yes Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 i'm just frustrated with myself for allowing selfish users into my life, and taking a long time to evict them from it - it's like i need a billion signs before i see clearly what they are and get rid of them. i mean, sure they're smooth and fun, but - hello, how naive can one be! i know i'm learning here but uhhhh! anyway, one of the threads yesterday made a distinction between FUN and JOY, that got stuck in my head. these selfish losers know how to make a girl have fun, but there's certainly no joy in the relationships with them. on the other hand, the nice boys who've liked me clearly signified joy, not fun, and got ignored because of that. i guess the obvious solution is to learn to have fun w/out assistance and find a man who can bring joy into this mess called a life ... -yes Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 yes - you can have plenty of fun with the man who brings you joy!!!! Maybe you still think 'bad boys' are the only fun boys, but there is tons of fun to be had without being 'bad'! Link to post Share on other sites
Author yes Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 that'd make sense, moimeme! i can't put my finger on what it is about these selfish smoothies that's so damn attractive and that the normal men are missing. there's one normal guy who's been into me for years - whenever i'm with him, i have a blast - laughing, talking, etc. so indeed, the fun's there. perhaps i have a fear of committment or intimacy or smth like that *sigh* the fact that those smoothies are usually very aggressive may be a factor, too - temporary remedy for insecurity. or perhaps it's just up until recently i was more interested in a sexual r/s than a real r/s, and now that i've tried that and saw how lil it's worth, i'm after better things - yeah, that makes sense... i puzzle myself... -yes Link to post Share on other sites
monkey00 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 selfish as in only cares about himself? i think the type of guy you're describing is the jerk fear of committment? then that means you're into players then sounds to me like you're not ready to settle down yet, go ahead and have fun while you're still young. and theyre all in for it for the pussy!! Link to post Share on other sites
d1410 Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 yes, you are not alone. I do the very same thing !!! I'm attracted to the selfish guys and go for the "fun" instead of the lasting joy. I haven't figured out why I choose the men I do. Indeed, it could be a committment issue..something from my past. Think back to Your past....were you ever in a situation that led you to mistrust someone, so now you're not ready to get close to someone that will treat you right? for fear of rejection? I also have a girlfriend who gets mixed up with the "unavailable" types. She says it's because her dad was never there for her emotionally growing up, so she expects the same from a partner...it's what she is used too. I wish I had the answers but I'm struggling with the same thing. I hope my comments have made some sense to you and will help you figure things out. d1410 Link to post Share on other sites
Jussme Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 If I may let me give a few suggestions to help not only a new and better life choice but also a way to possibly avoid this same situation from arising again. I had a client once who consistently went for men who like yourselves were either abusive, selfish, or lacked any form of morality and cheated on her. I gave her a choice of either looking for what she seemed to be lacking in her own life and wanting from others. The one sure way to continue a life style is never to look at where we are at and where we are wanting to be. We cannot give what we do not own, If I have no love or liking of oneself you cannot give that to another. The hardest part of living is looking at ourselves and honestly giving ourselves a report card. What is it I need (not want) What is it I am lacking in my life? How well do I care for me ? How do I treat me when I am with me at a social setting. Am I always dumping me for another yet bad relationship. Honesty in self evaluation is critical and also cleansing. It allows us the chance to make amends to ourselves and be better for the effort. To any person having issues with relationships I urge you to buy and read "The road less traveled" by M Scott Peck. I hope this helps and that we can all learn that all good relationships start with the concept of compliment not complete ourselves. Link to post Share on other sites
subtitled Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 i can tell you why it is you fall for these men, because i've analysed it in relation to myself.. ok, you look at yourself and you see yourself as beneath these men. You see: You = shy Them = confident You = insecure Them = 100% secure with themselves You = boring Them = exciting Then, you look at these 'normal' men. You see: You = Them. All the things you hate about yourself, you see in the 'normal' men, and all the things you wish you had, you see in the 'selfish' men, and thus look up to them and down on the normal ones --> when you get the opportunity to go out with one of the selfish ones, you're proving to yourself that you aren't so bad afterall, i mean if a guy with all the attributes you want likes you, then you mustn't be half as bad as you think... UNTIL they start