For the wives

[georgia girl]

I think (God knows, I don't KNOW) that there's a way to make a lot of good come out of what was probably a little bit of a misguided post. I think my perspective is a little unique. I'm about to become a wife and I have a dear friend who just had a relationship with a married man.

 

First, from my perspective: the vulnerability of dating and finding a partner finally goes away when you decide to marry that partner. You let your guard down and you know that this person is yours to share your life with - and you are his as well. You make this promise that no matter what else the world will deliver, the two of you are going to be there for each other for the rest of your lives. You also expect that you will hit high points and low points and your partner will love you through them, just as you will love him or her. That's part of the promise of marriage and why, intrinsically, it means so much.

 

Now, I'll agree, lots of people who should have never married did so anyway and there are a lot of unhappy folks out there. But, first, you tell yourself you're not one of them. You also tell yourself that if someone is one of them, then he/she should get out BEFORE they start dating again. While everyone will still get hurt when a relationship ends - even a bad marriage - it's done the honorable way.

 

Now, to my friend. She is beautiful, wonderful, smart, sexy and way too savvy to be taken in by anybody. But, she was terribly lonely and sick of dating a lot of single guys who were really looking to move very quickly into a sexual relationship without any emotional commitment. Then, comes her MM. He couldn't offer outward commitment, but he made a huge emotional commitment to her. He fell in love with her and even though she now doesn't believe it, I still do.

 

He gave her the things she needed emotionally: a connection to someone, a protector, a partner, a passionate love affair and the excitement that was somewhat derived from the secrecy. Regardless of how it ended, that's what he gave to her. In the end, I don't think he was right for my friend because he couldn't and didn't commit to her, but I do believe he genuinely loved her and I want to emphasize that for her sake as well as my argument.

 

Since she now reads this forum, we've talked about this post and others. Her take on this: she was glad someone defended an OW's worth, but not while swiping at the wife. Her thought - and I agree: that once two women fall in love with the same man, there is tremendous conflict. On top of that, one woman has a moral right to that man; the other woman is therefore put in the place where both she and her feelings are labeled as wrong. She's left with the only defense she has: but he loves me.

 

That strikes incrediblly deep to the wife, who knows that passion waxes and wanes in a relationship and she strikes back: he loves me more. We have a whole life together - a house, kids, friends, shared history, scripted future.

 

Then the OW strikes back and says that this life was missing passion and connection, so he chose me. And so on and so forth it goes.

 

So, the misguided post says, don't take it out on the other woman. She's not so bad. And then deviates into rhetoric about how one should always look good for her man and the point is lost.

 

What the poster - I hope - was trying to say was understand each other and also realize that you were both set up to be hurt. Perhaps by a good man caught in a bad situation and making bad choices or by a bad man who is incredibly charming. But this man needs to be accountable. It was his promise and it was his actions. It's also his mess to clean up. If that means going home, owning up to his wife and then doing what he needs to do to fix his marriage, then so be it. If that means getting out and doing the right thing by the other woman, then so be it as well.

 

However, I think the tragedy - and my friend agrees - is when the affair has no end in sight. No point of resolution. My friend describes her former situation as being "desperate" for resolution but scared to death that it could mean losing him. I'm sure, if asked, his wife would have felt the same way.

 

As people say over and over again on this board. These are real people with real feelings in real circumstances. Perhaps, a little love all around doesn't go amiss? (Except for the man, of course. I'm a little ticked at him!)

[GreenEyedLady]

When I read the OP, I just thought:

 

TROLL.

[NoIDidn't]

georgia girl

 

That was an interesting spin on the OP. I still don't agree with it. But not because I seek to denigrate the OW instead of the W.

 

I don't think the OPs point was not to blame the OW. I think it seemed to point out that she thinks the stereotypical and mythical view that the A is better than the M, and that it logically follows that the OW is better than the W for and with the MM.

 

I was really struck about the insistence on how happy the MM looked when out with the OW. The amount of times the OW look at pictures of the couple on the many social networks out there and say "Oh, they only LOOK happy". Its quite ironic that someone would use that as a defense of the OW.

