Way too young to be in sexless marriage...

[Married_and_Lonely]

or, as I suspect, she knows very well you will never leave or don't have the guts to do it...

 

you make me staying around sound cowardly, but I would think at this point, having not even tried counseling or anythign else to fix the relationship, leaving her and my kids and breaking up the family would be the cowardly act. I am willing to eventually divorce if after trying counseling and whatever else it still seems hopeless. But when my kids grow up I want them to know that I didn't take this lightly and I tried everything I could before I broke up the family.

[giotto]

you make me staying around sound cowardly, but I would think at this point, having not even tried counseling or anythign else to fix the relationship, leaving her and my kids and breaking up the family would be the cowardly act. I am willing to eventually divorce if after trying counseling and whatever else it still seems hopeless. But when my kids grow up I want them to know that I didn't take this lightly and I tried everything I could before I broke up the family.

 

I think you misunderstood what I meant... I'm in your position too and I'm staying for the kids too, so I can't criticise you for staying...

 

We tried the counselling and all the rest and we just got stuck. Nothing changed, so I said I was leaving... she is making an effort now.

 

I agree you need to explore all avenues before you go, if you will eventually go. It's the right thing to do. For your family and your kids. But I do understand what's happening to you... all these years of rejection have caused you to fall out of love with your wife, right? I'm there... she is making an effort and he is nice to me, but I just can't get back into the groove... too much hurt and resentment... she finally explained the reasons, but I still think she was incredibly selfish. I can't get past that. I hope you can...

[Married_and_Lonely]

While I do not think this is your fault, I do think that you are unintentionally doing things to turn your wife off. It looks like you have taken on the role of the de-masculanized, defeated husband with no backbone.

 

This woman does not respect you right now. She told you that she was glad that you weren't divorcing her because that would make her look bad, she didn't even say that she loved you and didn't want to lose you.

 

I honestly feel like women lose respect for men when they see such "wimpy" behavior. Women need a man who has opinions and demands respect.

 

You make good points, but when I picked the weeds that day after coming home from work, it wasn't for her, it was for me. I saw that it needed to be done, and instead of procrastinating which i do often, for once I wanted to get it done immediately. When I do the dishes or laundy, I'm not doing it for a pet on the head and a "good boy" assurance. I know how hard it is to get these things done when you're watching the kids and I'm taking the opportunity to help out instead of just laying on the couch and letting the house fall down around me.

 

But I do let her walk on me too much and I do try too much to please her when she's nagging. Almost daily she'll fire at me her pissed off look if something bother her and my typical response is "what's wrong? i'm sorry.. i'll fix it" because I've always been a people pleaser, peace keeper. I've thought that it was a good trait that I'm selfless, but every relationship I've been in that selfless quality was taken advantage by the woman where they always expect to get their way.

[carhill]

I've thought that it was a good trait that I'm selfless, but every relationship I've been in that selfless quality was taken advantage by the woman where they always expect to get their way.

 

Here's a real good tip: When you sense that boundary has been breached, bye-bye. No negotiation, no comment. 'I feel unappreciated and taken advantage of'. Next. Doesn't matter if you're single or married. If they want the value of your love and 'selflessness', they can show appropriate respect and appreciation. Being a Hoover isn't being respectful nor appreciative and certainly not loving.

 

Bing, boom, bang, out you go onto more compatible potentials. Good luck

[giotto]

Here's a real good tip: When you sense that boundary has been breached, bye-bye. No negotiation, no comment. 'I feel unappreciated and taken advantage of'. Next. Doesn't matter if you're single or married. If they want the value of your love and 'selflessness', they can show appropriate respect and appreciation. Being a Hoover isn't being respectful nor appreciative and certainly not loving.

 

Bing, boom, bang, out you go onto more compatible potentials. Good luck

 

it's funny you say that... I've been quite selfless throughout my marriage and it just turned me into a doormat... when I was telling my wife I was leaving, do you know what she said? That she loved me because I was the most selfless person she's ever met... I just wanted to kill her... well, not literally, but you know what I mean...

[carhill]

I know exactly what you mean. Here's the MC version: People are who they are. Accept that. Decide what *you* want to do for *you*. They don't get to sit at that table.

[Married_and_Lonely]

when I was telling my wife I was leaving, do you know what she said? That she loved me because I was the most selfless person she's ever met...

 

I think I can rival that comment.. my wife told me once with a tear in her eye that one of her favorite things about me is that I rarely question her spending. HA! what a reason to love someone!

