For the wives

[White Flower]

My Dad always looked happier when he was out with his OWs too.

 

I don't think that means much though, other than the fact that he enjoyed their company when he had time to spare. I can't imagine having an affair and frowning when out with your secret lover. What a downer.

Hey NID, I have a feeling that this thread is going to bust so does anyone mind if I t/j? Maybe not t/j because we are discussing the whys of Hs who wander and what they're looking for.

 

My guess is they're looking for true intimacy (whether the OP is fat, frumpy, or not).

 

I was wondering NID (and perhaps I should ask this on another thread), but do you believe your dad ever experienced true intimacy in his later years with any W or OW? I know you once said at some point he simply had to outgrow his ways so was wondering if he'd 'found it' at some point.

 

Thanks.

[2sunny]

this is your perspective because you hear what they want you to hear and you see what they want you to see.

 

there's no way to totally know THEIR truth. only they know that. what we do usually understand - is that the MM is many times not honest. so how can we base anything on what we see or hear when he's not an honest guy? it's a delusion - designed to continue working for HIS benefit.

 

i don't fault the W or the OW in these cases... i am essentially here to support the greater good of the circumstances involved. it gets, hurtful, it gets hard for all involved.

 

if i can help at all along the way - i certainly try... i also try to set my circumstances aside and view it all from the words the poster gives me to work from.

 

i we help people find a way to be happy here - we are certainly doing something that is better than not helping at all.

[NoIDidn't]

Hey NID, I have a feeling that this thread is going to bust so does anyone mind if I t/j? Maybe not t/j because we are discussing the whys of Hs who wander and what they're looking for.

 

My guess is they're looking for true intimacy (whether the OP is fat, frumpy, or not).

 

I was wondering NID (and perhaps I should ask this on another thread), but do you believe your dad ever experienced true intimacy in his later years with any W or OW? I know you once said at some point he simply had to outgrow his ways so was wondering if he'd 'found it' at some point.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I'm rethinking the thought that he outgrew his serial cheating. I think I'm seeing it manifested differently because he is now single. He is on a dating rampage. He did get serious with a lady or two, but since those heartbreaks, he seems to have returned to his old way of dating.

 

I don't think that my dad has ever experienced true intimacy. I don't think h has any idea of what true intimacy is. I've seen several women truly fall for him and seen him fall for them. He really does love something about these women, but he doesn't really love them, if you KWIM. He doesn't have a healthy respect for women, yet he doesn't treat women disrespectfully (hard to explain).

 

I honestly don't think serial cheaters are capable of true intimacy. I think they are capable of something that looks like it. They aren't honest enough with themselves to achieve true intimacy with themselves, let alone with another person.

 

Serial cheaters do indeed fall in love. But I can't call it intimacy. Consider the difference between making love and having sex. They look the same, but are very different.

[pureinheart]

Hi Nichole,

 

I have seen this a lot too, meaning the majority of what you said in your OP. I worked in a industry where it was a ratio of about 7 men to 1 woman.

 

As a rule most men don't talk all that much, and when they do their words are few, although speak volumns and rarely did they exaggerate or lie as I worked with most of them for over 25yrs and knew their entire life story already (along with their W's, which were my friends also).

 

I saw a lot of unhappy M's, and I mean real unhappy M's (both men and women)...a lot of A's took place and most of the time the people in the A ended up marrying each other.

[pureinheart]

Hey FA, thanks for chiming in

 

And FO has a huge point, it does tend to be more emotional. Or something other then physical. I never stopped turning H on. I could bend over in the right pair of jeans and get a salute. Its not physical.

 

And the emotional isn't always the wife has turned into a mother either. My own and only sin in that aspect is I am a horrible terrible like "Keeping up with Appearances" (if you know the show) type of back seat driver. I've tried so hard to stop being on, it just....comes out. I can't stop it. We joke about it most of the time, but I know it annoys him and I'm honestly trying but its hard. Course the one time I managed not to do it, he almost crashed into the construction cones

 

Hey CCL (((((hugs)))))

 

In reading the OP, the point that stood out to me was how the men in her situation were treated...possibly it wasn't communicated as much as other things, although men like to be treated good...and you treat your man good...you let him be him.

