In danger of becoming 'The Other Woman'.

[xenomaniac]

Hi.

 

My problem, in a nut shell: I'm into a guy who is amazing in every way except...his "ex" doesn't seem to realize their relationship is over & he doesn't want to ruin her life by kicking her out, 'etc'. Note: I have yet to sleep with him, though we have had a heavy makeout/groping session. But that's it.

 

Fear: defaulting into the Other Woman, something that would compromise my ideals and my own sense of self-worth. Also, it would cheapen our dynamic: I believe we have potential as a real couple. I'd rather wait for that. But how long?

 

Background:

 

- This guy (who is my age, a very talented & successful creative professional) asked me out in December told me he had just broken up with his girlfriend and he was in the process of getting her moved out (she's a young artist: very talented & also broke--the usual young & tragic story).

- At that point, I had no expectations. It was our first meeting, and as far as I was concerned, it was going to be a one-off 'meet-up for a drink', and that's it.

- We really, really hit it off. I instantly felt connected to him & it was obvious the feeling was mutual. We ended up extending the evening to include dinner, which went well into the early morning hours. We ended the evening with a simple kiss on the lips.

- We ended up chatting online everyday over the holidays.

- Even as we bonded, the situation with his 'ex' became ambiguous: from what I could observe on Facebook, it seemed she had no idea they were no longer a couple. I began to get suspicious, but didn't yet feel it was my right to ask, since we were just flirting still, not dating.

- We were supposed to hang out again in early January, but he ended up rescheduling, which led me to doubt his interest in me. I sort of backed off and became aloof.

- Of course, he suddenly re-emerged and apologized for his absence, saying he'd been going through a lot. He also "officially" broke up with his ex on Facebook and announced to me he'd given her an ultimatum to move out by March.

- I became consumed with work from late January onwards and our communication sort of broke off. I tried to message him a few times and received no reply, so I figure "Fine. Another flaky *******. Whatever."

- I wrote him an email that basically said: "So, I guess we aren't talking now. It's a shame. I get the sense that something has changed for you and I wish you'd just told me instead of excommunicating me. I'm not angry, just disappointed." It was politely disdainful. I expected no response.

- Surprise! He did reply to me (on what happened to be one of the most hectic workdays of my entire career). He said I had it all wrong, and he hadn't meant to lose touch, just that he'd had a crazy few weeks. He said "I'd love to see you--next week?"

- I waited to reply. I finally got back to him, stating that it was nice to hear from him and maybe we could chat and see where things were at.

- After that, he started chatting with me online again and we sort of "made up".

- We FINALLY had a second date after another delay (this time, my fault), and once again, I was unprepared for how the evening would go. I forgot how much we connected in person, how effortlessly we interacted, how right it felt to spend time with him.

- He told me his 'situation' his ex is complicated and that he literally left the apartment for a week to send the message it was over. She didn't leave. And then he sort of stopped trying.

- When I finally asked him if he was really single enough to even be seeing me, he was like "not really, but I really am trying to be."

- We ended up making out, 'etc' & it was amazing. No regrets there.

- We've been in steady contact online since and will probably go out again soon.

 

 

But before that happens, I need to assess things. Should I tell him we can't date until he is fully single--meaning the ex is moved out once & for all? Or is it okay to start dating him while he's still in this 'gray phase'--will it ruin our potential? Will he respect me less? AHHH. I don't know what to do, because I've never been in this position. Should we be 'friends' for now? Or is it too late for that since we've hooked up? So many questions.

 

Is it too soon for me to give him an ultimatum?

 

I know some people will say, "move on, girl!". Great. Easy to say--but I really like him, find him attractive, & I know that we're a good match. If it wasn't for his complication, we'd be dating, no doubt.

 

Ah, so frustrated but trying to be reasonable before it's too late & I regret something. Help!

[pureinheart]

Hey XM....I am really tired, so I hope this makes sense...I may have missed this in your OP, although you have every right to ask him if he is single and to prove it...it's about what YOU want, not him at this point...

 

Please let us know how this turns out....

[OpenBook]

I know some people will say, "move on, girl!". Great. Easy to say--but I really like him, find him attractive, & I know that we're a good match. If it wasn't for his complication, we'd be dating, no doubt.

 

I'd be more worried about the sudden withdrawals. That kind of behavior would be a huge red flag for me.

[mrkleen]

And even if he ever DOES leave her – which is doubtful, then what is going to stop him from doing that same thing to you?

