Way too young to be in sexless marriage...

[Married_and_Lonely]

New to the board, first time poster. Sorry this is LONG, but details and background are important I think. I’m 31, have been married 8 years to my 32 year old wife, and we have two beautiful children (almost 6 and 3 years old). My wife (let’s call her Kate) and I met in college, dated for a couple years, and then got married right after I graduated. I was 23 at the time. I’d only dated a few girls before Kate and didn’t have any other serious relationships during college. I wasn’t good at approaching girls that I was attracted to so generally dated girls, including Kate, that made the first signal of interest. I wasn’t initially physically attracted to my wife, but as was my pattern, I became more attracted to her after I found out she was interested. We were both virgins when we married, me because of my Baptist upbringing, and Kate because I was her first serious boyfriend, she was shy, and sex wasn’t very important to her (no, I didn’t see the warning sign – I was 22 and blinded by love). I was a virgin only in the literal sense; did everything but intercourse with Kate before marriage (although the fooling around waned prior to marriage) and previous girlfriends in high school. Neither of us came from broken families, but our families are quite different. Mine was loud, energetic, very religious, and affectionate. Hers was silent, repressed, not religious and non-affectionate, but loving and not abusive. I participated in every sport/activity possible during high school while my wife tried to remain invisible during high school, including never going to prom.

 

Before I get into the ugly stuff, I’d like to give Kate some credit. She’s a wonderful mom that is very patient, loving, and responsible with the kids. She contributes to our family income with an 8 hour/week job, pays our bills (her choice because she likes to be in control), and cooks basic meals 3-4 times a week. She also does most of our family shopping and is usually reasonable with her spending.

 

Before I get attacked for making my wife do too much, here’s my list. I work a full-time professional job that occasionally requires long hours. I’m an active father and help around the house. I spend maybe 2-3 hours per week at somewhere other than work or home. When at home, I play with my little kids constantly and I help with laundry, bathing kids, dishes, picking up the house, scoop cat litter, take out trash, I do all outside lawn care, etc. I cheerfully do my share and usually without being asked

 

Our problem is that our marriage has drifted into an abyss of no physical or emotional intimacy and little communication. I’m the affectionate one probably because I was raised on hugs and saw my parents kiss plenty. But Kate doesn’t compliment me, doesn’t express any admiration towards me, thanks me seldom, and can never admit fault or say she’s sorry. She also doesn’t do hugs, cuddling, flirting, hand holding, etc (neither did her parents). She recently told me she’s never really enjoyed sex. We probably had sex 5 times in the last 2 years, although some of that is due to some ongoing health issues I had and our 2 year old sleeping in our bed. The lack of sex weighs heavy on my mind as I can usually tell you about how many months it’s been since the last time. Frankly, I’m becoming less prone to initiate it because the act isn’t very enjoyable. She lays like a dead fish, under the sheets, in the dark and won’t try any positions other than me on top. She says she’s not flexible enough, and I can tell she’s just trying to endure the ordeal until I’m done. I enjoy foreplay, but she’s not comfortable with giving or receiving oral or me using my hands down there. She likes when I kiss her neck, but that is about her only turn on. Even when I kiss her, she doesn’t put much effort into kissing back. I talked to her about these issues last year and even asked that she wear something sexier to bed than an old t-shirt and sweat pants (such as a silk night gown), but she hasn’t changed. She said I was trying to change who she is and I should love her for how she is. But Kate has never had an orgasm in her life and told me that she’s never masturbated. I think she was truthful because It was obvious that I thought it was more normal to masturbate than not. She enjoys dry humping and grinding more than actual intercourse, which I think is weird. She also doesn’t groom herself down there at all, which is a huge turn off for me

 

