"Nice" girls, like Sandra Bullock....

[calizaggy]

Look at some heroes of our time.. Bill Clinton, MLK, JFK, etc.. Were they "monogamous"? Far from it.. Does it matter? Of course not.. History does not judge men on how many women they collect as play things.. It is largely irrelevant.

[xxoo]

I never said any of those things by themselves.. Of course all men do not cheat, as all men do not have the option..

 

But most men have the option. Even geeky accountant types (or whatever...trying to use an example brought up earlier as "less likely to cheat") works with geeky accountant ladies

 

Still, not all men with options cheat. True fact.

[CLC2008]

Look at some heroes of our time.. Bill Clinton, MLK, JFK, etc.. Were they "monogamous"? Far from it.. Does it matter? Of course not.. History does not judge men on how many women they collect as play things.. It is largely irrelevant.

 

The only thing you've done here is justify and rationalize cheating.

 

The fact that you side with a "cheater" versus the victim, is honestly disturbing...

 

But if you want to idolize cheaters as "heros", then knock yourself out.

 

I didn't vote for Clinton anyway

[Mme. Chaucer]

I never said any of those things by themselves.. Of course all men do not cheat, as all men do not have the option..

 

When I read the posts of this asshat as a whole body of work, as it were, I think I am seeing a depiction of a sociopath.

 

Dear calizaggy:

 

Just because a human being has "opportunities" and "biological desires" to do something does not mean that he or she is bound to do it. Why just the other day I had a powerful biological desire to eat a sandwich. I walked right by them at the market without grabbing one and scarfing it down. I am pretty sure that you are one of those strange and lonely individuals who cannot grasp this concept (i.e. a sociopath), but many of us, men and women alike, are CHOOSING to behave a certain way because it enhances and elevates our lives and our selves MORE than to simply be a grunting slave to our biological or other passing urges and whims does.

 

Yes! It really is true!

[Taramere]

When I read the posts of this asshat as a whole body of work, as it were, I think I am seeing a depiction of a sociopath.

 

I'm glad someone finally said it.

 

Ever read Without Conscience by Robert Hare? The many anecdotes of psychopaths who pity or aggrandise themselves to ridiculous extremes, at the same time as they blame their victims who they will insist to the death brought misfortune on themselves.

 

Perhaps, with reference to the other "sorry" thread (by Johan), all these celebs are doing when they make public apologies for cheating on their spouses is stating "look - I do have a conscience. I can experience guilt and remorse when I'm faced head-on with the pain my actions inflict on others. I'm not a sociopath."

[grogster]

Labels like "sociopath" (a "sinner" in a judeo-christian paradigm) shed more heat than light.

 

While much of what Cali says is objectionable (his views on women are especially obnoxious), his observation that many (not all) husbands are as faithful as their options accords with my experience, observations and knowledge. That view is, in fact, unremarkable.

 

And, by the way, a "sandwich" is not a lover.

Edited March 23, 2010 by grogster

[Taramere]

Labels like "sociopath" (a "sinner" in a judeo-christian paradigm) shed more heat than light.

 

While much of what Cali says is objectionable (his views on women are especially obnoxious), his observation that many (not all) husbands are as faithful as their options accords with my experience, observations and knowledge. That observation is, in fact, unremarkable.

 

And, by the way, a "sandwich" is not a lover.

 

Those observations - that a lot of people do cheat - are not the sociopathic element of his posts, as far as I'm concerned. The sociopathic element lies in

 

1. His evident pleasure in the notion of an older woman being cheated on

2. His determination to place all blame on the victim.

3. More than the above two (which might simply be connected to bitterness resulting from a disappointment in love).....lack of empathy for those who have been badly hurt by someone cheating on them. The failure to see why a man who cheats on his wife should feel any remorse for the pain he's caused.

 

The fact that he tries to clothe it all in this tone of clinical objectivity and rationalise it with vague references to "studies" and "statistics" makes not a jot of difference. The schadenfreude and desire to promote misery and gloom glimmers out of every single post.

 

That, rather than the specifics of what he is saying, is what makes this poster so very repellent.

[calizaggy]

I'm glad someone finally said it.

 

Ever read Without Conscience by Robert Hare? The many anecdotes of psychopaths who pity or aggrandise themselves to ridiculous extremes, at the same time as they blame their victims who they will insist to the death brought misfortune on themselves.

 

Perhaps, with reference to the other "sorry" thread (by Johan), all these celebs are doing when they make public apologies for cheating on their spouses is stating "look - I do have a conscience. I can experience guilt and remorse when I'm faced head-on with the pain my actions inflict on others. I'm not a sociopath."

 

Psychopaths? Sociopaths? LOL

 

Perhaps Sandra and him had more of an open relationship, but now are she is embarassed that the media found out.. The same with Elin.. Tiger had how many mistresses? What happened to female intuition?

