When the handwriting is on the wall

[EricaH329]

First, i'd like to say that i'm not trying to attack you in any way. I really hope you are not taking my posts as such. I am also, in no way shape or form, judging you. We all have issues, no one can deny that. I am just trying to help you recognize these issues so maybe you can begin working towards fixing them. I just want what's really best for you, as opposed to what feels best for you at the moment.

 

After reading your most recent post, i've realized that you and I have a completely different outlook on what a serious relationship should be made up of, and it's just something you and I will have to agree to disagree about.

 

I truly hope that maybe something i've said to you in this thread has stuck. And if not, I at least hope that i've given you the feeling that someone out there does care about your well being, and is there for you to vent to.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that anything else I have to say will be very supportive of your most current situation, and therefore I am going to keep my opinions to myself. I really do hope that everything works out for the best for you! I have faith that you'll make the right decisions.

 

Good luck!!!

[GrayClouds]

Though I may share a few of my options. You say you understand you become dependent, that you have abandonment issues. But rather then finding a healthy way of addressing this issues you choose unhealthy ways. Your not attracting people who feeds your soul, your attaching on to whoever is hot, feeds your ego that your desirable. Even this current one is not is not into you being a happy, healthy individual. She only knows you as a sad broken hearted guy, or you faking it real good to her which is even sadder. Either case they are not falling for the real you, how can you expect these relationships last. Your inability to handle being alone has you using people to feel about yourself better and deceiving, be it intentionally or unintentionally, people to be with you. You deserve someone who love you for you.

 

The sad fact is until you are willing to do the work to learn to be happy alone with yourself, your going to continue to choose people who will help you play out this pattern of abandonment and reinforce a seated belief that you do not deserve real love.

Edited June 4, 2010 by GrayClouds

[paperchase]

Though I may share a few of my options. You say you understand you become dependent, that you have abandonment issues. But rather then finding a healthy way of addressing this issues you choose unhealthy ways. Your not attracting people who feeds your soul, your attaching on to whoever is hot, feeds your ego that your desirable. Even this current one is not is not into you being a happy, healthy individual. She only knows you as a sad broken hearted guy, or you faking it real good to her which is even sadder. Either case they are not falling for the real you, how can you expect these relationships last. Your inability to handle being alone has you using people to feel about yourself better and deceiving, be it intentionally or unintentionally, people to be with you. You deserve someone who love you for you.

 

The sad fact is until you are willing to do the work to learn to be happy alone with yourself, your going to continue to choose people who will help you play out this pattern of abandonment and reinforce a seated belief that you do not deserve real love.

 

Very interesting perspective. Not completely on point but deserving of serious consideration. Thanks for your thoughtful insight.

[paperchase]

First, i'd like to say that i'm not trying to attack you in any way. I really hope you are not taking my posts as such. I am also, in no way shape or form, judging you. We all have issues, no one can deny that. I am just trying to help you recognize these issues so maybe you can begin working towards fixing them. I just want what's really best for you, as opposed to what feels best for you at the moment.

 

After reading your most recent post, i've realized that you and I have a completely different outlook on what a serious relationship should be made up of, and it's just something you and I will have to agree to disagree about.

 

I truly hope that maybe something i've said to you in this thread has stuck. And if not, I at least hope that i've given you the feeling that someone out there does care about your well being, and is there for you to vent to.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that anything else I have to say will be very supportive of your most current situation, and therefore I am going to keep my opinions to myself. I really do hope that everything works out for the best for you! I have faith that you'll make the right decisions.

 

Good luck!!!

 

I hope you know how much I appreciate how you've been here for me. I don't care whether we sometimes have different views: that is to be expected. I still want to hear what you have to offer. Of course much of what you have said resonates. But you know people on loveshack only what to hear the answer they want to hear. lol. It's like when we ask for an excuse to break NC. (speaking of which I just got a phone call followed by a long text from my ex on day 4 of NC. I didn't answer or respond.)

[GrayClouds]

Very interesting perspective. Not completely on point but deserving of serious consideration. Thanks for your thoughtful insight.

After said serious consideration, will you be divulging what your deliberations deduces or is that just a polite "piss off"?

[paperchase]

After said serious consideration, will you be divulging what your deliberations deduces or is that just a polite "piss off"?