 

I have been every weight under the sun, I have looked 80 and have looked 20, it has never made a difference what my appearance has been...what has made the difference is my behavior...bottom line...

 

I know you have communicated your faults and junk, but you are good to him, you admit when you are wrong...you know, I don't know how to explain this, but your attributes outweights your faults big time.....

Edited March 16, 2010 by pureinheart

[pureinheart]

Hey NID, I have a feeling that this thread is going to bust so does anyone mind if I t/j? Maybe not t/j because we are discussing the whys of Hs who wander and what they're looking for.

 

My guess is they're looking for true intimacy (whether the OP is fat, frumpy, or not).

 

 

Hummmmm, why they wonder, and what they are looking for...good question WF....

 

MPO is that men are not as superficial as some might think, and not meaning anyone at LS, or as superficial as some of the men would like others to think, and here again no one at LS....I worked with a lot of men...

 

I am not sure why they wonder, although I think most feel misunderstood. Communication breakdown in the M might be the main issue.

 

Yep, your right, true intimacy...

[skywriter]

There are numerous excuses for why A's happen, but ultimately only one reason...choice. For whatever reasons, my opinion is lack of healthy coping skills, A's always boil down to the choice to lie.

 

 

Right on BNB !!! Never a truer word spoken.

 

See, it's not that all BS, are bashing, sometimes the truth is just the truth. Bottomline. ....and I am an OW.

[Fallen Angel]

Hummmmm, why they wonder, and what they are looking for...good question WF....

 

MPO is that men are not as superficial as some might think, and not meaning anyone at LS, or as superficial as some of the men would like others to think, and here again no one at LS....I worked with a lot of men...

 

I am not sure why they wonder, although I think most feel misunderstood. Communication breakdown in the M might be the main issue.

 

Yep, your right, true intimacy...

 

I agree. That is what I meant when I said it was about the emotional connection in the marriage.

 

But, the OP of this thread is only seeing the affair from the outside, that in the situations she sees the OW are "prettier" and she is hearing men who are speaking to other men about their affairs, in situations which make it difficult for them to say to another man "I have an affair because my marriage, for me, is lacking emotional intimacy."

 

They feel misunderstood, even by other men, so rather than openly discuss the real reasons behind their choice to have an affair (that they are seeking emotional connection) they talk about the size of the OWs breasts, about how hot the sex is with the OW or about how accomadating and fun the OW is.

 

The original poster is not privy to the behind the scenes of the affair, she doesn't see/hear the hours and hours of conversation and emotional bonding that go on between these married men and their OW, so she doesn't really understand it. Because she does not really understand the true affair dynamic she makes assumptions based on very superficial appearances.

 

I do not think her post was an attempt to be hateful. I just think it stems from a lack of real knowledge about the affair dynamic.

[OWoman]

I know that when you find out your husband is cheating it is devestating. But come on, you felt something wasnt right.

 

Sometimes this genuinely isn't the case. Some BSs are completely blind-sided by the discovery of the A. Sweeping statements undermine whatever value an argument might have had, because they provoke a defensive "but mine wasn't" or "not all are" response upfront, which prevents many people from reading further and engaging with the substance that follows.

 

While I get the gist of this post, I don't think that over-generalising from the experience of a couple (literally two, it appears) of MM into a universal truth does the argument any favours. If anything, it's likely to engender division rather than solidarity.

[califnan]

sorry, kiddo – an adulter is using both his/her spouse and his affair partner. While this person convinces him/herself that they're "staying for the kids" ... or because they "feels sorry" for their spouse ... the only reason he/she isn't making a move in either direction is because this person understands that he/she has got it really, really good.

 

see, someone who cheats only has to give part of his/herself to the spouse, and part to the person who is the relationship on the side. While THOSE to folks are giving that person EVERYTHING. Think about it: It's not a balanced, honest relationship, but one based on subterfuge and dishonesty and lies. The man who cheats on his wife lies to her about being faithful; and he lies to the chick he's sleeping with to keep the peace. While I don't doubt that there are problems in those marriages, how easy is it to make himself the victim of an "unloving" wife, who "doesn't understand him?" And how many of these big-hearted women, who just want a man of their own to love, buy into his lies? John Edwards' mistress has an interview out about her affair with the politician, and one of her complaints was basically about how Edwards' wife bossed him around, and didn't understand him ... please. Unless she's been in the marriage, she only understand the dynamic of it based solely on what her married lover tells her. And you think he's gonna be on the up and up about something like that if it means endangering this nice little racket he's got going?

