tell me it works out sometimes

[OWoman]

well , he will not leave his wife because he can keep a mistress without leaving his wife .

 

Some do leave.

[TaraMaiden]

OWoman, I really think that this is not that time.

 

I'm not saying this in any judgemental, critical or condemnatory way. Really, because that's neither constructive, not helpful.

But even though you had a wonderful experience, and everything went your way, the way things are panning out here, and now, seems to belie that ending for Rae.

The reason I don't believe things are ever going to change, is because it seems he has never declared his intentions for anything to be anything other than it is.

It seems he's never even laid hints about leaving his wife, separating, divorcing or admitting his love for you, and lack of love for her.

There have been no promises, no reassurances, no plans and not even any breadcrumbs.

Heck, she's as confused as we are.... there is no peace of mind or comfort for her. She is at a loss, and is finding it hard to make head or tail of what exactly is happening.

After a year of a very public and broadcast affair - I would think there was an awful lot more for her than this.

[torranceshipman]

If you think about it...a promise ring means nothing at all unless it comes with a promise, and that the person is showing that they are keeping that promise.

 

So can I ask what the promise that accompanies the ring is?

 

Or is there just the ring on its own?

[OWoman]

OWoman, I really think that this is not that time.

 

I'm not saying this in any judgemental, critical or condemnatory way. Really, because that's neither constructive, not helpful.

But even though you had a wonderful experience, and everything went your way, the way things are panning out here, and now, seems to belie that ending for Rae.

The reason I don't believe things are ever going to change, is because it seems he has never declared his intentions for anything to be anything other than it is.

It seems he's never even laid hints about leaving his wife, separating, divorcing or admitting his love for you, and lack of love for her.

There have been no promises, no reassurances, no plans and not even any breadcrumbs.

Heck, she's as confused as we are.... there is no peace of mind or comfort for her. She is at a loss, and is finding it hard to make head or tail of what exactly is happening.

After a year of a very public and broadcast affair - I would think there was an awful lot more for her than this.

 

IDK if it is or it isn't. As I've posted earlier - I'm keeping an open mind on this, in the absence of any more information. The OP has posted a single, rather skeletal outline. She doesn't say whether she's asked him to leave his W. She doesn't say, if she has, what his response was. He's given her a promise ring which she's interpreted as some kind of promise for the future (reading between the lines) - but whether that's based entirely on hope from her side, or some kind of undertaking / vague hint from his, who can say at this point?

 

If she hasn't already, Rae needs to ask her MM these things, and to consider his answers. If he knows she wants him to leave, and he's saying he can't / won't, then she knows where she stands. If he says he wants to, but acts vague about when or how, she's likely dealing with a conflict-avoiding type (which has its own risks and rewards...) and, if he says he will - and starts making concrete plans and acting on them, then she's in luck. But until she does, and if she has, until she decodes the response, she can't know what her chances are.

 

Not all MMs broadcast their intention to leave before they do so. I've had a few who - despite knowing that I didn't want them to do so - went ahead and left their Ws, anyway. With no warning. They hatched plans in the silence of their heads and then acted on them.

 

My H did not make promises to me about leaving until the point when he was in a position to do so, and knew for certain that this was what he needed to do (after IC) and that that was what I would want him to do. Rae's A has been less than a year - I've no idea how long her MM's M has been, but I don't think too many guys would chuck a M for someone they've only known (or, only known that intimately) for such a short time. Most people do not D lightly - they need to be sure why they are doing so. That he hasn't packed his bags yet to me doesn't signal a lack of intent ever to do so - merely that he's not one of those impetuous types who may act in haste and regret tomorrow what they did today.

 

This MIGHT work out for Rae. It might not. But I'm not going to join the cold water brigade on the basis of insufficient evidence, as I don't think that would be fair.

[whichwayisup]

Some do leave.

 

Yes, some do. But, those who do, don't keep the A going for years. Those who do, divorce as quickly and painlessly as possible. Those who do, don't lie and hide. Those who do, put a plan in action and DO what they say.