 

No it wasn't meant that way. You said some things that resonated and I am a self reflective guy. The truth is, however, I'm also a survivor and I need to do what keeps me afloat even if it's not always healthy. I think the ability to be alone is important, but few people have it. And just because you aren't shacked up with a lover doesn't mean you can be alone. I know my ex is coping by being surrounded by her many friends and out having fun. I know her quiet moments are few and far between but that she does think about me sometimes when alone.

 

When I got divorced I felt the greatest sense of solitude and panic ever. My entire social order was based on my ex wife, her friends, her family, our life, our kids, our home, etc. And in a single day it was all taken away...detonated. I had nowhere to turn, no job, she emptied all the accounts and changed the locks. I was so isolated. Through the coping process I committed myself to being financially independent but I guess I never got around to learning emotional independence because even then I quickly found a lady friend or two to help restore my fragile ego and inspire.

 

As for the new girl, well I've stepped back a bit and not because I think I'm emotionally unavailable. I want a relationship. I'm open to the prospect of love. I've always been a hopeless romantic. I've mostly stepped back because I can tell she likes me a bit more than I like her and I don't want her to get hurt. I mean I like her a ton, but there are one or two quasi-shallow requirements I have that could stand in the way long term. I'm just being honest. I am also feeling like maybe i should date a few people for once instead of jumping from one relationship into another. It's just that dating several people is such hard work. And again, my inclination is to just be with one woman and so I'm fighting the urge to just say be my girl. Let's do it. I mean she's a real sweetheart and i could really benefit from being around someone who's nice to me.

Edited June 7, 2010 by paperchase

[GrayClouds]

So the question for you is are you really wanting a deeply committed realtionship based in love or just or just having someone around?

 

While we may have trained ourselves to ignore our issues, as realtionship develops it is almost impossible for other people too. If one truly desires a deep loving realtionship, it is based on intimacy.

 

But intimacy starts at home: within ourselves. It means getting to know ourselves more deeply, understand what drives us both good and bad. The greater we know ourselves, the better we understand, address and manage our issues, the less need there is to hold back, protect secrets, the more open and accepting of our faults we can be. This give us the ability to be much closer to someone else. The better we can love ourselves, the better we can love others.

 

Intimacy comes through giving up resistance, opening ourselves up to ourselves and each other. it does not mean we have to be perfect before we we look for real love, issues can not be addressed overnight, but simply working hard towards understanding and bettering ourselves, we become more open and able to share. As we do people get to know us for our real selves, and if they choose to be with us it will be for real reasons, not superficial ones, it greatly increasing the odds of a successful relationship and doubtfully the quality of it.

Edited June 8, 2010 by GrayClouds

[paperchase]

That sounds profound. I'll have to read it later. I'm having a terrible day. I was doing ok until I found out my ex is seeing someone else. Now I'm hurt and jealous. Being around other women doesn't help. I need to figure out why I'm so upset about losing someone who was clearly bad for me. I can't focus on anything but the failed relationship. Doesn't help that a few days ago she sent me a manipulative text talking about how what we had was the greatest but it wasn't healthy because I was her "god" and she didn't think she was anything without me. How ridiculous. She left me because she didn't love me enough, not because she loved me too much. She complained about lots of things but never that I was her god. She wrote about how I probably hate her and she hopes one day we can talk. I guess she needed to say something to assuage her guilt for leading me on while she found my replacement.

[GrayClouds]

I am really sorry for your pain. It is time to go NC complete to give you some space to heal. Your focused on her because it seems like quick fix to get over the pain. Though there is not quick fix sorry to say.

 

But it is obvious you are smart and deep down inside you know what to do. It is time to put you first. It is not something that will come easy for you but it is time. You been avoiding it for some time, using other people to distract you. Though this break-up is a sign that now it is time, now you are strong enough, now you are ready to do the hard work of bettering yourself, leaning to enjoy you, and feeling good even when you are alone.

 

It is hard, but by everything you have written, you will look back at this time and see it may have been one of the best things to happen for you.

 

Be kind to yourself, remember it is all about you.

[S.Tee]

Hi Paper,

 

Just been reading the whole issue here. I just wish that you just take a break, go for short holiday, get things calm coz you have been thinking a lot abot the past, your ex gf, your ex wife. It is good to recall your past if it helps you to motivate you, but if it only gets you worse, STOP.

