"Nice" girls, like Sandra Bullock....

[Lovelybird]

he is seriously perverted ! Good for his wife to leave him, he isn't attractive at all ! gross

Maybe I should give him a break, hope he really changes and does what he said he will do

[Taramere]

Nice try. You are the one who claims to have extensive knowledge of what goes on in the 'professional golfing circle', as well as minute details about the life and career of Tiger Wood's Swedish wife. And now you're trying to tell me that you don't spend hours pouring over gossip rags?

 

I got the specifics from wiki. I was curious after calizaggy's dismissive comments about her being a nanny, as I recall seeing in a newspaper (probably the Daily Mail, I must admit, as my boss loves it) that she's from a family of pretty high achievers.

 

As to the rest, well...I live close to the Scandinavian countries, and have close links there, so I'm fairly familiar with the cultural norms - as opposed to having cliched notions of "Eurotrash" passed onto me by my local media. Physically a high proportion of them are very attractive people. Doesn't automatically render them shallow gold-diggers, though. Psychologically most of the ones I've met tended to be practical and down to earth. Quite reserved. A comfortable standard of living is the norm. Nothing outrageously flashy. If that's a person's cultural background, and that's what they're comfortable with, someone like Tiger Woods will not necessarily be an attractive prospect.

 

Life in a goldfish bowl is not a price everyone would be willing, for the prize of having infinitely more than they actually need. Not everyone craves more money than they could spend in 10 lifetimes. If you're someone who does, however, that might be very difficult to believe. It might be less taxing to just assume "blonde, married to a sportsman = gold digging whore."

 

I don't need to read those silly mags to conclude that Tiger Woods is a dork. I've seen him interview on TV a couple of times. He is by far the most boring celebrity ever.

 

That's the spirit. Who needs to read, or travel or do anything to expand their horizons or challenge their own thinking? A bit of tv, a bit of time on the Internet...throw in a dash of cynicism and you know everything worth knowing about the world and the people in it.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Taramere

[calizaggy]

Here is my point..

 

It seems that men think more LOGICALLY, and women think with emotion..

 

The arguement the ladies have is "They were marrried! He should not cheat PERIOD!!!"

 

When women pick a mate, especially attractive women, they have ALL the options. These are not arranged marriages. Everyday since they turn 16 men and boys are hitting on them constantly.

 

So, women choose a man with traits they find important. If finding a monogomous man is high on the list of priorities, obviously certain men would be better to choose than a pro athlete, musician, pilot, politician, doctor, or a guy like Jesse James who is an alcoholic whom was married to a porn star, who constantly spoke of being around groupies/biker girls and going out to party and hook up with as many as possible..(I watched his first tv show, west coast choppers)

 

Now when women choose the above type of men, they are the envy of many other women, and usually they are given a great lifestyle.(Sandra was already rich, so not including her in this example, but she wanted the sexy younger bad ass guy).. The trade off is looking the other way on infidelity.

 

You ladies can continue to delude yourselfs and belief the above men "will never cheat because they said so", but if monogomy is so important, pick a man who will not have women throwing themselves at him day and night. DUH. But the trade off is you will not land that hot/bad ass/ rich alpha male and live more of an ordinary life.

 

If I marry a female who travels for work, drinks, parties, and views casual sex as lots of fun, but is also RICH, then I can decide if the trade off is worth it. Iif it is not worth it to me, I will marry a woman who holds sex to a very high regard, and will be with me every night, but will not earn much money..

 

How ridiculous would it be for a man to come here and complain that his wife cheated if she was the female form of jesse?

 

"Aww my wife cheated.. Yes she is an alcoholic covered in tattoes and she slept with hundreds of men before me..She is in the biker lifestyle. She views sex as fun for sport.. Her ex was a porn star..I leave her alone for months, but I just trust her . "

Edited March 22, 2010 by calizaggy

[xxoo]

If finding a monogomous man is high on the list of priorities, obviously certain men would be better to choose than a pro athlete, musician, pilot, politician, doctor, or a guy like Jesse James who is an alcoholic whom was married to a porn star, who constantly spoke of being around groupies/biker girls and going out to party and hook up with as many as possible..(I watched his first tv show, west coast choppers)

 

Was this really your point the whole time?

 

Because I generally agree with the above. When someone (ie: Jesse James) shows you who he is, believe him.