A big issue is she said she’s never felt physically pretty her whole life and mentioned a junior high boy that told her how ugly she was. Apparently she already felt that way, because instead of shrugging off the comment, she’s carried it all these years. Then our mutual “friend” told her either just before or just after marriage that when he asked me about her the first time in college I said I wasn’t attracted to her and wasn’t interested. This is true, but obviously not something I wanted her to know. As you can imagine, she still carries this pain and I can’t convince her otherwise that I became attracted to her later when I found out what a beautiful person she was. Because of her poor body image, she doesn’t smile or laugh much, is shy in social settings, and dresses very conservatively. I’m of course attracted to confident women that smile and laugh a lot and dress feminine, like a skirt, summer top, or summer dress. The last year I’ve tried to make an effort to compliment her on tops that I like or a physical feature such as her long legs that I like (although I admit to not doing it enough), but I feel like it’s too big of a job for just me to be completely in charge of her self esteem. I’ve told her that exercise would help her feel better and have energy, but she’s never been into exercise or sweating.

 

Another issue is the kids. Since they’ve been born, they’ve been her #1 priority. She pours all of her limited energy into keeping them happy and entertained. When I arrive home from work, I’m usually immediately met with a disastrous house and told how crazy the kids are and how exhausted she is. We then take turns taking care of the kids for the rest of the night until they’re finally asleep, at which point we just stare at the TV. She has fun with the kids and laughs and smiles with the kids, but not with me.

 

In the last couple years, I’ve become more confident around women and have begun to flirt some. Kate caught me trolling on an online dating site last year (before our big talk), but I haven’t cheated on her or even had any type of extra-marital relationship other than casual, random flirting. The online dating site thing was me window shopping and fantasizing about having a loving, interesting wife that valued me. Unbeknownst to Kate, I flirted with a 20-year old, very cute waitress last year that thought I was single and she gave me her number, but I never called the girl for obvious reasons and stopped going to the restaurant. I know an affair isn’t the answer and also didn’t want to lie anymore to the waitress. But this event only strengthened my feelings that I could attract someone closer to what I desire.

 

We recently went on a 1-week cruise vacation by ourselves, but there was no romantic connection. We fought over trivial things and just generally had a very boring vacation acting like old people and watching others have fun. Again, we went out last Friday for our anniversary on a night on the town (dinner, drinks, & show) that I planned and I had the kids spend the night with her parents. Again, no connection, little talking, no flirting, and watching others do these things. She has fun when she goes out with her friend or her sister (at least 2 nights a month usually), but when we’re alone you can hear crickets chirping during our awkward silences. At work, I’m an outgoing jokester and the unofficial “social captain” per se that organizes group lunches and happy hours, but at home I find it difficult to carry the conversation all by myself. I do ask everyone about their day at the dinner table.

 

So what to do about all this? I suggested counseling last year and she didn’t want it, but I haven’t pushed the issue further and she doesn’t think I’ll leave her because of the kids. I’ve given divorce some thought, but I love my kids to death, can’t imagine being without them, and hate the idea of destroying their happy childhood. But the greedy side of me fantasizes about dating women that I’m attracted to (which I’ve never done in my life) and perhaps finding a loving partner that I’m more compatible with. I think getting married at 23 was a mistake; I’m much different now than I was then. At 23, I was more conservative, shy, afraid of rejection from women, didn’t drink alcohol at all, wasn’t very social, etc. I’m not completely different now, but I definitely have a lot more going for me now that would help me find my ideal mate. I’m confused, lonely, and sad. At 23, my wife was a good match for me. But at 31, she’s no longer what I want. But we have these beautiful, wonderful children that I want to love, nurture, and protect. But I’m a romantic too and I’m worried that I’ll settle for living my life this way only to look back when it’s too late with huge regret for not seeking a more satisfying partner that is sexual, affectionate, and enjoys life.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Married_and_Lonely

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

You pretty much summed it all up in your (long) post. Here's my (long) response to you.

 

My story is much like yours... and I have been where you are. Met my wife @ age 21, I was totally sexually inexperienced, and my wife the same (yes both virgins too, but we were doing it for a year before marriage).

