A Ticking Timebomb...

[mimidarlin]

It's an awkward position for both of you. What is the point of this meeting? Is it based on business or is to talk about the relationship meltdown? Are you wanting him to give an honest assessment of your behavior?

 

There is only mutual friend with whom I share my emotions about this divorce. We were two couples that spent so much time together it was ridiculous. Our split shocked them. I talk to the wife because I need female emotional support. She has been through a divorce before so it helps. However, I am careful to not disrespect him. It's more about how hard it is for me. Over sharing might put her in a bad position.

 

I will say that my STBX family has been super supportive. Inviting me to things...calling me. I think they hope that this won't really happen. Of course he is their family so if I backed them into a corner they would support him. I'm not doing that though.

[mikeymad]

It's an awkward position for both of you. What is the point of this meeting? Is it based on business or is to talk about the relationship meltdown? Are you wanting him to give an honest assessment of your behavior?

 

There is only mutual friend with whom I share my emotions about this divorce. We were two couples that spent so much time together it was ridiculous. Our split shocked them. I talk to the wife because I need female emotional support. She has been through a divorce before so it helps. However, I am careful to not disrespect him. It's more about how hard it is for me. Over sharing might put her in a bad position.

 

I will say that my STBX family has been super supportive. Inviting me to things...calling me. I think they hope that this won't really happen. Of course he is their family so if I backed them into a corner they would support him. I'm not doing that though.

 

I think it is to talk about how I am doing, and probably what is transpiring. I have to be careful not to be too nosy or push my agenda too hard, because he is a friend, but he is also her brother.

 

Yes it is awkward. Not only that, but my college roommate and one of my best friends is married to her sister, so I've essentially lost two people that could give me a heads up into the situation. Her family has cut all ties with me, which is difficult as they were a big part of my life.

 

I guess it would be nice to have someone in "my corner" that could talk to her. I don't plan on saying anything about her, but I might put out some feelers to see what exactly she is saying to everyone else, (if these abuse allegations are spread beyond her/her therapist...which I'm assuming so since she's sleeping at her parent's to avoid me) so I can defend myself if need be. I think if I can communicate positive things about what I have been doing at least that will get passed along from a third party with some clout.

 

Not getting my hopes up though.

Edited March 31, 2010 by mikeymad

[mikeymad]

Well I got the final D paperwork in the mail today, and my heart has about hit the floor.

 

I was hoping it would be a cruel cruel april fool's joke. It's not.

Ugh.

[carhill]

I hope you won't take this wrong but I wish my stbx was that efficient. My sympathies. Now, with the legal stuff done (I presume this was the judgment with seal from the court), you can heal and slowly forget about all the pain of recent events. New chapter of life

[mikeymad]

No, it was the draft of the final that her lawyer drew up for me to sign to make it official.

[carhill]

Oh, settlement agreement, right. Yeah, hopefully I'll get that in the next couple weeks. Get her done. You going to court or do they offer judgment by mail in your jurisdiction? Court usually gets the seal quicker.

[mikeymad]

Wow. Not only is she trying to control how this D goes, but now she's trying to control who i talk to.

 

I was set to have coffee with her brother tomorrow, who is also a colleage and friend, but he cancelled and said he had to wait "until things get settled" before he meets with me, per her request. I asked him what the reason was, and he said it didn't make sense, but he was honoring what she asked him. Stupid. Which means I can't talk to him until the D is final.

 

I am two seconds away from showing up after she gets off work to confront her about what the hell is going on. This whole situation makes absolutely no sense, and it's absolutely laughable how she's bailing over things that can so easily be worked on and overcome. I'm tired of having no contact, and everything being talked about through lawyers only. We're friggin adults for God sakes. We invested 5 years of our lives together. Give me the common goddamn decency of speaking to my face.

 

Sometimes you have to bring the mountain to Mohammed.

[carhill]

Sorry to hear that OP. Generally, families stick together like SuperGlue during these things. It's nothing personal. You're an outsider now. It doesn't matter that you're a decent, mature, respectable man. There are lots of those people in the world, none of whom matter to her family. You're one of them now.