[mem11363]

If she is overspending - she is going to eventually bury BOTH of you. You don't want to end up divorced AND bankrupt.

 

First place to be assertive in a marriage is regarding the budget. Be objective, rational and firm as a granite wall.

 

 

I think I can rival that comment.. my wife told me once with a tear in her eye that one of her favorite things about me is that I rarely question her spending. HA! what a reason to love someone!

[linwood]

I`ll never understand why men marry women who dislike sex and then complain their wives dislike sex.

 

I don`t get it.

[Lovelybird]

At my core, I'm not physically attracted to her most of the time because she has no energy, no light-heartedness, doesn't smile much, doesn't laugh much, and she has some physical features I find unattractive. However, when she kids around and acts fun and smiles, I'm often surprised at the temporary return of my physical attraction to her. I was attracted to her more strongly before we had all of these relationship issues. But I've never looked at her like I look at beautiful women that I see everyday that I'm very strongly attracted to.

 

Have you tried to communicate this to her? The reasons why you aren't attracted to her?

 

I've tried my best to hide this truth from her and constantly assure her that I think she's pretty, but I've been unable to tell her that she's sexy in a convincing manner.

 

Women usually have extra radar than men. So we can sense the truth even you say something otherwise. I think the best stratedy is to be honest with her. Totally.

 

Also, as I said in my first post of this thread, a friend told her right around the time of our marriage that before we even started dating I told him that I wasn't attracted to her.

 

I told her two nights ago that she can't hold that over my head forever because we weren't even dating then, and I've apologized many, many times and tried my best to convince her otherwise. But I don't think she'll ever completely forgive or forget that comment. It wouldn't be as damaging if she didn't already have a shaky self image of herself.

I think the apology won't be convincing either. What you've said has been said, as I understand, the more loving way would be that you completely are honest with her, and healing may happen based on truth, without honesty and truth, you have nowhere to start to heal. What is the truth? What you've said above.

 

If you haven't communicate with her honestly, you are hiding part of you, I think that kill intimacy and passion.

 

I know a book I think it can really help you, it also talks about a case that a wife overspent the money and take advantage of her husband's niceness. Boundary in Marriage--Dr Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend

 

Also I think some posters may be right. You are too nice, too nice and people pleaser isn't real selfless, because you grow resentment later. And real love isn't about do whatever she is pleased. You need to challenge her. In this book, the authors will challenge your old mindset of people pleaser. After you straighten up your mindset, then you would be able to do things according to the right principles on a daily basis.

 

Some challenges in marriages is really about personal growth.

[Lovelybird]

I`ll never understand why men marry women who dislike sex and then complain their wives dislike sex.

 

I don`t get it.

Because in the beginning most of wives love sex, and later they change

[Married_and_Lonely]

If she is overspending - she is going to eventually bury BOTH of you. You don't want to end up divorced AND bankrupt.

 

First place to be assertive in a marriage is regarding the budget. Be objective, rational and firm as a granite wall.

 

The main reason I don't question her spending is because it's 95% of the time very reasonable. She mostly buys things for our house and kids and doesn't spend much on clothes and basically doesn't buy any jewelry. And she drives a 6 year old car that we paid off 3 years ago. We both have business degrees and we don't believe in having credit card debt.

 

I just thought her comment was a bit off-based.

[Married_and_Lonely]

I`ll never understand why men marry women who dislike sex and then complain their wives dislike sex.

 

I don`t get it.

 

because I was 23 years old, dumb, and got married for the wrong reasons despite my gut telling me it wasn't right. We'd been dating for a few years, I was finishing up school, and it seemed like the logical next step to get married once I was out of college. And then about a year later, she was ready to have a kid since it was a little boring just the two of us, and though I wanted to say I wasn't sure if I was ready since I even then doubted the sustainability of our marriage, I was too much of a wimp to say anything. I only have myself to blame for my entire predicament.

 

Looking back though, at 23 I was such a kid still. I had my first beer at my bachelor's party, which was held at Dave & Busters (the video game restaurant) and I thought the beer was gross. Our marriage counseling was a joke - I think the pastor asked us 3 questions and they all had to do with communicating, which back then we had no problems with because everything was still rosy.

[RegardingMe]

We have been togather 15 years. At various points, I haven't been happy. My DH isn't into sex, has always had a much lowwer sex drive then me, medicine lowwering hornone levels and just being overwhelmed at work etc. So bottomline, We have been through a few years of horrible lonely nights.