 

I feel for your friend. I think if she accepts, instead of fears, that she may "lose" him, she will find herself in a much better place emotionally. Losing him isn't the same as losing the positives she gained from feeling and benefitting from his love. It was only when I accepted that I could lose my H and still thrive, did I lose the anxiety of where and what I would be without him and our marriage. I can only hope that she gets out of it with this positive before it starts to kill the what she gained from it.

 

I think the OW that my H had years ago got something positive out of the A she had with him. And I don't begrudge her that. In fact, I hope she uses it to her benefit one day. She got out of a bad relationship, was encouraged by him to go to therapy (and she did it after d-day), and seems to have found the belief that she can be more than what she was told she was by her dysfunctional family. I come from a similarly dysfunctional family so I know how valuable that insight is.

 

I know the OP said she worded things badly, but she never clarified what she meant. It would be nice if she did so. As it stands right now, we are left with the OP and its a doozy (lol).

[BB07]

Great post Georgia Girl and wonderful viewpoints of both sides.

[NoIDidn't]

NID, I read GG's post to say it was nice of the OP to have sympathy for the OW, but the post was terribly misguided. (I think we all can agree on that.)

I then read it that the rest was GG and her friends views, which are not necessarily the OP's.

Not trying to answer for GG, just saying this is how I interpreted it.

 

Ah, man. What did I say this time? I thought I explained that I disagreed with the OP and with some of GG's views. But then offered some empathy for GG's friend. Did I not do that clearly? I am guilty of rambling many times. I tried to edit.

[pureinheart]

I think (God knows, I don't KNOW) that there's a way to make a lot of good come out of what was probably a little bit of a misguided post. I think my perspective is a little unique. I'm about to become a wife and I have a dear friend who just had a relationship with a married man.

 

First, from my perspective: the vulnerability of dating and finding a partner finally goes away when you decide to marry that partner. You let your guard down and you know that this person is yours to share your life with - and you are his as well. You make this promise that no matter what else the world will deliver, the two of you are going to be there for each other for the rest of your lives. You also expect that you will hit high points and low points and your partner will love you through them, just as you will love him or her. That's part of the promise of marriage and why, intrinsically, it means so much.

 

Now, I'll agree, lots of people who should have never married did so anyway and there are a lot of unhappy folks out there. But, first, you tell yourself you're not one of them. You also tell yourself that if someone is one of them, then he/she should get out BEFORE they start dating again. While everyone will still get hurt when a relationship ends - even a bad marriage - it's done the honorable way.

 

Now, to my friend. She is beautiful, wonderful, smart, sexy and way too savvy to be taken in by anybody. But, she was terribly lonely and sick of dating a lot of single guys who were really looking to move very quickly into a sexual relationship without any emotional commitment. Then, comes her MM. He couldn't offer outward commitment, but he made a huge emotional commitment to her. He fell in love with her and even though she now doesn't believe it, I still do.

 

He gave her the things she needed emotionally: a connection to someone, a protector, a partner, a passionate love affair and the excitement that was somewhat derived from the secrecy. Regardless of how it ended, that's what he gave to her. In the end, I don't think he was right for my friend because he couldn't and didn't commit to her, but I do believe he genuinely loved her and I want to emphasize that for her sake as well as my argument.

 

Since she now reads this forum, we've talked about this post and others. Her take on this: she was glad someone defended an OW's worth, but not while swiping at the wife. Her thought - and I agree: that once two women fall in love with the same man, there is tremendous conflict. On top of that, one woman has a moral right to that man; the other woman is therefore put in the place where both she and her feelings are labeled as wrong. She's left with the only defense she has: but he loves me.

 

That strikes incrediblly deep to the wife, who knows that passion waxes and wanes in a relationship and she strikes back: he loves me more. We have a whole life together - a house, kids, friends, shared history, scripted future.

 

Then the OW strikes back and says that this life was missing passion and connection, so he chose me. And so on and so forth it goes.

 

So, the misguided post says, don't take it out on the other woman. She's not so bad. And then deviates into rhetoric about how one should always look good for her man and the point is lost.