 

My wife has had self esteem and self worth issues in the past due to many things, but some major causes were her brothers and father disrespectful attitude towards women and her oldest brother subjecting her to some forms of abuse. These issues have not been shared with anyone but me, and they are still today unresolved. After the birth of our 5th child my wife peaked at over 250lbs. She's 5'10 and large boned, and genuinely was not unattractive to me even then. Fast forward 3+ years later, she has lost about 100 pounds. She is the hottest I have ever seen her in our 17 years together...

 

Right now I would say my sex life is a 9+ on quality / intimacy/ connection / love etc... and perhaps as good as a 6 or 7 on frequency (about once a week). I like to think I want it 5-6 or more times a week, but I could likely not handle it more than 2-3 times weekly.

 

As you can imagine, over the course of 17 years, there have been many ups and downs in our sex life. I define sexless as being without sex and intimacy for over a month or more (excluding after baby - we didn't wait the full 6 weeks there either). For me there have not truly been 'sexless times,' but there have been many nights I went to bed resentful or feeling unloved, etc. Especially those times when there was a toddler between us... I have grown to understand that is it almost a sin to have a child much beyond infancy in the bed (ruling out a night or two of illness and/or being scared).

 

I think that you can recover if you want to. It may be a long road though and you need to prepare yoursself for that.

 

Based on what I read in your post, you have forgotten how important it is for your wife to be into you and emotionally connected before you attempt to become sexually intimate.

 

I think you need to ride that dry humping / grinding / non intercourse road a little more. Get intimate and feel close without sex. Most importantly you need to genuinely turn around your feelings of resentment and disappointment. Once you can genuinely love her again, without the need for immediate gratification, once you have released the pressure of your needs from her, things will turn around. I believe strongly that you can do it. I know it will not be easy, but you can do it.

 

Leaving her to find someone else is the silliest thing you can do at this point. What if you divorced, found the 'perfect' woman for you, and your second marriage was in the same boat years from now?

 

I am not sure if the first step is individual counseling for you, or perhaps showing your wife this thread and telling her where you are at, but it's time to make a change. In the end it will be a positive change. Keep in mind the immediate future will likely be tough, but in the long run it will be worth it. Trust me on that.

 

Good Luck

[CarrieT]

I’ve given divorce some thought, but I love my kids to death, can’t imagine being without them, and hate the idea of destroying their happy childhood.

 

I got news for you, Dude. Your children's lives will NOT be happy when they start seeing how unhappy their parents are. They may already be picking up on how bad your relationship is what you are doing is instilling in them how to ultimately treat their spouses; how fair is that to them?

 

You have to teach them NOW -- as does your wife -- the importance of open and honest communication and love. And that includes sex.

 

And if that does not exist in the marriage, than your children will grow up scarred and probably unable to have healthy relationships of their own.

[Married_and_Lonely]

Thanks for the replies both of you. I gave my wife a long letter last year that summed up just about everything here, and I tried to be firm but loving in it. I asked her to give it some thought and write me a reply letter since I found that writing the letter helped me explore all of my feelings and not leave anything out. But instead she just took a couple minutes and then asked why I was attacking everything about her. She said I was asking her to be a completely different person and that it wasn't fair of me to ask. That was about 8 months ago; we haven't talked about the letter since the two weeks after and she hasn't changed one bit. This was also all following the online dating website fiasco, so you'd think she take it very serious and want to fight for her marriage.

 

But I think it just makes her sad to think about it now that I'm not happy (despite no sex or affection, I guess she assumed I was happy before). But for whatever reason, she thinks changing is beyond her powers.

 

I walk up to her and say "I love you", and try to hug and kiss her (even just last night), but she just stands there stiff, barely kisses back, and doesn't put her arms around me or even lean into the hug.

 

I think my next step is either to insist or couples counseling (but I just know she'll feel like she's being attacked), or to suggest reading a marriage book and talking about it (more likely for her to agree to this one).

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

If she will not go to couples counseling, then begin with some individual counseling... she will hopefully see the positive changes in you, your positive talk of the therapist, and she may open herself up to couples counseling.