 

------------------------

 

I think quank's comments say it all -

 

And to add: The OW can prolong the agony for as long as she likes - but is it worth the gamble and the years lost ... As soon as she figures out that she is a whole woman - and does not fit in the fraction of his life, she is finally out of there.

 

And yes, it does happen that the wife is in a lot better physical shape than the OW.

[OWoman]

he lies to the chick he's sleeping with to keep the peace.

 

My H didn't lie to me during the A - but perhaps that was because he didn't regard me as "the chick he was sleeping with" or feel the need to "keep the peace"; he saw me as his life partner.

[jennie-jennie]

My H didn't lie to me during the A - but perhaps that was because he didn't regard me as "the chick he was sleeping with" or feel the need to "keep the peace"; he saw me as his life partner.

 

Touché. I believe you hit the nail on the head here, OWoman.

[califnan]

My H didn't lie to me during the A - but perhaps that was because he didn't regard me as "the chick he was sleeping with" or feel the need to "keep the peace"; he saw me as his life partner.

 

-----------------------

 

That was part of quank's comments that I posted and agreed with ..

 

I believed everything my husband said during the (later exposed) affair-period. Many lies surfaced in the months, years following. .. Normally if a partner has an affair, it will be followed up or subsidized - by lying ..

[OWoman]

-----------------------

 

That was part of quank's comments that I posted and agreed with ..

 

I believed everything my husband said during the (later exposed) affair-period. Many lies surfaced in the months, years following. .. Normally if a partner has an affair, it will be followed up or subsidized - by lying ..

 

There is a huge difference between believing a H that is lying to you, and trusting a lover who is not.

 

My H may have lied to his xW - though more lies of omission than commission - but he didn't lie to me. I put this down to his diminished respect for her (given the nature of the M) and his enduring respect for me as a life partner, not as some "chick he was sleeping with".

[sally4sara]

If adultery came to my door and the OW didn't know my husband was married, dropping him when she discovered he was married, I would not hold it against her. She would be a victim too.

 

If she knew from go or didn't exit stage left upon finding out, she better start putting on the luck charms or praying to her deities. She is in the same boat my husband would be in and it would be about to start rocking. I'm a mean, mean lady when crossed.

[califnan]

There is a huge difference between believing a H that is lying to you, and trusting a lover who is not.

 

My H may have lied to his xW - though more lies of omission than commission - but he didn't lie to me. I put this down to his diminished respect for her (given the nature of the M) and his enduring respect for me as a life partner, not as some "chick he was sleeping with".

 

------------------------

 

His diminished respect for his wife ? Was she cheating on him as well ..

 

When it comes to Righteousness and Truth - it isn't Over - until it is Over OWoman ..

[White Flower]

The man who cheats on his wife lies to her about being faithful; and he lies to the chick he's sleeping with to keep the peace.

 

Once in a while a MM finds someone he can be truly honest with and doesn't need to lie anymore. I believe that happened in the case of OWoman, GEL, Jennie-Jennie, Fallen Angel, and me.

 

It all boils down, once again, to true intimacy. Wherever he finds trust and a place he can be himself is where he will tell the truth.

[NoIDidn't]

Once in a while a MM finds someone he can be truly honest with and doesn't need to lie anymore. I believe that happened in the case of OWoman, GEL, Jennie-Jennie, Fallen Angel, and me.

 

It all boils down, once again, to true intimacy. Wherever he finds trust and a place he can be himself is where he will tell the truth.

 

I don't think this is true and can be demonstrated by posts from these boards.

 

The named posters above still maintain that the MM in question is lying, even if by omission, to their Ws. And that is what califnan just said they were doing - lying to their Ws.

 

If they didn't need to lie anymore, they would be telling their Ws the truth. But here we have it, they are not doing that. They are indeed still lying to their Ws.

[herenow]

[quote=Nicole11;2703691

 

So if you truly believe in the "women should stand up for women", it has to be two sided. They get hurt too. Those relationships are just as real, in the heart and body and soul as a married one. The feelings are the same.

 

So think about that. Before you put down the OW. She is a woman to, have her back too.