 

Still, it doesn't absolve the man's behavior. Why do these men marry? Why not just enjoy the wild single's scene? My guess is because the want the benefits of a loving, committed relationship. But then they screw it up by cheating. And the consequence is no more loving relationship. Logical

[Taramere]

Here is my point..

 

It seems that men think more LOGICALLY, and women think with emotion..

 

You dislike feminism, I believe. There are aspects of feminism I'm not crazy about. However, I read your posts and I start to see how and why society reached the stage it's at. There are people with such an entrenched contempt for femininity, and who are so blinkered in their notion of female inferiority, that there's really no option but to introduce statutory measures to prevent competent and talented women from being unreasonably obstructed by resentful men like yourself who refuse to accept that women have any abilities beyond childbirth and basic housekeeping.

 

If you were Sandra Bullock's mentor in life, she would not be sitting on the cash pile she has. She would not have had the career success she's had. She might well still be married to someone like Jesse James...but the difference would be that rather than pleading with her to take him back after the cheating incident, his attitude would likely be "I'm a man, I can do what I want...you just focus on getting the dinner on the table."

 

The more vulnerable and dependent a woman is, the more likely it is that she'll be treated in a contemptuous and/or abusive manner. That was one of the driving forces of feminism. You can sing your heart out for the next 20 years about the choices you think women should make....but it's patently obvious that female interests and female happiness are at the very bottom of your list of priorities. Logically, there's no reason for women to follow any advice you care to dispense, and I very much doubt that any woman ever will.

[Woggle]

That still does not excuse him plus not all biker types are unfaithful cheaters. I do hope you are wrong about the assumption that women would be singing a different tune if the genders were reversed. Please tell me he is wrong ladies.

[Taramere]

That still does not excuse him plus not all biker types are unfaithful cheaters. I do hope you are wrong about the assumption that women would be singing a different tune if the genders were reversed. Please tell me he is wrong ladies.

 

I can't talk for anyone else here, but personally I tend don't make judgements about people according to a checklist of "dealbreakers."

There are people I like, and people I don't like...but I do believe all human beings have value and some kind of story to tell. The notion of dismissing someone as a human being because they've got a few tattoos, or because they struggled with an alcohol problem at some point - or whatever else about them is supposed to constitute a "dealbreaker" is pretty alien to me.

 

Ultimately, I would prefer to spend my time around people who have been tested a bit by life. They're usually more interesting and more broad minded - and often quite a bit more caring than the average person. So no. If I heard about a guy being cheated on by his tattooed and alcoholic ex wife, I guess one of my first thoughts would be that she'd let him and herself down and that it was very sad for both.

[Nikki Sahagin]

I find this whole thread really deadening. I have never trusted men. I have close male friends and family members whom I love, care for, respect and adore deeply but I will never trust a man in a sexual or intimate context. In a relationship, I will never trust. This is a CHOICE I make for my own protection. I am an idealist, I am romantic and I am devoted by nature. I realise the majority of men AREN'T and although I get caught up in hopes and ideals and dreams of a man that IS, it isn't likely. All the men i've met that have been are gay and my ex WAS but as was mentioned here, turned into a 'stud' as soon as he got some attention.

 

I think I am going to make the conscious choice to get my intimacy and love and that extra kick through me, friends, family, animals, NOT from a relationship. I just don't believe in it as much as i'd like to. This thread has opened my eyes as much as my own experiences, the experiences of friends. Its truly sad. It really is.

 

However I think ANYONE that cheats male or female is selfish and cruel. If you don't believe in monogamy and fidelity you can be single or be with people with the same attitude but to be with someone who loves you and cares for you and to hurt them for something as trivial as sex (and it is) is really tragic. Sex is amazing and great but to throw something as rare, special and beautiful as love away...for sex? Only when people lose that selfless, patient love that was by their side do they sometimes realise how it wasn't worth it...but of course many never will.

 

The only way to 'eliminate' cheating, is for men and women to not tolerate it. Yes...for every man or women that kicks out a cheating partner, there will be countless others lined up ready to take their abuse, but it doesn't need to be you. If you meet 1000 guys who think they have a right to cheat or will, then surely it is better to be alone and strong and happy, than to be constantly worried, constantly hurting, constantly afraid...of mans 'DNA'. Personally i'd rather self-service for the rest of my life than he hurt.