 

Just do a short analysis of the real you & why the break-up happened, was it really because of you? If nothings obviously wrong, your ex should accept your character in beginning.

[paperchase]

Folks, this thing has spiraled out of control I'm obsessed every day. Can't sleep, not hungry, can't enjoy any of the things that make me happy. Been in contact, written a million text messages. Drafted dozen of (unsent) letters. I'm just a mess and I can't even have fun going out with other women because my mind is on her. She's exhausted and loves me but wants to move on. I really have been struggling because I didn't get closure...well not the type I needed. I don't know how to make my own closure n I go from being mad to hurt and mad is the only way I can seem to leave her alone. It's been basically a month and I'm no better. :-(

[GrayClouds]

This:

Been in contact

Equals This:

Folks, this thing has spiraled out of control I'm obsessed every day. Can't sleep, not hungry, can't enjoy any of the things that make me happy. , written a million text messages. -(

[paperchase]

I guess contact does equal madness but no contact can drive you crazy too. It can lead to obsessive letter writing to yourself, letting your imagination run wild and then yearning to satisfy you curiosity by stalker behavior. I saw a Dr. today who explained chemically what happens when someone experiences a major loss and perhaps a pharmacological solution might help. Certainly that's one way to calm the anxiety and obsessiveness...even the depression.

 

So today is Day 1 of NC. I'm not sure if I should start it today for two reasons. One, I thought a sweet and brief goodbye letter might be appropriate. That might give me my closure. Prior to now my correspondence has been mean spirited and intended to make her feel bad. That's not the way I want to be remembered even if she did hurt me terribly.

 

Two, I left open a date this month for us to meet at a special location of our should we really want to make this work. I don't expect her to show but if she does not that will have some finality as well. Plus, I don't want to preclude the meeting by sending a final goodbye letter.

 

Feel free to chime in.

[northstar1]

I'd avoid going on meds if possible. There are better solutions to post breakup depression, including a lot of exercise, eating well, not drinking etc.

 

Dude, I hate to be so blunt, you need to let this go. No emotional letters, no goodbye meetings, no open meetups. You are just prolonging the healing by hoping one of these romantic, grand gestures will bring her back. You're making this a bigger mess than it needs to be. Her actions have been clear, she doesn't want what you want.

 

Do a search on the boards of people who have sent a sweet, emotional goodbye letter. They send it under the guise of "saying goodbye and getting closure", when really they hope it sparks the ex to come back.

 

And read how in the majority of cases, if they send the letter, their ex either ignores it, or replies with neutrality. And the result? They spend that much more time battling both the sadness, but also anger at themselves for serving up their ego on a plate to their ex.

 

You need to find happiness within yourself on your own, not with the company of a girl. Plan a trip, take up some new hobbies, do something to start a new life for yourself without the burden of this Lolita.

[paperchase]

I've sent a bunch of letters and we've had a fair amount of texting. None of it provided closure like a meeting would. I didn't send them to get her back either...honest. i sent them to psyche myself up for the fact that it's over. This is day 4 of NC because I really can't contact her again after what happened last Thursday.

 

Long of the short is I went to court for a real estate matter with the ex wife n the judge forced me to sign some documents with federal marshals sequestering me under threat of imprisonment for contempt. I text the ex gf to tell her what was happening n basically to say don't let me spend the night in jail. Her reply was something to the effect of: "This is ridiculous. I want no part of this drama. You have family and u should call them. I don't believe u anyway." I wrote back expressing the seriousness of the situation. i was very scared. She ignored it.

 

Since then, no contact. Since then I came across something else that hurt too. I'm not even on face book but through a friends account I pulled her up. Her acct was locked except for profile pics. There were 132 which included both of her exs but not a single one of me. Dozens of her with my place in the backdrop. Pics of her on a vaca we went on together. Even a pic of a nice purse I bought her one Christmas but none of me. I so want to communicate my feelings about this but I know it's a weak move that could backfire so NC it is.

 

Love sucks. As for the other women in my life, I have told three that I'm not ready but two are willing to take the risk of being a rebound. they all want me to be exclusive and I'm just not in the mood. They are all coming on strong, buying me gym memberships, cooking, taking out to meals, wanting me to be their dates to parties. I wake up every morning at 4:30am with my ex on my mind n can't go back to sleep. During sex with others sometimes I think of her. Don't judge me because I don't want this to be the case.