 

Ok, so us wives should make sure we always look good for our H's. Fine, but I choose to look good because it makes me feel good. If my H likes it as well, then it's a bonus. How 1950's to say that women should keep healthy and fit to keep a man. No problem if you want to live your life only to please another. IMO, a person needs to be happy with themselves before they can be happy in a relationship. JMO

 

The above comment is what confuses me. I have read so many times that the OW doesn't owe the BW anything because she (the OW) didn't break any vows or promises. That the MM is the one to blame. I agree 100%. However, it seems like you are saying that the BW should think (or care) about the OW's feelings.

 

Once an OW becomes involved with a MM, we can assume that she isn't doing if out of concern for the wife. The "women should stand up for women" idea has already been thrown out the window. IMO, at that point all bets are off and the BW doesn't owe the OW any more than the OW owes the BW. IMO, the blame should be placed on the MM and I don't see any reason why the BW should care about the OW or her feelings at all. JMO

Edited March 16, 2010 by herenow

[2sure]

Given that you have not been OW or BS or WS....the self righteous tone of your convictions...

 

Sounds a lot like the kind of advice you hear about children from people who have never had them.

[donnamaybe]

I am not stirring the pot. I am not sarcastic or rude. I will be the first to admit my post did not come out as I meant, I work with men who at this very minute are in pretty heavy affairs, one is long term. I hear what they are saying, I can hear them talk to the wife, and girlfriend.

 

But you do NOT live in the marital home, thus, do not see the REALITY. All you hear is a MM running his mouth.

[Lizzie60]

Hum.. Nicole11.. I tried to read yesterday..but thought it was too long.. I finally got the time now (at work) to read the whole post..

 

I was a little surprised.. I have to say that I felt it was a little jab at the BSs.. and not sure why.. because you say you're not a OW... I find it strange..

 

I am an OW (to many MMs).. and I have to say that those guys are jerks.. IMO...

 

I find that a MM who openly show off his OW is a jerk.. and has no respect for his W and most of all, his kids.. If he wants to scr*w another woman, for whatever reasons.. then he should keep it secret.. and not make it public..

 

I would never ever go anywhere public with any of my MMs so that he could get caught or people would know.. etc.

 

[califnan]

Once in a while a MM finds someone he can be truly honest with and doesn't need to lie anymore. I believe that happened in the case of OWoman, GEL, Jennie-Jennie, Fallen Angel, and me.

 

It all boils down, once again, to true intimacy. Wherever he finds trust and a place he can be himself is where he will tell the truth.

 

------------------

 

I don't believe that the "MM" has lied to me .. But I do believe that he has lied to Himself. The fact that he hasn't lied to me, makes him no less than the Cad - It seems it should take more than a truthful adulterer to consider a relationship righteous ..

[herenow]

Ok, so us wives should make sure we always look good for our H's. Fine, but I choose to look good because it makes me feel good. If my H likes it as well, then it's a bonus. How 1950's to say that women should keep healthy and fit to keep a man. No problem if you want to live your life only to please another. IMO, a person needs to be happy with themselves before they can be happy in a relationship. JMO

 

The above comment is what confuses me. I have read so many times that the OW doesn't owe the BW anything because she (the OW) didn't break any vows or promises. That the MM is the one to blame. I agree 100%. However, it seems like you are saying that the BW should think (or care) about the OW's feelings.

 

Once an OW becomes involved with a MM, we can assume that she isn't doing if out of concern for the wife. The "women should stand up for women" idea has already been thrown out the window. IMO, at that point all bets are off and the BW doesn't owe the OW any more than the OW owes the BW. IMO, the blame should be placed on the MM and I don't see any reason why the BW should care about the OW or her feelings at all. JMO

 

I just want to add that, IMO, your thinking is a bit warped to be judging the looks of the BW without knowing anything else about them. They could be wonderful women trapped in an abusive married. You have no idea, nor do I.

[califnan]

------------------

 

I don't believe that the "MM" has lied to me .. But I do believe that he has lied to Himself. The fact that he hasn't lied to me, makes him no less than the Cad - It seems it should take more than a truthful adulterer to consider a relationship righteous ..

 

In other words: If you have been lied to by the devil, what difference does it make - what your adulterer says or does ..