pushing buttons that make you feel like absolute **** because you haven't grown a spine for yourself yet. So... the thing is this: grow a spine for yourself. Do everything that makes you feel good about yourself, avoid the stuff that makes you feel like **** (ie. keeping in contact with selfish wankers who do nothing for your self esteem). Learn that you are top ****, that the world is your oyster and you will make the most of it because that is why you are here. Get some self-esteem, and some confidence, and you will have the attributes of the 'selfish' men, but you won't be selfish because you know who you want to be. Suddenly, men, normal and selfish, all of them, will be dropping at your feet because --what is more attractive than someone in control of themselves and their life, happy and secure? best of luck. ps. this is also my plan of action for the next few years Link to post Share on other sites
d1410 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Great advice! d1410 Link to post Share on other sites
Author yes Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 check your PM box -yes Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Hey, subtitled, what you said was WAY too perceptive, and it made me have to think about my own attitudes. Don't do that again. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I totally agree. In the thought of 'opposites' attract......... I always make the joke if there is a loser out there with tons of bills, broke and irresponsible....I will fall in love with it or marry it. HAHA! Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 The reason you do it is because you're a woman, and women like challenges. And I know the p.c. police are coming after me, so bring it on! The fact is, you all know I'm right about this. I remember I used to be brainwashed by all this Hollywood b.s., thinking that if you just complimented women enough they'd eventually wake up and say "Wow! I never knew he loved me THAT much. I think I'll marry him" What bulls***. Look, I know women don't want abusive jerks, and if you're dating abusive jerks, it's because you probably have issues with your own sense of self worth. Even if you don't, you don't want the guy who kisses your ass; you want the one who stands up for himself and doesn't take any of the usual cr@p that both sides engage in (men and women) when they're dating. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 But you're not bitter. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I totally agree Amer.....once a guy kisses my ass....he's history. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 But that can be a heck of a lot of fun, Arabess! Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Well....I meant....if we weren't having SEX at the time.....hahahaha! Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 No, I'm not bitter, but I'm going to be late for work if I don't make this fast No, I'm not bitter. I'm just smarter about dating than I used to be. I'm not saying that women want jerks - they don't. What they do want though is a guy who's not afraid to be a jerk when he has to be, and that's the point I'm trying to make. Guys fall into these Oprah Winfrey female traps - we've seen countless of them on these forums already...the guy who dates the chick who crashes at his pad but goes out with other guys; the guy who gets compared to the other men in her past; the guy who gets kicked to the curb because she flipped out about his sexual history...and I know of so many more stories, too. The female trap artists say that you should talk about your feelings more with women and that you should pour your heart out, and that's just a load of cr@p and every woman reading this message knows it. If you do it at all, you don't do it until much later in your relationship...like AFTER she's gained your trust and when she finally has a better idea of whether or not she's going to keep you around. Women will use your feelings and your statements against you in a court of love. That's just the way the game is played. If I were bitter I wouldn't date - I don't need the aggravation that much. The fact is I date, and I date often, and as you know I'm in a relationship (and in a quandary) right now in fact. I know women better now than I ever did before...when I was kissing their asses so much. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I think the bottom line is.....a woman wants a man who is stronger than she is. The problem with that is.....sometimes a total idiot can appear to be the HE man.....when the quiet guy in the corner may actually be the Superman she's looking for. I don't know about other women.....but I want a man who can take care of me. I don't mean financially or even just sexually.....I'm talking about a man who makes you feel secure and protected. It's the same thought as to why children often do better with parents who are more stricter and less lenient. If they are stronger in will than their parent.....who will take care of them? I'm a very lenient parent....and have lived to regret it. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 If you do it at all, you don't do it until much later in your relationship...like AFTER she's gained your trust Well, yeah. Women will use your feelings and your statements against you in a court of love. That's just the way the game is played. I guess if you regularly take up with gameswomen. We aren't all that sort of female. .....but I want a man who can take care of me I'll settle for a man who can take care of himself. Not for me the hapless boob that can't find his way around a grocery store or cook a meal to save his own life. If he's grown up enough to fend for himself, then he won't need a mommy to cook for him and pick up after him. Unfortunately, often the 'protector' types are the types who also think being a partner is 'sappy and gay' to borrow Vivvy's phrase. They can also be the sorts who like to rule the roost and aren't fond of cooperation or partnership. Who needs one of them? Blech. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I don't know Moimeme..... I think I'm trying to say I would want a man who if someone broke in the house or it caught on fire.....he would be the Knight in Shining Armor to save me. You know....the kind of guy who catches you when you fall. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 People often react negatively when I say that you have to think of finding a mate as though you're hiring someone for a job (not to mention that you're also looking to be employed at the same time, too). Finding the right love is like finding the ultimate job - because that's exactly what it is. You have to remove the thought of romance from it at times and see it for what it really is in its raw form. You're asking someone to be a part of your life on a permanent basis. You're asking someone to help support you, as you help support them. You're asking them to help pay for a house note, to help pay for a car, life insurance, and lots of other needs that we have in life. You're also potentially looking at someone to be the parent of your children, which is the most awesome responsibility a person could ever have in his or her life. Even without kids, being accountable to another person is enough of a responsibility in its own right. In short, you want the other person to be stable, so you can't just look at the soft side of love; you have to look at the cold hard facts about the person you're dating, and you have to look at yourself as well. That's why dating is such a chore, and that's why at times it can be so brutally painful and almost seemingly merciless. Having said all that, I don't think what I've said is really that controversial. The only reason it is controversial is because we are bombarded with all of these mixed messages about love, and these messages often differ from the reality. You can't make someone want you more by complimenting them or sending them bouquets of flowers or otherwise inundating them with acts of kindness. I think those acts are done to remind and reassure the people in our lives that they matter to us, but they don't raise interest love. I think what DOES raise interest leve is the MAN himself. The aspect of "challenge" often appeals to a woman, particularly women who have no problem picking up guys. I think that's because the last thing a woman wants to do is to worry about having to pick up a guy's self esteem - that's the man's job to do for himself, not hers. All of this does eventually relate very much to what I said at the outset. If a person has high esteem (not to be confused with foolish pride or arrogance, which can be as destructive as a lack of confidence), it makes it more likely that they are going to be able to look after their own needs, which in turns means that he will be in a better position to help support the woman and help her meet her goals in the relationship. People who are stable and who possess high self-esteem are also more likely to be in a position to be providers in other ways too, only adding to the attractiveness they already possess. Indeed, what I said isn't controversial; it's just a law of nature. Sorry to rain on the parade here, but the reality is that while love can indeed be romantic, it's ultimately a job, and when you look for love you're looking for someone who can get the job done. People who are unsure of themselves don't succeed in the office, so why would we expect them to succeed in the bedroom? Not that there's a direct relationship between the two, but there's an analogy to be made somewhere in there I think. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I believe I am on a permanent crusade to decouple the terms 'nice guy' and 'dysfunctionally insecure guy' from each other. The former does not mean the latter, but for the sake of shorthand or laziness, men keep saying they shouldn't be 'nice guys'. It's not what they mean and it give genuinely nice guys a bad rep. I hereby reclaim 'nice' to be used only as an adjective meaning 'nice'. Link to post Share on other sites
Tony T Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I love this thread...keep it going....PLEASE!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by Arabess I don't know about other women.....but I want a man who can take care of me. I don't mean financially or even just sexually.....I'm talking about a man who makes you feel secure and protected. I can relate to this Arabess. I profess myself to be quite the modern woman, but at heart I am still very happy when I am pampered and treated like a lady, and held in the strong muscular shoulders and encircling arms of my man! (But ssshhhhh...don't tell my friends I said that...) Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 pampered and treated like a lady Well, heck, I like that too. I'm the one in the ballgown, remember Link to post Share on other sites
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