 

What you are going through is very typical of many individuals who marry young and inexperienced. You did not date around too much and/or experience many different partners. You are caught in the possible fantasy of selecting a new partner (the butterfly in the stomach / honeymmon stage)... on top of it your wife has withdrawn sexually. Look at this as a test. Do things the right way. Not the wrong way!

 

That would involve working through the issues to get to a better place. After working on through those issues, and sufficiently resolving them, then you can look each other in the eye and say that the love is gone and it's time to move on, then you have earned the right to begin the process of ending the marriage...

[mem11363]

I don't get this - not kidding either. The comments I excerpted directly below are not about sex at all - they are about the relationship. Why have you allowed a situation to evolve where:

- you go out of your way to make her life great

- she rarely thanks you compliments you and never admits she is wrong

 

That isn't actually her fault - it is yours. Why would you possibly encourage her to treat you like this? And yes when you do all that nice loving stuff despite being treated very badly - you are encouraging this behavior.

 

Your wife gets an A as a Mom and an F as a wife.

 

 

>>>>>>>>>>

But Kate doesn’t compliment me, doesn’t express any admiration towards me, thanks me seldom, and can never admit fault or say she’s sorry. She also doesn’t do hugs, cuddling, flirting, hand holding, etc (neither did her parents).

 

 

If she will not go to couples counseling, then begin with some individual counseling... she will hopefully see the positive changes in you, your positive talk of the therapist, and she may open herself up to couples counseling.

 

What you are going through is very typical of many individuals who marry young and inexperienced. You did not date around too much and/or experience many different partners. You are caught in the possible fantasy of selecting a new partner (the butterfly in the stomach / honeymmon stage)... on top of it your wife has withdrawn sexually. Look at this as a test. Do things the right way. Not the wrong way!

 

That would involve working through the issues to get to a better place. After working on through those issues, and sufficiently resolving them, then you can look each other in the eye and say that the love is gone and it's time to move on, then you have earned the right to begin the process of ending the marriage...

[sweetjasmine]

But I think it just makes her sad to think about it now that I'm not happy (despite no sex or affection, I guess she assumed I was happy before). But for whatever reason, she thinks changing is beyond her powers.

 

I walk up to her and say "I love you", and try to hug and kiss her (even just last night), but she just stands there stiff, barely kisses back, and doesn't put her arms around me or even lean into the hug.

 

 

That's really sad. I'm sorry you're going through this. She's been basically rejecting you on a regular basis. If she continues to refuse counseling, what are you going to do?

[LucreziaBorgia]

A broken marriage can't be fixed if only one person wants to fix it.

 

If she refuses to go to counseling with you, then your choices are limited: learn to cope with being celibate and continue with your wife like roommates/family (meaning you remain affectionate, but stop any and all romantic/sexual advances), or divorce.

 

I feel genuinely terrible for spouses who are trapped in such sterile arrangements.

[mem11363]

This whole idea of "this is how I am and I am not even going to try to change to make you happy" is the refuge of people who don't acknowledge that marriage is a job and sometimes it requires effort.

 

I will tell you this - with certainty. If you say things like "I could never not be around my children" your wife hears - I don't have to change because no matter what I do or don't do he isn't going to leave.

 

 

 

Thanks for the replies both of you. I gave my wife a long letter last year that summed up just about everything here, and I tried to be firm but loving in it. I asked her to give it some thought and write me a reply letter since I found that writing the letter helped me explore all of my feelings and not leave anything out. But instead she just took a couple minutes and then asked why I was attacking everything about her. She said I was asking her to be a completely different person and that it wasn't fair of me to ask. That was about 8 months ago; we haven't talked about the letter since the two weeks after and she hasn't changed one bit. This was also all following the online dating website fiasco, so you'd think she take it very serious and want to fight for her marriage.

 

But I think it just makes her sad to think about it now that I'm not happy (despite no sex or affection, I guess she assumed I was happy before). But for whatever reason, she thinks changing is beyond her powers.