 

4-6 OW on here who have ended up with their MM, but let's not forget the hundreds of OW who have posted here and haven't ended up with their MM.

 

If it works out for Rae, it'll all depend on how honest her MM is, meaning, he will do what he says and not dick around, lie and continue to cheat. He will do all that is necessary to be with her, by doing it the right way.

 

For now, it honestly sounds like just an affair and most MM who cheat, want just that.. An affair.

[EyesOpened]

Oh puh-leeze....!

 

I hardly think either of them really give a flying phukk... if thery're having an open affair, with adulterous sexual intercourse on an habitual basis, and where so many people seem completely aware of it (bar the one person who should be!) then I really doubt very much whether either of them have ever given a thought to having their marriage blessed....

Like a religious factor is going to make a ha'p'orth of difference to her way of thinking!

 

Unfortunately, Rae, you're in the classic situation of him having both his cake and eating it.

A wife at home who is faithful, constant and apparently oblivious, and a willing fresh mistress who gives him the attention, love and flattery he requires. What more could he want?

Why on earth would he put himself through the emotional and financial upheaval of divorcing his wife, when everything is so cool exactly as it is?

"If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

 

He's got exactly what he wants - a cushy little number.

 

All you have to decide, is precisely what jennie-jennie came up with.

Is this good enough now?

Is this as you want it, now?

because, (and here's the thing people don't get...)

It's always going to be "Now"....

 

This will not change.

Because only you want that.

Not him.

So, that there's your only way to look at it.

 

Put up and shut up - or cut your losses and leave?

 

That is all it boils down to.

 

Tara - you just made me laugh - out loud while reading your post, because never more truer words have been spoken!! This man is a serious Cake Eater (as was my ex-MM) and you are exactly correct when you say that why would he leave when he has everything he wants...and more! A "Cushy Litlle Number" I LOVE IT. That's what I was!!! His cushy little number.

 

Rae, I absolutely know what you are thinking, he loves you, your relationship is different, if you stay eventually he will have to leave right? Or maybe his Wife will find out and break the marriage up for you. Which to be honest, I find it very difficult to believe that

he actually talks about you to her and she has no idea of your affair. She knows something is up, she's a woman, we KNOW when things are not quite right - call it intuition or whatever.

 

Bottom line, what Jennie and Tara are saying is 100% correct, you need to decide if this is good enough for you, what he is willing to give you - the small piece of him he provides when HE feels like providing it. While you wait patiently for the next crumb to fall. And as they both said, I agree and know from experience, that this will never change, once a cake eater, always a cake eater. It is YOU that needs to decide what you can handle. I used to say to my MM - "It's ok baby - even a little bit of you is better than nothing at all" BARF! Only 6 days post the big dump and I see how ridiculous that sounds and is! That is selling ourselves and our self worth short. We deserve more than those crumbs, and so do their wives for that matter!

[EyesOpened]

In the overwhelming majority of cases like yours, the MM will end up dumping the OW and staying with his wife. Not because he neccesarily cares more for his wife, but because staying with her is so much easier.

 

Think about it. Right now, your MM is getting the best of both worlds. He has the stability his marriage offers, plus you on the side. Why would he ever want to change that? If he felt pressed to change it, divorce would mean massive legal fees and possible financial ruin. The consequences of ending it with you would be almost zero.

 

In the end, which do you think he's more likely to pick?

 

Keep another thing in mind: a man who is capable of carrying on a secret affair is, by definition, pretty good at deception. Consider taht he may not be the most honest, trustworthy guy in the world.

 

I really don't know why people put themselves in these situations.

 

I couldn't agree with you more.

[EyesOpened]

But you forgot about the promise ring!!

Promise of what, I wonder? to not take a second mistress?

I'd find the promise ring somewhat insulting, but I'm post-A, and see things a little differently.

 

I didn't catch the promise ring part until I read your reply jthorne, I agree, I would be insulted by that as well.

[WalkInThePark]

I don't think there are general rules in these tricky situations.