 

What the poster - I hope - was trying to say was understand each other and also realize that you were both set up to be hurt. Perhaps by a good man caught in a bad situation and making bad choices or by a bad man who is incredibly charming. But this man needs to be accountable. It was his promise and it was his actions. It's also his mess to clean up. If that means going home, owning up to his wife and then doing what he needs to do to fix his marriage, then so be it. If that means getting out and doing the right thing by the other woman, then so be it as well.

 

However, I think the tragedy - and my friend agrees - is when the affair has no end in sight. No point of resolution. My friend describes her former situation as being "desperate" for resolution but scared to death that it could mean losing him. I'm sure, if asked, his wife would have felt the same way.

 

As people say over and over again on this board. These are real people with real feelings in real circumstances. Perhaps, a little love all around doesn't go amiss? (Except for the man, of course. I'm a little ticked at him!)

 

First off, my prayers are with you and your new M!!!!! Congratulations!!!!!

 

(Bold) One size doesn't fit all....( I know I stole that saying...just like it..lol)

 

I really like your perspective on such a sensitive situation, and thank you for remaining your friends friend. I was too self righteous to be this gracious.

[pureinheart]

Pure - many many hugs. that is very tough. And interesting. I know my son will do the same thing to his hair when he's feeling stressed and overwhelmed. He has a rat tail just for that purpose (it beats his old nervous habit of rubbing his nipples by a long shot lol) but he twirls it around his fingers and pulls at it. I just figured it was a mild nervous habit due to stress but helped him, now i wonder if this is something i should worry about. Totally sorry for the thread jack.

 

CCL

 

Many hugs to you too!!!! Personally I would find out what the underlying cause is..I found my root, or at the very least the time period in which it began.

 

I never realized it was an actual "disorder"....

 

At this point I think a tj would be welcome...

[pureinheart]

Pure- I meant to comment on your earlier post but wasn't able to then.

I am very sorry for what you are going through. I knew someone once that would tweeze her pubic hair out when stressed. I wonder if this is like your diagnosis. Nevertheless, I hope you are doing better.

Please take care of yourself.

 

Yes, much better...it's just frustrating. My hair was starting to get totally healthy and long before this.

 

Thank you so much....(Bold)...oh man..I am not sure if it is the same, although sounds like it...self destructive....

[jennie-jennie]

I think (God knows, I don't KNOW) that there's a way to make a lot of good come out of what was probably a little bit of a misguided post. I think my perspective is a little unique. I'm about to become a wife and I have a dear friend who just had a relationship with a married man.

 

First, from my perspective: the vulnerability of dating and finding a partner finally goes away when you decide to marry that partner. You let your guard down and you know that this person is yours to share your life with - and you are his as well. You make this promise that no matter what else the world will deliver, the two of you are going to be there for each other for the rest of your lives. You also expect that you will hit high points and low points and your partner will love you through them, just as you will love him or her. That's part of the promise of marriage and why, intrinsically, it means so much.

 

Now, I'll agree, lots of people who should have never married did so anyway and there are a lot of unhappy folks out there. But, first, you tell yourself you're not one of them. You also tell yourself that if someone is one of them, then he/she should get out BEFORE they start dating again. While everyone will still get hurt when a relationship ends - even a bad marriage - it's done the honorable way.

 

Now, to my friend. She is beautiful, wonderful, smart, sexy and way too savvy to be taken in by anybody. But, she was terribly lonely and sick of dating a lot of single guys who were really looking to move very quickly into a sexual relationship without any emotional commitment. Then, comes her MM. He couldn't offer outward commitment, but he made a huge emotional commitment to her. He fell in love with her and even though she now doesn't believe it, I still do.

 

He gave her the things she needed emotionally: a connection to someone, a protector, a partner, a passionate love affair and the excitement that was somewhat derived from the secrecy. Regardless of how it ended, that's what he gave to her. In the end, I don't think he was right for my friend because he couldn't and didn't commit to her, but I do believe he genuinely loved her and I want to emphasize that for her sake as well as my argument.

 

Since she now reads this forum, we've talked about this post and others. Her take on this: she was glad someone defended an OW's worth, but not while swiping at the wife. Her thought - and I agree: that once two women fall in love with the same man, there is tremendous conflict. On top of that, one woman has a moral right to that man; the other woman is therefore put in the place where both she and her feelings are labeled as wrong. She's left with the only defense she has: but he loves me.

