like yours?

 

These are excellent questions and I don't have the answer yet. Maybe the trust never comes back. Although there are some websites and books about getting over affairs that say trust can be rebuilt but it may take years.

 

Our MC says it's little wonder she is saying she isn't "in love" with me. We have a mutual trust issue and long as we eye each other with suspicion, there aren't going to be any romantic feelings. OK, fair enough. His advice is that we need to rebuild this relationship on a foundation of trust although we have not gotten far enough into Mc to find out how to do that.

 

For now, I am trying to choose to trust her. Might she be running around? Sure, but there is no chance of reconciliation if I am worried about it 24/7. It's easy to say but hard to do. To start, I am trying to force myself to stop snooping. Which is hella hard.

 

Philosophically I know that if she wants to run around, she's going to do it. It isn't a reflection on me, it's a reflection on her. She'll have to answer to God in the end, not to me.

[onedayatatyme]

Just something I'd like to point out.

 

Getting "evidence" via means you would normally deem beneath you. I did it. It was demeaning to both my H and myself. In the state I live in , infidelity is nothing as far as divorce. Whether it was legal or not was of no concern to me.

 

My suspicions were nothing compared to what was actually happening. In my life. To me, my child. I have no regrets regarding what I did , what I had to do, in order to really know what I was dealing with.

 

After the fact, I - with great hesitation, confided how I got the information - to a friend also dealing with infidelity. I was slow to do this, because I knew that once you hear/see that hard evidence...it doesnt go away. Its hard to come back from that. But she was going crazy with anxiety and wondering. She had children to protect, plans to make, but could not because she was a decent person and would do nothing until she knew for sure.

 

So, she confirmed the truth. It was worse than she thought. But now she sleeps at night. Now, she is OK because she can deal with the truth , make decisions with all the cards on the table.

 

So, I get why you dont want to go there. And although I cant tell anyone its a GOOD thing to do...at the same time, it kind of is. But you have to be ready, you have know that when you do that...your reality may change a whole lot.

 

Yeah, I did all this. The truth was horrible. Absolutely sickenning as a matter of fact. Now that I'm attempting recon, I'm not going to go digging for more sickening truths. But that only lasts as long as I'm not conflicted with doubt. As soon as I sense she's lying again, I will do what I have to do. The next step probably would be keyloggers or PI's to follow her.

[mimidarlin]

One day,

Does she know that you found this information out? If they know how we found out details they can just use another computer. If she doesn't know then I wouldn't share the information.

 

It's such a tough situation. How do we work on trusting someone who violated our relationship. My STBX would get annoyed when I checked up on him. We were trying to see if reconciliation would be possible and I had to have confidence in what he was telling me. I caught him in more lies through pure gut instinct. He wasn't with anyone else he just needed space so he lied rather than have to deal with telling me the real issue.

 

Maybe using this spyware would be one way to help ease our minds. If we knew for sure where they were and who they were talking to we might be a little less obsessed. The problem is if our spouse finds out they may feel violated and it might undermine any trust from their end.

 

My STBX still finds it insulting when I don't trust him. I ask him the same thing on multiple occasions in different way to see if he will be consistent. He doesn't comprehend how much he violated my trust. He doesn't appreciate that I have lost a great deal of respect for him. I don't think he realizes that a lot of his friends and family have lost some respect for him.

[unsureLP]

Hey oneday,

 

Just saying hi an hoping things are looking up in your camp. Are you feeling less torn one way or the other?

 

You know, I never learned their situation in detail so I don't know how comparable it is to yours, but... My step brother and his wife separated for a while after he walked in on her with another guy. It took a while and a lot of counseling, but they've been back together for a couple of years now. They seem happier now too, going out on dates, cuddling during family get-togethers, etc. So, just throwing it out there that maybe recons can happen after betrayal.

 

On the other hand, I seriously dislike the b****.

[tnttim]

Trust most certainly can be restored, but just as the break up took 2, the trust rebuilding definitely takes 2.

 

You first have to realize that trust was broken by both of you, not just the cheater. We all had to do some snooping to find out the truth, even though it was the right thing to do at the time, it is a hard thing to just turn off. I started by not giving in to my temptations to snoop. I would break every once in awhile but, I am still letting some of it go. If your a man it's hard to turn off the logic part of your brain, and when her story didn't follow logic, I would get suspicous. A women's intuition tells them a man is lying, it's also hard to turn that off.

 

Feeling distrusted and expressing distrust are two different things. You can feel something and not express those feelings, sometimes. You have to let sleeping dogs lie, and trust what they say. Face it we all lie, most of the time we lie to ourself and do a great job at it. So if we can fool ourself, fooling someone else is twice as easy.

 

You show me an honest man, I'll show you the world's greatest liar............

[JamesM]

You show me an honest man, I'll show you the world's greatest liar............

 

An honest man would admit that he IS a liar.

 

Honesty does not equal perfection. It simply means that he is honest and will reveal who he is as he is.

 

Sorry...slightly off topic, but I couldn't resist.

 

Can the trust be rebuilt? Yes.

Will it be easy? No.

Would many of us walk away? Yes.

Would it be worth it to rebuild this relationship? Only you can answer that question.

[tnttim]

Would it be worth it to rebuild this relationship? Only you can answer that question.

 

My answer

 

I would take a bullet for kids without hesitation.