 

I walk up to her and say "I love you", and try to hug and kiss her (even just last night), but she just stands there stiff, barely kisses back, and doesn't put her arms around me or even lean into the hug.

 

I think my next step is either to insist or couples counseling (but I just know she'll feel like she's being attacked), or to suggest reading a marriage book and talking about it (more likely for her to agree to this one).

[D-Lish]

I guess you really have to ask yourself if you want to sit on the sidelines and watch other people live the kind of life you want, or join the game in progress.

 

It isn't a noble act to spend the rest of your life with someone that isn't capable of fulfilling your needs. You aren't doing them or yourself a service by sticking it out if it can't be fixed.

 

Kate sounds like a great mother, but she doesn't sound any happier than you are at the moment.

 

Are you willing to invest in a sexless marriage for the rest of your life?

 

Take the steps necessary to try and work this out. Communicate how you truly feel and suggest counselling. Counselling may lead you two to a amicable separation, who knows?

 

Don't complicate things with an affair. Sort out your marriage and explore if it's worth saving- but let her participate and contribute to the process, because she deserves to be an active participant in this.

 

The two of you don't sound like you have a marriage, it sounds more like an arrangement, and that is no way to spend the rest of your days, not for either of you.

[seibert253]

A broken marriage can't be fixed if only one person wants to fix it.

 

If she refuses to go to counseling with you, then your choices are limited: learn to cope with being celibate and continue with your wife like roommates/family (meaning you remain affectionate, but stop any and all romantic/sexual advances), or divorce.

 

I feel genuinely terrible for spouses who are trapped in such sterile arrangements.

 

^^^^^^

This right here.

If can't live with the way things currently are, (and by the way I don't think your should), you need to make it crystal clear that there needs to be some changes for BOTH of you to fix this, or D. Easier said than done, but those are pretty much your choices.

 

Good Luck and God Bless

[LucreziaBorgia]

She also doesn’t do hugs, cuddling, flirting, hand holding, etc (neither did her parents).

 

This is an unintended lesson that will be handed down to your children as well. Your staying and suffering is an unintended lesson as well. Do you want your children to be like her, or be victims of it like you?

 

Perhaps your wife will not consider change for your benefit, but perhaps if you gently remind her that she is participating in contributing to future dysfunctional relationships for her own children perhaps she would be more willing to work with you?

 

What legacy does she want to pass down to her children? That marriage is a cold dead prison? Or that marriage is made of compromise and problem solving skills in order to work to a more functional relationship?

[Luv2dance]

Sounds to me like your wife really needs some individual counseling to deal with her sex and self esteem issues. I think there could be hope for your relationship but I agree you can't fix a marriage with only one person working to make it better.

 

I agree maybe start counseling for yourself and see if that motivates her to want to change.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Tell her to figure out what makes her tick. Then tell her we are going to counseling, and that we can go together or you can go on your own.

 

Tell her you want to live a happy life and that includes her if she wants to go on the journey with you.

 

Everything you wrote about her tells me she is damaged and needs a wake-up call.

 

Everyday you wait the resentment and hate will grow.

 

The story about the cruise and the anniversary and everyday you coming home to a house devoid of love and affection really saddens me.

 

If she has no interest in the above, tell her it's time to talk about a separation.

[dazzle22]

The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. Everything about your wife indicates she is totally apathetic to you, your needs, and to being a sexual and sensual woman. She has morphed into a mother only. She is not even a good friend to you. I don't know how one instills caring where there is none. It is like trying to resurrect the dead.

 

I really hope counseling can work for you, but she sounds like a horse that won't even be led to water let alone drink. I think you need to consider that you may need to move on in order to have a happy life with a responsive partner. Your children will see the unhappiness as they get older; you staying for them will not prevent them from seeing the unhappiness at home. You sound like a great guy. Wish your problem sounded more solvable...

[Married_and_Lonely]

It's tough for me to see these negative things written about my wife, even though I know they're mostly true. Please stay focused on giving me constructive help; I'm not on here to bash my wife.