 

One thing I have seen in at least two instances. There are BS who simply decide that they won't leave their H, even if he cheats. I think it is a kind of strategy which makes it very hard for the H to leave, especially if he is a guy who is devoted to his family. If a BS decides that she won't make any waves, won't rock the boat but will simply hang in there, she can make it damn difficult to leave! Her attitude is then: "I won't go anywhere. I stay because I was here first. Let's see what the expiry date is of this fling of yours." Their attitude is: if you want to leave me, go ahead.

It happened to my xMM. 4 years ago he fell head over heels in love with a woman and they decided to go and live together. They even rented an apartment. He told his W. She told him that whatever he could always come back to her. Eventually he could not do it. Being 200% happy in the M is one thing, leaving it a whole other thing.

 

My opinion? This kind of situation is like a war of attrition. If the MM has been married for a long time, his W knows exactly what buttons to push. She's been together for 20, 25, 30 years and she knows what to do or say or to not do or to not say to influence him. If on top of that there are kids and the guy cares about his kids, she knows that she has a huge advantage. Because leaving her means hurting the kids and he dreads that.

 

If you really love this guy, the trick is to find a balance between caring and being detached. Keep some activities of your own, definitely keep friends of your own. Don't put your life on hold.

[EnigmaXOXO]

My question is why won't he leave her?!? Is he waiting until she finds out and if so should I help her find out?

 

I’m sad for you that you had to come here in order to ask complete strangers what the intentions were behind a “promise ring” given to you by someone else. That after almost a year together, you’re relationship with this man still hasn’t reached the point where you are comfortable enough to ask HIM the very important questions that only he can answer for you.

 

That in itself should speak volumes to you with regard to where your relationship is at or any potential future you may have together… particularly since he has yet to even promise you a future in return or take any real steps towards one.

 

Even if you removed the fact that he was already married or in a committed relationship with another woman, I’d still caution you about “promising” yourself to a man who you’re not even comfortable enough to ask important questions of… particularly one who leaves you floundering for any real answers.

 

Not good. But I hope the ring is nice, and even if it’s all you end with, I encourage you to keep it as a reminder or “promise” to yourself that you will hold out for much better in the future.

 

Good Luck!

[jwi71]

He gave you a promise ring?

 

The ring is merely a golden shackle you willingly chain yourself with. Its purpose, as already stated, is to trap you. To fill you with false hope. Its a feint of an action meant to validate his lies. It has all the weight and force and impact that his wedding ring does...none.

 

Let me ask you this...WHY should he leave? He seemingly has it all.

 

I am confused...you said he talks to his W about you. Yet this is an A? The two don't make sense to me. This suggests you can knock on his door tonight and be welcomed in. Yes? Why don't you then?

[MizzBlue72]

It does work out sometimes. I know people do not like to hear this, but yeah - it does.

I have been dating soon to be divorced (STBD) married man (MM). They separate, he moved to my state.

I think it is important though that a person does not leave for the other woman / or man.

Usually there are a lot of other pieces in play prior to them leaving.

 

In our case, I was the last straw, or one of many pieces that fell into place.

 

We've been seeing each other for almost two years. I love him. He loves me. Will it work forever? We don't know. We are taking it slow. We never flaunted anything in front of his W (wife) or my H (husband). We both knew our marriages sucked.

[RaeRae30]

Thank you all so much for the replies! I wish I could have been back online sooner. He has definitely told me he wants to leave her and be with me. We talk about it all the time and that is why he gave me the ring. It's a promise that someday we will be together and that he loves me. I do ask him when he is going to leave and also why he won't leave now. He told me a couple months ago that he would like to leave in May and he is working on a plan. They have children together and have been married a long time. He wants to try to do it the best way he can. He is honest and tells me that he is still sleeping with her. The thought that they might actually have an open marriage has come to my mind more than a few times. I understand that this is a very hurtful situation to a lot of people, especially to his W. I have decided not to tell her, I think it would only hurt her more in the long run. I have never been in a relationship like this before or even known anyone in one so I have felt confused. It seems like if he wasn't going to leave he would keep it more private. He had a meeting with the president of our company and told him he loved me and that he wanted to be with me. So I guess that's why I just don't get it. What is he waiting for, I suppose I should just be patient. Sorry again for the long post and thank you all for your help!