[txsilkysmoothe]

I can't believe you've allowed a woman so young to lead you around by your nose. You are a father, for goodness sake, grow up and focus on your children's upbringing. What lesson are you teaching them by the manner in which you live your life and conduct your relationships?

 

You seem rather immature and superficial. It may explain why you are attracted to women who display these same characteristics. You value people based on looks and youth. You make a point of listing the things women buy and (I assume) you accept. Can you not see there is something wrong with a person who attempts to buy another's affection? Perhaps not, as it seems you were trying to buy your girlfriends affection as well.

 

You need to face the thing you fear the most - being ALONE.

Edited June 21, 2010 by txsilkysmoothe

[paperchase]

As for being led by my nose, love is blind. As for the rest, I don't try to buy anyone's affection although sometimes I show affection through gift giving. That's how I was raised. I'm generous. As for the women who buy me stuff, I don't ask for it but it's flattering because I'm used to doing the give giving. As for my kids, I'm a devoted father and my kids are well taken care of. Although admittedly when I'm down over love lost I don't see them as much because I can't put on the happy face. I'm not caught up in superficial stuff but I do value looks and sex for example. As for my ex, she had a very engaging way about her and makes me feel better than anyone when things are good. I'm sure we both were infatuated at some point. It's like a drug and apparently she was weaned herself off better than me. Tough love is cool but don't forget people are on here mourning.

[stillafool]

I don't think you should date until you start to get over this girl. You are just wasting your time as right now others will just remind you of what you miss about her.

[paperchase]

I don't think you should date until you start to get over this girl. You are just wasting your time as right now others will just remind you of what you miss about her.

 

You are probably right but it's getting better. This is day 8 of NC. Upon initial break-up I proposed we meet tonight at our special place if we were both committed to working things out. Given the events that have followed is fairly certain she won't show but I do remember the date.

 

Dating two women right now and they are both really into me and they both know how much I'm pining for my ex. I'm trying to figure out why women fall so hard for me so soon. I'm beginning to think this is a problem and sets the expectations too high which leads to issues down the road.

 

The thing that's so tough right now is the last exchange I had with my ex. I was in a very tough situation that threatened my well being and she completely turned her back on me and has not reached out since. Despite everything it really hurts to know that my welfare is no longer her concern. I thought we were best friends. As I re-evaluate the relationship I'm beginning to feel that things were not as they appeared. It's very hard to romanticize anything to be honest. 3 years of my life wasted.

[paperchase]

Well I'm down to seeing just one girl and I finally got, I hope, enough closure with my ex to move on. We had a conversation on Saturday. No contact was definitely not working for me in the absence of closure. I had such angst because things ended so suddenly with no dialogue to follow. Instead of telling her how much she hurt me, I told her how much I loved her and we talked about our feelings and why things didn't work. She was receptive to this even if I fed her ego. It was a 39 minute conversation and I feel at peace.

 

I still miss her, but the angst is gone which was really interfering with my productivity at work, my ability to pursue other women and my sleep. Oddly, later that evening my ex and I did a fair amount of texting as we separately watched a show we used to enjoy watching together. It was friendly and sometimes a tad flirtation. She picked up the phone twice to voice her opinions. Once she said she hoped she wasn't interrupting me or my date. I'm sure it won't be a repeat occurrence but the air felt cleared and for the first time in a month her defenses were clearly down.

 

The long of the short, however, is that she is trying to move on and she feels the only way she can do it is to go NC because of how strong her feelings are for me. Now that the air is clear, I believe (I hope) I can respect that and open up my heart to someone more suitable for me.

 

Usually breaking NC is a bad idea, but I think this was the exception to the rule.

[northstar1]

"I still miss her, but the angst is gone which was really interfering with my productivity at work, my ability to pursue other women and my sleep. Oddly, later that evening my ex and I did a fair amount of texting as we separately watched a show we used to enjoy watching together. It was friendly and sometimes a tad flirtation. She picked up the phone twice to voice her opinions. Once she said she hoped she wasn't interrupting me or my date. I'm sure it won't be a repeat occurrence but the air felt cleared and for the first time in a month her defenses were clearly down."