 

After reading your comments and seeing the reactions I wondered to myself if I was too harsh. To be fair, she does say "thank you" a little more than she used to (like last time I hand washed all the dishes that wouldn't fit into the dishwasher after I loaded it), although it's usually in passing and doesn't come across to me as very heartfelt.

 

And she will say "love you too" when I tell her I love her, but it's always under her breath and I don't think she's ever said it first our whole marriage.

 

I think she does love me, but she's not in love me with me (to be totally cliche), which would be true for both of us. But last night we were enjoying the beautiful weather in Texas and I looked up at her and was surprised to be very physically attracted to her. The wind caught her hair, she was smiling big while talking to my neighbor, and I thought "wow, she looks really pretty tonight!" I didn't find a good moment to tell her because I forgot about it by the time we were alone, but I'm going to email her today and let her know.

 

Also, even though the last time we had sex was boring and unrewarding, I tried to be encouraging and positive afterwards telling her how nice that it was. She has a fragile self esteem obviously and I don't think constantly attacking and picking at her and telling her she's doing it wrong will give me positive results.

 

Your thoughts?

[Luv2dance]

I don't think anyone is bashing your wife, but most agreeing that she will probably need help from a 3rd party if you want things to change. You can't change her if she doesn't want to be changed. It will probably take some tough love from you to make her see that you are serious about making your marriage a happy place to be.

 

I think positive feedback is always better than negative so any compliments you can give her are a good thing.

 

Have you ever ask her if she really loves you or if she is happy with your marriage?

[Married_and_Lonely]

I asked her a couple years ago, "what's wrong with you? You never seem happy." And she said she wasn't happy and cried a little. But I couldn't get her to tell me why she wasn't happy. She then clammed back up like usual and said she was fine.

 

I think at the time our son was less than a year old and she was feeling overwhelmed with the never ending demands of our children. She probably wasn't getting enough nights off from child duty, but she was nursing at the time I believe. I think she's happier now, but I don't know 100% if she still loves me. I guess I just assume she would love me because it would seem ridiculous not to considering how much I do for her and the family.

 

I think the other thing going on is that she senses that my love for her is waning and as a defense mechanism, she's not going to love me if she doesn't think I love her (if that makes any sense). But it would be a lie for me to promise at this point that I'll always love her and never leave her no matter what; I don't think I can make that commitment.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Married_and_Lonely

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You asked for responses and many were tough (mine as tough as anyone's). If you are serious, unhappy (and her too), you have to take action. Frankly you are too young to live like this and your wife should figure out for herself whether she likes sex or not?????

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

I think the other thing going on is that she senses that my love for her is waning and as a defense mechanism, she's not going to love me if she doesn't think I love her (if that makes any sense). But it would be a lie for me to promise at this point that I'll always love her and never leave her no matter what; I don't think I can make that commitment.

 

Been there. Done that.

 

I remember a 45 minute marital counseling session a couple of years back that went over 90 minutes. I was insisting that I could not give 100% to my wife because I was not 100% sure she was in it... The counselor was going round and round and trying to get me to see that I will never ever truly know if she is 100% in it. Even if she swears it, and I believe it, that perception could change at a moment’s notice. I had to be 100% in it for me, and committed for us, REGARDLESS of whether she was 100% in it or not. I was insisting that I didn't understand how I could be expected to do that. Finally, the counselor got through to me at the end. It was like a light bulb went on. An epiphany of sorts.

 

Since that counseling session our marriage has been much, much better. I do not look to measure her level of commitment to decide how much I will put in anymore. I simply assume that she will be all in. It works much better that way... It's really a matter of trust.

[lordWilhelm]

But it would be a lie for me to promise at this point that I'll always love her and never leave her no matter what; I don't think I can make that commitment.

 

That wouldn't be a good idea anyways, because that would just reinforce the current status. Quite the opposite, you should explain to her that you love her and care about her but that you're not happy with the current situation and things need to change.