[Jersey Shortie]

Here is my point..

 

It seems that men think more LOGICALLY, and women think with emotion..

 

 

Yeah, that's exactly what he was doing when he was cheating on his wife and kids. He was thinking "logically". No offense but men do not think any more "logically" then women. They just sometimes come from a different place then women do. Do not mistake that for more logical. Any man that was thinking logically wouldn't cheat.

 

You ladies can continue to delude yourselfs and belief the above men "will never cheat because they said so", but if monogomy is so important, pick a man who will not have women throwing themselves at him day and night.

 

Do you understand that men, people in general, have the ability to not only make but be held accountable for their choices? You are holding up the other party for the choices of another.

 

You're giving nothing but 'But, but buts...." about why it's okay for men to cheat. And your blaming a woman for it. A grown adult man that *CHOOSES* to marry a woman makes a promise. He took the vow. He made the choice. He didn't have to. He could have gone on in his life not committing to anyone and sleeping around. That;s all the "logic" that's needed here. Not your mixed up woman hating bs on why it's okay for men to cheat because women are awful human beings who don't respect sex anymore.

 

 

...I will marry a woman who holds sex to a very high regard, and will be with me every night, but will not earn much money..

 

No one cares who you marry as long as it's not them.

 

How ridiculous would it be for a man to come here and complain that his wife cheated if she was the female form of jesse?

 

If she made the promise to be monogmous, totally not ridiculous.

 

 

You can sing your heart out for the next 20 years about the choices you think women should make....but it's patently obvious that female interests and female happiness are at the very bottom of your list of priorities.

 

 

Excellently said.

[calizaggy]

The more vulnerable and dependent a woman is, the more likely it is that she'll be treated in a contemptuous and/or abusive manner. That was one of the driving forces of feminism. .

 

 

Logically this should make sense, but in real life I have found the opposite to be true..(Feminism I believe was created by larger forces than everyday women anyway, but that's another thread)

 

In societies where women have fewer career options, I have found that women stress much much more how a guy treats them when making a decision to be with them.. You may say "Oh he is dating an Asian/South American because he wants a doormat, etc etc".. But in reality, those women are far more demanding when it comes to things like respect, being a gentleman, etc.

 

I have found that the "feminist" in a way has become more manly, and also puts up with FAR MORE CRAP, no matter how many more perceived options they have. I know many women in abusive type relationships that CHOOSE to be in them.. They can walk away at any time.

 

Sandra has a big pile of cash, is 45, has a cheating hubby, and will never have kids.. I do not think most stay at home moms whom have a loving husband, and children they love will want to trade places with her..I have no idea how truly happy/fulfilled as a female she is. I am willing to bet anything my sister is far more fulfilled waking up every morning and taking care of her son that she loves with all of her heart, than Sandra is travelling around and making movies.

 

I also believe women derive far more fullfillment from serving a purpose and receiving love for her actions, than going to a job and receiving money.

Edited March 22, 2010 by calizaggy

[carhill]

I also believe women derive far more fulfillment from serving a purpose and receiving love for her actions, than going to a job and receiving money.

 

Obviously YMMV, but looking at that picture of Sandra and that little girl at LAX, I gotta think this was a factor. I mean, just look at the two of them. No big movie star there. What was Jesse thinking?

[Taramere]

I have found that the "feminist" in a way has become more manly, and also puts up with FAR MORE CRAP, no matter how many more perceived options they have. I know many women in abusive type relationships that CHOOSE to be in them.. They can walk away at any time.

 

I think there are undoubtedly women who are feminists, and who also put up with a lot of crap. I have my doubts, for instance, about the pro-porn feminist movement which encourages women to objectify their own bodies and allow God knows what to be done to them in the name of feeling liberated. When a lot of it is quite patently the very opposite of being liberated.

 

I suspect a lot of that is related to female guilt...and perhaps, skewed notions of what it means to be feminine. "I'm sorry I'm the CEO of a blue chip company, but if it makes any difference - I'm more than willing to be handcuffed and beaten black and blue to show that I'm a real woman in the bedroom."

 

I feel the same way about these women you're talking about, who "demand" a certain type of treatment from men. I don't relate to them any more than I relate to the poor bound and gagged creature getting beaten black and blue in someone's basement. If I'm considerate and kind to someone, I expect a similar level of treatment back. If they abuse it, or regard me as a pushover, I'll discuss that with them and walk away if they don't alter their behaviour.