 

I have talked and talked and talked to him. Nothing worked and I became more hopeless, giving up on things. I then flat out told him that his lack of change or even looking at it was driving us apart. That I was becoming more and more resentful etc. I said not a healthly enviroment for child. I asked him what he envisioned our marriage like. I said if he can't make an effort go to counseling etc, then I am out of here with our child.

 

I also told him I had lost my sexual desire after his rejections etc.My DH is really addicted to the computer. He came home (we were talking on the phone) has started to help clean up the mess of our relationship. I did remind him that we are both responsible. .

 

I also realized that when our child was born things changed. That is one totally, me. I was out of whack with the hormones. I was out of whack with sleep and how it effected me. I got so involved with my child that I didn't pay the attention I should to him. This changed how I acted with him.

 

He went to the Dr. We are now trying to play sexually in different ways. I didn't feel any desire now when he does I am. He is happier and is taking care of me better. Things I plan to do are massage and not making it about sex. It will go there. You did the trip alone. We at one point when DD was 3, just went a hotel and played and slept over night.

 

I do not feel that you are playing fair by telling your wife that your not ending things. The facts are you are thinking of ending it. It sounds like your trying to spare feelings in trying to cover about the web page.

 

While your requesting her to do things, she isn't going to out of fear, lethargy, etc. I think if your going to save your marriage then you need total honestly, harsh. However, not being with your kids everyday is harsher. You said in your post that you want to know that you gave it every effort, but your not if you don't tell her how on the line it is.

 

If money permits make a sat. appointment at the day spa. Make an appointment for her to get her female petals taken care of. Tell her it you like that. Take her out that night and make her feel special. Look I get she isn't meeting your needs right now. What I realized with my husband is I get what I give.

 

Someone once told me, men feel loved when they get sex, women give sex when they feel love. Seduce your wife into feeling more beautiful.

 

I am a large woman, when I feel desired by my husband I feel sexier.

 

Do you want to be happy with her? Do you think you can make a relationship work with her? If that is truly your goal, tell her the truth.

 

Ask her if she is as lonely as you are? Ask her if she feels like things are missing? If she wants to go to church go to church, however be honest and tell her it isn't going to make you stay with her if you and her aren't going to both make an effort to improve your relationship. Make an appointment with a therapist. Show your wife your willing to do the work to fix this. I understand you don't want to undermind your wife's esteem, but put your big boy pants and fight for your marriage. Tell her the truth that unless your both willing to do this it wont' work.

 

Like I said, I had to do this to my husband and we are so much better.

[Married_and_Lonely]

I then flat out told him that his lack of change or even looking at it was driving us apart. That I was becoming more and more resentful etc. I said not a healthly enviroment for child. I asked him what he envisioned our marriage like. I said if he can't make an effort go to counseling etc, then I am out of here with our child.

 

Thanks for your advice. I've talked to several people both online and not about this and I think I can relate to this story the best so far. But didn't you resent the fact that it took a threat of you leaving to get him to want to change? That your happiness wasn't a good enough reason? I resent that. How can she say she loves me and then when I tell her how much pain the relationship is causing me, she still doesn't want to do anything about it because it's a little uncomfortable for her?!? It shouldn't take the immeditate threat of leaving, should it?

[RegardingMe]

I "should be enough" Has really torn at my self esteem. But for me I had to decide what was more important my ego or my marriage. My ego or my child living in a single parent home. My ego or life as I want it.

 

I was at the point of living with a roommate. So I decided to change it up or leave it. I gave him a promise. I joined in a partnership. We both are at fault, let's fix it or I am leaving.

 

I have asked for years for him to change. I believe he wants me happy. However, he would get focused on other things. He and I would forget life and put everything else first.

[Married_and_Lonely]

Women usually have extra radar than men. So we can sense the truth even you say something otherwise. I think the best stratedy is to be honest with her. Totally.

 

 

I think the apology won't be convincing either. What you've said has been said, as I understand, the more loving way would be that you completely are honest with her, and healing may happen based on truth, without honesty and truth, you have nowhere to start to heal. What is the truth? What you've said above.

 

If you haven't communicate with her honestly, you are hiding part of you, I think that kill intimacy and passion.

 

Thanks for your input. But I don't think I can be totally honest. I wasn't even totally honest on here because I'm ashamed of my feelings. You want harsh honesty - here it is.

