Thinkalot Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme I'm the one in the ballgown, remember Speaking of which, Merry, if I may take this thread off topic for a sec...any suggestions on how I can find a dance partner? I want to take lessons, but my guy just ain't into it, and there are already too many women in the class. I am almost ready to put an add in the paper! I love dancing. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 You've got mail Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Look at the title of the thread, moimeme. This story is hardly unique. What's truly telling is that you won't find a thread titled "Why do I always fall for needy, insecure ass-kissers, and have so much trouble losing them?" Women cut them loose after the third compliment about how gorgeous she looks on their first date. And deep in your heart, you know I'm right. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 amerikajin The female trap artists say that you should talk about your feelings more with women and that you should pour your heart out, and that's just a load of cr@p and every woman reading this message knows it.When you describe your feelings to a woman, she will experience those feelings. If you talk about feelings about happiness and joy, she will experience those feelings and believe that she has those feelings for you. She will associate those feeling with you. When you talk about feeling of pain and sadness, she will believe that you are causing her pain, and associate you with feelings of pain and sadness. Think of her feelings and emotions as thumbscrews. Just turn turn turn… Arabess I'm talking about a man who makes you feel secure and protected.amerikajin This is a perfect example. You must be confident without being cocky, assertive without being controlling, honest but not too honest, interested but not too interested, available but not too available, etc. This is like walking a tightrope without a safety net. One fall and you are history. amerikajin Women will use your feelings and your statements against you in a court of love.They will even try to sabotage dates and relationships. Think of it as wind in a tightrope act. amerikajin You have to remove the thought of romance from it at times and see it for what it really is in its raw form. You're asking someone to be a part of your life on a permanent basis.Think of romance as a vehicle for getting her into your life. amerikajin The only reason it is controversial is because we are bombarded with all of these mixed messages about love, and these messages often differ from the reality.Women are hardwired to send mixed messages. amerikajin Women cut them loose after the third compliment about how gorgeous she looks on their first date.Kissing ass can be seen as desperation. I don’t think there many women who want desperate men. moimeme I believe I am on a permanent crusade to decouple the terms 'nice guy' and 'dysfunctionally insecure guy' from each other.I think women usually equate ‘nick guy’ to ‘weak and gullible guy.’ There is something about weakness that people want to exploit and destroy. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Block, I raise up my glass of bubbly and give you a toast, my man! You've earned it with that post. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I think women usually equate ‘nick guy’ to ‘weak and gullible guy.’ There is something about weakness that people want to exploit and destroy. No. They equate 'weak and gullible guy' with 'weak and gullible guy' and 'nice' as 'genuinely nice'. It is MEN who have made the equation you suggest and I wish to God they'd ditch it. Link to post Share on other sites
Tony T Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I think there are a population of females, and I have met a lot of them, who will climb all over a guy who is too nice and generous. They will take him for all he's got, giving minimum in return, and speak of him as a wimp and a pushover. Moimeme, until you grow a penis you probably will never experience this. Consider yourself lucky to be without both...oh, maybe a penis comes in handy sometimes. There are many women to whom a guy who is too nice, to available, to generous, etc. will initially repulse them and drive them away if they aren't users. If they are inclined to be users, they will pounce on a guy like this, suck him dry, and be gone. Of course, there are exceptions. I also think this syndrome is somewhat age specific, in other words younger women are more inclined to do this. As women mature, I think they appreciate nice guys and wish they had some of them in the past back. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 >>As women mature, I think they appreciate nice guys and wish they had some of them in the past back.<< I think you're onto something, Tony. I've noticed that older women do mellow out a little bit and it's easier to take them more seriously when they tell you something. Link to post Share on other sites
Author yes Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 Guys, go back to 'subtitled's post and stop arguing. She said it all. That's how it is for young gals (at least like me and her). I guess you've switched from 'why do some girls fall guys of a certain type' to 'how to treat a girl to get her', but that wasn't the point of the thread... And I agree that how to treat a girl to get her depends on many factors, incl. age - you can't have one method for all of us - it's a matter of getting to know her, analyzing her, and finding what's attractive for her. -yes Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 to Tony: There are many women to whom a guy who is too nice, to available, to generous, etc. will initially repulse them and drive them away if they aren't users What astonishes me about women who complain about selfish men and men who complain about user women is WHY WOULD YOU WANT THESE PEOPLE ANYWAY??????? I'm not yelling, just emphasizing. If he's a selfish SOB, ditch the wretch and look for a nice guy. If you're a nice guy, why do you mourn the loss of a relationship with a horrible woman????????? Be your nice self - to do otherwise means you'll attract - and keep - these horrible women. Who says that the women who fall for - and stay with - selfish jerks are