 

As for going around "demanding" to be treated as a creature unlike any other (a la The Rules). No. I find women like that annoying, childish and pretty dull-minded. I wouldn't model myself on them - regardless of how attractive men think that kind of behaviour might be. Most men I know are equally contemptuous of that contrived "princess who gets bruised by the pea if she doesn't sleep on 20 mattresses" attitude.

[calizaggy]

Obviously YMMV, but looking at that picture of Sandra and that little girl at LAX, I gotta think this was a factor. I mean, just look at the two of them. No big movie star there. What was Jesse thinking?

 

 

Yeah, but at the same time Sandra would rather be gone for months filming a movie than seeing her step kids every day..

 

Another observation I can make is this..

 

I can divide my male freinds/acquantences into 2 camps..Those who would never be faithful in a million years, and those whom are most likely to be faithful.

 

The former group are almost all married.. They cheated before the marriage in all cases, often times the women knew, and still married them. They continue to cheat.

 

The latter group typically are not married, and women are not attracted to them for their solid stance against cheating or "better character and ethics" They might be too nice, or too boring, or not enough of a prize, etc.

 

Often times when women today seek a mate, they look at earning potential, career, height, what their freinds will think, what he drives, etc, and character is far down the list.. Even if he has bad character and it is obvious to anyone with eyes or an ounce of common sense, the women forgive them, try to change them, or twist bad character into good character in their own minds..

[xxoo]

That still does not excuse him plus not all biker types are unfaithful cheaters. I do hope you are wrong about the assumption that women would be singing a different tune if the genders were reversed. Please tell me he is wrong ladies.

 

He is wrong.

 

If the situation were reversed, my response would be the same. The cheater is in the wrong.

 

But I can also acknowledge that Sandra probably believed what she wanted to believe about Jesse (what he says), rather than look at who Jesse really is (what he does). It doesn't make it her fault that he cheated, though. He married and made promised of his own free will.

[carhill]

Yeah, but at the same time Sandra would rather be gone for months filming a movie than seeing her step kids every day..

 

Like I mentioned upthread, I don't follow celebs, but that photograph, at an airport, with the girl and Jesse, indicates to me that they were going somewhere or came from somewhere. It's entirely possible that contact was/is far more consistent than is generally perceived. Sandra is in her mid-40's and doesn't have any children biologically. That, to some, might indicate selfishness, but that picture, and my personal experiences with infertility, indicate that other issues might be at work. I'm not getting a selfish aura from that image.

 

Whether Sandra chooses to divorce over this incident will be telling. I personally think she won't. We'll see.

[MadMission]

My best friend is a cop...and has been for 20 years.

The bulk of her calls...probably 70%...are domestics.

And, the domestic disturbances are quite often A driven.

This is what she has told me...what she has observed over the years...and what she sees time and time again:

 

It's always the 'nice' one who is the BS.

The WS typically proves himself to be an ass.

 

She gets to know each of them from the initial response to the call...to much discussion with the couple together and then individually...and then even through follow-up checks with the couple or repeated domestic calls to the same residence. Her conclusion regarding couples/relationships, "it's the nice ones who get cheated on.'

That's been her observation over the years.

[kevinconner]

I think the whole thing is just awesome. Women who are capable of such power can certainly hit it when they want, but its the part about taming a wild boy that is their ultimate challenge.

 

She did it all. Career, life, awards. But in the end, the one thing she couldn't do is keep her man happy at home. By thrusting him into a shadow by her own design, she basically said I am more important than you. She married below her class. She would have been better off with a man who has as much or equal power.

 

The only way Jesse could get his balls back by his own wiring was to find this kind of inked up chick and become what he is inside. In the end, Sandra couldn't tame him and he couldn't stand living under her shadow.

[calizaggy]

He is wrong.

 

If the situation were reversed, my response would be the same. The cheater is in the wrong.

 

But I can also acknowledge that Sandra probably believed what she wanted to believe about Jesse (what he says), rather than look at who Jesse really is (what he does). It doesn't make it her fault that he cheated, though. He married and made promised of his own free will.

 

 

This thread makes it even more apparent to me that women never want to have any accountability for their decisions..