 

Once you accept the reality, you'll feel a whole new life dynamic take over. Having a good lawyer to handle the business stuff (the business of divorce) helps in that process. Looks like you're almost there. No worries. It'll all work out

[tnttim]

They will never relinquish the control they have over you, no matter how minute. Your problem is that you keep letting it get to you and she can see that. They teach my 9 year old in school to just ignore the bully and do not show emotion towards their attempts to control you.

 

Be indifferent next time, who fcking cares about her brother, and his lack of testicles to do what he wants, instead of what he's told.

 

The easiest way to win a game is not participate

 

PS- The power struggle will continue with her until you stop letting her play games with you

[mikeymad]

I know I'm still invested in this, and I know she has power over me. My therapist told me the same thing. That I've taken it upon myself the total demise of this relationship. I'm putting her on a pedestal. I guess I'm still convincing myself that a)there is something worth saving, and b) with enough time, persistance, and love I can achieve the seemingly impossible.

[You Go Girl]

You have no idea how much your post has just helped me Yougogirl, I have spent over a year convinced that my wanting a share in the decision making process, wanting my ex to take on board my feelings and opinions on matters was what he called controlling. Now I see it isn't. Thank you.

 

Lisa--

I haven't read your threads, I'll take a look when I see them, but it doesn't matter that I haven't read your threads.

Because...

anybody who tries to convince you that having half the say in the decision making process is a controlling act--THEY'RE THE ONE with the control issue. Clear as day.

If I help anybody, wow, that feels terrific.

Thanks

[You Go Girl]

I know I'm still invested in this, and I know she has power over me. My therapist told me the same thing. That I've taken it upon myself the total demise of this relationship. I'm putting her on a pedestal. I guess I'm still convincing myself that a)there is something worth saving, and b) with enough time, persistance, and love I can achieve the seemingly impossible.

 

Mike-

I know the struggle of fighting for something that you believe is worth fighting for.

For me, it's been an honest relationship.

I lost.

5 years of struggling to get my H to be honest.

As much as he said he loves me, honesty will never be part of that equation. Guess he just decides on his own when and whether honesty is part of love.

doesn't mesh with my definition of love, dishonesty.

So sometimes you can fight the good fight, doesn't mean you won't lose.

So I'll be the one who is walking, because it's stalemate, he won't accept honesty as part of the deal, I won't accept secrecy.

NOTHING in my life has caused me such utter despair as finding out that the person I love doesn't believe they have to be honest with me.

You don't want to be living in that hell for 5 years...believing you are still fighting the good fight. It destroys you. You destroy yourself trying to fight for something all by yourself.

 

There comes a day when you have to save yourself. On that day, you start practicing detachment. That's emotional detachment. It's how you save your own life.

How do you do that? Purposefully, aware of exactly what you are doing. You practice detachment. Everytime you feel cruddy, depressed, and find yourself thinking of how that other person affects you, you refocus elsewhere, on yourself, on a future without them. It's a completely conscience act in the beginning until it becomes natural and a habit.

 

As for her brother--don't worry about getting your message across to him. You could put your heart on the table, and at the end of the day, even if he believes as you believe, he has an obligation to stand by his sister's side. He may even decide that she's a complete idiot over the entire thing. Still won't change where his loyalty MUST lay.

 

Now--on the abuse issue--first, thanks topaz.

Secondly Mike, you have to remember that shrinks want to get paid. They'll do just about anything to keep people coming back. And quite honestly--I believe they do their patients a disservice as often as they do them good. They do them harm too...

Ever hear of a shrink really putting the guns to a patient to grow up and see the light of day? Hell no, because the patient would quit coming back if the shrink criticized more than tiny little bits to chew.

We don't know what goes on in those meetings. For all we know, the shrink misread her stories of what happened, and the shrink put the idea of abuse in her head.

Do you realize how brainwashing that could be to her if it's the shrink that impressed that upon her?

And then there's the other possibility---anybody who wants out of a relationship will distort it enough to make it safely to freedom, and later deal with the truth. Later, she may stop the abuse accusations, and quietly admit to herself that they never happened.

I know. When I wanted out of my first marriage, I distorted the truth to myself. It didn't include abuse accusations, but I did admit over time that I blew out of proportion some of my criticisms of him. Later I admitted to myself they weren't that big of a deal. Later I also got to the bottom of what was the big deals, the true deal breakers.

Denial, distortion, people do these things to give themselves the out they want. And when a person gets it stuck in their head that the answer is TO GET OUT, for you to break through that tunnel vision to the part of them that loves you would take begging on your knees, and even then, it could just end up as humiliation.

I know. My first H would publicly criticize me in front of friends and family. He didn't realize the mistake he was making, the resentment building in me. He honestly didn't see that...because he knew I was such a strong personality, he thought I could take it, and it was his way of fighting with me, he didn't have enough nerve to fight with me when we were alone. He was afraid of my strong personality.

I feel badly now looking back, bad that we never sat down and talked it over between the two of us, bad that he didn't feel safe enough when with me alone.

I also know that when I wanted OUT, I consciously said to myself--the only way he's going to get me back is to get on his knees and show me he truly loves me.

He didn't lol

I am not suggesting that you get on your knees! Just telling my story, and trying to make it clear to you just how difficult it could ever be to break through her determination and tunnel vision at this point--she has it in her head she wants out, and damn if you can do anything about that.

In the next few years, she may decide she made a mistake and wants you back.

But Mike--that day may or may not ever come. You still have to live for YOU.

YOU can't die waiting for her....

[mark982]

mikey, i'd write your stbx's brother off. while i can see family sticking together, no matter right or wrong, there's always going to be alittle bit of unease if you try to keep things on a friendly level. plus i'd have a hard time being friends with someone with so little gumption (or balls) to stand up to their sister.

[tnttim]

I know I'm still invested in this, and I know she has power over me. My therapist told me the same thing. That I've taken it upon myself the total demise of this relationship. I'm putting her on a pedestal. I guess I'm still convincing myself that a)there is something worth saving, and b) with enough time, persistance, and love I can achieve the seemingly impossible.

 

A) Yes I agree it's worth saving

 

B)Time, persistence, and love happen when you are in a relationship, sorry but you are not in one with W.

 

I'll keep telling you til I'm blue in the face. WAKE UP!!!!!!!! You are separated from your W, she doesn't have the same feelings she did before.

 

You have to approach this with a single man's mind. Does a single man care about just one women? NO. Does a single man secretly keep ties with her brother just to get some inside info? NO. Does a single man use pity to get the girl? HELL NO.

 

Your W gave you a gift to change your life, and your pissed at the wrapping paper. Get over it and appreciate the time and motivation she is giving you. You can be the old Mikey again, just give him a chance to shine, wake him up, tell him he's on in 5 minutes.

 

I was told at 17 yrs old that there are 2 kinds of people in this world. The cans and the cannots. The cans are approached with a problem and they think of all the things they can do with their set of circumstances. The cannots think of all the things they cannot do with their set of circumstances. Which one are you right now.

 

Your attitude alone will get your girl back, I firmly believe that. I saw the second my attitude changed, my W's preception of me changed. She said it best herself after we got back together

 

"I was weak, you were strong."

 

Google "alpha male"

[onedayatatyme]

I know I'm still invested in this, and I know she has power over me. My therapist told me the same thing. That I've taken it upon myself the total demise of this relationship. I'm putting her on a pedestal. I guess I'm still convincing myself that a)there is something worth saving, and b) with enough time, persistance, and love I can achieve the seemingly impossible.

 

I went through exactly this for quite a while. Eventually you will have to get to the point where you realize that everything is not your fault. At least half of it is hers. Try to understand that you are not helping the situation by taking more than your fair share of responsibility. The next step for me was to stop acting like a doormat. In my case, when I stopped acting like a doormat, she pulled away even further and got more combative. That was proof to me that I was fighting a losing battle. Kissing butt didn't work and expecting basic respect didn't work. She was gone and it wasn't my responsibility.

[mikeymad]

A) Yes I agree it's worth saving

B)Time, persistence, and love happen when you are in a relationship, sorry but you are not in one with W.