 

My top physical turn-ons on a woman, in order of importance to me, are 1) face, 2) at least decent sized breasts, 3) a reasonable weight, and 4) nice legs.

 

1) When she smiles, I think her face is cute. But 80% of the time she doesn't smile, and when she doesn't smile her face is very unattractive to me. It's long with a square jaw and looks manly to me. See how awful that sounds? I feel awful, truly awful, to feel those feelings.

 

2) Her breasts are small B cups. My first gf in highschool was a D cup, next one was a C cup, and then I dated my wife. I guess it's a good thing I stopped.

 

3) Her weight is more than reasonable and I am attracted to her thinness. She eats mostly fast food and junk food, but has good family genes.

 

4) Her legs are long and lean, but not tan and have little muscle. But I'm fine with them and like to rub/kiss them.

 

I sound like a horrible, superficial person, but I can't shake these feelings, especially when she walks around the house with her "i'm sad and bored with life" look on her face. Quite often I ask, "is something bothing you?" and she'll say, "no, i'm fine" in a "why are are you asking?" puzzled tone. I guess that's just her normal state, but it's a turn-off for me and she can't change that.

 

So everyone go and rip me for me a superficial, insensitive jerk. I'm just a balding, barely 6'0", reasonably attractive man with several health issues that haven't allowed me to work out the last few years. So I don't think I deserve a runway model, but I wish I could look at my wife and want to jump her bones. I've never really felt that way, even early in our marriage. Sure I wanted sex more back then, but mainly because I wanted sex, not because I wanted her. The exception was back then she wore a silk nighty to bed that I just couldn't resist. It was short and flattered her legs, and was easy access, and felt good, and I loved it. I asked her last year to start wearing something like that to bed again, but she didn't respond to my request and didn't do it.

 

And yes, attitude and personality, can really make up for pure physical beauty. This is why I think I dated her and we got married. She had a good attitude and personality and I enjoyed spending time with her. And she smiled more like 50% of the time. But now that her attitude and personality aren't there most of the time, I'm left trying to be attracted to her physical attributes and it's hard for me.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Married_and_Lonely

[RegardingMe]

I don't think your superficial. I do think you better take that dumb ass post off quick.

 

That is the last thing you want her to see.

[Married_and_Lonely]

I don't think I can now after you posted - trying to get moderator's attention now.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Married_and_Lonely

[RegardingMe]

I gucess don't worry about it. My DH knows about this website I was reading it to him last night.

[RegardingMe]

I think saying that was brave. I think sometimes we need to have our spouses, meaning yours read the thread to see how your thoughts evolve.

 

I have harsh reality. if you don't plan on that, say anything you want.

 

Here's something that I am embrassed by. My husband still doesn't do it for me. He likes it where I basically do what ever we do while I tell him what if you came home and caught me with a girl? etc etc etc. I stay in his moment and don't get out of my head. My DH loves what ever we do when I do that.

It doesn't do it for me.

 

Here is my question for you looking at your fantasy person and the reality of you are in a relationship with can you make this work? Do you want it to work?

 

I want mine to work. My DH is a real man who protects me emotionally and loves me and would sacrifice for me. However, even if I tell him how to do a romantic jesture he can't and won't. I ask him why and he says he doesn't know how. He goes to the MC, she gives him a exercise, he doesn't do it.

Gucess what? I take that personally. Until I realize that if I put it on the agenda and make him do it. IT HURTS me horribly that he won't do one simple thing to make me feel good. I do lots of stuff for him.

 

I look at him sometimes and ask him what is he thinking, he says he isn't thinking of anything. I said well geeze DH, you look like your pissed your having your high pitched tone. Gucess what he isn't pissed, he is stressed at our kid and her friends. Geeze if he would of told me I could have roped him in and saved him problems.

 

I thought about your cruise. I think it was to much time alone when your so disconnected. I am still disconnected from my DH. I would trade one night at home with him that was relaxed and romantic then go on a cruise.

[RegardingMe]

BTW the last break from sex we had was from over six months. Last Feb, I just couldn't his perceived lack of interest in me and his lack of doing anything to help us. Truly I just quit. I do not belive I have ever been so angry in my life. I stopped trying to smooth things over and trying to fix things so he would be happy, not damange his self esteem. I was so friggin angry that slammed a gate so many times and so hard that I chipped a bone in my wrist and tore some tentents. I was literally so angry I wanted to beat the holy hockey sticks out of him or something.