[White Flower]

Is it she is tolerating his indiscretions as part of an open M? If so, can you handle that? This could mean she knows just as much about you as you do her.

[TaraMaiden]

Thank you all so much for the replies! I wish I could have been back online sooner. He has definitely told me he wants to leave her and be with me. We talk about it all the time and that is why he gave me the ring. It's a promise that someday we will be together and that he loves me. I do ask him when he is going to leave and also why he won't leave now. He told me a couple months ago that he would like to leave in May and he is working on a plan. They have children together and have been married a long time. He wants to try to do it the best way he can. He is honest and tells me that he is still sleeping with her. The thought that they might actually have an open marriage has come to my mind more than a few times. I understand that this is a very hurtful situation to a lot of people, especially to his W. I have decided not to tell her, I think it would only hurt her more in the long run. I have never been in a relationship like this before or even known anyone in one so I have felt confused. It seems like if he wasn't going to leave he would keep it more private. He had a meeting with the president of our company and told him he loved me and that he wanted to be with me. So I guess that's why I just don't get it. What is he waiting for, I suppose I should just be patient. Sorry again for the long post and thank you all for your help!

 

Ok, well obviously this puts a new angle on things, but don't be nose-hauled.

Ask him what his plan actually is.

Bide your time until May (difficult I know) but give yourself your own personal ultimatum, and promise yourself that while love is all well and good, it's not good to build it on shifting sands.

He needs to match actions to his words.

And - I'm sorry - but he needs to stop sleeping with her.

no, really, he does.

It's going to be an enormous shock to her if he's pegging her one night with wild abandon, then tells her the next day that it's over. Women associate the act of making love to their husband with being affectionate, close, intimate and loving. If he is set on severing ties in May, then he needs to be a lot more circumspect with his actions towards her.

Your deciding to not tell the wife, is all very well, and noble, but when he does it, the bottom's going to fall out of her world. especially if he's happily claiming his conjugal rights at the moment.

Unacceptable.

 

And it's grossly unfair to you.

I'd be outraged...

He really is getting it all ways.

I wouldn't blame you if you said to him "Well, whilst you're sleeping with her, don't crawl into my bed for the dessert."

 

No.

you need to tell him to man up and be more decisive.

How old are the kids, by the way?

[Pink_orchid]

He is still sleeping with her??!! That knowledge must be awful for you. And worringly it means he still must be attracted to her, and their relationship clearly hasn't died in his wife's eyes (nor indeed in his). People that are thinking of leaving their spouses surely aren't still that intimate?? Something is still keeping him there, probably that he has the best of both worlds! Aren't you just a little bit mad at that?! He's still sleeping with her!! And with you!! I'm afraid he's playing you. Stop the sex with him and pull right back until he leaves, if he ever does, or this could go on forever. Sorry for what you are going through, but it's really annoyed me that he is so blatently telling you he wants YOU yet he can have his wife any time he likes as well. And is. Party party! Let him dither about what he wants without you giving him everything sexually, why should he have both of you, you're worth more!!

[RaeRae30]

I actually have asked him to please stop sleeping with her on two occasions. It of course lead to a huge and very heated discussion both times. So I told him that I wouldn't sleep with him anymore and he said if that's what I felt I needed to do then that's what I should do. He wouldn't say he would stop with her though but he would still continue seeing me. At least he isn't lying and just telling me he isn't sleeping with her to make me happy. I think it makes perfect logical sense to cut off that part of a relationship if you're preparing to leave. That's what happened with my marriage. We fell out of love and didn't have sex for a long time before filing. I guess everyone is different. His kids range from 7 to 15.