 

Once a cheater – ALWAYS a cheater.

[Brokenlady]

his "ex" doesn't seem to realize their relationship is over & he doesn't want to ruin her life by kicking her out, 'etc'.

 

As a former OW, I've thought this many many times. It's crap. She doesn't "get" that it's over because it isn't. If it was over, truly over, he'd actually end it. He's gaslighting you.

 

Fear: defaulting into the Other Woman, something that would compromise my ideals and my own sense of self-worth.

 

Nothing in the world is worth that. Nothing. If you lose yourself, you gain nothing.

 

Also, it would cheapen our dynamic: I believe we have potential as a real couple. I'd rather wait for that. But how long?

 

Why wait on him? If you are "meant to be", he'll avail himself to you before you become seriously involved with another. If you wait, you essentially choose to invest yourself in an illusory relationship (a "future" realtionship that may or may not ever come to fruition). The longer you wait, the more invested you get, the more tempted you'll be to cross the line, which will cause you to be more invested while he does nothing at all to fix the situation. Don't do this to yourself.

 

Background:

 

- This guy (who is my age, a very talented & successful creative professional) asked me out in December told me he had just broken up with his girlfriend and he was in the process of getting her moved out (she's a young artist: very talented & also broke--the usual young & tragic story).

 

Dare I ask if you make more than him? Could it be that he's leeching off of her until he can replace her?

 

- Even as we bonded, the situation with his 'ex' became ambiguous: from what I could observe on Facebook, it seemed she had no idea they were no longer a couple. I began to get suspicious, but didn't yet feel it was my right to ask, since we were just flirting still, not dating.

 

This is HUGE. She probably does have no idea he's telling anyone it's over between them - and from how he's acting, it doesn't sound like it is over. If you suspect he's lying, you owe it to yourself to confront him.

 

- We were supposed to hang out again in early January, but he ended up rescheduling, which led me to doubt his interest in me. I sort of backed off and became aloof.

- Of course, he suddenly re-emerged and apologized for his absence, saying he'd been going through a lot. He also "officially" broke up with his ex on Facebook and announced to me he'd given her an ultimatum to move out by March.

- I became consumed with work from late January onwards and our communication sort of broke off. I tried to message him a few times and received no reply, so I figure "Fine. Another flaky *******. Whatever."

- I wrote him an email that basically said: "So, I guess we aren't talking now. It's a shame. I get the sense that something has changed for you and I wish you'd just told me instead of excommunicating me. I'm not angry, just disappointed." It was politely disdainful. I expected no response.

- Surprise! He did reply to me (on what happened to be one of the most hectic workdays of my entire career). He said I had it all wrong, and he hadn't meant to lose touch, just that he'd had a crazy few weeks. He said "I'd love to see you--next week?"

- I waited to reply. I finally got back to him, stating that it was nice to hear from him and maybe we could chat and see where things were at.

- After that, he started chatting with me online again and we sort of "made up".

 

 

Given your doubts about his truthfulness, and what you percieved as his lack of interest, why did you pursue him?

 

- He told me his 'situation' his ex is complicated and that he literally left the apartment for a week to send the message it was over. She didn't leave. And then he sort of stopped trying.

- When I finally asked him if he was really single enough to even be seeing me, he was like "not really, but I really am trying to be."

 

I KNOW you see the contradiction here. He SAYS he's trying, but his actions say otherwise. And it sounds as if he's convincing you to not pay attention to "the man behind the curtain". Classic gaslighting.

 

I know some people will say, "move on, girl!". Great. Easy to say--but I really like him, find him attractive, & I know that we're a good match. If it wasn't for his complication, we'd be dating, no doubt.

 

And if it weren't for the cancer, Patrick Swayze wouldn't be dead. His live-in relationship is real, significant, and he obviously isn't willing to give it up right now. This isn't a small, annoying, complication. This is huge. HUGE.

 

If you go down this path with him, there is only heartache in your future. I think there is no higher crime in social life than to make some doubt themselves, their worth and their sanity and you are essentially considering allowing him to do just that. Let go. Please.

[2sure]

 

...but I really like him, find him attractive, & I know that we're a good match. If it wasn't for his complication, we'd be dating, no doubt.

 

Consider this - you like him so much, even after his "complication" has made him pretty much inaccessible except for 2 dates. You are being told his "complication" will be resolved so wait. His "complication" will prevent you from going to his place, calling unless he is alone, meeting his family, etc. You would be excluded from any part of his life that typically is relationship area. Yet, you like him enough to consider making this sacrifice, at least temporarily. To wait.