 

Anyway, I have said repeatedly women should have fewer partners, and hold sex to a higher regard..When I have said this, I am old fashioned, behind the times, a misogynist etc..

 

On one hand women are applauding other women for being easy, then being mad at men whom are tempted and given into tempation.. You cannot have everything the way you want it. Who are these men cheating with? Easy sluts..

 

The easier women become, the more men will cheat..Instead of ONLY blaming men, perhaps modern women should be blamed as well?

 

Then to top it off, women are still lined up for and in love with the cheaters... So logically it makes me think women do not really view what they did as all that horrible..If women marry a known cheater, then why do they expect different treatment?

[CrissyQ]

It may seem like all men cheat and yes alot of guys do cheat,yes guys see women everyday and say to themselves "i would fu.k her"and sure they think about sex alot! I have come across alot of guys in my line of work who said they have never cheated and do not plan on cheating and look very uncomfotable at the club.

 

IMO I think it is about even women cheat infact alot of women cheat we just know how to keep secrets better,do you have any idea how many women i work with that are in relationships long term dating or married and they cheat everyday!What is most shocking is half of those women their boyfriends or husbands do not even have a clue of where they really work.

[xxoo]

While much of what Cali says is objectionable (his views on women are especially obnoxious), his observation that many (not all) husbands are as faithful as their options accords with my experience, observations and knowledge. That view is, in fact, unremarkable.

 

I wonder how much this depends on the circles people run in.

 

Questions for the guys:

What is the story with men (married, unmarried) who openly abhor cheating? Who get pissed at their friends when they do it? Who dish to the women in the circle about it, with disgust?

 

Cause I seem to know a lot of these men

[calizaggy]

I wonder how much this depends on the circles people run in.

 

Questions for the guys:

What is the story with men (married, unmarried) who openly abhor cheating? Who get pissed at their friends when they do it? Who dish to the women in the circle about it, with disgust?

 

Cause I seem to know a lot of these men

 

 

As a story, I went out in the past with a coworker and his step son to watch a soccer game during the day.. He is 39, step son is 22..

 

Drunk girl comes over, and my coworker is a big talker.. Within 5 minutes they are kissing.. I was surprised as this is right in front of his wifes son..He had absolutely NO reaction, and did not see anything wrong at all, even though his MOM was being cheated on..

 

Another acquaintence of mine was married.. As soon as his wife went out of town, he invited a different girl over to their home.. Not only that, he took her out with his huge crowd of friends, and not one man had any single objection or question as to why she is there instead of his wife..Some guys commented that she is pretty hot.. but nobody said "hey where is your wife, why are you cheating".. Do you women understand men at all?

 

 

Do you really think guys HATE other guys who cheat? Do you women believe everything a guy tells you? The only ones that do usually have their own ulterior motives, or are in love with the woman who is being cheated on or wish it was themselves sleeping with both the women..

 

You ladies can work, be sexually free, etc, but you cannot change men's views on sex.. Most of the time they think the "cheater" is just lucky, as opposed to having deep resentment for him..

[xxoo]

Ok, here's an example of the kind of guy I know:

 

A doctor, was a player in his college days school. Married the "perfect" sweet girl. Remained a player. Cheated, got caught, lost and humiliated the wife. Lost his wife's family--which had become his family in extension. Luckily, no kids.

 

This is about where I met him...Mid 30s, in a place of deep, deep guilt. The affair didn't survive long after the divorce. He dated, but mostly casually--and only occasionally goes to bed with a casual date (when he did, I heard about it! we dished sex all the time. It was our fav subject:p). Knows I am married, and never hits on me (although the attraction is obvious to others....I worked for him, so we saw each other daily). This is a guy who deeply abhors cheating, and is disgusted by anyone who does it--including his past behavior. He even gets pissed off about movies that glorify cheating.

 

Finally meets and marries a new woman. Has kids. Moves on.

 

Now, yes, this is a guy who is always looking at other women. This is a guy with options. But I know he will not cheat again. He wouldn't be able to live with himself if he messed up this marriage--esp after having kids.

 

I think this is part of growing up for a lot of people. The way you think about cheating in your 20s/30s might not be how you think about it forever. Some never change, true, but I don't think they are the majority at all. But, like I said...it might depend on your circle. I've definitely been around circles that had a lot of cheating, and didn't stick around those people long.

[calizaggy]

This is about where I met him...Mid 30s, in a place of deep, deep guilt. The affair didn't survive long after the divorce. He dated, but mostly casually--and only occasionally goes to bed with a casual date (when he did, I heard about it! we dished sex all the time. It was our fav subject:p). Knows I am married, and never hits on me (although the attraction is obvious to others....I worked for him, so we saw each other daily). .