 

That's what happens what you hold all the anger, resentment, rejection disregard for my feelings and lack of regard for not making me important.

 

It took me over a year and a bunch of Holy wars and finally one day things clicked inside what the problem was and we were able to talk it out and resolve a lot of issues. Now are main one is me and dealing with sex.

[Married_and_Lonely]

Here is my question for you looking at your fantasy person and the reality of you are in a relationship with can you make this work? Do you want it to work?

 

Yes, I want it to work. I don't need raw, lustful attraction, but apparently she wants to feel it from me. If she could go back to being that woman that I married that was full of life and admired me for my qualities, appreciated me for the sacrifices I make for her and the family , was proud of my accomplishments, respected me and my physical needs, and loved me, then I could be happy - even without the lust.

[RegardingMe]

Can you call this afternoon and get an appointment with a marriage counselor?

 

That could be the first step.

 

The second could be look, I need to be honest with you. I made an appointment to see a therapist for myself. I wasn't honest. Our marriage is on the line. I was looking at the divcorce web sites for me. I am so lonely and sad. I love you, but I feel like things are broken and I don't see you even caring. So I am going to fight to save the marriage. I can't do it by myself. Are you going to help or are you going to fight to save it.

 

I was wrong not to tell you how bad I feel about our relationship. I am not blaming you I am blaming both of us.

 

BTW I use to get bent at my DH, because I felt that when he went to work he got a break. I didn't kids 24/7 and I was angry.

 

I also gave my DH a task of writing a blessings book. He was so freaking ungrateful. I told him he needed to step it up and do it for his self. To look at what was good in his life. I did it as well. He got bent because sometimes it was the same thing every day.

 

Every once in awhile he stopped and I did remind him and he would start again.

 

I also think your angry. What are you angry about?

[Married_and_Lonely]

Can you call this afternoon and get an appointment with a marriage counselor?

 

That could be the first step.

 

The second could be look, I need to be honest with you. I made an appointment to see a therapist for myself. I wasn't honest. Our marriage is on the line.

 

I called the counseling service yesterday and asked to speak to someone that would give me a list of counselors, but they were all tied up and I said I'd call back today. But I don't think I can sincerely threaten to walk out the door without my kids. They are 2 and 5 and so much fun, and my whole world, and the best things in my life. I can't give them up!

 

BTW I use to get bent at my DH, because I felt that when he went to work he got a break. I didn't kids 24/7 and I was angry.

 

Yes, she has those feelings too, but I can understand how she'd feel that way and be a little jealous.

 

I also think your angry. What are you angry about?

 

I'm most angry about her lack of support regarding my health issues. I had one big issue that started a month after our almost 3 year old was born and resulted in a surgery a little over a year later. I took me about 3 painful months to recover from the surgery, during which time constantly reminded me how hard this period was for her (like I was having a parade) and that I'd better never get that surgery again (shucks!). Then just as I began to feel myself again and started exercising, doing push-ups, etc, I strained my abdomen last summer. It eventually got better by November, but then I re-hurt it in December helping her dad with 2 heavy TV's in his house despite me telling them I didn't think it was a good idea for me to do that. I'm still injured and despite ultrasounds, therapy, a CAT scan, and many $$'s spent, I'm no better today than I was in January. I'm going to restart physical therapy next week because I'm not going to give up on getting better.

 

I asked her, now 3 nights ago, if she resented me for my injuries and the strain its put on her (I can't lift heavy things like our kids, the trash, do yardwork), and she dodged the question just like she does with every other question. She just said, "I don't think it's ever going to get better." Gee, thanks so much for your optimistic support. So basically, yes, she's selfish and resents me for not being healthy these last few years. She thinks she shows her support by picking up my slack and doing more, like lifting our 2 year old into his booster seat for dinner and giving the kids baths when I'm unable (even though I try), but she's never said "I know you want to be healthy and I'm sorry you're going through this, but don't worry you'll get better eventually."

 

I told her mutliple times that I think I'm sometimes depressed because there have been moments when I've had 2-3 health issues at the same time and sometimes it feels like I'm getting kicked while I'm down, but she just frowns and says NOTHING! Is that what I have to look forward to when I'm old and grey - a wife that doesn't give a sh*t when I'm hurt and feeling down?! She just looks at me like I'm weak and usually tries to infer that I'm to blame for my injuries. That's what I'm angry about.