Just my introduction story of woe

[tnttim]

Arguing is very healthy in a relationship, it actually shows that you have some communication at the very least. Once you stop arguing, in essence, you stop caring as well.

 

My point was and is, stop bringing up the past, stop evening the score. Make today day 1 with your W, wipe the slate clean and start over.

 

Not until you do that can you truly move on from this.

[floridapad]

Incredible insight on this thread! I'm loving it. After all this talk about "light her fire" I went ahead and bought it. I am burning through it quickly and have come to the conclusion that it should be prerequisite reading for all men. Great read. WOW did I screw up in my M. Fell into all the same traps you are all discussing on this thread and the book just helps me see it even more and will hopefully help me break the cycle by adding a little wisdom. This has given me a bit of renewed vigor.

 

Thanks for the recommendation Gunny!!

[tnttim]

I'm gonna give it a read as well, sounds like my kind of book.

 

Florida, did you read that stuff I sent you?

 

We went to the bar yesterday and I am usually very shy. But I read that stuff I sent you and realized how unseductive that was. I talked to anyone I saw instead, especially the women. In the past 12 years when W drank, we would go home and go to sleep, that's it. Last night broke a 12 year drought, and ended the streak.

 

three words I swear and live by now

 

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER

[tojaz]

I read through the recommended thread from WolfP. I read about 2/3 of it.

 

When I got to the part where he is a saint to his wife and you said HE should be writing books on how to treat women, I knew I was sunk.

 

Does this balance?:

Ten years of neglect on my part due to IGNORANCE

Two years of deceit on her part due to INTENT

 

Is it "three fingers pointing to me and one back at her" when ignorance and intent are taken into account?

 

I felt like I came out of my own fog at initial discovery--like I had woken up from a nightmare.

 

I'll accept the answer I'm given.

 

True balance in a relationship is not static. More of a see saw effect constantly ebbing and flowing as it goes along.

 

Tim has it right when he says wipe the slate clean. far too many here try to define the breakdown, quantify blame and assess responsibility. This is not a trial so keep it simple. This is broken and needs to be fixed, dosent matter how or why it is broken at this time, those answers will uncover themselves. Critical now is repairing the damage and moving forward.

 

TOJAZ

[Gunny376]

My point was and is, stop bringing up the past, stop evening the score. Make today day 1 with your W, wipe the slate clean and start over.

 

Not until you do that can you truly move on from this.

 

Agreeded wholeheartedly.

 

floridapad

 

Your more than welcome, for those that don't the author of the book(s) is Ellen Kreidman.

 

For the ladies, she originally wrote and taught a seminar for women titled, "Light His Fire". When the women of the seminar basically told her, "This is all great, what have you got for our husbands and boyfriends?" Which lead her to write, "Light Her Fire"

 

She also (for couples with children) written another book, "How Can We Light A Fire When The Kids Are Driving Us Crazy?" and offers a CD book titled "Light Your Own Fire" (Rather pricey at $99 though ~ I have it)

 

I read the book after my divorce, and before I got involved with the last LTR GF. The book just got my mind focused and stirred my creative imagination. After awhile I was doing things recommended in the book without even thinking about it.

 

It amazed when I stopped to think about it? How easy and low maintenance women and relationship when you just apply a little of what the book talks about day-to-day?

[spriggig]

Yes, I agree, I must STOP.

 

I asked about the balance of responsibility because that's the idea I used to forgive myself and her.

 

Wallowing in the details of who betrayed who was getting me nowhere slow and painfully.

 

Accepting by a sort of faith that we are each half responsible and forgetting the details gave me a lot of peace. Highly recommended.

[tojaz]

Even concerns about responsibility will tie you up. If your lying on the ground with a knife in your chest, are you more worried about how it got there or how to stop the bleeding????

TOJAZ

[spriggig]

Even concerns about responsibility will tie you up. If your lying on the ground with a knife in your chest, are you more worried about how it got there or how to stop the bleeding????

TOJAZ

 

It's nice to have semi-rational, anecdotal "evidence" (my "balance of responsibility") to back up something that is meant to be taken on faith alone.