It does make me angry, it does make me feel like a complete fool, but at the end of the day he is my best friend first and foremost. I am a recovering alcoholic and he has been there to support me the whole way and it has been a long and awful road. Thanks again for the responses. Good and bad I needed to hear these things.

[Got it]

Rae - I think you need to look at it from the perspective on what is best for you? Does this relationship make you happy with what you get today? Are you fullfilled? If so then it sounds like it is worth staying in.

 

His reasons for being married are his and you cannot predict what he is going to do. When he is ready to leave, he will leave. If not he will stay put.

 

I can tell you about my relationship. One of my dealbreakers was sex. We both were married when it started and one time had sex with our spouses and told the other person. At that point we decided that we would not continue doing that and would have exclusivity in that area. If it were to happen we needed to tell the other person.

 

One of my irritants was them sleeping in the same bed. I asked for that not to happen and was told it wasn't. I, of course, could not prove it beyond the any time of day phone calls, etc.

 

I did ask him for a game plan. How long before he could leave and what were the steps he was taking?

 

At the end of the deadline, from his discussions with her about divorce, a dday was triggered and he left shortly after.

 

I had a similar relationship as you. I saw him all the time. Without the dday and the events that happened tied to it I am not sure if he would have left then. I think also me walking away helped trigger his decision. He finally had to face life again without my presence in it.

 

But my story is only my own. What is right for you? My motto, when the bad outweighs the good, you leave. If you have hit the point where you need that piece (him leaving) and he doesn't then you need to move on. If it is working for you and you are fullfilled then reconcile that and enjoy the relationship.

 

Either way, best wishes to you.

[2sure]

I actually have asked him to please stop sleeping with her on two occasions. It of course lead to a huge and very heated discussion both times. So I told him that I wouldn't sleep with him anymore and he said if that's what I felt I needed to do then that's what I should do.

 

Its very very probable that his wife has asked him to stop sleeping with YOU on several occasions and it led to a "huge and very heated discussion" each time. She probably , like you, threatened to withhold sex. You can BET on both of these things.

 

He wouldn't say he would stop with her though but he would still continue seeing me. At least he isn't lying and just telling me he isn't sleeping with her to make me happy.

 

Since you say his wife pretty much knows about you because your relationship with her H is common knowledge and he has told YOU he will not stop having sex with his wife...he probably also is not lying to his wife just to keep her happy. She knows. She probably feels "at least he is being honest ".

I think it makes perfect logical sense to cut off that part of a relationship if you're preparing to leave.

He is PREPARING to leave?? I guess I missed that part...all I caught was that he SAID stuff.

 

It does make me angry, it does make me feel like a complete fool, but at the end of the day he is my best friend first and foremost.

 

His wife probably feels angry and foolish as well. Especially since she has children with him. But she also probably stays with him because he has been her best friend and they have been there for each other .

 

I am a recovering alcoholic and he has been there to support me the whole way and it has been a long and awful road.

 

Congrats on the hard road of becoming a recovered alcoholic.

 

But make no mistake - men like him are attracted to Vulnerable women because they are predators.

[califnan]

Rae,

 

The husband and wife have every right to sleep together.. They are married .. To covet someone's husband - under the guise of rescuing him, or great love - doesn't change the fact that their marriage is Recognized.. (and they have a family as well) .. Even if these situations look like an advantageous future, looks can be deceiving ..

[Brokenlady]

First, if he's fighting with you about having sex with his W, he obviously really wants to keep doing it. I don't know how you stomach that idea. But even not having sex doesn't mean anything - my ex-divorced man stopped having sex with his xwife way before he left her, and that didn't seem to have any effect on either of their desire to leave the marriage. INcidentally, his xwife knew about the affair for about a year before he left - the discovery of the affair also did nothing to hasten his exit.

 

I I am a recovering alcoholic and he has been there to support me the whole way and it has been a long and awful road.

 

Then you surely know the danger of what you're doing. You've made your married man (MM) your Higher Power. I promise you, nothing good is going to come from that. Think about it.