 

That strikes incrediblly deep to the wife, who knows that passion waxes and wanes in a relationship and she strikes back: he loves me more. We have a whole life together - a house, kids, friends, shared history, scripted future.

 

Then the OW strikes back and says that this life was missing passion and connection, so he chose me. And so on and so forth it goes.

 

So, the misguided post says, don't take it out on the other woman. She's not so bad. And then deviates into rhetoric about how one should always look good for her man and the point is lost.

 

What the poster - I hope - was trying to say was understand each other and also realize that you were both set up to be hurt. Perhaps by a good man caught in a bad situation and making bad choices or by a bad man who is incredibly charming. But this man needs to be accountable. It was his promise and it was his actions. It's also his mess to clean up. If that means going home, owning up to his wife and then doing what he needs to do to fix his marriage, then so be it. If that means getting out and doing the right thing by the other woman, then so be it as well.

 

However, I think the tragedy - and my friend agrees - is when the affair has no end in sight. No point of resolution. My friend describes her former situation as being "desperate" for resolution but scared to death that it could mean losing him. I'm sure, if asked, his wife would have felt the same way.

 

As people say over and over again on this board. These are real people with real feelings in real circumstances. Perhaps, a little love all around doesn't go amiss? (Except for the man, of course. I'm a little ticked at him!)

 

Truly amazing post, Georgia girl! Wow! :bunny:

[jennie-jennie]

Pure - many many hugs. that is very tough. And interesting. I know my son will do the same thing to his hair when he's feeling stressed and overwhelmed. He has a rat tail just for that purpose (it beats his old nervous habit of rubbing his nipples by a long shot lol) but he twirls it around his fingers and pulls at it. I just figured it was a mild nervous habit due to stress but helped him, now i wonder if this is something i should worry about. Totally sorry for the thread jack.

 

CCL

 

CCL, I do at times what your son does with his hair. It is not at all the same as Trichotillomania. I just like the nice feel of the soft hair on my hand. I would not worry about this if I were you.

 

((((((Pure))))))) You are so brave to tell us about your problems.

[pureinheart]

CCL, I do at times what your son does with his hair. It is not at all the same as Trichotillomania. I just like the nice feel of the soft hair on my hand. I would not worry about this if I were you.

 

((((((Pure))))))) You are so brave to tell us about your problems.

 

Thanks Jennie, knowing the healing power of exposure (in this case), I will usually get the wonderful opportunity to communicate things such as these usually without thread jacking...I hate starting threads like.."Gee I'm Just So Jacked Up".... in this sense anyway...not referring to the threads that are started concerning hurt in R's.

 

I feel safe with all you guys, and thank you for that

[nadiaj2727]

You should be concentrating on your job and not eavesdropping on other people's personal bull****. You would benefit from doing so. They are screwing themselves, don't worry about them.

 

All I have to say about this thread is that this is awesome advice. I find that the people who are involved or interested in the most drama with other people at work are the ones who are the most unhappy with their own lives. I know because I used to be one of them. When you are truly happy you will focus on yourself and your own life -- your work, your personal life and relationships, your hobbies, etc. -- and not care what other people are doing wrong and who's to blame. In my opinion both the cheater and the one helping the cheater cheat aren't truly happy. That's just not my definition of a fulfilled life. I think fault lies both with the man cheating and the woman helping him cheat and I could be wrong but I don't see how that could be a truly happy situation.

[wheelwright]

All I have to say about this thread is that this is awesome advice. I find that the people who are involved or interested in the most drama with other people at work are the ones who are the most unhappy with their own lives. I know because I used to be one of them. When you are truly happy you will focus on yourself and your own life -- your work, your personal life and relationships, your hobbies, etc. -- and not care what other people are doing wrong and who's to blame. In my opinion both the cheater and the one helping the cheater cheat aren't truly happy. That's just not my definition of a fulfilled life. I think fault lies both with the man cheating and the woman helping him cheat and I could be wrong but I don't see how that could be a truly happy situation.