 

But, yeah point taken.

[floridapad]

I'm gonna give it a read as well, sounds like my kind of book.

 

Florida, did you read that stuff I sent you?

 

We went to the bar yesterday and I am usually very shy. But I read that stuff I sent you and realized how unseductive that was. I talked to anyone I saw instead, especially the women. In the past 12 years when W drank, we would go home and go to sleep, that's it. Last night broke a 12 year drought, and ended the streak.

 

three words I swear and live by now

 

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER

 

I'm reading it but haven't put it into practice. Wife is still in serious depression. I did use one of the suggestions in light her fire and got immediate positive responses from the W. The thing I like about light her fire is that I feel it is more grounded in how a loving relationship should be as apposed to tactics and techniques. Light

[floridapad]

I'm gonna give it a read as well, sounds like my kind of book.

 

Florida, did you read that stuff I sent you?

 

We went to the bar yesterday and I am usually very shy. But I read that stuff I sent you and realized how unseductive that was. I talked to anyone I saw instead, especially the women. In the past 12 years when W drank, we would go home and go to sleep, that's it. Last night broke a 12 year drought, and ended the streak.

 

three words I swear and live by now

 

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER

 

I'm reading it but haven't put it into practice. Wife is still in serious depression. I did use one of the suggestions in light her fire and got immediate positive responses from the W. The thing I like about light her fire is that I feel it is more grounded in how a loving relationship should be as apposed to tactics and techniques. Light her fire seems more about love as apposed to manipulation, which is far better in the long run. Although I sure am going to try some of the stuff you sent me.

[spriggig]

In addition to Light Her Fire, I got You Just Don't Understand and Genderspeak.

 

In You Just Don't Understand, the author hammers one point over and over: Men speak with a goal of maintaining position in a hierarchy and women speak with a goal of maintaining connection. Because I accept her authority on this, the point is made in the first two or three chapters. I didn't need to read the rest of the book as it seems aimed at supporting her argument against academics.

 

Genderspeak, at least the one I got, is about business communication which is only peripherally related to intimate relationships. Maybe I got the wrong book?

[Gunny376]

Genderspeak, at least the one I got, is about business communication which is only peripherally related to intimate relationships. Maybe I got the wrong book?

 

"Genderspeak, Men, Women And The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense. ~ Powerful Techinques for Improving Communicatin and Disarming Verbal Attacks" author Suzette Haden Elgin, Ph.D, ISBN 0-471-30506-5 (hardback editon) ISBN 0-471-58016-3 (Paperback edition)

 

Yes she covers intersex/cross gender communication in a variety of differente settings to include business communication in a workplace setting.

 

But if you read the entire book, I think you will benefit from it greatly.

 

Guns

[Gunny376]

Men speak with a goal of maintaining position in a hierarchy and women speak with a goal of maintaining connection.

 

Susan (Formerly Steven) Stranton the former city manager of Largo, FL goes on and on about the difference in the way she is treated and interacts with both men and women now that she's a "woman" and a city manager. And how much differently men interact, speak to and approach her.

[unsureLP]

In You Just Don't Understand, the author hammers one point over and over: Men speak with a goal of maintaining position in a hierarchy and women speak with a goal of maintaining connection. Because I accept her authority on this, the point is made in the first two or three chapters. I didn't need to read the rest of the book as it seems aimed at supporting her argument against academics.

 

I actually had to do a "analytical response essay" on this book for a Linguistic Anthropology class. I hate the way it's organized... but that aside, you did get the main point. She does go on about other things, like silence and interruption in conversation, that are also pretty important and happen all the time (from both men and women). If you are interested, she wrote another book in response to her critics that's better organized than You Just Don't Understand IMO, but still based on the same material. It is more geared towards academics, but her style is super accessible and she goes into more detail about different issues. The name is "Gender and Conversation."

[Gunny376]

like silence and interruption in conversation, that are also pretty important and happen all the time (from both men and women

 

I've learned that oftentimes the least said? Is the best said! Its figuring what to say and not to say that's the hard part!