 

Let's pretend OJ is still on the market and not in prison.. Let's say a woman meets him , dates him, then is physically abused.. Obviously she is an idiot, even if OJ said beforehand "I will not abuse you."

 

So, if Sandra chooses a character like Jesse James,(let's be honest, she has her choice of men) why is she not accountable? Nothing about him screams "monogamy", and you can even tell by the way he cheated (inviting a girl over off internet immediately, sleeping with her without a condom within 2 hours), what you see with him, is what you get.

[grogster]

Logically this should make sense, but in real life I have found the opposite to be true..(Feminism I believe was created by larger forces than everyday women anyway, but that's another thread)

 

There's no logic/real life distinction, here. People who are dependent on others, whether, politically, economically or emotionally, are more likely to be abused and exploited than their independent, self-sufficient counterparts. That's a self-evident fact of "real life" that those of us not wearing ideolgical blinders can clearly see. As for those mysterious and nefarious "larger forces" that "created" feminism, that's simply the basic human need for self-respect, self-protection and self-determination.

 

 

 

 

 

I also believe women derive far more fullfillment from serving a purpose and receiving love for her actions, than going to a job and receiving money.[/

 

So you know what women really want: to be passive vessels where true fulfillment can only occur by serving their men and, in exchange, receiving love.

 

Caliziggy, you're why feminism is necessary. Feminism could not exist without you.

[Twenty-ten]

As for going around "demanding" to be treated as a creature unlike any other (a la The Rules). No. I find women like that annoying, childish and pretty dull-minded. I wouldn't model myself on them - regardless of how attractive men think that kind of behaviour might be. Most men I know are equally contemptuous of that contrived "princess who gets bruised by the pea if she doesn't sleep on 20 mattresses" attitude.

 

I was going to make the exact same comment about women who have to "demand" to be treated well. I figured I wouldn't bother with his ridiculous comments anymore. But I have to say this:

 

I lived in South America for a few years, I have been to Brazil and traveled extensively through the continent. Let me tell you a little something about Brazil. Brazil is is a very poor country, the majority of women there are very poor, they dress badly and wear tacky make-up. The dental floss bikini is really the only saving grace for why men love the beaches of Rio, but the running joke in South America among men is that Brazilian women tend to look great from the back on the beach and then once you catch up to them and they turn around, you are spooked for life.

 

The real women of Brazil do not resemble anything close to the elite top models they export to North America and Europe. People base their romanticized views based on that But if you actually got here you will see that it is a complete misrepresentation of what the average woman really looks like.

 

Brazil is also the land of the trannies but most importantly Brazil is grossly misogynistic as a culture. It is no wonder the poor women there have to demand to be treated with any respect, they simply do not exist other than to make babies.

 

Any woman (or person for that matter) who has to "demand" anything is already on an inferior playing field.

 

 

He could not have chosen a more accurate word to depict how he sees his place as a man, and how he sees the woman's place. 'Nough said.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Twenty-ten

[threebyfate]

Here is my point..

 

It seems that men think more LOGICALLY, and women think with emotion..

Then why does most of your rationale surround purely made up data points that are sourced from misogyny, misandry and personal experiences with an older woman?

 

As well, your point has meandered all over the map, since the beginning of this thread. Your original point was that all men are liars and cheaters so women should just expect it to happen, unless they cleave to their man 24/7, so he doesn't have a moment to cheat.

 

The arguement the ladies have is "They were marrried! He should not cheat PERIOD!!!"

I stand firm on this. No one deserves to be cheated on.

 

When women pick a mate, especially attractive women, they have ALL the options. These are not arranged marriages. Everyday since they turn 16 men and boys are hitting on them constantly.

 

So, women choose a man with traits they find important. If finding a monogomous man is high on the list of priorities, obviously certain men would be better to choose than a pro athlete, musician, pilot, politician, doctor, or a guy like Jesse James who is an alcoholic whom was married to a porn star, who constantly spoke of being around groupies/biker girls and going out to party and hook up with as many as possible..(I watched his first tv show, west coast choppers)

I for one, believe that everyone, Sandra included, is responsible for who they choose to partner with. But that doesn't mean anyone deserves to be cheated. Your argument is illogical. You either hold both parties to adulthood and responsibilities, or you hold neither. You cannot say that Sandra is responsible for her choice in men and then say that Jesse isn't responsible for cheating.