 

When you go to bed tonight, why don't you hold tight in your arms for a few minutes and then ask her if something is bothering her. If she closes up again, then look in her eyes -- make sure you're making a connection with her, and tell her what's on your mind.

 

You need to find that spark almost two years ago when she almost opened up to you.

[Married_and_Lonely]

That isn't actually her fault - it is yours. Why would you possibly encourage her to treat you like this? And yes when you do all that nice loving stuff despite being treated very badly - you are encouraging this behavior.

 

What you suggest me doing? Treat her badly because she treats me that way? That sounds like it'd make things worse.

 

For example, last night she showed me no love again, but asked for a shoulder massage because she said she had a hard day and carried some heavy stuff. So I sat behind her and rubbed her shoulders for 5 mins or so. Would you have handled this differently? How so?

 

Saying "if you don't start giving me good sex, I'm not going to do the dishes" sounds strange to me. I don't want to blackmail my wife into sex, and our sex is so far removed from what I want honestly I don't think it's possible she'll ever get there. Improve a little, yea, that's possible. But do I think she can ever satisfy me completely? Not really. But I don't think much improvement will be made until she gets beyond her feeling that sex is dirty, which I think is the case, and would probably take counseling to sort out.

 

But maybe I don't need complete sexual satisfaction to be happy. If she would just make some effort and improve moderately, I think that could make me happy and feel loved by her efforts. I was thinking an approach like "I love you and care for you, but I'm not happy. And if you love me, then you should want to show that love to me and try to satisfy me through affection and sex" might be the better course than your ultra tough love strategy. But I am listening and open to a new way of thinking.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Married_and_Lonely

[Married_and_Lonely]

Your children will see the unhappiness as they get older; you staying for them will not prevent them from seeing the unhappiness at home.

 

I've told myself this before, but I think I was just trying to justify in my head a noble reason to divorce without guilt. Then I read the studies that peaceful homes, even with unhappily married parents, are much better environments for children than divorced families, so I'm back to square one and thinking staying for the kids as long as we're not yelling and throwing stuff at each other is better.

 

Sometimes the 4 of us sit down in the living room and play a board game, or she'll read them books at night and I'll stay in the room to pick it up some (usually toys are everywhere of course with a 2 year old boy). So right now it's a very loving environment for them. I do worry that my almost 6 year old daughter will notice that mommy and daddy never hug or show each affection and think that's normal. Last night she was telling me about how she hugs her teddy bear, and I said, "yea, hugs are really good."

 

When I finally man up and talk to "Kate" I am going to mention the point someone else made about the kids learning future relationship skills from us and will have affection issues if we don't correct this. That was a good point I hadn't considered. I thought they'd learn most of their affection skills from how we treat them (parent to kid), but it seems reasonable they'd also learn from observing how we treat each other (man and wife).

 

But I do hug my kids and tell them I love them everyday. And my son is 2 1/2, so it's not a big deal yet, but I tell my daughter that she's beautiful and smart, and I love her sooo much.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Married_and_Lonely

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Why did you bother posting???? Since the first post, where we saw and read the pain, you've backtracked and are now making excuses and ready to live with this.

 

I made some pointed comments, which are simple to do. Mem11363, while somewhat crass, basically says "Do not bend over backwards to feed her needs".... You gave her a massage, has she ever given you one? Simply he is saying 'tit for tat'.....

 

Why is it difficult to talk to her about basic needs in a marriage?

[Married_and_Lonely]

Why did you bother posting???? Since the first post, where we saw and read the pain, you've backtracked and are now making excuses and ready to live with this.

 

I made some pointed comments, which are simple to do. Mem11363, while somewhat crass, basically says "Do not bend over backwards to feed her needs".... You gave her a massage, has she ever given you one? Simply he is saying 'tit for tat'.....

 

Why is it difficult to talk to her about basic needs in a marriage?

 

I think you're misinterpreting my tone. My "what would you suggest I do?" was meant to be an actual question to be answered with new ideas I haven't considered, not a rhetorical defense statement.