Your attitude alone will get your girl back, I firmly believe that. I saw the second my attitude changed, my W's preception of me changed. She said it best herself after we got back together

I understand what you are trying to get across. I have changed. I just don't know how to show it to her. You had that chance to show the alpha male because you had contact with her. I, right now, do not, as we are still in the middle of a D. I know time, persistance, and love happen within a R, but it also helps to CREATE a relationship. I don't want what we had, I am focusing on building something new and different from what we had. I

 

I went through exactly this for quite a while. Eventually you will have to get to the point where you realize that everything is not your fault. At least half of it is hers. Try to understand that you are not helping the situation by taking more than your fair share of responsibility. The next step for me was to stop acting like a doormat. In my case, when I stopped acting like a doormat, she pulled away even further and got more combative. That was proof to me that I was fighting a losing battle. Kissing butt didn't work and expecting basic respect didn't work. She was gone and it wasn't my responsibility.

 

I'm not taking all the blame on myself. Her mental terror tactics have me going through a great deal of guilt over what happened, but I know she had her part. I don't think she's owning it though, from what I knew back then, her only fault was "giving too much and not standing up for herself earlier". It's almost as if this D is her act of defiance and self reliability. If she came back to you, what would you do?

 

Mike-

I know the struggle of fighting for something that you believe is worth fighting for.

 

So sometimes you can fight the good fight, doesn't mean you won't lose.

 

You don't want to be living in that hell for 5 years...believing you are still fighting the good fight. It destroys you. You destroy yourself trying to fight for something all by yourself.

 

There comes a day when you have to save yourself. On that day, you start practicing detachment. That's emotional detachment. It's how you save your own life.

 

I also know that when I wanted OUT, I consciously said to myself--the only way he's going to get me back is to get on his knees and show me he truly loves me.

He didn't lol

I am not suggesting that you get on your knees! Just telling my story, and trying to make it clear to you just how difficult it could ever be to break through her determination and tunnel vision at this point--she has it in her head she wants out, and damn if you can do anything about that.

In the next few years, she may decide she made a mistake and wants you back.

But Mike--that day may or may not ever come. You still have to live for YOU.

YOU can't die waiting for her....

 

YGG- first, I want to say that you have helped a lot of people here, and I amongst others want to thank you for your input.

 

I do feel like I'm dying keeping fighting for this, but I'm torn between the selfish act of focusing on myself (which seems to be the default answer here) and not giving up hope. Some call it tenacity, some call it stupidity. Probably a little of both. But then again no great feat was ever accomplished by those who unwilling to stick it out when things were seemingly at their worst.

 

I have been on my knees, but it was as she drove away the day she said she wanted a divorce and left me in a cloud of exhaust and a puddle of tears. I know begging and pleading won't get me anywhere, as the emails, letters, calls etc have seemingly had no effect as well.

 

Which is why I feel I have to put myself in front of her and at least confront this. I'm tired of the having to go through the lawyers. The emails and text messages that have been our mode of communication for the past 3 months. And here I am wondering if she in fact feels bad about what is happening, feeling doubt, but being too proud to do anything about it. I guess I have humbled myself enough to the point where I'm not afraid to go to her. It feels as if I don't try these things, I have wasted opportunities to make improvements. On the other hand, I could be destroying opportunities by doing this as well.

Edited April 7, 2010 by mikeymad

[onedayatatyme]

I'm not taking all the blame on myself. Her mental terror tactics have me going through a great deal of guilt over what happened, but I know she had her part. I don't think she's owning it though, from what I knew back then, her only fault was "giving too much and not standing up for herself earlier". It's almost as if this D is her act of defiance and self reliability. If she came back to you, what would you do?

 

 

You might be exactly right that she didn't stand up for herself, built up alot of anger and resentment and has now exploded. Maybe you could have been more understanding. But damnit, she had a responsibility to communicate with you. It's not your fault she buried it so long.

 

Eventually my marriage counselor gave me some frank advice when it was clear that my wife was not invested in the marriage. He simply said, "It might be time for you to start detaching." He said it at a time when I was ready to hear it. I was ready to accept that there wasn't anything more or different I could do to change what was going on in my wife's head.

 

On that day I started to shift my mentality from "I must fix this situation whatever it takes" to "I am going to do what's fair for both my wife and I. I'm going to stand up for myself while being reasonable with her." You are going to have to define what's reasonable and fair for yourself. Don't let her do it for you any longer.

 

I started telling my wife that I was still invested in the marriage, I was here to make it work but that I deserved and would accept nothing less than basic respect. I let her know that the cursing and yelling wasn't acceptable. I let her know that putting the blame on me was manipulative and skewed the facts. Eventually she filed for divorce. Now I am past the point of no return. If she came back today and wanted to drop the divorce proceedings, I would still divorce her. I would tell her that she doesn't deserve me and that if she really wants me back she would have to fight for me, after the divorce, to prove to me that she deserves to be in my life. Next time, if there is a next time, she will have to bend over backward for me. The only thing I would promise her is to keep an open mind. I don't think there will be a next time and I'm perfectly OK with that. I'm looking forward to putting this pain behind me and starting the next chapter in my life.

 

That is where you need to be, my friend.

[onedayatatyme]

I do feel like I'm dying keeping fighting for this, but I'm torn between the selfish act of focusing on myself (which seems to be the default answer here) and not giving up hope. Some call it tenacity, some call it stupidity.

 

There is a middle ground between these two. I was torn just like you. You don't want to give up but that doesn't mean you have to become selfish. How about standing up for the truth? Plain and simple. She is telling her version of the truth and I bet you are accomodating it in an attempt to appease her. That is not helping your marriage. It makes you look like a worm and it's dishonest. Your version of the truth is just as valid as hers. Start standing up for it. It doesn't have to be in a confrontational way. You can start gently demanding respect like she should have done for herself since the beginning of your marriage. How much better would things have been if she had gently demanded repsect from you? Much better right? It would not have been selfish of her, it would have been right.

 

Start standing up for yourself, not in an attempt to "get yours", but in an effort to keep things real and honest.

[tnttim]

I understand what you are trying to get across. I have changed. I just don't know how to show it to her. You had that chance to show the alpha male because you had contact with her. I, right now, do not, as we are still in the middle of a D. I know time, persistance, and love happen within a R, but it also helps to CREATE a relationship. I don't want what we had, I am focusing on building something new and different from what we had. I

You know as well as I do that you not honoring the NC, that's why losing her brother as a friend ended up on this board.

 

There is no we anymore, it's just you trying to hold onto we. That's the difference between me and you, I let her go for real. I was going to be happy with or without her. I didn't care what she did. Mikey I had to be in the same house with this women knowing she was fcking another man. But I never let it bother me enough to show her I cared. That's the difference, I was indifferent to her actions. I did my thing and she did hers. Is that the only reason she came back? Hell no. I'll never know the reason, and I still don't care to know the reason why. Knowing why accomplishes nothing. It's all about the what, what are you going to do. I covered all my bases and it made me feel more confident about my future. So in my mind I had a solution to any of my problems.

 

You'll figure out what you need to do, you just have to learn to stop considering a life with her as a possibility, and open up your options for a life without her. Then she comes back to you because that my friend is the only way a recon will ever work. She is the one with commitment problems.

[onedayatatyme]

You'll figure out what you need to do, you just have to learn to stop considering a life with her as a possibility, and open up your options for a life without her. Then she comes back to you because that my friend is the only way a recon will ever work. She is the one with commitment problems.

 

Yep, Mikey, you absolutely have to figure out how to move on and be happy without her. Accept that there is nothing you can do to force her to come back. You have to accept this in order to let go of any expectation of reconciliation. It might happen but more than likely at this point it won't. And you need to believe it isn't going to happen.

 

FOR REAL, MAN!!! Once you are truly OK in your head and heart that you might not ever get this woman back you will focus your attention on what's next for Mikey. I know it's scary. You have no choice. You have no control over your wife.

 

Believe Tim that this is the only possible way you might get her back. But do not do it too get her back. You truly have to let her go not only in your actions but in your heart. Give up on her. She might find her way back to you. If not, you will be farther ahead in your healing process.

 

Here's a tip that worked for me. Take her off the pedestal. Everytime you look at her and think about how sexy she looks, change your thoughts to someone else that you find physically attractive. Everytime you think about everything she's done for you and how great she is, remind yourself of all the crap she's put you through that you'll be glad to get rid of. IOW, realize and think about the fact that this is not the only woman for you. It's a big world out there. This woman has rejected you. It's not your fault and there is nothing to be done except getting yourself ready to find a woman who will appreciate you.

[mikeymad]

ODAAT-

I'm not trying to force her to come back. I guess in a way I'm trying to find a way to present where I'm at, cut through all the bull****, and make her face this head on instead of hiding behind a lawyer, email, and hiding out at her parents house. I don't know what it is, but it's like I'm never satisfied with my attempts to make things right...most likely because the fail, so I look the the next best thing. At what point do you say enough is enough? When is it time to stop trying? I've heard of people who after they D, they keep trying for years and eventually reunite because of their faith that they would restore their marriage. I guess giving up would mean that I would be stooping to the equivalent of her giving up on me, and I want to be better than that.

 

I realize that I might not ever get her back, and that's the scary part. I don't want to say this woman was my world, but I had plans, goals, dreams, a future planned with her. Sure it was a short marriage, but it was a long time in the making, and we had a really rough start. I'm sure, had certain decisions not been made things could very well be different. That kills me.

[onedayatatyme]

Mikey,

 

I understand and sympathize. But she is gone. There is nothing left but to accept that. At what point do you give up indeed? Do you spend years pining for this woman who has no interest in you?

 

Maybe you could look at it this way... You must realize by now that whatever you've been trying isn't working. Right? Trying your hardest has only pushed her farther away. At the same time it's making you more and more miserable and ill in the head and heart. Not only can you not force her to come back, you cannot even gently nudge her.

 

From all appearances, she is gone in every sense of the word. You being constantly available to her is incredibly unnatractive. You need to change tactics. But again, let me restate that you are not changing tactics in order to win her back. Detach so that you can feel OK for yourself. Let go of these feelings of responsibility to make this work. She has abandoned her marriage vows to you and cheated on you, right? She left the marriage behind, not you.

 

It's OK to do what you need to do for Mikey. Whatever happens between the two of you will happen naturally and the best chance you have is to really and truly not give a crap what happens. I know that's a catch 22. But there is truth to the saying that you must let her go to get her back. The good news is that once you let her go, you won't care if you get her back. Look past the fear of loss to the possibilities of a fresh start.

[mikeymad]

ODAAT-

I've read your posts (and actually commented on them somewhat...who was that guy?) and in the short span of a month, or seemingly past christmas, you have gotten to where you are, seemingly ok with how things are progressing. I see a lot of what is happening with me happen with you. So what finally clicked with you, or how did you get to this point of acceptance?

It's like I know it's probably better for me, but like my therapist said, I push boundaries. I think, nah, I don't have to give up, those rules don't apply to me, and potentially create a larger problem. And yes, denial isn't just a river in egypt. I still think I can fix this with enough effort.

 

On the otherhand, I've been miserable for over a year trying to change, to fix things with her, and she has ignored it all and taken the stance that she in no way was going to try. She was going to sit and observe from the outside. Hell, I don't even know who I am anymore or what it's like to be happy. Maybe I'm holding onto the pain, because it reminds me I'm alive. I just don't know anymore.

Edited April 7, 2010 by mikeymad

[You Go Girl]

I held out for 5 years Mikey--

some of us are just more stubborn, more determined.

Doesn't mean we'll win the war.

All in all--determination and perseverence are good strong personality traits.

Just maybe not when we keep losing.

 

Ah, it's Spring. Go ask a nice girl out to dinner.

Should you and the w ever get back together? You can confess to the dinner if you so choose.

No reason to stop living in the meantime.

[Nomad1]

Mikeymad, it is not my intention to trivialise what you say you are feeling. It is real for you and therefore it is. I think that for most people, the struggle is between the emotional state and the intellect. Given time, people are able to think outside the emotions, including anger. I use the metaphor of 'levers in your head'. At one point you will select the right lever to shift from the emotional to the intellectual matter of factness that will enable you to move on. But realise this, it will happen. You will jump when you are ready and you will feel so liberated from the emotional labour. Keep on keeping on!

 

Nomad1