[unsureLP]

I've learned that oftentimes the least said? Is the best said!

 

Though Tannen argues that men's use of silence in conversation with women can sometimes cause more harm than good. She says that men may place (though not always intentionally) women in a pleading, begging position through the use of silence.

 

To be honest, I don't like Tannen's book all that much because I feel she pigeonholes everyone in certain positions. I mean, the way she characterizes men and women is so simplistic... I think both men and women present characteristics from both sides. But maybe over-generalization is necessary to make the book sound more authoritative.

[unsureLP]

And Gunny, what are you still doing in front of the computer? Go enjoy the beach!

[Steadfast]

 

In so far as this packing her bags, and kicking her to to the curb business? I would wholeheartedly agree in a New York second, trouble is? You've got children with this woman do you not? Be careful of making short term decisions that have far and long reaching consequences that may affect the mental and emotional health ~ and even their future relationships of your children.

 

 

That's probably some of the best advice I've read on here. Good job Guns.

 

spriggig, you're in the deep end right now. You love her, you hate how she's acting and what she's done. You want to act this way, but you fall back into yourself. You want to be the person carrying out the advice you've been given, but you're submerged in the reality of your feelings.

 

All you can control is you. Right now, isn't that enough?

 

Some of the best advice I received was to separate the heart from the head. The heart will do what it does and is not easily controlled. The mind however, with practice, can be trained. What's done is done spriggig, the issues at hand are now what's important. If she's not listening, it could be because you're saying all the things she expects to hear. Starting now, stop viewing her as your wife and regard her a person; one with issues. You're learning a lot about yourself and human nature, put it into practice. Speak with actions, not words. Dispose of control. Show your strength.

 

Be an example. She may not react or seem to notice. Character cares not.

 

Gunny's statements regarding recon stats is more accurate than any of us are probably comfortable with, but if there is change to be made, make it now. At some point, her fog will clear enough and a window will appear for you to speak through. Ready yourself for that day. Strength can be shown in many ways, including kindness, patience, wholesomeness and a unselfish attitude. Do if for you spriggig, for now. The rest will come.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Steadfast

[spriggig]

Yes, we have one 11-year-old son together and she has a 16 year-old from husband #1. The 16-year old has moved back in with dad.

Be careful of making short term decisions that have far and long reaching consequences that may affect the mental and emotional health ~ and even their future relationships of your children.

This is one reason she is still in my house. Of course, the other is I still love her and don't want her to go.

 

She doesn't want me. The bitch is going to make everyone pay for "what I did to her", me, her son, herself, the grandparents, uncles, my son's friends--everyone, everywhere will feel her wrath. She has taken zero responsibility and shows no remorse.

 

I think she believes I'll get over this and we'll be friends--I'll come over and visit them on weekends and maybe we'll have dinner together. No. If I see her face two times in one week that will be too much.

 

I'll live up to the letter of whatever our D agreement is for the next six effing years and that will be it. She'll get no help from me not decreed by law. She HAS a marriage license now, a decree of law, and she is throwing it in my face. Let her chase butterflies and end up alone.

 

I think LisaUK needs to find this place once in a while. Poor thing. LOL. For me, I can find this place pretty easily but it's not really me--I'm trying to learn to turn it on and off so I can use it to my advantage--the "fairer sex" seem to do this intuitively, bitches--every one of them.

 

Thanks again, guys. I've leaned too hard on my IRL friends. I'm lucky to have found this board and all of you.

[spriggig]

I think LisaUK needs to find this place once in a while. Poor thing. LOL.

 

I think I was out of line with this comment. I had just read her thread about not feeling angry and it was on my mind when I wrote this. No offense intended, I'm sorry if any was taken.

[tnttim]

The best advice I got here and have for you is simple:

 

Make a plan and stick to it.

 

You have all the resources, the blueprint, and the site picked out. Now it's time to get your hands dirty and put in work.

 

It's hard to control your feelings, but you have to try to let what your W does go right now go. I'm sure she thinks you are acting out of character as well.