 

But, since you believe this attraction is mutual...why isnt he able to make some sacrifice and make himself available? If he moved out for one week...why did he go back? They arent married. How hard is it to get another apartment or...if he must, help her get one. Thing is...he is telling you: Look! I'm such a great guy I feel obligated and responsible for my "ex" GF who cant take care of herself. So, if I'm cheating...its for a good and noble reason.

 

Sure.

[carhill]

Uncomplicate things: When he is 'single' and can entertain you as a single man in his own home, that would be an invitation you'd accept willingly, assuming, if he was otherwise available, you'd be sexually active with him already.

 

'Artsy' and 'creative, talented, professional' people don't get a pass on ethical and proper behavior. They're human and responsible just like the rest of us.

 

Don't date him until he's demonstrably (actions, not words) single. Accept no 'explanations'. Those are merely creatively formed clouds of carbon dioxide. Good luck

[whichwayisup]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t224593/

 

Read this, and then think about whether or not you truly want to put yourself in this type of situation, to have an affair and be the OW.

[xenomaniac]

I DO NOT WANT AN AFFAIR.

 

I'm trying to figure out if there's any hope for this to turn into something more. In person, we've had this discussion and he says that he'd like me to be his girlfriend, then he always adds, "Someday right? We have our whole lives."

 

 

I think we're going to have a chat tonight.

[2sure]

Someday right? We have our whole lives."

 

Be the OW or dont, of course BUT please do not let him set you up with this old line.

 

He is already using words, no actions to try to give you the impression that he is a martyr , a good guy, a victim of circumstance.

 

Now, with the above line he tell you basically, if I were free I woulld want a relationship with you. Dangling it like a carrot.

 

He isnt free, he has no relationship to offer you. And believe me...he wouldnt dangle it like that. Thats crap.

[mrkleen]

I DO NOT WANT AN AFFAIR.

 

I'm trying to figure out if there's any hope for this to turn into something more. In person, we've had this discussion and he says that he'd like me to be his girlfriend, then he always adds, "Someday right? We have our whole lives."

 

 

I think we're going to have a chat tonight.

 

Even if you DID get together with him.....I have to ask

 

What happens when this guy goes on the road on a business trip?

What happens when you have a big fight and he storms off to the local watering hole?

What happens when his ex calls - or he runs into an old flame - or when he is looking at facebook etc etc?

 

This guy is a shady, sleazy person - he is not someone you can trust, and if you end up with him you deserve whatever you go through. Sorry.

[carhill]

I DO NOT WANT AN AFFAIR.

 

Excellent. Kudos. That's a healthy perspective. Re-read my prior post to take positive steps to ensure that kind of a healthy perspective continuing. I've been an OM and a MM and understand the dynamic. Be proactive. Positive *actions*.

[xenomaniac]

I don't get the sense he's trying to be sleazy. I get the sense he sort of developed a crush on me (and unfortunately vice versa) at a time when he's looking to get out of a relationship but admits he is "bad at knowing how to make big decisions" like that. It's actually more of a friendship full of "what ifs" etc.

 

He's actually a pretty kind person in general and even said "I don't want to hurt anyone" blah blah blah. I know it's easy to demonize people on forums etc., and obviously he should be handling this better, but I think it comes down to the fact he really doesn't know what he wants or what to do.

 

Young & confused, not evil.

 

 

Luckily, keeping this in mind makes it easier for me to say, "Hey, when you come out the other side, let me know" and disappear.

[mrkleen]

All I can say about that is – consider the shoe being on the other foot.

 

How would you feel if every morning your man left for work or school and was talking with and flirting with another woman. Telling her secrets that he holds back from you, expressing his interest, thinking of her in a sexual way?

 

I can guess how you would feel about it – and how you would feel about a man that would do that to you. I don’t think kind would be the first word to cross your mind.

[xenomaniac]

I understand that, too.

 

But if that man also had tried to kick me out of his house for months & told me it was over many times, I might start to wonder if I was overstaying my welcome. I probably also wouldn't be shocked if he started to develop interest in other people. I would take my cue and leave.

 

(I know he isn't lying about trying to kick her out because I have proof of the 'conflicts' they went through in January.)

 

That said, I understand that break-ups can be messy, but they shouldn't take an eternity. It's not fair to her, it's not fair to me, and--you know what?--it's not even fair to him because he's simply keeping himself in a boring holding pattern because he fears confrontation.