nice, themselves ? Why do you men all bemoan the fact that the jerks get women when the women they get may not at all be the women you want????????? It's so wierd. Look, a decent woman will appreciate you for being nice if you're nice. You deserve nothing less than to be with a woman who appreciates you for exactly who you are. Do NOT change yourself and become fake to win a woman who isn't worthy of you!!!!!! It's just not worth it. If it takes you, Tony, and you, Amerikajin, and any other man thirty years to find a woman who loves you for exactly who you are, isn't that worth it? Because you are both - and all men like you - are suggesting you become something you are not to win women who don't want the sort of man you are. If this isn't madness, then what is? I've said the same thing to women, too. Yes, if you are desperately insecure, you do need to become more secure, but otherwise, if you are nice, stay nice, and wait for the nice partner to come to you. What 'nice' men and 'nice' women need to do is NOT change themselves to win over the jerks/bitches who don't appreciate them, but to quit being so 'nice' that they make allowances for people who won't treat them well so much that they keep them even when they are treated like dirt. They need to learn how to recognize a jerk/selfish/user and FLEE them. Becoming different won't stop the user from using or the selfish guy from being selfish. I think you think that these 'users' would turn into nice, kind, thoughtful humans in response to your turning into a jerk yourself. That's crazy!!!! They might quit using you as much - big whoop. That does not equate to being loving toward you, now does it? If a person is of the makeup to be unkind to someone who is kind to them, then that person is not really spouse material, is s/he?????? Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 yes Guys, go back to 'subtitled's post and stop arguing. She said it all. That's how it is for young gals (at least like me and her).Check Jussme’s post.I like to think of this as laziness. She wants somebody to be confident, and to be a leader for her. Why do some women keep going back to the same jerks? They hate change, and they will resist it even if it is for the better. moimeme Why do you men all bemoan the fact that the jerks get women when the women they get may not at all be the women you want?????????I don’t blame them. They play by the rules, and get punished for it. Women also hate whiners. moimeme It's just not worth it. If it takes you, Tony, and you, Amerikajin, and any other man thirty years to find a woman who loves you for exactly who you are, isn't that worth it?I can see how romantic it is for a guy to put that much time and effort into finding a woman. Personally, I don’t think searching for one woman is worth 30 years of my life. In fact, no woman is worth that much effort. If she were to ask me, I’ll say that I would spend the rest of my life searching for her. She would never forgive me if I told her the truth. moimeme I think you think that these 'users' would turn into nice, kind, thoughtful humans in response to your turning into a jerk yourself. That's crazy!!!!Weakness seems to turn lambs into ravenous wolves. If I turn myself into a bull’s-eye, how many people would take a shot? All of us have the capacity to wrong others, and some cannot resist the opportunity that weakness provides. Watch out for the people that say that they are always good. Link to post Share on other sites
Tony T Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I agree with everything you've written above, but in your earlier post you wrote: "I think women usually equate ‘nick guy’ to ‘weak and gullible guy.’ There is something about weakness that people want to exploit and destroy." No. They equate 'weak and gullible guy' with 'weak and gullible guy' and 'nice' as 'genuinely nice'. " Fact is that MANY women equate a guy who is way too nice, especially in the beginning, with somebody who is "weak and gullible." It's just a fact. Many will pounce all over his butt. I didn't write it. I didn't think it up. I didn't design it. It's just a fact. For references, put "nice guy" in your google and google yourself to death. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Fact is that MANY women equate a guy who is way too nice, especially in the beginning, with somebody who is "weak and gullible." It's just a fact. Many will pounce all over his butt And this is a problem because.......? Sure, there are bitches out there. You want one? If no, then what's the problem? If you're nice and a woman 'pounces all over your butt' - this is a woman you want? This is a desirable person to have? My point is NOT that there aren't women like that around. My point is why on earth would you even be sorry you don't have one? Link to post Share on other sites
Tony T Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 "My point is why on earth would you even be sorry you don't have one?" Who said I or anybody did? I just simply said that those people exist. Period. That simple. Easy. Over and out. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 ROTFL. Person 1 "The sky is blue". Person 2 "No, really, the sky is blue". Person 1 "But I said the sky is blue" Person 2 "For goodness sakes - the sky is blue" OK. I guess I misunderstood. I keep hearing people complain that 'nice guys finish last' and the context is usually that they are still alone and all these supposedly fabulous ladies are passing them by which is where I was aiming my remarks. Yes, there are murderers, rapists, child-abusers, and other undesirable humans on the planet. There are people who will take advantage of you financially. There are all manner of unpleasant humans that you can encounter in all aspects of your life. Basically, if you are so naïve that you are naive about the state of the planet, you need to be warned to keep your heart safe until you understand what sort of human you're dealing with. You ought not hand your heart (or, for that matter, your cash) to someone on a platter until you've sorted out that that someone deserves it and can be trusted. But none of this means you ought not be nice. I think that we need to use more vocabulary. In this instance, we are talking about 'naïve'. Not every naïve person is nice and vice-versa. In other cases, we are talking about people who are people-pleasers. Again, not all of those are nice and vice-versa. So I'll stay on my soapbox but let's call it a linguistic soapbox. Let's call a spade a spade and not a 'nice' shovel Link to post Share on other sites