[TaraMaiden]

I actually have asked him to please stop sleeping with her on two occasions. It of course lead to a huge and very heated discussion both times.

There should be mno discussion. he should be saying: "You're right, what the hell am I thinking?"

So I told him that I wouldn't sleep with him anymore and he said if that's what I felt I needed to do then that's what I should do.

And have you followed through?

Are you having sex with him?

because if you still are, you are doing yourself a grave disservice, and showing him that you're a walk-over.... "Heh, she says it, but she don't mean it...I have sooooo got it made...!"

He wouldn't say he would stop with her though but he would still continue seeing me.

How very condescending and patronising of him. What a jerk. Does he not understand the concept of 'leaving wife in every which way'...? Obviously not.....

 

At least he isn't lying and just telling me he isn't sleeping with her to make me happy. I think it makes perfect logical sense to cut off that part of a relationship if you're preparing to leave.

So... that would tell you.... what?

There's a huge red-flag flappin' clue there...!

 

That's what happened with my marriage. We fell out of love and didn't have sex for a long time before filing. I guess everyone is different.

Nope. His separating from his wife means just that.

He is not separating from his wife. I think May will come and go with excuses and nothing more concrete....

 

His kids range from 7 to 15.

They will be the excuse he can't leave. I guaran-phukkin'-tee it...

It does make me angry, it does make me feel like a complete fool, but at the end of the day he is my best friend first and foremost

.

No, he isn't. you just think he is, because it makes you angry, and makes you feel like a complete fool.

Best friends don't do that to you.

I have a best friend, and no way would she abuse our good friendship by openly doing something that upset me or compromised our relationship.

Just as i never would to her.

 

I am a recovering alcoholic

congratulations and best wishes for continued success!

 

and he has been there to support me the whole way and it has been a long and awful road.

Would you go back to alcohol if he asked you to?

That would mean compromising your own well-being and happiness.

Why then, is he making this demand upon you?

This is outrageous...

 

Thanks again for the responses. Good and bad I needed to hear these things.

It's a great shame we're all saying them in the first place.

[Got it]

Well, I give him brownie points for being honest about being a cake eater. But he's not leaving the W. Nobody continues to be intimate with someone they plan to leave. Period. He may have thoughts in his head of leaving, but I guarantee there are no concrete actions being put into place. Telling the boss is not the same as telling a lawyer to file for divorce.

I agree, he's taking advantage of your vulerability as a recovering alcoholic (congratulations and best wishes in your recovery, btw). He probably thinks you will not feel that you have a right to expect or demand more or make an ultimatum and stick with it.

 

I disagree with this statement. There are many individuals who divorce, or separate, who have had sex up to that point. Many people will continue "maintenance" sex. I had sex with my spouse about a month before we separated. But if it is an issue for Rae then she needs to state it. If he tells her is going to continue having sex with his spouse than she either accepts it or moves on.

[whichwayisup]

He has definitely told me he wants to leave her and be with me. We talk about it all the time and that is why he gave me the ring. It's a promise that someday we will be together and that he loves me. I do ask him when he is going to leave and also why he won't leave now.

 

Wanting and doing are two separate things. Seems he's selling you broken promises and you're believing every word he tells you.

 

I know your heart and emotions can't wrap your head around the fact he more than likely is leading you on... He will do and say anything to keep you IN the affair, give you 'just' enough hope to hang on and 'wait for the future..' problem is, you two have no future as he isn't going to leave and divorce his wife.

 

Sadly, you are going to waste alot of love and energy on this guy waiting years for him to divorce...

 

How long do you intend on waiting for him?

[whichwayisup]

He is still having sex with her, that's not a man who's about to divorce her.

 

MOST people who have one foot out the door and truly are ready to divorce don't have intimacy with their spouses. They detach and make plans.

 

Deep down I think you know the truth but your feelings are totally clouding your judgement, not allowing you to see reality of your situation.

 

He loves having two women meeting his needs and as long as you are there for him, the status quo remains.