 

This is a slipperly slope. You had a conversation which you said was 'closure' and then you still are texting each other after it?

 

Closure is when you decide you've had enough and accept things and move on. You walk away and stop talking. Completely. That person becomes part of your past.

 

If you really want to move on, you have to stop being in touch with her, or she will just keep you on a string here.

[paperchase]

"I still miss her, but the angst is gone which was really interfering with my productivity at work, my ability to pursue other women and my sleep. Oddly, later that evening my ex and I did a fair amount of texting as we separately watched a show we used to enjoy watching together. It was friendly and sometimes a tad flirtation. She picked up the phone twice to voice her opinions. Once she said she hoped she wasn't interrupting me or my date. I'm sure it won't be a repeat occurrence but the air felt cleared and for the first time in a month her defenses were clearly down."

 

This is a slipperly slope. You had a conversation which you said was 'closure' and then you still are texting each other after it?

 

Closure is when you decide you've had enough and accept things and move on. You walk away and stop talking. Completely. That person becomes part of your past.

 

If you really want to move on, you have to stop being in touch with her, or she will just keep you on a string here.

 

You are sooooo right. So let me ask this question. Am I supposed to go complete NC now. It seems contrived after texting so much last night. We we broke up a year ago NC was much easier because she left me for another guy, I spilled my guts out asking for a reconciliation and she declined so there was nothing left to do.

 

This time was much harder because as far as I can tell she's not in another relationship but she broke up without much closure. Now I have the closure but I guess the door was left cracked open. Assuming I would entertain a relationship with her under the right circumstances I would think that limited contact is best. Allowing her to initiate but remaining detached and focused on moving forward. Having said that, I will leave it to the experts. What do you think I should do?

[northstar1]

Well, I would suggest complete NC to be honest. Otherwise, you'll end up in a habit of still texting and chatting, and you'll start to build expectations and possibly begin thinking she is having thoughts of reconnecting.

 

Look, I've been there. A few years a go, I dated a girl significantly younger, like you were. It crashed out like yours did and we still stayed in LC for a while. She'd text me, she'd call me. And I began to think that she truly was having doubts and was thinking of another go round.

 

However, what I realized is that our motives and feelings attached to the communication were totally different, mostly due to her age. She was fine with keeping in touch, because at that age things are carefree, transitory, feelings change quickly and there isn't much of an urgency to wanting to know where you stand. Things come and go.

While I was attaching significance to her contact, she thought nothing of it and could start and stop it with little concern. Because they are often already pre-occupied with something or someone new in their life.

 

Don't get caught up in this game of texting and contact, because you are more than likely investing much more mental energy and emotion over it than she is.

 

Cut off contact. Stop texting her entirely. For your own good.

[paperchase]

You are probably right about strict NC. I haven't really been missing her much lately. I do think about her sometimes but I have two new women who are treating me really well. One has done about everything you can perfectly. She's almost too good to be true. She's 26. The other is very beautiful and sweet. She's turning 22 this month. She's younger than I'd like and I don't see anything long term there. It would probably go down like with my ex. She'd be infatuated and then have a change of heart down the road.

 

Anyhow, I bumped into my ex again last weekend. Brief exchange. I kept it short and ended it. She was picking up birth control at the drugstore near my place. She was walking though the alley behind my building as I was moving in some furniture from storage. She said she almost didn't recognize me. Asked how I was doing. I said good. I mentioned some bumps she had on her chest neck area just to ask. She said I hurt her feelings and was mean. She's insecure but that wasn't my intention. I really didn't know what the bumps were from. She said heat rash. I said sorry and gave her a hug. That was it.

 

A few days ago she sent me a text about missing me and how each Thursday she things about going out like we used to but she can't and how tough it's been getting over me...tougher than she thought it would be...that she didn't know why she was telling me this..she just was. I wrote back "Thanks for sharing."

[paperchase]

At this point I think I'm posting to myself. lol. Anyway, there's an update. I got the 3am booty call this weekend. I answered bc I didn't know if everything was ok. She made meaningless chit chat and then began asking why I was whispering and whether I was alone. I refused to discuss and said we needed to talk later because I had to wake up early. She got upset, tho not too terribly, and said I don't know if we will talk again. Comments?