Prettyangel Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Doing something over and over again and getting the same results is called ..........Insanity! Ask yourself why you allow these things to happen to you? It all starts with you and has zero to do with the guys you meet. When you change, you will be amazed to what happens with you so far as making healthy choices with men. Good luck!! Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 >>>Guys, go back to 'subtitled's post and stop arguing. She said it all. That's how it is for young gals (at least like me and her). <<< Hey, you get us started - we'll decide when it's time to stop. And no, she didn't say it all. I've been dating (or trying to date) women since you were in diapers, and I know the REAL answer to your question. The fact is, you women like a good challenge. You'd rather spend time with a guy who blows you off than the same guy who kisses your butt. You think you can change someone or make them feel a way that they don't feel at present. You think that's what love is; instead, that's what love isn't. Love is about two people approaching each other as equals. Link to post Share on other sites
Author yes Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 And no, she didn't say it all. I've been dating (or trying to date) women since you were in diapers, and I know the REAL answer to your question. The fact is, you women like a good challenge. You'd rather spend time with a guy who blows you off than the same guy who kisses your butt. You think you can change someone or make them feel a way that they don't feel at present. You think that's what love is; instead, that's what love isn't. whoa, buddy, how do YOU know what *I* think? back off and ease up!! Your lack of luck with women ain't my fault. Yes, both women and men like a challenge (that goes perfectly well with approaching each other as equals btw) - a very nice man CAN be a challenge - if he simply doesn't shower the women with niceness constantly. No, I don't ever spend time with guys who blow me off - I spend time with guys who're after me for selfish reasons and don't deserve me - and my original question was about why I'd do that. -yes Link to post Share on other sites
Author yes Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 You're right that it's in me - and i'm trying to figure out what it is; although i suspect i will naturally change, with time, because of age, circumstances & experiences. thanks for your reply, -yes Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 yes, I thought you thought initially that these guys were 'exciting'. I think you're just finding out that the 'excitement' is not so much fun after all, and is usually caused by the drama of tryng to relate to someone who's shallow or emotinally unavailable. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 For those of you who think the 'nice person always gets shafted'.......THINK of the last person who wanted to be with you....but you didn't want to be with them. Maybe they were NICE as hell....but they didn't float your boat. Honestly, I look at a guy who is TOO nice as a sale which has been marked down once too many times.....cause NOBODY wanted to buy it. I'ts out of season.....and out of style. Link to post Share on other sites
subtitled Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 to blockhead and amerikajin.... my post is an opinion, as are yours, however you are men.... both yes and i and other women who posted in this topic can relate to my theory. and i doubt it's out of denial to yours, despite what you may think. Also, you said that "The fact is, you women like a good challenge. You'd rather spend time with a guy who blows you off than the same guy who kisses your butt. " i think you're saying the same thing as me... but i'm explaining it through issues to do with personal esteem... i think women with low self-esteem put themselves to this challenge unwisely. "Love is about two people approaching each other as equals." that is exactly right. and why women should get some confidence and believe in themselves as should men, before approaching a relationsihp, so they dont have issues with power and insecurities about it. sounds like you've both been hurt in relationships... Link to post Share on other sites
Author yes Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 of course they're exciting at first... i was wondering why i didn't see past that, why i settled for their shallow excitement instead of a less-exciting-at-first but more quality man. (it's early and i'm having trouble formulating my thoughts...) -yes Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Arabess THINK of the last person who wanted to be with you....but you didn't want to be with them.She was a manipulator, and she tried to play head games. subtitled sounds like you've both been hurt in relationships...Consider yourself lucky if you were never hurt in a relationship. If this is your way of discrediting amerikajin and I, it won’t work. subtitled my post is an opinion, as are yours, however you are men....We were theorizing based on firsthand experience, and nonfiction books. I understand that most women don’t know who they are, or what they want. subtitled "Love is about two people approaching each other as equals."So are friends, and siblings. subtitled i think women with low self-esteem put themselves to this challenge unwisely.I believe that manipulating and controlling people is arrogant. It is like breaking a horse. Tony Okay, I'll let this one go. Link to post Share on other sites
Tony T Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 YOU WRITE: "I understand that most women don’t know who they are, or what they want. Few are analytical, and willing to subject themselves to the rigors of self-examination." Oh, Shxt!!! That statement could get the whole site shut down for sure!!! Are you certain you want that left up? I'd be happy to delete it. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts