A Ticking Timebomb...

[mikeymad]

Sorry to have more than 1 thread going, but I thought this might be something that might sidetrack a little bit, so I thought i would get some opinions. So we all know that the WAS has a ready list of trangressions you had, things you did to make things easier on themselves. When they say these things it can really mess with your mind or make you question yourself.

 

For example, my W, on our court date, reavealed to me that she thought i was emotionally and verbally abusive, and that she had convinced herself that meant I was one step below physical abuse per her therapist, which was why she was staying away from me. Since I know the physical part has never crossed my mind, I blew off the entire thing as a comment made to either justify her position, or to try and hurt me.

 

Here I am 3 weeks later, and that little comment she made has been sitting in my brain, like a ticking timebomb waiting to go off....and it did the past few days.

 

I've been wondering what she meant by those comments, so I decided to do some research on the subject, and WOW. It seems as if everything that a person does can be construed as abuse. Love someone too much....abuse. Love someone too little....abuse. If they ask you to change and you don't, you can be a liar and a narcissist. Buy them gifts and beg to get them back, it's only a trick. Telling them you've had revalations about yourself, don't believe them, they will manipulate you.

 

I don't feel like I was really that bad, but apparently all abusers deny it themselves (thus a catch 22). Now it makes me wonder how ANY relationship can be normal or free of this stuff. I don't want to be sitting and analyzing everything I did or another person does, but alot of it can fall into those categories if you put it in the right light, which helps because it's vague IMHO. Now because of what she said along with a lot of this stuff, I feel like I was a bad guy based on these definitions.

 

I felt like we were spending too much time with her family (she works with her parents and still wanted to hang out with family on the weekends) - her limited friends she had she never seemed to want to get together with, so we mostly hung out with my social circle, or alone together. abuse take = that equals "isolating her from her friends/family"

 

I wanted to help her with her eating/exercise habits to help her with some health issues, but she wouldn't listen to me. abuse take = me trying to change her

 

Me wanting to explore the sexual side of our relationship as a way of growing more comfortable with each other. She wanted vanilla more than not. abuse take = me objectifying her sexually

 

Me not working while full time at grad school and starting a business, thus not having an income while she bought a house and saddled us with a mortgage. abuse take = me taking advantage of her money, financial abuse.

 

I can go on and on, but she has really done a mindf*ck on me. I am doubting myself as a good person and now not trusting myself in this, or any other relationship. I'm trying to sort this all out in my head. I'm sure there'll be more, but it's late, and my brain is fried from all this self analysis.

 

I posted this before, but this is a little comedy about how women know exactly how to plant that comment in guys' brains...and why they are mental terrorists (sorry ladies, I know you're not all like this, but it's in good fun)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z468B8vV6XU

 

it's NSFW in case you're wondering. naughty language.

Edited March 26, 2010 by mikeymad

[Gunny376]

First of all you got to grasp a few things? This type of thing has been going on since the beginning of time between men and women.

 

The trouble with speaking a woman whose in "walk mode" is your need as a man to make sense. Women don't have that problem.

 

When a woman is leaving you? Never, and I mean never try and start up a conversation about it with her she's going to do a mind freak on you and seriously trip you up.

 

Then your going to sit around with a bad case of "Paralysis by over-analysis!"

 

Google some clips by Richard Pryor, Chris Rock, and Sam Kinison. Chris is especially dead on, as his Sindbad when it comes to men trying to comprehend, deal with women and why they do and act the way they do.

 

Chris Rock, (You can sometimes catch him on the Comedy Channel) speaks about the very thing that you are on this thread. (With some women ~ but it you PTO enough? Potentially anyone of them?)

 

He speaks of if your never around enough ~ "I hate this s***! You're always working or hanging out with your boys, or playing those stupid video games!"

 

But if you do the opposite? "I hate this s***! Get up off of me! Get away from me! Go find something to do, haven't you got some work you need to do? Go hang out with your 'boys' Give me some space! Let me breath!"

 

If she makes more money than you? "I hate this s***! You ain't nothing buy a sorry broke @zz mother trucker! Why don't you go find yourself a real job, and make some real money!"

 

But if you make more money than her? "I hate this s***! You ain't my Daddy! You can't tell me where I can go, what I can do, who I can do it with! You can't tell me what I can and can't buy!"

 

You get the idea.

 

Take this and add in a pinch of 2010 "doublespeak" AND a dash of being politically correct? And you can turn things around and into anything you want to?

 

Hitler's propaganda minister said if you tell a lie often enough? It becomes the accepted truth?

 

What is mental and emotional abuse? Its relative. What's mental and emotional abuse to one? Isn't to another. Using harsh language toward your GF/or wife? In nothing more than a casual conversation between say? Marines, Navy Seals, Soldiers?

 

Where I work? We get to sit around and watch cable TV, football, etc. And DVD's.

 

I was watching "Sons of Our Fathers" when he came in one afternoon and said, "You watching a movie?"

 

To which I said, "If you'll be quite I am." (Sidebar I'm all but deaf in my left ear ~ artillery ears from .........................)

 

He got so PO'd at me? He wouldn't speak to me for six to nine months? Had I been still in the Marines? And he a Marine? I would have told him to shut the ____________up! I'm trying to watch a 'freaking' movie!

 

So communication is all relevant.

 

The same qualities that my XHEX listed? My last LTR GF loved. I've since have had other GF's tell me that my XHEX was crazy for leaving me? I've had GF's tell me, "Where have you been all of my life?"

 

You need to understand that women are going to constantly 'test' you to see if your the real deal, or the whinny, pleading, needy little boy that's just trying to get her into bed with you ~ like all of the others she's ever came across.

 

If you ask women what is the No.# 1 thing they find attractive in men? Its confidence.

 

Yet a lot of men stand around and wonder? WTF is that suppose to mean?

 

It means you've got enough confidence that if it doesn't kick with her? There are plenty of other women in the world, that in fact the world is covered up with them. There's no shortage of women (nor men ~ actually women have a tougher time of it! Women can get all the quantity they can handle. Its the quality that's hard for them to come by! )

 

I like you and so many others here took a torpedo in the bow, and a bomb down my smoke stack when I went through a divorce. Then I retired and got back out here in civilian la~la land?

 

Went from being a hero to a zero in three nanoseconds flat. It took me a long time to reconcile that I was so far ahead of the game ~ that I thought I was behind.

 

And I was? But I'm worse than some? But better than most!

 

Bachelors know women better than married men!

 

If they didn't?

 

They be married to!

 

If you really sat down and thought about it Mike?

 

You never really had a problem finding a GF once you put your mind to it?

 

You've just got a bad case of "one-ittis" in thinking that this one gal is the one and only and the best that you can do?

 

And that's nothing but 'stinkin-thinkin'

 

Read the e-book, "Secrets of The AlphaMale" by Carlos Xuma. He's a PUA, but the book is about regaining your center, your self-respect, self confidence, getting a code to live by, redefining. He cannot teach you his PUA stuff until you have that foundation.

 

The nasty truth of the matter is? A lot of men marry because they really suck at meeting and getting a GF! The reason the "bad-boys" are so good at getting women? Is they've master the skill set necessary to do so. And it can be learned, and it can be taught.

 

It cannot be learned and taught overnight. After reading the above? Read, "The Game"

 

Its not about manipulation? Its about being positive, being self confident, entertaining, fun, exciting, seductive, suave.

 

Its about how to handle the b!tch tests that every woman is going to throw you way!

 

Sean Conray is 77 years old! Do you know how may women want him?

 

He's got the stuff!

[tojaz]

Sorry Mikey, dont have time to write a proper reply right now, but I will say that I had the exact same situation in mine. Same words and all. If you dig through my threads there was a lot of good advice given. I read al the books etc and had myself convinced that ME = DEVIL! Dont fall into that trap man, rewriting history, gaslighting, crazy making. Call it what you like, but trust your own memories. Own whats truly yours but leave the rest regardless of what she says. Just does more damage.

TOJAZ

[MizzBella]

Hi there,

 

I am sorry you're going through this. Don't overanalyze what she's said - likely she is just trying to justify her actions.

 

But of course you can improve on communication skills anytime - and discuss such topics with your gf in the future should you choose to date seriously again.

 

My ex-H still tries to justify his behavior to me to make himself feel better. It is just pathetic really, and I have learned to dismiss it. I got the, "you never met my needs" and "you stole my money" crap constantly. He still thinks that because I walked away with 50% of the assets that I stole "his" money even though he was the one cheating and I made the same amount of money he did. haha! These people are just selfish and try to justify that anyway they can.

[phineas]

Same here.

My STBXW was cheating shortly after the first yr of marriage.

almost 3 yrs.

 

Said it was my fault.

Said I ignored her.

 

Claimed she didn't leave because she thought i'd take her children away. (yeah as if the courts would let that happen)

 

Claimed she was afraid i'd hurt her. (I never raised a hand to her ever.)

 

She still tells me it's my fault she cheated.

Still deny's when she met OM & that she met him online dateing (I know what I saw on her computer)

 

My thoughts are "whatever" then I just agree with her so I can get her out of my site ASAP.

[mikeymad]

Sorry Mikey, dont have time to write a proper reply right now, but I will say that I had the exact same situation in mine. Same words and all. If you dig through my threads there was a lot of good advice given. I read al the books etc and had myself convinced that ME = DEVIL! Dont fall into that trap man, rewriting history, gaslighting, crazy making. Call it what you like, but trust your own memories. Own whats truly yours but leave the rest regardless of what she says. Just does more damage.

TOJAZ

 

Yes Tojaz, I have read through almost all your threads, and I'm trying to comprehend and internalize what was said. What were the books that you read?

 

I do understand a lot of what we do or say can be considered abuse. Although I did nothing on the physical aspect or out of anger, I can see how I tended to criticize a little bit too much and tried to get her to change into what I thought would be better, instead of leading by example and letting her choose to follow my lead. I know I could've complimented her more, but on some level she's got to be comfortable with who I am. Not that I'm not willing to try to do those things that communicate to her that I love, respect, support and adore her, but she has to be able to compromise too. Is that too much to ask, or is not being over backwards for someone else abusive too?

 

For her it was my decision to leave against her wishes (she had no plan if I stayed, just that we would "figure something out and be ok") that "broke her faith in marriage, that somebody doesn't just go do that". She fails to see that I knew I would be gone 6 months but would be back and she says she "warned me" that we weren't strong enough to handle this. Wtf. Way to self fulfill that prophesy. I guess my pea brain didn't think that "we aren't strong enough" meant that if I left = divorce.

 

I would love to defend myself against those accusations, but again, that's what an abuser does. I would also agree that I had some of those behaviors at some times, but that is also an admission of an abuser. Nice Catch 22.

 

And yes, I now realize that her saying all these things and committing the EA/PA/whatever was also abusive. But will she acknowledge that, not right now. She is now saying that she is "standing up for herself", but instead of coming to a 50/50, she's gone 100% the other way. I also sense a level of immaturity about the situation, because of the way she wants to get out of this AND get everything back and then some. Claiming to want "back pay" for money spent from when we were together. I mean as soon as I had decided I needed to make this career move, everything changed from "ours" to hers and mine. Her house, her money etc etc.

 

I can't take blame for the EA, but I I can take the blame for helping to create the conditions pre-EA that made her more susceptible to it.

[carhill]

OP, think of it this way. Absent substantive proof in a court of law, who cares? It's just carbon dioxide out of a carcass which no longer is of interest. Anyone who would accept such one-sided drivel is not a person you want to waste your carbon dioxide on anyway. Let her yell abuse from the rooftops. Laugh at the comical display. She'll eat the rewards of that perspective alone or with like-minded people. Be happy you are rid of them; all of them. Freedom

[mikeymad]

I guess like tojaz mentioned in his other threads, it makes you question yourself, and if it is there and I am either becoming aware or unaware of it, taking it back into a relationship, whether recon with W or future one is something I don't want to do. A good friend on here Floridapad reminded me to remember the pain of what going through a D entails and what you have to do to grown and learn from it, because you never want to go through that or have that feeling again.

 

I guess that's why talking to a guy who is on his 3rd D just has a look like, ah crap here we go again, while us "1st timers" are ****ting bricks. What a sad state to be in when divorce doesn't even phase you.

 

PS per my 1st post, W said that because of the abuse is the only reason she's going to counseling, and said "You should make it a point to go, because it helped me with my guilt and shame, and I'm sure counseling would help you." Then when I told her I had been going she said "for how long" I said since we separated. Of course, instead of that being a positive, she chose to say "that doesn't sound like you, you usually don't stick with something like that very long." Ouch.

Edited March 26, 2010 by mikeymad

[curiou]

what a great response by carhill. and i agree: it's mostly psychobabble. In her mental formulations, you probably ARE abusive. I'm sure she believes it. Who cares what one woman, maybe her friends and family, says about you? I mean, really. YOu know the truth. If you have issues, work on them for YOURSELF, not to get her back.

[mikeymad]

what a great response by carhill. and i agree: it's mostly psychobabble. In her mental formulations, you probably ARE abusive. I'm sure she believes it. Who cares what one woman, maybe her friends and family, says about you? I mean, really. YOu know the truth. If you have issues, work on them for YOURSELF, not to get her back.

 

Well for starters, I care what she says and what she thinks... because I started this thread. I guess what she says still matters to me, and I know in that aspect I'm making myself vulnerable to both the good and the bad, the highs and lows, the pain and the pleasure. Step 1 would be to not care, but I'm not there yet. And no offense, but one woman, her friends and family are a lot of people, especially ones that I know. I would rather they know the truth than a lie.

[GorillaTheater]

Well for starters, I care what she says and what she thinks... because I started this thread. I guess what she says still matters to me, and I know in that aspect I'm making myself vulnerable to both the good and the bad, the highs and lows, the pain and the pleasure. Step 1 would be to not care, but I'm not there yet. And no offense, but one woman, her friends and family are a lot of people, especially ones that I know. I would rather they know the truth than a lie.

 

You're right about that first step: you need to detach. But it's a process, not an event.

 

I'd also suggest that it's a question of control. You want to be able to control what your W and these various other people think about you. And, you simply can't. Let go of that which you can't control. If you can, you'll be amazed at how liberated you feel, like a huge weight's been taken off your shoulders. And don't allow yourself to be controlled by the thoughts of others.

 

Sure, take some time to reflect on yourself. This is the time to do it. But if you come to the conclusion that you were not and are not an abusive person, then let it go.

[onedayatatyme]

This female behavior is familiar to me too. Early in our relationship I dismissed such nonsense. Of course that is abuse too. Abuse take = you're not meeting my emotional needs. I believe that MC reinforces the mind f***ing because we are trained in councelling to believe that it takes two to screw up a marriage. This attitude is productive however it doesn't really stand up to the logic test. I'm getting pretty tired of hearing "the marriage was broken before the A and you need to figure out what you did to fail to meet her needs".

 

I think it's bs. Would anybody ever tell a victim of physical abuse that she must have failed to meet his needs or he wouldn't have beat her? It's the same logical progression. It leads us to take responsibilty for things that aren't our fault. In my experience, my stbx has pushed the envelope continuously and accused me of ever more heinous behavior. Now she's telling family and friends that I'm physically and verbally abusive to our kids. It's getting scary. Good thing is thes accusations are brand new and anybody with a brain is going to wonder why she's just speeking up now after she got busted in an affair and is going for divorce.

[spriggig]

I fell into this trap for a while and I wasn't even pushed. As I picked over the carcass of my dead marriage, I became more and more convinced that I had abused my wife by neglecting her needs. To get out of the trap I jumped into I had to take a broader perspective and include everything I had done to support her too, every time I did try to rebuild the connection. I realized I was just normal--ignorant but normal.

 

I was focusing on what I did wrong--"something went wrong, what did I do wrong?" And in the trap I went.

[onedayatatyme]

I fell into this trap for a while and I wasn't even pushed. As I picked over the carcass of my dead marriage, I became more and more convinced that I had abused my wife by neglecting her needs. To get out of the trap I jumped into I had to take a broader perspective and include everything I had done to support her too, every time I did try to rebuild the connection. I realized I was just normal--ignorant but normal.

 

I was focusing on what I did wrong--"something went wrong, what did I do wrong?" And in the trap I went.

 

Amen. Maybe we need to start a thread of affirmation proclaiming everything we did RIGHT in our relationships.

[Gunny376]

I fell into this trap for a while and I wasn't even pushed. As I picked over the carcass of my dead marriage, I became more and more convinced that I had abused my wife by neglecting her needs. To get out of the trap I jumped into I had to take a broader perspective and include everything I had done to support her too, every time I did try to rebuild the connection. I realized I was just normal--ignorant but normal.

 

I was focusing on what I did wrong--"something went wrong, what did I do wrong?" And in the trap I went.

 

Surprise I didn't see you as we fell down that Rabbit hole!

[spriggig]

Surprise I didn't see you as we fell down that Rabbit hole!

 

I was the rabbit.

[dgiirl]

Abuse can sometimes be a tricky topic.

 

When I separated from my exh, he had me convinced everything was my fault. He had laid down the foundation to blaming me for everything years before and nothing I ever did could be good enough for him. I was suffering through depression, very unhappy, constantly (unnecessary and unfounded) worrying I'd lose my job, and I hated my self image and had thoughts of suicide. I knew _something_ was wrong with me, but I had no clue what it was. I had serious thoughts that I was going crazy.

 

On top of that, I would have bad days at work, and he would constantly play devils advocate and take the other person's side (his belief of "helping me grow" as a person). He wanted to spend every single weekend at his parents (and he worked on saturday mornings) which meant very little alone time, two to three nights a week at the gym, and every other night playing computer games. We both had different sleeping times as I went to bed early and he'd go to bed late, so we lost the affection in the bedroom too. He showed no interest in the things I wanted to do and showed very little affection towards me. And every time I asked for something, I demanded too much from him.

 

When he left, it was out of the blue. He came home on valentines day, 10pm after spending the whole day at his parents, and said he wanted a divorce. He then proceeded to tell me that all I did was take and take from him and all he did was give and give, that I was an cruel hurtful person and I hurt people without even realizing it. And that if I didn't change, karma would get to me. All of this simply traumatized me. I was already in deep depression before him leaving, and for him to say this was like he was trying to kill me. When I asked him why, of all days, did he leave me on valentines day, his response was "I didn't realize it was valentines day". He had me and everyone else convinced I was the problem. For months, I took on self blame.

 

Then one day, my mom said what he did to me sounds like abuse. My first reaction was to defend him and say no, but the words resonated in my head and I kept asking myself "Did he abuse me?". I reflected on it for months and years. It would be so simple to say he's abusive and the marriage dissolved because of him, but it's not entirely one sided.

 

Some of the things he did to me throughout the marriage was very abusive. Like when we were going through a luke-warm spell in our sex life, I wanted to boost my self confidence a little and make his 30th birthday special, so I bought some lingerie to spike things up. This was the very first time I had ever worn the stuff. After dressing up and showing him, we had sex, but then right after, he said I was selfish for buying myself something for his birthday and that I never think about what he would want. Or the other numerous times, after having sex, he would flip me onto my stomach and take inventory of all the cellulite developing across my body and tell me it will never go away. I was in my early twenties, very skinny and beautiful, and here he is telling me I was fat and nothing will ever take away cellulite. These comments were destroying my self confidence and on the surface, if they were just isolated events, might not be construed as abuse, but when there were numerous events and I left the situation having my self confidence even more shattered than it was before the encounter, it's abuse. Having said that, I am sure if you spoke to him, he'd have a completely different perspective on the situation. He probably never realized that what he said was THAT hurtful and I'm sure he never intended it.

 

And I know the reverse could be true. I'm sure he felt my loss of interest in sex was very abusive to him. That me constantly turning him down and according to him, having a disgusted look on my face every time he touched me, was abuse. And I definitely did not intend to make him feel horrible.

 

I guess abuse is how the person's self worth is affected before and after the encounter. If the person leaves the situation feeling worse about themselves, then the situation could be construed as abusive.

 

In my current relationship, I try to be a lot more in tune with what is going on. When I leave an argument with my boyfriend, I have yet to feel badly about myself. We try very hard to communicate and we are both understanding and forgiving and we give the other the benefit of the doubt. We also try to watch our words and make sure it's always a positive and always let the other person walk away with dignity. I have a harder time with this because it use to be habit for me to jokingly say "jerk", but I catch myself quickly and apologize right away. I also tell him that's not what I want to say and don't allow me to say that.

 

Is there SOME truth to your ex's accusations? Maybe. You've even acknowledged that you can sometimes be very critical. These are the things you can improve on and be better at in your relationships. Now that you realize it, there is no excuse for continuing the bad behavior, and you don't need her to do something for you in return. This is about your self improvement and self-respect. However, that doesn't mean you are completely and utterly abusive in every way. Pick out the truth from those statements, and you will know deep down inside what are true, what you need to work on, and what you are willing to change. The rest, leave them behind.

Edited March 27, 2010 by dgiirl

[tojaz]

Yes Tojaz, I have read through almost all your threads, and I'm trying to comprehend and internalize what was said. What were the books that you read?

 

I read "The verbally abusive relationship" by Patricia Evans and "Compelled to Control" by J. Keith Miller The thing about those books though is that you have to keep a wide perspective. Taken in small doses everyone can be seen as controlling or abusive when put in the right light. Everyone has moments like that. The difference is that true abuse includes the intent to inflict harm for your own gain.

 

Tojaz

[You Go Girl]

The abuse test is pretty easy, really.

Were you controlling? Threatening? Manipulating? Insulting in order to decrease her self-esteem?

It's not controlling to want half of the decision making process.

It's not manipulating to try to change someone's opinion.

It's not insulting to point out errors that a person is in denial of.

 

But the reverse--controlling just to have control, to own another person, manipulating in order to control again--thoughts, make them insecure and unsure of themselves, belittle and debase their self-esteem. You know the answer in your heart.

Others will have opinions of you no matter what you say or do, no matter even what another says about you. They still will sense your nature, and some will believe exaggerations or lies, and others will pretend to agree or disagree silently. Each person has their own opinion of you that can only be swayed to a minimal extent by others.

In otherwords--don't worry about it, because you'll never know if they thought you were a schmuck to begin with or not, you'll never know what anybody thinks of you entirely, not even your best soul mate spouse possible in the world.

Just go forth with doing your best, giving everything your all, following the golden rule, have a clear conscience, etc. That's all you can do!

--Give me the strength to change the things I can, to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference--live by that, Mike, and you'll find peace.

[LisaUk]

The abuse test is pretty easy, really.

Were you controlling? Threatening? Manipulating? Insulting in order to decrease her self-esteem?

It's not controlling to want half of the decision making process.

It's not manipulating to try to change someone's opinion.

It's not insulting to point out errors that a person is in denial of.

 

But the reverse--controlling just to have control, to own another person, manipulating in order to control again--thoughts, make them insecure and unsure of themselves, belittle and debase their self-esteem. You know the answer in your heart.

Others will have opinions of you no matter what you say or do, no matter even what another says about you. They still will sense your nature, and some will believe exaggerations or lies, and others will pretend to agree or disagree silently. Each person has their own opinion of you that can only be swayed to a minimal extent by others.

In otherwords--don't worry about it, because you'll never know if they thought you were a schmuck to begin with or not, you'll never know what anybody thinks of you entirely, not even your best soul mate spouse possible in the world.

Just go forth with doing your best, giving everything your all, following the golden rule, have a clear conscience, etc. That's all you can do!

--Give me the strength to change the things I can, to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference--live by that, Mike, and you'll find peace.

 

You have no idea how much your post has just helped me Yougogirl, I have spent over a year convinced that my wanting a share in the decision making process, wanting my ex to take on board my feelings and opinions on matters was what he called controlling. Now I see it isn't. Thank you.

[spriggig]

You have no idea how much your post has just helped me Yougogirl, I have spent over a year convinced that my wanting a share in the decision making process, wanting my ex to take on board my feelings and opinions on matters was what he called controlling. Now I see it isn't. Thank you.

 

LisaUK, I and a lot of people on this board have been worried about you--even more than have posted in your thread. I hope this is a real breakthrough for you. Good luck.

[tnttim]

Mikey ask a woman what she wants in a man and you'll a generalized answer, funny, smart, confident, strong, successful. So you think, I can emulate all those and be a chick magnent right. You do that and still come up empty, and then you say "I must be ugly or something." But you really are just missing the big picture.

 

Women run on emotions and feelings. That's why your W explains at ends why you were abusive, because she feels abused. Now when she looks back and remembers when you bought her flowers and candy out of the blue she equates that to abuse, because sheis in the abused state of mind currently. If she was feeling great and appreciated and then thought of the same exact event she would feel loved and appreciated. Do you get what I'm saying? Men have a tendency to want the exact meaning of something, and you can't put feelings into words. You sometimes think like a women and don't realize it, here's an example.

 

Think of when you guys met, and the feelings you had. Do you feel the same way when you think of that day, or now does that thought cause pain? Haven't a lot of the good memories with your W turned bad now?

 

Congratulations you are thinking like woman, now multiply that by a 1,000 and imagine living like that every waking moment of your life.

 

She feels abused right now because you are the source of her pain. She can't explain her feelings, but she knows you are the one it seems to start with. Every time she feels abused she thinks of you, every time she see's you she feels abused by your every word. It's a viscious circle, and your caught in the center trying to explain it.

 

How do you get out of quicksand? You make slow deliberate moves to reach the top. If you do nothing you sink, if you thrash you sink.

 

Focus on yourself, you've been told this 1000's of times, yet your posts are all her, her, her.

 

Where's your confidence, strength, courage, and charisma?

[tojaz]

The abuse test is pretty easy, really.

Were you controlling? Threatening? Manipulating? Insulting in order to decrease her self-esteem?

It's not controlling to want half of the decision making process.

It's not manipulating to try to change someone's opinion.

It's not insulting to point out errors that a person is in denial of.

 

But the reverse--controlling just to have control, to own another person, manipulating in order to control again--thoughts, make them insecure and unsure of themselves, belittle and debase their self-esteem. You know the answer in your heart.

Others will have opinions of you no matter what you say or do, no matter even what another says about you. They still will sense your nature, and some will believe exaggerations or lies, and others will pretend to agree or disagree silently. Each person has their own opinion of you that can only be swayed to a minimal extent by others.

In otherwords--don't worry about it, because you'll never know if they thought you were a schmuck to begin with or not, you'll never know what anybody thinks of you entirely, not even your best soul mate spouse possible in the world.

Just go forth with doing your best, giving everything your all, following the golden rule, have a clear conscience, etc. That's all you can do!

--Give me the strength to change the things I can, to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference--live by that, Mike, and you'll find peace.

 

Thank you for that post. You Go Girl, that has to be the most honest description of emotional abuse I have heard. In most of the posts and websites etc. on the subject it seems that every one is described as an abuser for anything they do. Its very easy for those that hear thos accusations to believe them too! Especialy when they hear it from someone they love.

 

You have no idea how much your post has just helped me Yougogirl, I have spent over a year convinced that my wanting a share in the decision making process, wanting my ex to take on board my feelings and opinions on matters was what he called controlling. Now I see it isn't. Thank you.

 

Funny I remember a good looking guy typing that to you over and over and over. Guess it was because he was American.:laugh: Good for you!!!

TOJAZ

[mikeymad]

No, I don't feel like I did all of that to intentionally hurt or control her, so yes YGG that post helps quite a bit. There is also the pain of knowing that the way I do things is that she does see it that way right now. And I think what I did is often times I would not realize how what I was doing was affecting her, so Tnttim has some pretty valid points as well. I have noticed the few things I have done that could be construed at abusive (when they do happen), but there are others that are just asinine and I will not accept as my own.

 

Side note: Her brother, who is a colleague of mine and a friend is meeting with me next week. He knows I'm having a rough time with this. I know the fact that he's meeting with me won't be kept from her (he told me he "doesn't keep secrets from his sister", which sounds like battle lines are drawn in the sand) as well as probably the content of our conversation, because his W and mine talk quite a bit. Therefore I'm wary as to how much information I should divulge, knowing it will get back to her, or how much I can count on his confidence. On the other side, having this information come from a 3rd party might be to my advantage as it isn't already discredited coming straight out of my mouth. Of all her family, he is the most level headed about these things. However, speculation includes him being the spearhead for anything that needs to get communicated to me. I guess I have to be prepared either way.

Advice?

Edited March 30, 2010 by mikeymad

[tojaz]

No, I don't feel like I did all of that to intentionally hurt or control her, so yes YGG that post helps quite a bit. There is also the pain of knowing that the way I do things is that she does see it that way right now. And I think what I did is often times I would not realize how what I was doing was affecting her, so Tnttim has some pretty valid points as well. I have noticed the few things I have done that could be construed at abusive (when they do happen), but there are others that are just asinine and I will not accept as my own.

Its good that you can see some of these realizations Mikey, and you are exactly right. Own whats yours but leave the rest.

 

 

Side note: Her brother, who is a colleague of mine and a friend is meeting with me next week. He knows I'm having a rough time with this. I know the fact that he's meeting with me won't be kept from her (he told me he "doesn't keep secrets from his sister", which sounds like battle lines are drawn in the sand) as well as probably the content of our conversation, because his W and mine talk quite a bit. Therefore I'm wary as to how much information I should divulge, knowing it will get back to her, or how much I can count on his confidence. On the other side, having this information come from a 3rd party might be to my advantage as it isn't already discredited coming straight out of my mouth. Of all her family, he is the most level headed about these things. However, speculation includes him being the spearhead for anything that needs to get communicated to me. I guess I have to be prepared either way.

Advice?

 

Well Mikey, keep in mind that while he is your friend and your colleague, hes her brother. Make no mistake, his allegiance will lie with her. I would do just as you said, talk to him with the assumption that anything you say will get back to her. With any hope your friendship will allow him to give you some help along the way, but I would not count on it from my experience.

 

TOJAZ