 

It gives significant moments of happiness for those people, and if they are decent/strong/truly in search of a life worth living, impetus for change. Some people forget what it is to be happy, and need to steer their lives towards some semblance of it. They won't find it truly in an A, but it may help them remember what it looks like.

[nadiaj2727]

It gives significant moments of happiness for those people, and if they are decent/strong/truly in search of a life worth living, impetus for change. Some people forget what it is to be happy, and need to steer their lives towards some semblance of it. They won't find it truly in an A, but it may help them remember what it looks like.

 

So someone needs someone else to help them be happy? I don't buy it. Because I think that true happiness and change can only be found from within. If you need someone else to show you moments of happiness and change your life for the better, then in my opinion that is not being strong. Just my own opinion.

 

I do agree with you that people may find what looks like happiness--as in, escape from loneliness or a bad relationship or themselves etc.--in an affair but that that's not true happiness and they won't truly be happy like that for good. (If that's what you were saying, I'm a little unclear.) I do believe that affairs can be catalysts for change but I think that the person needs to find that strength from within and not from another person, whether the other person might be the OW or the BS. So maybe I agree with what you're saying but I was just misunderstanding it. Anyway, even if they do have moments of what seems like happiness in an affair, I am sure that most have many other moments of feeling miserable and having a lot of drama.

[White Flower]

This brings up such a good point but may be way off the subject. Perhaps I should start another thread about it.

[White Flower]

This brings up such a good point but may be way off the subject. Perhaps I should start another thread about it.

Here it is:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t225037/

[SummerLady]

sorry, kiddo – an adulter is using both his/her spouse and his affair partner. While this person convinces him/herself that they're "staying for the kids" ... or because they "feels sorry" for their spouse ... the only reason he/she isn't making a move in either direction is because this person understands that he/she has got it really, really good.

 

see, someone who cheats only has to give part of his/herself to the spouse, and part to the person who is the relationship on the side. While THOSE to folks are giving that person EVERYTHING. Think about it: It's not a balanced, honest relationship, but one based on subterfuge and dishonesty and lies. The man who cheats on his wife lies to her about being faithful; and he lies to the chick he's sleeping with to keep the peace. While I don't doubt that there are problems in those marriages, how easy is it to make himself the victim of an "unloving" wife, who "doesn't understand him?" And how many of these big-hearted women, who just want a man of their own to love, buy into his lies? John Edwards' mistress has an interview out about her affair with the politician, and one of her complaints was basically about how Edwards' wife bossed him around, and didn't understand him ... please. Unless she's been in the marriage, she only understand the dynamic of it based solely on what her married lover tells her. And you think he's gonna be on the up and up about something like that if it means endangering this nice little racket he's got going?

 

you ask why don't these women blame the men for screwing around on them, but focus on the mistress. While there is bound to be fall-out and she's got to deal with the mistress, ultimately, her legal and moral bond is with the jackass she married. And though she is probably angry with him, she has an obligation to make/heal that relationship. If she's smart, she'd kick him to the curb, because my thought is if he doesn't respect her enough to be solely in a relationship with her, she's better off without him. The other woman can have the relationship with the philanderer.

 

I agree that wives need to have their best game face on, but let's be honest here: No one can read minds. If a man doesn't feel attracted to his partner because she looks like a schlub, there are ways he can approach the topic and encourage her to look nice for him/etc, instead of completely cutting himself off from her and looking for fresh meat grazing in greener pastures.

 

as much as you squawk about wives needing to stand up for the women who are banging their husbands, those mistresses need to hold their lovers accountable, too.

 

 

Thank you for your response to this post. This post was hilarious and ridiculous at best. Just so you know I never blamed the other woman, my ex was the one married to me not her. Secondly whether you suspect something wrong with the realtionship or not, cheating is not the solution. Lawyer up and call it a day and then go about your business and do whatever it is that you please. Having your cake and eating it too doesn't work in the adult world much. Thirdly women standing behind other women?? Is that suppose to be funny. So a woman should say hey your a woman and your with my hubby that is ok as we are both women? Huh? Your logic and mentality are scary and counter productive at best. Wow. Real eye opener. I hope others don't feel the same...