Now when women choose the above type of men, they are the envy of many other women, and usually they are given a great lifestyle.(Sandra was already rich, so not including her in this example, but she wanted the sexy younger bad ass guy).. The trade off is looking the other way on infidelity.

Who would envy Sandra for her choice of Jesse James? The guy's blatantly a pig and just about every woman in this thread has said so.

You ladies can continue to delude yourselfs and belief the above men "will never cheat because they said so", but if monogomy is so important, pick a man who will not have women throwing themselves at him day and night. DUH. But the trade off is you will not land that hot/bad ass/ rich alpha male and live more of an ordinary life.

Jesse James isn't hot. He's a pig.

 

Oh, now here comes the nice guy anthem. Do you realize how many ugly, no option, no success, no alphaness, no bad-assness people cheat?

If I marry a female who travels for work, drinks, parties, and views casual sex as lots of fun, but is also RICH, then I can decide if the trade off is worth it. Iif it is not worth it to me, I will marry a woman who holds sex to a very high regard, and will be with me every night, but will not earn much money..

Assumptive once more. Why are you assuming that money and monogamy, can't go hand in glove? They can and do, reliant on individual.

How ridiculous would it be for a man to come here and complain that his wife cheated if she was the female form of jesse?

 

"Aww my wife cheated.. Yes she is an alcoholic covered in tattoes and she slept with hundreds of men before me..She is in the biker lifestyle. She views sex as fun for sport.. Her ex was a porn star..I leave her alone for months, but I just trust her . "

I hold EVERYONE responsible for their choice of partner but stand firm that no one deserves to be cheated on.

[calizaggy]

 

 

So you know what women really want: to be passive vessels where true fulfillment can only occur by serving their men and, in exchange, receiving love.

 

Caliziggy, you're why feminism is necessary. Feminism could not exist without you.

 

 

Yes, typically women still want a man to lead, regardless of their income. Even if they make a decent income, they want the man to make a larger one.. And yes, women need love above all to reach true fullfillment..

 

Only naieve people think they will marry someone and then change them into something else. "Oh Oj seemed so nice.. I can't believe he abused me"."Oh that rock star that bedded 3000 women cheated! I thought he would change"

 

Ladies, as long as you go after the guys most likely to cheat, you will continue to get cheated on. Choice is yours. Just don't cry about it when it happens.

 

I mean is Sandra that dumb? "I will marry Jesse James, and over night he will turn into a good boy, and I am free to leave for months while he waits by the phone for my call".. hahaha.. Good for Jesse.. You live life the way you want to, not how some self absorbed middle aged actress in love with her career tells you too.

[sweetjasmine]

Ladies, as long as you go after the guys most likely to cheat, you will continue to get cheated on. Choice is yours. Just don't cry about it when it happens.

 

I thought you said all men cheat.

 

So it's every woman's fault that she's gotten cheated on. She should've never gotten into a monogamous relationship with a man in the first place.

[xxoo]

So, if Sandra chooses a character like Jesse James,(let's be honest, she has her choice of men) why is she not accountable? .

 

Cali, I said she is responsible for her choice. But that is all she is responsible for: she picked a loser.

 

He is responsible for cheating, breaking up the family, losing the woman he might have truly loved, and maybe screwing up he child custody situation.

 

None of that is Sandra's fault. He would have done that no matter who his wife is. It is only Sandra's fault that she got drug into his screwed up life.

[Twenty-ten]

She did it all. Career, life, awards. But in the end, the one thing she couldn't do is keep her man happy at home. By thrusting him into a shadow by her own design, she basically said I am more important than you. She married below her class. She would have been better off with a man who has as much or equal power.

 

Oh for Pete's sake, some of you make it sound like she had some Machiavellian scheme to follow a career - which was already flourishing before he came into the picture I might add- to emasculate a man and ruin a marriage.

 

What's wrong with some of you people!?!? If he married an actor what did he expect a macrame expert who sits on a rocking chair weaving all day?

 

You don't marry a pilot and expect him not to fly to other countries without you and then cheat on them with the pretext that "he is away too often"

 

Adults make conscious decisions when choosing a life partnership and either accept a partner's career, or not. He accepted it and then if he did not, he should have left not get a mistress.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Twenty-ten