 

 

See, I think it is innappropriate for a man to be telling a married woman about his sex life, and discussing sex all the time..Anyway,

 

A question I have is. (Assuming this man will never cheat again, which I seriously doubt no matter what he says) Is he not cheating because of purely ethical reasons? As in cheating is just wrong.. Or because he does not want to risk his wife finding out and wrecking his married life with kids?

 

It seems like the latter. And if that is the case, he will do it again.. And I had a friend who is a nurse, and she said 99% of doctors cheat as all the young nurses throw themselves at the doctors..

[xxoo]

It is the ethics. When he saw, first hand, the damage cheating did to someone he truly loved, he had a shift in thinking and became very ethically against cheating.

 

If it were just the risk of getting caught and him having consequences, he would have made a move on me. Like I said, the attraction was obvious to everyone else. But he didn't because I was married, and it would have been unethical.

[xxoo]

And Cali, I've been the "safe" married woman that men come to about their sex lives my entire adult life. I've had several male friends like that (all guys my husband knows well). I hear all kinds of stuff. I hear about cheating, struggle to avoid cheating, and disgust at cheating. I do believe these particular men when they tell me stuff.

[grogster]

Those observations - that a lot of people do cheat - are not the sociopathic element of his posts, as far as I'm concerned. The sociopathic element lies in

 

1. His evident pleasure in the notion of an older woman being cheated on

2. His determination to place all blame on the victim.

3. More than the above two (which might simply be connected to bitterness resulting from a disappointment in love).....lack of empathy for those who have been badly hurt by someone cheating on them. The failure to see why a man who cheats on his wife should feel any remorse for the pain he's caused.

 

The fact that he tries to clothe it all in this tone of clinical objectivity and rationalise it with vague references to "studies" and "statistics" makes not a jot of difference. The schadenfreude and desire to promote misery and gloom glimmers out of every single post.

 

That, rather than the specifics of what he is saying, is what makes this poster so very repellent.

 

 

Understood. No disagreement, here.

[Twenty-ten]

goes out to calizaggy.

[xxoo]

Another acquaintence of mine was married.. As soon as his wife went out of town, he invited a different girl over to their home.. Not only that, he took her out with his huge crowd of friends, and not one man had any single objection or question as to why she is there instead of his wife..Some guys commented that she is pretty hot.. but nobody said "hey where is your wife, why are you cheating".. Do you women understand men at all?

.

 

Forgot to add....yes, I've absolutely known men like this. Some have been blatant enough to do it right in front of me. Others have done this kind of thing in front of my husband--who then can't wait to get home and dish to me all about it. Does that suprise you?

 

In both cases, after being and and and sometimes , we distance ourselves from those people.

 

The worst offender was a guy we knew in our 20s. He is now in jail for sexual assault, committed when he was married with kids. We'd distanced ourselves years back, thank goodness.

[calizaggy]

Forgot to add....yes, I've absolutely known men like this. Some have been blatant enough to do it right in front of me. Others have done this kind of thing in front of my husband--who then can't wait to get home and dish to me all about it. Does that suprise you?

 

In both cases, after being and and and sometimes , we distance ourselves from those people.

 

The worst offender was a guy we knew in our 20s. He is now in jail for sexual assault, committed when he was married with kids. We'd distanced ourselves years back, thank goodness.

 

 

LOOVE the movie clip..

 

But no this does not surprise me at all.. Reporting another man's cheating makes himself look better to you.. And I seriously doubt your husband thinks "Wow, Joe cheated, he is such a horrible man.. I need to distance myself from him"

 

Yeah i get it.. Stating that men cheat and WHY is repellent.. Ok, should I just fall into line.. "Cheating=bad, psychopath, sociopath, inexcusable, unnatural"

[CrissyQ]

As a story, I went out in the past with a coworker and his step son to watch a soccer game during the day.. He is 39, step son is 22..

 

Drunk girl comes over, and my coworker is a big talker.. Within 5 minutes they are kissing.. I was surprised as this is right in front of his wifes son..He had absolutely NO reaction, and did not see anything wrong at all, even though his MOM was being cheated on..

 

Another acquaintence of mine was married.. As soon as his wife went out of town, he invited a different girl over to their home.. Not only that, he took her out with his huge crowd of friends, and not one man had any single objection or question as to why she is there instead of his wife..Some guys commented that she is pretty hot.. but nobody said "hey where is your wife, why are you cheating".. Do you women understand men at all?

 

 

Do you really think guys HATE other guys who cheat? Do you women believe everything a guy tells you? The only ones that do usually have their own ulterior motives, or are in love with the woman who is being cheated on or wish it was themselves sleeping with both the women..

 

You ladies can work, be sexually free, etc, but you cannot change men's views on sex.. Most of the time they think the "cheater" is just lucky, as opposed to having deep resentment for him..

 

 

Thats the thing ALOT of women believe all the BS guys tell them,women want to believe they know men and love to answer for them and think they know it all about them.

 

Alot of men as well fall for all the BS women tell them,but they don't try and answer for women and pretend to know everything about them.

 

I'm a dancer and guys will come in groups and trust me they encourage each other to do things,i never once heard a guy say "don't do it you're married,or you have a girlfriend"instead they are paying for their friends to get lap dances or "other things" I will admit men are a huge influence on each other if they are with a buddy who doesn't want a lap dance from a girl the other guys will say "aww he's whooped,he can't do nothing cuz his girlfriend is gonna spank him"

 

I have been in this line of work since i was 17 and yes alot of guys are dogs trust me i have seen it all,but i have also seen guys there not interested or feeling bad because they have a wife or girlfriend and they are only there because it's "guys night out" and they don't want to look whooped in front of the buddies.

[calizaggy]

Thats the thing ALOT of women believe all the BS guys tell them,women want to believe they know men and love to answer for them and think they know it all about them.

 

.

 

 

Exactly.. I have used the same thing before, as have all guys..

 

"Honey, you know Joe cheated on his wife, how could he?"

 

"Aww, he is a bad man, she is so sweet"

 

"I agree honey,, I hate cheaters"

 

Anyway, this question is for the ladies..

 

I make the world a better place as I have no interest in sleeping with a married woman.. I do my part..I also do not want the vagina that another man has been using for years..

 

I can give SOOOO much anecdotal evidence, by why aren't women the same? They LINE UP to sleep with another woman's man.. The idea that"they didn't know he is married" is just a ridiculous excuse, as most of the time the women set their eyes on married men intentionally..

 

So we can ask men to reverse thousands of generations of their behavior, and their natural biological urges, or perhaps women should stop trying to sleep with married men? Seems like the latter is more effective and easier..

Edited March 23, 2010 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Taramere]

The kind of guys that regularly frequent strip joints are a different breed.

 

Based on your severly limited work history and experience, I would NOT use work location as a way to judge the males of the species if I were you.

 

Quite. I mean who the hell, male or female, would visit a strip club then express outrage about people getting lapdances? That would be like walking into a butcher's shop and yelling "get these carcasses out of my sight. It's a disgrace."

[calizaggy]

Quite. I mean who the hell, male or female, would visit a strip club then express outrage about people getting lapdances? That would be like walking into a butcher's shop and yelling "get these carcasses out of my sight. It's a disgrace."

 

 

And what about bachelor parties? Who can picture the following?

 

"Oh Joe, don't touch that stripper! You have been dating Suzy for years and will marry her soon! Our friendship is finished! You repulse me!" Yeah right... Boys will be boys..

Edited March 23, 2010 by calizaggy

[CrissyQ]

The kind of guys that regularly frequent strip joints are a different breed.

 

Based on your severly limited work history and experience, I would NOT use work location as a way to judge the males of the species if I were you.

 

:lmao::lmao: HAHAHA you would be surprised who goes to strip clubs,actually i don't think there is a type,from janitors to judges,your 18 old son to your grandfather.

 

Why would i not use my line of work to judge men,im surrounded by them.they have no reason to lie to me about being married or have a girlfriend because in my line of work it does not matter,they do not have to sugar talk me and say "honey im leaving my wife/girlfriend for you in due time"

[Twenty-ten]

Thats the thing ALOT of women believe all the BS guys tell them,women want to believe they know men and love to answer for them and think they know it all about them.

 

Alot of men as well fall for all the BS women tell them,but they don't try and answer for women and pretend to know everything about them.

 

I'm a dancer and guys will come in groups and trust me they encourage each other to do things,i never once heard a guy say "don't do it you're married,or you have a girlfriend"instead they are paying for their friends to get lap dances or "other things" I will admit men are a huge influence on each other if they are with a buddy who doesn't want a lap dance from a girl the other guys will say "aww he's whooped,he can't do nothing cuz his girlfriend is gonna spank him"

 

I have been in this line of work since i was 17 and yes alot of guys are dogs trust me i have seen it all,but i have also seen guys there not interested or feeling bad because they have a wife or girlfriend and they are only there because it's "guys night out" and they don't want to look whooped in front of the buddies.

 

 

You have got to be kidding me.

 

This is exactly like the crack dealer example I gave earlier in the thread, there are crack dealers on the street and there are people who smoke crack, but to say that the entire population are crack heads because dealers exist, is bananas.

 

Essentially some of you are saying all men are a certain way just because of how a select few behave in extreme conditions. Retarded!