[carhill]

Break-ups can be simple. I helped my stbx buy a new house, moved what she wanted into it, and we filed for divorce. I implore you to resist becoming addicted to their drama. It's unhealthy. I did it once, and my own perspective ruined a decade of my life. What's going on between them has nothing to do with *you*. You do what is healthy for *you*.

 

If he fears confrontation, is that the kind of man you're attracted to? Think you can 'save' him from his life of 'misery'? Think again. Take a long hard look in the mirror. Is that what you want?

[xenomaniac]

Break-ups can be simple. I helped my stbx buy a new house, moved what she wanted into it, and we filed for divorce. I implore you to resist becoming addicted to their drama. It's unhealthy. I did it once, and my own perspective ruined a decade of my life. What's going on between them has nothing to do with *you*. You do what is healthy for *you*.

 

If he fears confrontation, is that the kind of man you're attracted to? Think you can 'save' him from his life of 'misery'? Think again. Take a long hard look in the mirror. Is that what you want?

 

 

NO. It is not. Time to be selfish, for once.

[mrkleen]

I understand that, too.

 

But if that man also had tried to kick me out of his house for months & told me it was over many times, I might start to wonder if I was overstaying my welcome. I probably also wouldn't be shocked if he started to develop interest in other people. I would take my cue and leave.

 

(I know he isn't lying about trying to kick her out because I have proof of the 'conflicts' they went through in January.)

 

That said, I understand that break-ups can be messy, but they shouldn't take an eternity. It's not fair to her, it's not fair to me, and--you know what?--it's not even fair to him because he's simply keeping himself in a boring holding pattern because he fears confrontation.

 

Listen, you are a rebound by any definition…in fact, you are not even a rebound…you are a pre-rebound…which is clearly even worse.

 

You pretty much have zero chance of working out with this guy right now.

 

If he was REALLY unhappy, he would want to end the relationship and take some time to clear his head and get back to doing things for himself. He isn’t doing that, he is making excuses and being sneaky.

 

The only way you two even have a chance is if you back off for a while and let him work out his stuff on his own. Otherwise you are nothing but a crutch that will be discarded as soon as he feels better.

[xenomaniac]

There's no question that their relationship is about to die.

 

It comes down to whether I should keep him on my radar until that happens or just move on.

 

Was just talking to my brother about this, and he says: "You don't get it. It ISN'T that easy to just break up with someone you've been with for years. It isn't such an immediate thing. It's a shame you developed interest in him before he's fully single, but I understand it from his perspective, too. It is not black and white."

[Brokenlady]

Was just talking to my brother about this, and he says: "You don't get it. It ISN'T that easy to just break up with someone you've been with for years. It isn't such an immediate thing. It's a shame you developed interest in him before he's fully single, but I understand it from his perspective, too. It is not black and white."

 

Does your brother have a history of cheating? Breaking up is only as complicated as you make it. This guy isn't even married! I left a decade-long marriage, and speak from experience. This is nonsense.

[xenomaniac]

Nope! HA.

My brother is in college & just got out of a 2.5 year relationship. He says it's easy to feel guilty when the girl cries, 'etc'.

[mrkleen]

Why do people bother to ask for advice, when they are just going to do what they want from the beginning?

 

You KNOW this is not a healthy relationship…yet you keep coming up with excuse after excuse.

[carhill]

It's LS tradition. She'll figure out what path is best. She sounds young. Lots of such experience ahead for her

[torranceshipman]

When you say you have proof of their conflicts in January, what do you mean? Because conflicts are part of R's, and that was back in January, and they are still together. That's no proof of anything.

 

He is playing you - he has a weak character, is full of drama, and is gaslighting you. His stories about her are lies - she is blatantly not living with him because she is refusing to accept the end and 'accept her cue'. She hasn't had a cue - they are still together - that's why they still live in the same apartment. He's pretending it's over and it isn't. Also, he has flaked out on you a bunch of times already, and you had to chase him more than once to maintain this flirtation of yours. Sounds like a lot of effort for a pretty low quality return.

 

But I do appreciate that you need to find this stuff out for yourself, and it is harder to accept this advice off a bunch of strangers. But if you need the full story and don't believe us, talk to the girlfriend.

Edited March 17, 2010 by torranceshipman

[carhill]

If you need the full story and don't believe us, talk to the girlfriend.

 

Yes, nothing more refreshing and positive than transparency. Good advice. She might be surprised by the results